1) Many people are dicks, doubly so behind a wheel.
2) Most speedos over-read. Your indicated 49 will probably be closer to the low- to mid-40s. But mostly, see 1).
some people will sit permanently at 43 mph in every zone
Gorram monospeeders boil my piss. My old commute had a stretch which went 60 - 30 - 50, almost daily I'd overtake someone doing ~40 in the 60, come the 30 zone they'd be so close to my back bumper you couldn't get a razor blade between the two vehicles, then when it went back up to 50 I'd leave them for dead. Happened more days than it didn't.
IME it depends what vehicle you’re in.
I was going to ask, "what car do you drive?" I saw a marked difference in driver attitudes when I had the misfortune to get a Micra as a company car once. Not confirmation bias, I thought "what the hell is going on with everyone today?" before making the connection, after being almost run off the road for the umpteenth time that day.
30-31 and cruise control.
Guilty of 33 when late although that’s probably really 31 real speed.
Had a police on my tail for driving at 30 mph only for them to pass me in dual lanes with 30 mph?!
I did 40mph downhill on my road bike...
Likewise the ones that flash and swear at you when you legally and safely overtake them.
I get this a lot. Someone (usually in a Honda Jazz) driving along an empty 60mph limit road at 30. I safely overtake at 50mph and they start flashing as though I am some sort of maniac. I can only assume they think the speed limit is 30 or even worse they only feel safe driving at 30
Then if its a duel lane ...
To the death.
I don't really recognise this behaviour. I can't think of any times I've been tailgated on an NSL single carriageway or a 30mph road while travelling at the speed limit.
Yes I see tailgating, but its usually on the motorway or when someone is well below the speed limit on an NSL road.
I regularly overtake slow drives on NSL roads but I don't tailgate. Its stupid and dangerous and actually makes a safe overtake harder as it limits your visibility. Also the car doing 40mph is probably doing that speed because, for whatever reason, its as fast as they feel comfortable. Sitting up their arse constantly tapping your brake pedal as you sit a car length away isn't going to make them speed up. This seems lost on a lot of people though.
so the first thing you do is something stupid…two wrongs don’t make a right.
What would you suggest as a better course of action, out of interest?
I get this a lot.
Are you sure it's as safe and legal as you believe. I can't recall ever having it happen to me.
Yep, absolutely sure it is safe (straight road, no cars ahead, 60mph limit). How many people doing 30 in a 60 do you overtake per week? If the answer is low/none that may explain why it hasn't happened to you.
What would you suggest as a better course of action, out of interest?
Just ignore them and carry on as your were?
I learnt my lesson about 18years ago as a newish driver where I dabbed the brakes and nearly had a Corsa in through the back window. I've never done it since.
(I know the original post said he didn't actually brake, just flashes his brake lights at them).
Although thinking about it I don't get tailgated very often, can't recall the last time at the moment.
The consequences of deliberate aggressive actions on your part will only escalate the situation and deliver road rage type scenarios or worse the risk of harm or injury to other road users.
Say what? There were no aggressive actions on my part, deliberate or otherwise.
(I tell a lie - I may have tutted, and Mrs Pondo and I definitely had a good moan.)
Yeah, I get this quite a lot when I'm driving the camper.
I'm generally not in a rush and not wanting to burn fuel like it's going out of fashion so I basically never speed in it.
People just LOVE to get past me though.
The fact that I will inevitably catch them at the next roundabout or set of lights seems lost on them. Also with being up quite high and having ALL THE MIRRORS I can get close enough to them in the queue so all they see is my bull bars and extra fog lights in their rear view. Not that I would do that obviously...
phil5556
I learnt my lesson about 18years ago as a newish driver where I dabbed the brakes and nearly had a Corsa in through the back window. I’ve never done it since.
That's where you went wrong. You want to give them the ol' handbrake surprise, no brake lights so they'll definitely being paying out for whiplash and a new bumper then.
What would you suggest as a better course of action, out of interest?
What tj went on to say - gradually slow down to increase the space in front.
Leaving every subsequent driver to get annoyed by the 2 twits convoying at 22mph. Slowing down turns one dickhead driver into two dickhead drivers
@retro83 I know, it wasn't my finest piece of driving.
Those that slow down are your really doing it to increase the space Infront, or to make the point to the person behind?
Edit: yeah what Ajay said.
You don't slow down that much, just briefly ease off to open a bigger gap in front then carry on at the speed you were doing.
Also drop it two cogs and keep the right foot primed so you can boot it and hang them out to dry if they try and overtake. 😎
Just ignore them and carry on as your were?
So you'd happily drive at the speed limit with some joker an inch from your bumper? Sounds safe.
Those that slow down are your really doing it to increase the space Infront, or to make the point to the person behind?
I'd do it to increase the space behind if the brake light trick didn't work. Let up on the accelerator then speed back up to the limit, creates a gap behind you. Rinse and repeat if they tailgate again. It's particularly effective with lorries and vans which don't have great acceleration.
And yeah, sure, I'm sure some folk will complain about that. But to my mind it's the lesser of several evils, if I've got a truck parked on my bumper doing 50 in average-speed controlled motorway roadworks down to one lane then I absolutely want them off my arse, if I have to brake suddenly for some reason they'd be picking me up with a spatula otherwise. If anyone has any better solutions I'm all ears.
Pull a full emergency stop in a normal car in front of a loaded HGV that's following at the correct 2 second gap; it is still going to flatten you.
In the context of motorway road works. Normal MW they've got a chance to avoid you by going on the hard shoulder.
I do have some sympathy with this technique in the motorway and HGV situation described by cougar. In the OP and TJ's driving at (originally) 30 in a 30 with I presume an impatient german saloon behind them; not so much, hence my previous comment.
"Yeah, I get this quite a lot when I’m driving the camper.
I’m generally not in a rush and not wanting to burn fuel like it’s going out of fashion so I basically never speed in it.
People just LOVE to get past me though."
This x 10million.
ITs amazing what folk will do to get past me , or will even pull out directly infront of me necessitating a full on emergency stop in order not to have to be behind me.....
I generally sit at 55 on A roads/Dualers for the same reasons as billoddie.
folk will play chicken with oncoming cars , folks will use hardshoulders , folks will just about drop their engine inside out wringing its neck to get every last bit of power out of it to get past rather than wait for a safe space....
I just fitted a dash cam and anticipate idiocy now.
an inch from your bumper? Sounds safe
What's the actual danger? If you're going less than 30 anyway... you get a tap on the bumper?
It's irritating, but I don't think there's much of a safety issue, really.
Am I allowed to post this? It’s a bit sweary, but great .
So you’d happily drive at the speed limit with some joker an inch from your bumper? Sounds safe. If anyone has any better solutions I’m all ears
Pull over when it's convenient, and let them past. It's pretty much the safest solution to it.
My view is that sooner or later people like that are going to have an accident, and I don't want to be any where near them when they do, and i certainly don't want them tailgating me.
Self-righteous twerps who sit at just below the speed limit, yet accelerate when I move out to overtake them... Gggrr.. Clearly not that bothered about safety, they just want to wind others up. String 'em up!
Yeah, why is it that most of the drivers who drive well below the speed limit, still don't have time to think about using their indicators?
Pull over when it’s convenient, and let them past. It’s pretty much the safest solution to it.
Not many pulling-in places in a contraflow, and in any case it often can be tricksy to do that without braking.
But sure, if conditions allowed it then that's what I'd do as a first choice. If someone is that desperate to be in front of me then I'd rather they were, well, in front of me. You just don't always have that option, is all.
Gorram monospeeders boil my piss
Ths ^. Worst of both worlds, they speed in the most dangerous zones and make the riskier-if-dicks-are-about-zones even more dangerous by being a contributing factor to reckless driving.
My favourite type is the rare reverse speedster. Those dicks in their own special category that will happily sit at 35-40 in a 60 and then, when they come to a 30, suddenly speed up. The road from Alderley Edge to Macclesfield seems to attract them of an evening. It’s like they think that signs indicate when a limit ends.
On the motorway lack of minimum speed, I believe you could be done for unsafe driving if crawling along at a slow speed, and obviously not stuck in traffic.
As for the need to speed, I feel it's the culture of British driving and/or the stress of people's daily lives and work/school hours. Driving in the UK and around the South East in particular during "rush hour" a lot of people drive aggressively, and it's not just the BMWs and boy racers, or just the blokes. I've also noticed a herd attitude where everyone will bunch up and race each other, but if most back off each other even some of the tailgaters will too.
I've often said that when I've been driving in the US, it all seems very chilled there. At least on the west side. In towns people are crawling along at 20/30 yet it seems perfectly fine and don't notice it's particularly slow. No one up your backside, just cruising. Highways and interstates, crank up to 55 to 70 depending on the limit, and cruise along again.
Maybe it's the big wide open roads, the cars with ludicrous bouncy suspension that wouldn't cope with harsh driving, the automatics with loads of grunt but no power. Don't know. Sure they have rush hour, but the most aggression is just beeping at each other when stuck in traffic. Other thing is with some exceptions they don't do the lane rules we have. Just pick a lane and sit in it, overtake either side. Hills sometimes different and it may have keep to the right signs. Means there's no need to be an aggressive dick rushing to undertake and squeeze into a gap, you just pick a lane that's going the speed you want and change as appropriate.
Anyway, I've tried to get less stressed about UK driving. If someone's acting a dick, let them go past and don't rise to the challenge or start getting outraged over someone else's driving. If someone cuts me up, doesn't pay attention at a roundabout/junction, then I'll generally let it go. A lot of the time things are mistakes anyway. I'm less stressed and drive at a reasonable speed now.
@deadkenny is right. I have driven quite a lot abroad, all over the continent (in aforementioned camper), and in the US, NZ and Canada.
Aside from driving round NYC, Boston and maybe Vancouver (heading North at Peak time maybe isn't the best idea), it's been far less stressful than driving in the UK. Even NYC, Bos and Van are nowhere near as stressful than the inevitable trip around some of the M25 and up the M1 on the way home from the airport.
Rome and Napoli were sort of stressy IIRC but it was more horns and hand gestures than anything dangerous.
I told a guy off for passing me at about 100mph at the weekend, it turned out he was going to the same shop as me. He apologised which I thought was strange. Audi RS3 btw haha
I recently hired a very nice BMW X5 for a long journey (cheap hire, I'd planned on getting something more normal but this was only about £10 more for the weekend). Being worried about having to pay any excess/damage charges (financial equivalent of a spike on the steering wheel) was a good thing as it meant that I was really passive and defensive while driving it. e.g. seeing someone in the left turn only lane of a roundabout, but not indicating left, so I thought they might go straight on via the lane I was in. They did, but it was fine, because I'd already assumed they'd do it and got out of the way. If I was in my car I wouldn't necessarily have been quite so wary, but I probably should be.
Parking was a pain due to the sheer size of it, but otherwise I just wafted around at the speed limit, when someone who wanted to go (illegally) faster came up behind me I pulled over and let them through. If I wanted to overtake I had all the torques so could do it quickly and easily, which was great for the 40mph-everywhere crowd.
I'm one of those drivers that stick more or less to the speed limit. I get overtaken at least once a week in a 30 zone, only to catch that driver up at the traffic lights 5 miles further on.
The chap I spoke to at the institute of advanced drivers says: if you're being tailgated and it's getting dangerous or you feel scared, pull over. let them pass. No amount of slowing down or braking will stop their behaviour.
The road I mostly drive on is a very well used cycle route. The overtaking and bad driving I see every day when around these cyclists is dreadful. I've been flashed at, flicked the Vs, sworn at and fist shaken for staying behind people riding bikes on a bendy road. If I'm doing the speed limit, I'm prepared for having a driver on my side coming the other way, when they've impatiently overtaken a cyclist, or coming across a person riding round a sharp bend in front of me.
Quite frankly over the last 5 years my confidence has taken a real nose dive from other drivers who drive dangerously and are rude, inconsiderate and don't obey the highway code or any rules of the road.
Those that slow down are your really doing it to increase the space Infront, or to make the point to the person behind?
Mainly to increase the space in front and to reduce the speeds so any collision is less dangerous with a very pleasant side effect of winding up the plonkers
I will NEVER tolerate someone else compromising my safety. tailgate me and be prepared for me to slow down and keep on slowing. I have been down to walking pace before now and the person behind wouldn't pass despite the clear straight road
tjagain
Those that slow down are your really doing it to increase the space Infront, or to make the point to the person behind?Mainly to increase the space in front and to reduce the speeds so any collision is less dangerous with a very pleasant side effect of winding up the plonkers
I will NEVER tolerate someone else compromising my safety. tailgate me and be prepared for me to slow down and keep on slowing. I have been down to walking pace before now and the person behind wouldn’t pass despite the clear straight road
So said plonker is then angry with you, and you think that's likely to improve your safety?
You're just asking for a dodgy overtake followed by a brake test/punch up.
Its still safer than allowing somone to tailgate you. I do not want a 2 tonne car thru my back window if I have to stop suddenly. Hence slowing down. Its for my safety. that tops everything
Hence slowing down
tells you to do that in the highway code
that tops everything
even the brake checking? 😉
I’m prepared for having a driver on my side coming the other way, when they’ve impatiently overtaken a cyclist,
I have been down to walking pace before now and the person behind wouldn’t pass despite the clear straight road
The real hilarity is that these actions are likely to be in the repertoire of the same drivers. The number of people who will sit behind a tractor until the heat death of the universe but gleefully fling themselves into oncoming traffic when encountering a cyclist astounds me.
I do not want a 2 tonne car thru my back window
Those hover cars do have quite rubbish brakes.
poah
tells you to do that in the highway code
Highways England says different.
What you should do
Just drive normally:
The key is to not let the tailgater’s poor behaviour negatively influence your own driving. Simply continue to drive safely and cautiously, aware but not affected by their presence.
Allow them to overtake:
Keep a steady speed so they may overtake. Alternatively, pull to the side of the road, or turn off at a petrol station, but only if it is safe to do so.
Clearly signal:
Ensure the tailgater has a clear idea of your intentions by signalling early and changing your speed well in advance of a turn off.
What you shouldn’t do
Don’t speed up:
Generally this will encourage the tailgater to speed up behind you. Continue to travel at a safe speed. Do not allow the pressure from the tailgater to influence you to drive unsafely.
Don’t slow down:
Intentionally slowing down to irritate the close follower or tapping the brake lights can trigger road rage and cause more dangerous scenarios to arise.
Don’t stare in the rear-view mirror:
It can be tempting to stare at the driver behind but can cause you to lose focus on what’s in front of you.
Jambo - I don't actually hit the brakes - just light up the brake lights for a second.
although I do wonder about people who will tailgate but not overtake when they get the opportunity.
the person behind wouldn’t pass despite the clear straight road
...
You’re just asking for a dodgy overtake
Did you actually read the post you quoted?
although I do wonder about people who will tailgate but not overtake when they get the opportunity.
I'll wager they're the same people who come steaming out of side roads into traffic with barely enough space to fit a car, then dribble along at 20mph in front of you.
There does seem to be a certain mentality of driver that wants to drive in front of you, slower than you. I had one the other day on a drive up to the Lakes, I guess he took umbrage at being overtaken by a Skoda or something. Soon after I'd overtaken he came flying past me, a minute later I'd caught him up as he was doing about 60 in the middle lane so I passed him again. Rinse and repeat for miles, I had the cruise control set to (an actual) 70mph and didn't accelerate or brake once. Bizarre.
I’ll wager they’re the same people who come steaming out of side roads into traffic with barely enough space to fit a car, then dribble along at 20mph in front of you.
Ooh! I forgot about those bastards.
Cougar
Subscriber
the person behind wouldn’t pass despite the clear straight road
…
You’re just asking for a dodgy overtake
Did you actually read the post you quoted?
Errr, did you?
The 'person who wouldn't pass' was a single example from something he has done multiple times and says he will continue doing, besides he had no idea how they would react until after he'd actually done it.
The point from my post was that one day perhaps it will not be somebody who toddles along behind him at a walking pace, but rather somebody like Kenneth Noye or Flynn Prevost. I would have thought that would be quite clear, but apparently not.
a minute later I’d caught him up as he was doing about 60 in the middle lane so I passed him again. Rinse and repeat for miles
This is exactly the sort of thing that tries my patience to the limit and I just stick my foot down until they're long gone. I know it's wrong and criminal and all that, but I cannot help it.
I do a lot of driving to the coasts of Yorks & Lancs, from Leeds. They have so many mobile speed traps along these routes, such as the A64 towards York, it's just not worth the risk to get there quicker. So I do like to be abide the speed side, oh I do like to be abide the speed.
What’s really grinds my gears is idiots doing 40 in a 60 then when you get to a 30 they’re doing 40.... take their licence off them please. Hitting someone at 30 can kill them, at 40 there’s absolutely no chance....so so stupid! Sometimes you just want to throttle some drivers!!
Sometimes you just want to throttle some drivers!!
That'd just make them go faster...
Living in an area with the highest proportion of over 65's in the country (who love to buy a Honda Jazz or Hyundai i10's which seem to be built with 19 mph speed limiters, blanked out mirrors & non functioning indicators), narrow twisty & congested roads it is all but impossible to 'speed' anywhere anyway even if you wanted to. I have long since accepted this and just go with the flow so to speak. The local police have helpful road safety signs up around here saying things like 'you'll also be old one day' (and dead at some stage I presume).
Living in an area with the highest proportion of over 65’s in the country (who love to buy a Honda Jazz or Hyundai i10’s which seem to be built with 19 mph speed limiters & non functioning indicators), narrow twisty & congested roads it is all but impossible to ‘speed’ anywhere anyway even if you wanted to.
Slightly OT but I have surmised this is why the MIL dislikes road cyclists and "always" seems to be stuck behind them.
She is such a slow and erratic driver that she would usually have an empty road ahead (and a conga line in the mirrors, which I'm sure goes unnoticed).
To actually be stuck behind something going slower than she wants to go is worthy of note, rather than the default for the most of us.
Well this thread has turned out as predicted..
Moar doughnuts anyone?
Old people really should drive faster
They have less time left to get to where they are going
So you’d happily drive at the speed limit with some joker an inch from your bumper? Sounds safe.
It isn't safe. The primary objective of any journey is to arrive safely at your destination, this is something I do day in day out. I'll tell you what to do if you've got a persistent tailgater you pull over when it's safe and let them past. Sod your ego their a tosser not you, just get home in one piece.
The newer Honda Jazz cause some problems with the auto-folding mirrors for the tech-averse older driver. I had the joy of following one (at a safe distance) where the driver couldn't get them deployed. It was a slow drive!
My auto mirrors unfold themselves at approx 20mph. But then I've got one of those evil German cars that I terrorise Honda Jazz drivers with.
Re the slowing with someone following you I really think you're best off just continuing as you are, don't be intimidated and pull over when you can if you want them past you.
I don't agree about carrying on until you can pull over. During that period when you are carrying on you are being put at risk by that driver. If you slow down you reduce the risk
I for one am delighted that this thread has not descended into the expected willy-waving contest.
I for one like Roman numerals.
Bad, inconsiderate and reckless driving is one very strong reason why we can't wait to leave Lancashire and move to rural Scotland. At least for nine months of the year we will have the roads almost to ourselves.
I don’t agree about carrying on until you can pull over.
That's fine, we can disagree 🙂
My take on it is it's safer to have someone tailgate you than it is to wind up the driver behind who then becomes irate/irrational and then does something stupid.
Recently I've seen a car slow to a crawl on the motorway to stop a van getting past, I have no idea what started it but I'd wager it was one of the drivers reacting to the other doing something that they saw as wrong and decided to get vigilante on them.
And it's not a one off.
I’ve seen a car slow to a crawl on the motorway to stop a van getting past
I don't understand this - if the car slowed to a crawl why didn't the van simply overtake?
I don’t understand this – if the car slowed to a crawl why didn’t the van simply overtake?
Because 2 lanes and the car was swerving over both of them to stop him.
I was in traffic on the opposite carriageway.
Bloody rubberneckers. :p
you are being put at risk by that driver.
Still not seen the explanation as to how it's actually dangerous for the car in front at <30mph.
Jambo – I don’t actually hit the brakes – just light up the brake lights for a second.
tapping the brakes and hitting the hazard lights at the same time is also very effective.
you are being put at risk by that driver.
Still not seen the explanation as to how it’s actually dangerous for the car in front at <30mph.
Because if I have to emergency stop then the car behind will hit me. basic physics.
Still not seen the explanation as to how it’s actually dangerous for the car in front at <30mph.
Other speed limits are available.
... besides which, if someone's been road-raging on your bumper and then subsequently runs into the back of you, do you think they're going to jump out and go "frightfully sorry old bean"? Or do you think there's a risk - you might say a "danger" even - of them getting a bit punchy?
In any case, just because you're unlikely to die in a 20mph collision doesn't mean it's desirable, does it. "Oh, I'll let the guy run into me, it'll only be a couple of grand's worth of damage, a load of hassle and increased insurance premiums for the next five years" said no-one ever.
Because if I have to emergency stop then the car behind will hit me. basic physics.
No it won't - it'll hit your car. Or it might, if the driver is too slow to react. That's pretty basic.
Well, that's OK then. No-one ever got hurt in a <30mph collision.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9455663
Oh.
No - they WILL hit your car - thats because they are too close. It matters not one jot how quick their reactions are At 30 mph if they are closer than 3 - 4 m and you emergency stop they will have hit you before they have time to react ( reaction time around 0.4 seconds, 13 m/s at 30 mph)
A few years ago I w on the M^ on my motorbike. As often happens traffic was concertinaing up in the outside lane which I was in . Car behind got to close, I couldn't acceolerate because of the car in front. I slowed, the car behind got closer. I decided it was too dangerous and moved into lane two 30 seconds later the car that had been infront of me braked adn the car that had been behind me hit it. Less than 5 m between the cars at 70mph. If I hadn't moved over I would have been hit very hard indeed.
Witnessed the most amazing lucky escape a few years ago on the M56 near Frodsham. It's a typical tail gating situation, focus driver not watching traffic slowing, hit the brakes hard, and completely span the car 360. Ended up on the inside lane without hitting anything.
thats because they are too close. It matters not one jot how quick their reactions are At 30 mph if they are closer than 3 – 4 m and you emergency stop they will have hit you before they have time to react ( reaction time around 0.4 seconds, 13 m/s at 30 mph)
extend that logic, and its actually safer for them to be closer as the speed differential will be less...
😉
Bloody rubberneckers
😂 guilty
If someone tailgates me, I continue driving the same, but i aim to increase the gap to the vehicle in front, this gives me more time to react gently, if necessary, plus it gives the tailgater a chance to pass me.
If someone is driving like a dick, I’d rather they were in front of me, that way i can ensure a safe gap.
Nobody wins if there’s a collision.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9455663
/blockquote>Thanks! That's what I was after.
I know what I'm doing next time I get tailgated...
Putting my bloody foot down 😆
If you remove your mirrors you won't know the tailgater is there.
Or mix it up a bit and drive with your eyes shut, adds a little fizz to the daily grind.
