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I've voted for them myself.
I've voted for them in four different constituencies where I've lived as an adult, and they've won and sent MPs to parliament.
I understand tactical voting, I understand "least worst option" reasoning, but I've also voted for them because some of my political beliefs have fitted well with theirs. I have also have seen good people who cared about local issues try to get things done.
I think I can understand why people vote Tory- small business, military, tax cuts, law and order, small state, Brexit, perceived least worst option. And they've generally followed it up in power.
I think I can understand why people vote Labour - NHS, social state, education, equality, perceived least worst option. And they've generally followed it up in power.
And I can see the appeal of voting Lib Dems as a centrist, as a lefty, or a righty.
But something stinks at the top. They've had options over the last ten years, and their leadership have made the most questionable decisions I've ever seen in politics.
Going back to the coalition, they brought the Tories to power, despite their manifesto positioning themselves to the left of labour, who had more seats, and facilitated the start of Brexit. All the way through to the last election where Labour knew they didn't have the cards to win, split vote. The Tories knew it too. And the lib Dems leadership.
The Tories were bumbling along failing in government without majority.
But the lib Dems leadership pincered labour and pushed for the election that could only result in getting Brexit done. Something stinks.
If it was a game of poker you'd think that there's a cut going somewhere for bluffing and raising with no cards. I'd never play with them again, trust is broken , nothing provable, but looking back -when they've had choices they've played the game like they were on the take. They've done it before. They've said sorry before.
I can't vote for them again.
Same reason that beige exists as a colour.
I used to vote for them because their policies appealed to me more than any other party. Changes in Labour policies at the last two elections drew me to vote for them instead. I think personalities win elections, but I try hard to stick to policies myself.
Same reason that beige exists as a colour.
I can't find the article now but consistently for election after election the general public when tested for their beliefs and priorities with something like the political compass questionnaire would have been best served voting for the LDs if their aim was to vote for a party that would best represent them. If instead of voting you filled in the political compass survey and it gave your vote to the party of personal best fit the Lib Dems would have got in with a landslide.
Our FPTP voting system alongside our inherited traditional voting patterns and brand loyalty (the proportion of the population who vote the way their parents did and remain doing so their entire adult lives) mean that the third (or indeed 4th if you count the SNP) party will always struggle. A struggling third party will always have fewer members of parliament from which to choose their leadership which is never great and you only happy upon charisma and intelligence infrequently (RIP Charles Kennedy).
I fundamentally believe that if the government was chosen from the total popular vote AND the public understood what this meant and voted accordingly the LDs would be in power within an election or two.
because I am centerist dad
Where I live labour have no chance and never will.
Those questionnaires always give me the SNP as the best fit, which is of little use to me down here! Likewise, if your best fit is LibDem, and they lost their deposit at the previous election, it’s not very helpful when it comes to actually making use of you vote.
Those questionnaires always give me the SNP as the best fit, which is of little use to me down here! Likewise, if your best fit is LibDem, and they lost their deposit at the previous election, it’s not very helpful when it comes to actually making use of you vote
Which is why it only works (and arguably we get the government we want) if we ditch the first past the post system. I can think of a couple of powerful groups that might have a problem with that however.
They don't
And therein lies the problem
I'll vote for what I believe in, not to try and oppose something else. As my beliefs usually fall in line with lib dem policy they get my vote. I just wish others would actually vote for what they beleive in rather than trying to be tactical.
And FPTP is shit, and not proper democracy imo.
if we ditch the first past the post system
Agreed 100% … it all starts there.
Tactical vote here, sorry.
Tactical vote here, sorry.
I don't blame you - the system we are in makes this a very hard habit to break.
Wouldn't vote Tory to save my life and the couldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn, so Libdem was the least worst option at the last election.
I'll probably vote Labour at the next one as Starmer seems like one of the few adults in a political world of dysfunctional children....
I’m a liberal (note the small little) and have voted Liberal, but I find their policies increasingly at odds with the fundamental tenets of liberalism.
The tuition fees debacle should have been the last straw for me, but the lack of other options meant that I still voted for them in the last election.
What I’d like to see is a party that was evidence based with its policies; I despise the way that political dogma on both sides of the spectrum is the main driver of policies.
JP
"couldn’t vote for Jeremy Corbyn"
Honest question - why was that and do you not think it's more important to vote on policy than personality?
Hey, many of us that voted Labour thought he would make a poor PM… and his closest advisors unsuitable to be in No10… but he/they were still a far far better choice than the other main option… as every month of this government reminds us more and more. I voted based on the policy platform though, and the last two LibDems manifestos weren’t very impressive.
No idea where the LibDems go from here.
"many of us that voted Labour thought he would make a poor PM… and his closest advisors unsuitable to be in No10"
Why was that? Again, not trolling here but the anti-Corbyn sentiment left me confused. Here we had someone proposing to address the big structural failures in our society: tax evasion, education, healthcare, the environment, rip off privatisation, obscene executive pay, housing and most importantly - and perhaps why they could have never been allowed near power, land reform, which is the reason why house prices so insane and renting to expensive. I didn't understand rationally why, unless you were rich, you wouldn't vote for this.
Why was that? Again, not trolling here but the anti-Corbyn sentiment left me confused.
For me there are two issues, there are policies from the party and there is also whether or not you think the individuals can implement those polices effectively.
In the case of JC, I had absolutely no faith whatsoever that he or his advisers could organise a piss up in a brewery, so the polices themselves were irrelevant as I had no zero confidence in the people who would be trying to implement them. In every challenge that came along in opposition, JC and Co demonstrated complete ineptitude eg anti-semitism. He was just a walking disaster zone, lumbering from one cock up to the next completely oblivious to how badly he handled everything.
Keir Starmer on the other hand does at least appear to be able to tie his own shoelaces, which for the Labour Party is a huge step up in ability.
He was just a walking disaster zone, lumbering from one cock up to the next completely oblivious to how badly he handled everything.
Like what exactly?
Like what exactly?
Does it matter?
He's gone, consigned to the dustbin of political failures having handed the Tories their largest majority in decades.
Why was that?
There is a thread you can read if you’re bored.
@convert Acting like a true LD there, moving any political discussion onto electoral reform. You’ll be pointing at potholes next.
@kelvin Massive and very critical election review has just taken place, not sure what’s going to happen next but the president (since the beginning of the year) is a sensible chap, and the new leader is likely to be either Davey or Moran, both of whom are likely to do a decent job. Mind you, I voted for Farron and then Swinson, so my judgement may be flawed.
DOI: Lifelong LD voter and member since 2015.
Why was that? Again, not trolling here but the anti-Corbyn sentiment left me confused. Here we had someone proposing to address the big structural failures in our society: tax evasion, education, healthcare, the environment, rip off privatisation, obscene executive pay, housing and most importantly – and perhaps why they could have never been allowed near power, land reform, which is the reason why house prices so insane and renting to expensive. I didn’t understand rationally why, unless you were rich, you wouldn’t vote for this.
Because it's not a game of civ2 on your PC? Do you get how hard it is to achieve meaningful reforms in government? You can go 2 years without making an impactful decision. So attempting to install a non-politician (JC) into government as PM is a contradiction in terms - just a giant waste of everyone's time.
The best UK politician of the last 30 years (by overwhelming common consensus), with two big majorities and one slim one, plus a solid parliamentary machine and no serious internal strife, still didn't load the positive side of the ledger with win after win, did he? It's a thin legacy before you even get to the colossal blunder of the Iraq conflict. Tells you that it is hard as balls to create a true, lasting, legislative agenda in Westminster.
Anyhow, off topic but agree with the OP that the LDs have had some amazing specimens in front line roles over the past ten years, that make you wonder is everything on the level. Tim Farron, Jo Swinson - just the wrong tier entirely.
The earliest political opinion I can remember having (and still hold) is that an electoral system that grants a party a thumping great majority based on getting forty-something percent of the vote seemed pretty stupid and unfair, so that's pushed me towards the LibDems ever since. And while other parties occasionally mutter promising words about electoral reform, most seem to decide that everything's OK after all when its them that has the thumping great majority.
On the other hand, the LibDems do seem to have demonstrated quite high levels of political naivety and/or incompetence over quite a few years now, not least how massively outplayed they got when forming the coalition. So while their policies often still appeal to me I am not convinced they have the competence to make a difference even if their electoral results started to improve.
@convert Acting like a true LD there, moving any political discussion onto electoral reform. You’ll be pointing at potholes next.
Why would you make the mistake of thinking I was a LD supporter? It is possible to think objectively about what is 'right' without necessarily having a self interest. Besides, it is very difficult to have a discussion about why people to and don't vote for the the third party without mentioning the voting system as it has a fundamental effect on why someone may or may not vote for them.
Does it matter?
It just strikes me as odd how some folk have this massive hard on about Corbyn, but when you question it, they don't seem to know why.
@convert I never said you were a LD, just that you were acting like one (the tendency of every discussion to get derailed into one on electoral reform is an admittedly weak standing joke on most LD forums)
I voted for the Lib Dems once in 2017. The reason was i could not vote for Corbyn and the Lib Dems were the better option for my disdain for brexit. They had no hope of winning but neither did the tories.
However in 2019 there was a risk that my fairly safe labour seat might fall to the tories so i went back to Labour, reluctantly and with the view that a hung parliament was as good as Corbyn was going to get. Under a different voting system I would have voted Lib Dem again.
I live in a safe Tory seat so voted lid dem in that election where they were threatening to do well. They didn’t, then Clegg joined the Tories so I won’t be doing so again.
I used to vote for them because their policies appealed to me more than any other party
I still vote for them cos of that.
“couldn’t vote for Jeremy Corbyn”
Honest question – why was that and do you not think it’s more important to vote on policy than personality?
If someone like Tommy Robinson came out with a manifesto that was everything i wanted i wouldn't even consider it, zero chance. So personality, character and track record of the leader of a movement/party are a massive thing. As with Johnson now - it was irrelevant to me what was in his manifesto - he is a lying shit and he would never get my vote.
It just strikes me as odd how some folk have this massive hard on about Corbyn, but when you question it, they don’t seem to know why.
Well it is hardly surprising when they base their opinion on a crowd at Glastonbury singing "oh Jeremy Corbyn"
It just strikes me as odd how some folk have this massive hard on about Corbyn, but when you question it, they don’t seem to know why.
What strikes me as odd is that half the Labour party is still trying to win the last election - they just can't get over the fact other people didn't think he was the new messiah. There's no hope of them winning the next one if they don't get over him and realise what a huge mistake he was.