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Can anyone help? What am I missing? I'm seriously lost on this one.
Do you think most people vote for a party or against the other?
It's a tribal thing. I supported Chelsea in the 70s - same thing, no facts would sway me.
Apparently, this is according to someone on my family whatsapp group, there’s nobody else to vote for. Never discuss politics with your family.
If you can’t grasp the ability of people to do stupid things which are entirely against their own self interest then your life must be one of constant surprises.
I fear that the truest answer to your question will be “because Dominic told Boris to tell them to do it”
Some just seem ok with being mugged off
Because not everyone has the same political views and unfortunately the Tories are the main stream option if you are conservative (small c) in your politics. Under normal circumstances they are just as valid a choice as any other main stream party, they are painted as evil by people who don't like their policies.
Why anyone would vote for the current version of the Tory party though is beyond me, they have nothing to do policy and everything to do with racism, populism, personal advancement and naked power grabbing. This is not politics as normal, hopefully Sterner will bring thing back to normal by highlighting how awful the Tories currently are. Don't forget Labour are coming back out of their own very dark period, there were many, many people who legitimately asked who would vote for Corbyns version of the Labour party?
To get brexit done
And piss lefties off
So we can all end up with matching haircuts, matching clothes and one state controlled media outlet.
Life will be so much better when no one has to think for themselves
To follow the american dream (of abject poverty for the 99%)
For lots of reasons most normal people can't currently fathom, but 6 months ago, because they were just a little bit racist.
Maybe more than a little bit.
As someone thats voted left his whole life but grew up in a tory house hold (despite being very working class) i will never understand it. I don't understand how anyone could look at the last Labour manifesto and say it was full of bad ideas. Personally I think its because they are selfish and don't care about helping others or want to pay less tax, but im sure its more complex than that.
The question i would rather ask Tories is do they feel like they are getting what they voted for.
Because they attract large numbers of votes from people who can engage in debate without resorting to verbal abuse or name calling or spreading lies about people who have a different point of view.
E.g. I’ve just had this from a mate - completely false news but cheerfully spread by an army of activists who are quite happy to deliberately mislead:
++++
Nicked this from a friend .......it appears that Cummings' trip was a BUSINESS trip that also involved his sister who LIVES at the house he 'allegedly' isolated his family .....Now for some of the main course...defend this and you are a sucker for a sob-story - spewed by a conman..... nite-nite......
I think we can all appreciate a father doing what he thinks is best for his son during this pandemic. It's been a tough time for everyone.
But, in the case of a top government official making a mercy dash of almost 300 miles during Lockdown 'rules'... there appears to be some strange coincidences with other events.
For instance, GlaxoSmithKline, who have been fined millions of pounds in the UK for bribing companies not to make generic copies of their out of patent drugs, so preventing any competition and allowing them to sell their products highly priced to the NHS, operate from a base in the North-East.
That operating/manufacturing base just happens to be...Bernard Castle in County Durham!
Dominic Cummings readily admits he took a drive out to Bernard Castle on April 12, because his eyes were feeling a bit odd and wanted to test them.
Two days later, GlaxoSmithKline signed off an an agreement with the Government to develop and manufacture a Covid-19 vaccine with Sanoffi of France.
COINCIDENCE?
Mr Cummings' sister Alice is based at the family home where the government aide thought best to isolate himself, wife and child.
On April 14, Alice Cummings was appointed a Director of Idox plc which shortly afterwards was awarded contracts to supply PPE and other equipment to the National Health.
COINCIDENCE?
Because they attract large numbers of votes from people who can engage in debate without resorting to verbal abuse or name calling or spreading lies about people who have a different point of view.
E.g. I’ve just had this from a mate – completely false news but cheerfully spread by an army of activists who are quite happy to deliberately mislead:
His kid is autistic.
Which puts a rather different slant on the ability to palm off a nipper at short notice to the neighbours.
pot kettle
Because they attract large numbers of votes from people who can engage in debate without resorting to verbal abuse or name calling or spreading lies about people who have a different point of view.
Bahahahahahahahaha. Aye, right.
Because they attract large numbers of votes from people who can engage in debate without resorting to verbal abuse or name calling or spreading lies about people who have a different point of view.
This.
Because they attract large numbers of votes from people who can engage in debate without resorting to verbal abuse or name calling or spreading lies about people who have a different point of view.
People who don't resort to lies choose to vote for people who are proven liars?
Maybe people remember things like the gulf war, the winter of discontent?
As a country we are ****ed. There's no centre line.
Anyone who wishes to be a politician should automatically be barred from being one.
I'm not Tory nor am I Labour.
However this kit of brexit banging imbreds are possibly the worst I've seen. Though I dread the thought of corban being in the driving seat instead
because they are ****s
The question i would rather ask Tories is do they feel like they are getting what they voted for.
I think this is the nub of the topic. I'm more left leaning than many of my peers and thus I can see that the last election was won on a string of wild promises from a party that had undergone a huge change in the 3 years since Brexit.
The "genius" of it is that the party that spent almost a decade disenfranchising half the population than managed to seduce a good chunk of disenfranchised voters...
More over this was not a top-down strategy, it is the direct result of a "fringe group" managing to change the narrative around a niche topic into a war on "elites" and every subsequent national vote became all about overturning the "establishment" until they managed to get their own puppets in power. The turning point happened almost half a decade ago, and people have short memories.
People voted tory because the messages they received were plainly worded, multifaceted and tended to focus on the things voters were against so eventually they score a hit with lots of people:
"Don't like foreigners? Neither do we!"
"Don't like corbyn? Neither do we!"
"Don't like dole scum? Neither do we!"
Etc, etc...
People who voted tory don't really believe the party had changed their spots, but they heard a promise or two in amongst all the others that they wouldn't mind coming to pass and so thought they'd give Boris a go.
I hate to say it but I can see why the message that Corbyn was unelectable stuck with so many. But Starmer is a very different kettle of fish, and he's been gifted an excellent start, a seemingly callous government in increasing disarray, during a major public health crisis...
We'll see what he makes of it, the next election is still a long way off, probably on the far side of a global recession.
Selfish
Dimwitted
Gullible
Years of propaganda from the majority of the media helps
Is it because they are self-centred, uncaring, phuk you, I'm alright bastards?
The tories have now manipulated the economy in such a way, with wage stagnation and the housing bubble, that even professional people (the middle classes) especially young professionals who would once have voted for a better future. Are living month to month, struggling to keep afloat and living from one pay check to the next, unable to vote for long term policies because they believe any tax rises will sink them now.
Tory voters seem to be people who readily acknowledge problems in society but are too scared to vote for the change that is needed to address this.
The other parties do seem to present alternatives that would deliver change.
But the Tories seed the fear, presenting the alternatives as dangerous radicals who would damage the (often fragile) standing of voters. They literally aim to Conserve the status quo, selling this as opportunity to the masses (but in reality simply keeping Rees Mogg and co rich).
In short, the policies needed to effect worthwhile change are easily portrayed as dangerous.
because they are ****
This sums it up in truth.
Lol at the above, i'd say the same about those that voted Labour last time around for Corbyn and McDonnell's retarded keynesian economics.
Starmer's Labour is more something I could vote for.
I'm one of Thatcher's Children. Born 1969, when I was 10 my dad left the RAF after 22 years and had to find a job to keep a roof over our heads at the time of her rise to power. Winter of discontent etc a big part of my early childhood
Took a while, but he did, and we had a secure and happy life while other communities were pulled apart. I was brought up believing that working hard for your family was the right way. I started work in 87, knuckled down, worked hard, saved hard, did well for myself, all through my 20s and the Tory years.
So plenty of people have done well in the Tory way, and don't understand or have any experience of why other people would not. *
By 97 I could see the damage Tory policies were doing to wider areas of society outside my previous experience, and it was the first time I hadn't voted Tory. Never have since.
*And I'll add that some people seem to have a disconnect between their vote and it's consequences. Pre-Covid, my parents could not see that the failure of the NHS to provide cancer treatment to a friend within the target times might be connected to them voting for yet another round of Tory austerity, despite hearing first hand accounts of cuts to public services from me and MrsMC.
I always quite liked the pie analogy. The pie in this case being national wealth.
The left focus on dividing the pie up as fairly as possible.
The right focus on making the pie as big as possible.
Neither is right (or wrong) and both sides have policies that are self-consistent but fail if taken too far.
I didn't vote for this lot, but I find the name calling (on both sides) tedious. People who hold a different political point of view to you are not evil. Yes there are idiots, racists, anti-Semites etc on both sides, but most voters for the main parties are sensible people who are voting for what they think is best.
Some people think the Tories handle the economy better than Labour. Oh and then there's low taxation! But more recently it's the Brexit, refugee, foreigner thing.
Tory voters seem to be people who readily acknowledge problems in society but are too scared to vote for the change that is needed to address this.
But the Tories seed the fear, presenting the alternatives as dangerous radicals who would damage the (often fragile) standing of voters
This is well put - fear of the alternative rather than belief in the Tory way.
Lol at the above
Entirely your position to take. Fortunately, I remember the poll tax effects and more currently, the laughing stock this government has become.
You vote and I vote and we get what we get. Fortunately for me, it seems independence is becoming increasingly more likely.
Maybe people remember things like the gulf war, the winter of discontent?
Eh? Both of those occurred under Tory governments.
The question i would rather ask Tories is do they feel like they are getting what they voted for.
There are probably people in countries around the world who used to belong to a certain empire and probably some people in countries that are in "union" with what was the epicentre of that empire, who are now looking at the behaviour of the leadership of that country and thinking "It's taken a few decades, but finally the English are beginning to understand what it is like to be ruled by the English".
Why did people vote Tory at the last election? I’ve absolutely no idea...
I’m one of Thatcher’s Children. Born 1969, when I was 10 my dad left the RAF after 22 years and had to find a job to keep a roof over our heads at the time of her rise to power. Winter of discontent etc a big part of my early childhood
Took a while, but he did, and we had a secure and happy life while other communities were pulled apart. I was brought up believing that working hard for your family was the right way. I started work in 87, knuckled down, worked hard, saved hard, did well for myself, all through my 20s and the Tory years.
So plenty of people have done well in the Tory way, and don’t understand or have any experience of why other people would not. *
By 97 I could see the damage Tory policies were doing to wider areas of society outside my previous experience, and it was the first time I hadn’t voted Tory. Never have since.
*And I’ll add that some people seem to have a disconnect between their vote and it’s consequences. Pre-Covid, my parents could not see that the failure of the NHS to provide cancer treatment to a friend within the target times might be connected to them voting for yet another round of Tory austerity, despite hearing first hand accounts of cuts to public services from me and MrsMC.
👍🏼 good points
*Head above parapet*
Some of us will vote for literally anyone who has half a chance of denying the SNP a seat, Tory, Lib dem, Labour, Monster Raving Loonies, anyone. If the Tories are the only opposition to the SNP in my constituency they get my vote.
Why did people vote Tory at the last election? I’ve absolutely no idea…
Given that only three Labour leaders have won since WWII, there would appear to be a flaw in your reasoning. Which came as a huge surprise to me.
Are we arguing for a one party state?
This thread is symptomatic of the divisive, polarised nightmare society has become. In a nutshell, if you don't think like me you're wrong. I'm so utterly convinced my world view is the correct one, i will insult and dehumanise anyone who doesn't share it.
I have flip flopped my political allegiances throughout my life and reevaluated some once deeply held views as I have got older. I have voted on what I feel are the main issues of the day and don't feel chained to any one ideology. And crucially, I can still be mates with, and not belittle and insult people who vote differently.
Something I've thought about a lot actually.
My sister and bro in law are staunch Conservative voters. They are working class, retired now, not wealthy. My sister constantly moans about the deficiencies of the NHS. She does have health problems but she genuinely doesn't make the link between austerity, the Conservatives and the deficiencies in the NHS. She just doesn't see it.
I will have to add that there is a healthy dose of racism in her thought processes too.
My own thoughts?
The Conservatives are basically a political interpretation of Darwinism. Except money/power/being born out of the "right" vagina is the equivalent of better genes.
You need help with money?
You need help with health problems?
Tory reply, "*@£& you, if you'd have worked harder you'd have money and that would cancel out both of your problems."
I find it repugnant. I wouldn't care if I won a large amount on the lottery. I just could never vote Conservative.
Some of us will vote for literally anyone who has half a chance of denying the SNP a seat, Tory, Lib dem, Labour, Monster Raving Loonies, anyone. If the Tories are the only opposition to the SNP in my constituency they get my vote.
Rangers supporter found. Pure staunch and all that.
Posted 8 minutes ago
REPLY | REPORT
Because people like to think that they are middle class when in reality they are just a posh working class. At the end of the day if your not owning your own company with people working for you to make you money I don’t understand why you would vote Tory but when you look at the labour leaders at the last election you would vote for anyone else to keep him out.
PS I voted LD because of this, not liking Tory or labour at the time.
And piss lefties off
As sad as it is, this crops up often, especially about internet whiners. I'm afraid some people really want to shut them up and piss all over their chips by any and all means.
Oh and the sector of society viewed as scroungers with the rage constantly stoked by tabloids.
Why do people vote Tory?
I didn't vote Tory in the last GE does that mean I am good? 😃
However, I will vote Tory in the next GE if PM BoJo can continue to handle pressure.
Labour's Keir Starmer? He is a lawyer.
Large groups are often well looked after by the Tory party - pensioners , farmers, land owners, certain types of business and this has been supported by Empire, Jingoism and the myth that Thatcher saved this country, add in fear of poor people, trade unions, foreigners and to be honest a lot of people are plain old thick as s**t and can't connect the dots even when they are numbered.
The fact is we have a lot of really badly educated (broadly speaking) people who can't see past the Daily Mail headline. They are also often frightened of anything remotely different.
The Tories have never played on aspirations that is a carefully woven myth, they have always played on fear, they feed it.
Blair as much as i disliked him understood this, Cummins understands this (he is not uber smart he just knows what playbooks work) and i think Starmer gets it.
Cummins used the Blair playbook at the last election to break the redwall by offering hope - there was a memo put out to all Tory MPs to never utter the word Austerity again. However Boris has a huge problem because Cummins has no playbook for covid.. hence the current situation and no playbook for a no deal Brexit - the cummins approach has shafted Farmers, One man band Directors, Tory back benchers, lots of the Tory faithful, probably Fishermen and food processing- in short Boris sold his soul to the devil to gain the PMs job - something has to snap and i bet the ERG snap cummins at some point and i am sure Marc Francois is chambering a 303 into his virtual Lee Enfield as we speak.
Serious answer:
People's politics (left/right) seem to depend on the locus of 'us' vs 'them'. Most people are compassionate, really - they care about people in their family for example, and their friends, people they know etc. But outside that circle, they find it easy to find reasons not to care by ascribing the worst possible traits to them. If a family member became homeless, for example, they'd take them in. But those homeless people on the street, they are only begging so they can get money for drugs and stuff, of course. It works with nationality - us plucky Brits vs those bloody French - and with race too, depending on the context. And this is a natural reaction. It's been said that long ago tribal societies organised themselves into groups of about 150, because that's the largest group where everyone knows everyone - they are all 'us' - and they pull together for everyone's benefit.
But the size of the locus of 'us' depends on the context and the person. If you draw it small, then you are right wing (those dole scroungers, they are just lazy); but if you draw it large then you are left wing (we need to help these poor people who've fallen hard times).
This is a UK perspective - I think the same holds true in many countries but for instance in the US there are other ideas in addition to this.
Because it's easier to appeal to the basest instincts of human nature than it is to appeal to the finest.
The legitimisation and promotion of greed as something to aspire to rather than something to be ashamed of.
The promotion of self interest as the ultimate goal of the individual.
The fact that blame is easier than understanding.
And, ultimately, the fact that some people are just unpleasant ****ers who actively enjoy watching other people suffer.
Personally, I despise them all.
I shan't be nice to them in order to 'foster a greater understanding'.
I will not attempt to salve their consciences and doubts about the suffering they have caused, the people they have disregarded and the misery they have inflicted on others.
To all those who once voted Tory but have seen the error of their ways:
If you want absolution, pray.
If you want forgiveness, look elsewhere.
Elements of this thread sum up why I really can't be doing with left/liberal people. If you vote Tory, you're a *. If you don't agree with me, you're a *.
That and the complete over reaction to everything and anything. I've seen Boris called a murderer on my Facey today. He isn't really, is he?
You really don't help yourselves sometimes you know.
I didn't vote btw
Elements of this thread sum up why I really can’t be doing with left/liberal people.
...
You really don’t help yourselves sometimes you know.
Yet your opening gambit before anyone else had really had time to reply was that you wanted "to piss people off." You want to intentionally piss people off (which of course is clearly an admirable course of action) then you can deem to take the moral high ground when you're successful?
There will always be a minority giving the rest a bad name, but the bulk of those lefties and liberals that you can't be doing with just want to have an adult conversation without the other half resorting to insults.
If you vote Tory, you’re a *. If you don’t agree with me, you’re a *.
These two things are not equivalent.
Yet your opening gambit before anyone else had really had time to reply was....
...tongue in cheek
You may notice I stated that I didn't vote?
There will always be a minority
There are plenty in here
…tongue in cheek
Ah. Sorry, it's late.
You may notice I stated that I didn’t vote?
Then your opinion is moot.
There will always be a minority
There are plenty in here
That's not how "minority" works.
Then your opinion is moot
Not really.
Working away from home, missed chance to register for postal vote, could have made 250 mile round trip if I wanted to. Knew our area (Derbyshire Dales) was a guaranteed Conservative seat, ergo couldn't be bothered
Going to bed, will contribute more (or less some might say) tomorrow
So you said "didn't vote" when you really meant "couldn't vote." Are you just trolling?
molgrips I find that idea interesting, that left/right leaning is based upon an individuals notions of "us"...
A lot of the current Conservative linked media seems to rely on a large amount of "othering" to help the reader identify societys baddies...
My area in the NE is a recent convert to true blue. Mixed constituency but mainly ex-industrial towns and one of the poorest areas in the UK.
Our local MP is local, but privately educated upper class wet lawyer type chap. Very much in the tory boy mould.
I think it's a combination of a couple of things:
- Some sort of deference that British people have for privately educated, male, posh sounding lawyer types. They just seem "right" for being the MP, even if they basically have inhabited a different planet to 99% of their constituents for their entire life. See also the vitriol that gets directed at people like Nicola Sturgeon who have the misfortune of being a) a woman and b) from a working class background.
- Cynical (mis)use of jingoistic crap by the Tory party to present themselves as the defender of the working man and protector of England. My MP never misses a chance to be seen with a poppy, union jack, spitfires. He picks on popular local themes that hark back to a better day, and parrots those back to people.
The right focus on making the pie as big as possible.
simly wrong - thats the propaganda but the tory party exists for only one reason - to keep as much power and wealth as possible in the hands of the powerful and wealthy
They use the power of propaganda to achieve this. they control most of the media
I'm basically centrist. The actual thing I cannot stand in politics is the childish black and white good guys bad guys pantomime.
The current shower don't look like much any kind of Tory that I could recognise. They're just the comic anti foreign cooperation UKIP party in disguise.
Back to the OP. Lots of reasons. Most people (now more than ever) vote for a personality and not policies. This time around it was Big fun boris or boring useless Corbyn.
But mainly tribalism. As molgrips post.
Don't forget most people are impressionable when young. They'll make their mind up and choose their tribe and the discussion is then over.
Regardless of whether their tribe changes under their nose. See boris, bnp. Blair, 'Tory lite'.
The opposite of the Tory's sense of entitlement is the idea that Oxbridge/public school/titled people are the 'natural born leaders' and working class people defer, 'look up' to them and vote for them. If you want to get on and be accepted (and financed) you have to become like them and then you become them (they might even give you a title for your efforts) and then there might be a change of government but they're only kidding, there's no change.
Or you might be an aspirational voter: rich people vote tory so if I vote tory people might think I'm rich or I might become rich. Bit like the Beatles' dilemma, driver but no car.
Workers voting for bosses, renters voting for landlords, anyone voting for austerity, we even have low paid workers attacking people with those damned silly socialist ideas. If I were Lord Sainsbury, all this would allow me to sleep very peacefully in my bed.
posh sounding lawyer types
Genuine question. I can only think of Blair that fits this, then all the way back to Lloyd George. Who else?
(Actual PMs)
Don’t forget most people are impressionable when young. They’ll make their mind up and choose their tribe and the discussion is then over.
Another genuine question. Assuming this to be true, why?
Ive changed my mind on the Union for example and I don’t qualify as young. Is it really impressionable youth, or is it lack of exposure to different ideas at some other level.
The give away is that as people get older they tend to vote Tory a lot more than they did when younger. When young you are more (or less) equal in terms of wealth, position, home ownership etc,. so see the world in a more open way and more willing to think about impact to others as those others are more similar to you (along the lines of Molgrips "us")
That changes as people get older and they start to only care about themselves and do anything to ensure that nobody gets hold of any of their money (now they have it) and that selfishness leads to bitterness about immigrants, a labour policy to help others and all other things that they perceive will be reducing their advantage or ruining the status quo.
Covid19 has made it very clear that the very people who voted for a party who was openly damaging the NHS are now caring about it. Reason - because they or their immediate family may rely on it more than they thought
Or we could all just accept that we have quite a lot of horrible ****s in the UK (mostly England)? Just a thought.
Little England
Small town England
Perfidious Albion
The current shower have done more long term damage to our economy than covid.
The Winter of Discontent was the winter of 1978–79 in the United Kingdom, during which there were widespread strikes by public sector trade unions demanding larger pay rises, following the ongoing pay caps of the Labour Party government led by James Callaghan against Trades Union Congress (TUC) opposition to control inflation, during the coldest winter for 16 years.
And gulf war 2 I should have said.
The venom that I often hear from the left supporters is often far worse than what I hear from the right.....
All a shower of ****s.
Agree entirely with Molly. Right wing: small Us, left wing: large Us
It's obviously not just that simple, there are folk who vote on particular policies and world outlook, international, or financial whatever, but the Tories represent (to a great many folk) Normality, people who think like they do.
There's a reason they're the most successful political party in the world.
Some interesting posts here, not the offensive bigotry btw. Why stw allow the hate speech on their pages is always beyond me, it is completely against stw rules and ethos, it has become so normal here that it's as if people don't even see it,which is exactly what happens when you allow hate to fester. People rant about tabloids spreading hate while spreading hate on a modern form of media.
Back to the op, it's complicated, basic natural instincts, media consumption, tribalism, education infrastructure, immigration, aspiration, oneupmanship, fear of rocking the boat, many are living very good lives and don't want it to be worse, trust, personality politics, a want to rock the boat, nothing changes, etc etc.
It's okay to vote for whoever you like and you + your reasons should be respected. Everyone is a part of the solution/problem from beginning to end, you can't go around pointing fingers then stop when it suits.
Kerley the opposite to what you have said is also true, as people get older they have accumulated more, usually through their own labour, skills and a bit of luck. They don't want to see that taken away, they've worked for it. That's why they tend more towards conservatism. It's easy when you're young to be more idealistic and wanting equal shares for everyone, especially when that means something someone else has is given to you, it's a bit when sharing the pie out equally means letting something you've earned go to some one else.
Of course there's also people at both extremes, those that have inherited everything and the genuine dole dosser who expects everything to given to them but they are the extremes not the majority.
So you said “didn’t vote” when you really meant “couldn’t vote.” Are you just trolling?
Are you Laura Kuenssberg?
I could quite easily have voted if I'd driven home.
After seeing some of the wonderful names being thrown about above I wasn't sure whether to post but Id just thought I may as well. I have voted twice in my life so far one for remain and one for the last general election. I voted for them because I thought they would be the best party for what I saw would be good for me and my family, whether that's correct decision who knows (doesn't look so good at the moment). Looking at all the policies I would probably be LibDem voter but there was never a chance of them getting a majority. I didn't vote for Labour because I am from a long line of family that are ex forces including me and wasn't keen on Corbyns stance on the military. Also although I believe everyone should have the same chances available to them in life to achieve what they want, I don't believe (rightly or wrongly) that it should all be on a level playing field and handed out to everybody. I think some of the policies i didn't agree with so just went with what I felt. Whether I have made a mistake we will find out but I am happy to admit when I am wrong (current situation)and get on with it. What I will happily say is I never voted for them because I am racist,selfish or because I am rich or want to be rich as some have stated above. One thing I will say is that you will never find me calling people with different views all the names that appear above just because they have different views and ideas.
Good answer ifra.
Ultimately, the vast majority people vote for who they think will look after them, and their immediate family best.
If you’re rich and the opposition are saying they’ll increase taxes and look to take money away from you then you won’t vote for them.
If you’re working class and have seen an influx of Eastern European trade men come in and you feel it’s impacted how much work their is for you and what you can charge, you’ll vote for the party who want to help sort that.
If you’ve lived happily under previous Tory governments, with a reasonable job and don’t use the NHS/public services much then you may vote for the status quo.
If the leader of the opposition wants to make radical changes to things and you think things are OK as they are, you won’t vote for them.
There are many, many reasons that people vote Tory and as touched on above, calling people names won’t change their minds.
Tories tend to have posh accents, which the British are conditioned to obey.
Plus trade unions and stuff that happened 40 years ago.
I’ve avoided this thread for obvious reasons but after listening to Hancock squirm and weasel his way out of answering a simple question on the today program I can only surmise that folk vote Tory because they are happy to be lied to......or they may just be ****s
The question as to why some people are left, right, libertarian or authoritarian I find fascinating and would love if anyone can recommend any good books/links on the subject.
I think for me the reason many people vote Conservative is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
The just-world fallacy or just-world hypothesis is the cognitive bias (or assumption) that a person's actions are inherently inclined to bring morally fair and fitting consequences to that person, to the end of all noble actions being eventually rewarded and all evil actions eventually punished
It would be interesting to hear people on here who vote Conservative whether or not they agree/disagree with that hypothesis.
*shakes head*
You're all as bad as that lot
*points*
You all claim to be lefties because you empathize with other people, then start a thread talking about how you completely fail to understand another viewpoint?
Tory view - small government, low tax, successful businesses, more jobs. The belief that if the economy does well (because you take limited amounts out of it in tax) then the worst off at the bottom are better off because they have good jobs. Believes this is better for the economy because you're letting the free market find the optimum rather than trying to manage it.
Labour view - big government funded by tax to redistribute that wealth in the belief that it's more efficient to level things out than wait for the trickle down. Believes this is better overall for the economy because more people with some money spend it more than a few people with savings.
Hey look! I managed to make the distinction without having to call anyone a racist or stupid!
Because FPTP is a crap voting system and too many earning average to excellent wages and/or running their own business still think Labour would tax them to the hilt.
You never know though, Boris' balls-up up in the care homes during COVID-19 might have killed enough elderly to change things around 2023.
Working away from home, missed chance to register for postal vote,
I sent my form in as a PDF copy. No problem. Just drop your local lot an email and check that's ok, otherwise just get a form and mail it. It's not difficult.
https://www.gov.uk/contact-electoral-registration-office
I’m basically centrist. The actual thing I cannot stand in politics is the childish black and white good guys bad guys pantomime.
This is probably the bulk of the population, and a big factor in the lack of proper engagement in politics.
And the abusive name calling on here just entrenches the problem. If your only response to people holding a different opinion to you is to crudely insult them, I'd suggest that the problem may not be with them?
From a policy point of view, Tories and other right wingers are about small government, they want to do the minimum for the country to run, and everything else is up to you. Want a house? You have to get your own money and pay the market rates. Too expensive? Not our problem, you sort it out. Need medical treatment? Well you should have medical insurance, not our problem if you don't. You look after yourself, we don't.
Left wingers on the other hand believe that it IS the government's job to look after people if they need it. Can't afford a place to live? Don't worry, we've got some cheap places here. Need medical help? We've got you covered. And so on.
Both sides have advantages and disadvantages. The right wing approach means less money is taken from you in tax, and the government interferes less in your life. It means you have more flexibility to make more money. It also in theory means that the market will adapt to deliver the best services. The downside is that people can exploit each other with impunity, and market forces can reduce for example salary where supply is high.
The left wing approach can end up costing lots of money and tax, and being very inefficient. But on the other hand people should have a decent wage, somewhere to live, and medical cover etc.
People whose lives are going ok tend to want to vote for the right wing approach, because it's working for them and they don't see why their money should be taken away to give to other people - they don't see the need to help others who fall outside of their locus of 'us'. The thing you hear most often is 'well I did alright through guts and hard work, why can't everyone else?' Unfortunately this is usually a rhetorical question and they tend not to accept the actual reasons why other people can't.
Most people in the country actually accept and want the left wing approach, however in the national slanging match that passes for media in the right wing press tends to be less principled and is happy to sling more stickier mud at the left, which panders to people's understanding of the downsides of the left wing approach. For many people, engagement with the issues is so low that they aren't able to pick apart the mud from the actual policies. And we don't receive any kind of political education in this country to allow people to critically asses what they are hearing and reading.
Lack of political education in the UK is an absolutely enormous issue, in my opinion. How can you expect people to make a good decision when voting when they aren't educated about the issues?
I am from a poor North East working class background and heading towards 60, i was right in among Thatchers "adjustments" and the Miners strike. I was a paid up Union Member (AUEW) for over 20 years.
I have done well by my families standard, Apprenticeship went onto a Degree,own Business, big house and all that stuff.
I have never defended poor Union practice but its interesting that Germany the most unionised country on the planet does so well.
People talk about hate speech on here and yes I hate Thatcher and the current crop of playmobile nationalists. They simply want control via power derived from wealth transfer, property etc - said this before on here they are the natural development of The "landlord"
So inshort my Socialist/capitalist/responsible approach to politics remains the same even at my age.
tinas, well, that's the fiscal standpoint, but that's only one dimension.
Another genuine question. Assuming this to be true, why?
Ive changed my mind on the Union for example and I don’t qualify as young. Is it really impressionable youth, or is it lack of exposure to different ideas at some other level.
just look at music taste and fashion as another example
for the bulk of folk, their decisions on many many things tend to be quite fixed by around mid twenties
they've picked their tribe, and that as they say is that
nothing beyond pure tribal instinct to stick with their choice until death do them part
from then on, look for corroborating evidence of a good choice, ignore the evidence of a bad choice
My parents never made it out of the late 50s, 60s and just the merest dash of 70s. Not bad people, simply didn't keep up with the times. Britain still Ruled The Waves, The Empire was still a thing (although it was dead in the water), the Cold War is on. Ze Germans were Ze Bad Guys but we gave them a good boshing, now it is the Ruskies. John Wayne films. Dress sense, music, just the same. Always voted the same way and that way is not coincidentally the same as their parents always voted. The Reds are commies, can't never vote for them. No changes. No surprises. Challenge the world view? Good luck.
From a conversation with my sister-in-law: We'd be thousands worse off, seriously.
This was from the interior of her recently extended 5 bed house, wine room was part of the new extension, there's 3 of them in the house. They also own a flat in Islington.
So for some it is purely about them and their own personal situation!