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Looking at a new or more likely, 1-2 year old second hand car. Not one has a dashcam......why on earth not? It seems ludicrous that the first thing you have to do when you buy a new motor is start prying off interior trim to put in another camera or have some ugly aftermarket wires sprouting out of the dash. I mean its not like they don't have cameras all over them already - the EV6 and Ioniq 5 have about 8 cameras each showing such incredibly useful things as the roof of your vehicle....yay
And while I'm about it, why would you design a car that costs £50k new and has more tech than the ISS (and can probably communicate with it) yet omit a rear wiper and puddle lamps!!!!!!
Argghhhh I hate buying cars
Privacy, particularly in places like Germany, Luxembourg and Switzerland.
Why do you need a dash cam? I suspect it is easy to have it as an optional extra for manufacturers to get more money out the paying punter and not many people opt for it.
Aftermarket likely to be cheaper and then it is down to the paying punter to decide if they want one or not.
I think they are a great idea, but don't have one and don't want to pay for one...
Rear wiper - not really needed on a saloon-style car but definitely a hatchback/suv-style - what shape of car are you looking at?
Puddle lights - assuming you have a good look as you pull up, you won't be parking in a puddle - again, not something I would see as a necessary accessory...
Probably cost but would make a good optional extra.
It wasn't so long ago rear seatbelts, disk brakes, etc. were extra cost options. It would be pretty cheap to fit cameras as standard, but being able to charge for them as an upgrade would add up to a lot of extra cash if you're selling millions of cars per year.
Fear of it being used to incriminate the car buyer / driver.
Kind of wished I had one yesterday when a lunatic in a big pick up tried to drive through me at a junction, ram me out of the way, scream repeatedly at me that I was an effing Tuesday, then lean out of his car and rip my mirror off.
I was on a motorbike. Absolutely not any clue what his issue was.
Absolutely not any clue what his issue was.
Based on this
a lunatic in a big pick up
I'm going with "tiny penis".
mercedes have a built in dash cam in many models as they have a forward facing camera for sign recognition and other things. To use it as a dashcam you need to pay an additional few hundred quid to activate it. I'm assuming many other manufacturers are doing the same
Standalone units are pretty cheap and not all that bad. Cheaper and ? bettererer than using a pre-installed factory job that loses functionality and updates after it's been in the car for a few years.
I've avoided getting one for years but after a few near misses that could have been a "he said / she said" scenario I gave in and I bought a Viofo 129pro which has front, rear and hard wire kit for parking impact detection. I probably freaked myself out watching Scotty's Dash Cams which has people upload their footage and he makes a 20 min vid of eejuts, near misses, actual hits and people getting karma from the traffic cops.
It's not going to prevent a collision, but it's gonna help when it gets messy and cops are involved, or insurance claims.
Unbeknownst to me, madame says her new car has puddle lamps. Although she likes to call them damp socks
I'm with the OP.
Why have one ? Simple. Too many complete ****s on the road driving badly. Same reason I have one in the push bike.
That they're not built in , and not even a manufacturer optional extra is annoying- I have to fit a crappy bolt on aftermarket on instead.
The Subaru i tried out a couple of weeks back. It's got 3 cameras already looking forward for the anti-crash system, 1 looking back for reversing, and 2 more on the interior to monitor me paying attention. So all it needs is the rear one and 1 of the front ones feeding into a recording device - either on board or just an SD card.
For those who don't thing they want one... good luck proving it was the other guy and not you jumping the red light when you get T boned on a traffic light controlled crossing. Having been 0.5 seconds off my wife, daughter, dog and myself killed by some total and utter **** running a red light at 60mph+, it's nice to know there's some proof of who killed whom afterwards.
TBH they weren’t a thing until they were.
I do like a camera on the back of a bike on cars I’m not so sure, all the knob head extreme driving videos don’t really help.
As long as we’ve had cars on the road we’ve had ****s.
I’ve thought there are probably a couple of main reasons: that they’re illegal in some markets; that there isn’t enough demand for them to support the added cost; and that the many many people who drive like absolute cocks wouldn’t want them in their cars.
What I’d like to see by default is cameras for red light enforcement with ANPR for tax and insurance on all new traffic lights.
Bought a new VW and ordered it with the factory fitted VW dashcam front and rear. After a year it stopped working, they couldn't fix it, so fitted an aftermarket one. That works well enough, but is fixed to the windscreen with a sticky pad that falls off in hot weather.
What in the heck is a puddle lamp?
@johnhe I assume it’s the lights under the mirrors that light up the ground just outside the door.
I think DCS Andy Cox who’s got a national road safety remit has been campaigning for all cars to have dashcams but as above they’re illegal in some EU jurisdictions.
Lights that shine on the ground next to yhe car doors so that you can see what you’re stepping into when you get in or out. Usually in the bottom of the door or underneath the wing mirror.
Bizarrely on a KIA EV 6 they are under the edges of the rear spoiler and are functionally useless
I think I'd rather risk parking in a puddle than have a wing mirror full of gizmos that gets smashed to death by a close pass.
But I guess pretty much every mirror has gizmos in it now already. Oh well
Dashcams are illegal in some European cities. There's a real privacy/security issue in having an internet enabled camera watching everything. I have similar concerns for home security cameras. Who owns/accesses the feed and what detail is scraped from it?
A dumb camera that records to an SD card is the way to go I think. I would never have a car with integrated cameras.
First off I have a dashcam and have for a number of years. Reason being, that I heard various stories of insurance companies settling on knock for knock unless there was evidence.
Touch wood I've not had to use it for it's intended purpose yet.
As others have said most cars are built for Europe at least, if not the world. Dashcams are illegal in certain countries so I guess lots of companies don't bother, although as some have posted above say, some companies can enable the functionality for some £££
I guess it also allows dealers to upsell the fitting of aftermarket dashcams on a new car, so a nice direct little money earner for them.
What would be more useful is something like mandating a standard power source (USB-C?) next to every front mirror and rear screen. The life of a car means technology moves on, but a power source means you can fit what you want and change it if needed.
Because the manufacturers know that it would prevent sales to the significant minority who drive like utter bellends?
You can get a usb-c by the rear view mirror as an option on the Octavia...
https://www.skoda-auto.com/models/layers/layers/octavia-smart-technology
Do you people wanting dashcams in all cars also walk around with a GoPro strapped to your head just in case you have a near-death experience walking across a zebra crossing? 😉
Good point. Modern cars have so much superfluous junk anyway.
I must live in a different world, never had a dashcam and can't see why I would ever want one.
I'm not sure I even know anyone who has one.
Why do cars not have dashcams already fitted?
Because most people don’t pay to have them fitted now, so why should they be forced to? Because they are not mandated in European safety standards. Because some countries have privacy concerns about using them to effectively film random members of the public.
That is why.
I've got one after I nearly got wiped out by a woman pulling out of a T junction who apparently didn't see me, I was driving a Peugeot Expert van. How big do you need to be? She was heavily pregnant, (I genuinely thought she might go into labour after we stopped!) I think they're a good idea if you don't drive like a bell end and think you may incriminate yourself.
I think DCS Andy Cox who’s got a national road safety remit has been campaigning for all cars to have dashcams but as above they’re illegal in some EU jurisdictions.
Would be easy to implement, just make it a type approval requirement like tyre pressure monitoring, ABS brakes and air bags. Doesn't matter what other countries want then.
What are some of you doing that you see them as a necessity
Driving on the roads with the dishonest.
Be it crash for cash or the crash and change story.
When it comes to money people will do anything it seems.
Hell even on here I've witnessed folks change their story when it's been pointed out they have been a bit of an idiot
A number of
There’s a real privacy/security issue in having an internet enabled camera watching everything. I have similar concerns for home security cameras.
Interesting point. Home cameras have to be set so that they can't record anything outside the owner's property, or if they can, must be registered with the Information Commissioner - even though it's fairly obvious who owns them and what they can see. Whereas dashcams, which can film anywhere, have no restrictions.
I have both. When there was a disturbance further down our road, a police officer asked if she could look at our camera footage, and I had to tell her there was nothing outside our garden, for legal reasons.
My car (Vauxhall Combo Life) has a front camera that detects the stripes on the road, road signs, obstacles etc. There must be feed for it somewhere, but I have no idea how to access it. Similarly it has a rear facing camera built in, but not for dashcam duties.
I drive and ride on the road on a daily basis. I've never thought about getting a camera or even really given it much thought until opening this thread. I've had a few close passes and near misses. There have always been and will always be a minority of absolute ****s out there. I'm not sure that necessitates all cars to come with cameras.
my old BMW ix3 had a drive recorder which constantly recorded the last 30-40 seconds on its 4 cameras. If you wanted to save it then you pressed the button on the centre console. In the event of a crash it would automatically record .
They do come in handy , I was following someone in a van up a road on a business park a couple of weeks ago . One of my clients employees was coming down in the opposite direction, pulled up and over as far as she could to let the van past. Van didn't slow down and took the mirror clean off the stationary vehicle. I'd caught it all on my dashcam, so when the dick in the van tried to blame her for driving in to him, I was able show her boss exactly what had happened.
Interesting point. Home cameras have to be set so that they can’t record anything outside the owner’s property, or if they can, must be registered with the Information Commissioner
really?
given photography in public places is permissible what’re the different rules for CCTV?
I was very surprised when a friend described how they had paid to have cameras installed in their car to record their driving experiences. Struck me as expensive and bizarre.
our car has cameras already installed and recording all the time. Only utility so far has been sharing random 20mph zone overtaking events with our MP. To no effect at all.
Interesting point. Home cameras have to be set so that they can’t record anything outside the owner’s property, or if they can, must be registered with the Information Commissioner
really
No it's not true.
They have guidance you should follow and they can enforce but in their own.words "are unlikely to pursue a privately owned camera.
our car has cameras already installed and recording all the time. Only utility so far has been sharing random 20mph zone overtaking events with our MP. To no effect at all.
I've often wondered who actually does that.
I've downloaded 2 events off my cameras in 10 years.
1 a chap cutting a corner and nearly meeting his maker with a 3.5 ton fully laden iveco.
2 proving I made two separate visits to a private carpark on one day to fight a fine.
One of the most bizarre and ironic things I have observed about dash cams is that they often tend to be installed in the cars of some of the most careless and inconsiderate drivers on the road.
I speak as both a roadie and car driver.
*I am not saying everyone with a dash cam is bad - it’s just quite surprising how willing some people are to capture their inability to drive safely or legally.
Agree with the above.
Plus they dont stop you crashing in to someone, or stop them crashing in to you , which I would have thought is the crucial bit rather than having a nice little keep sake video
why do cars not have automatic speed limiters already fitted? Tech is readily available.
I'd have thought the crucial bit would be having evidence to refute a 50-50 insurance claim surely?
One EV I looked at today had cameras instead of wing mirrors with silly massive screens inside the cabin that were harder to look at than actual mirrors, why would anyone want that? - still no dashcam though. I guess it must be a privacy thing as several people mentioned early on in the thread.
As for puddle lights they are nothing new, I've had them on loads of cars - my old 04 plate Mondeo estate had them.
sgn23
why do cars not have automatic speed limiters already fitted? Tech is readily available.
Like many things... no political will - the Daily Heil would be up in arms about the infringement of liberty (the same Daily Heil that is supportive of the current land ownership model in Britain and the infringement of normal people's right to land that was common use for millenia).
What IS needed is a massive stiffening up of the basic skills requirements to be allowed to drive to begin with. But... again no political will to.
Most unusual one I've seen was a near-neighbour / acquaintance. He was pootling along in his Micra to the shops when suddenly a caravan headed his way, pointy end 1st, not attached (any more) to any other vehicle, on his side of the road at 30mph. Which hit him, obliterate the caravan, and caused his car to overturn. Gyypos hadn't connected the caravan hitch to the fair ground truck properly, and of course no safety cable in sight either.
Try explaining that event to the insurance without video, and they'd thing you'd been smoking something illegal.
The dash cam video was rather helpful.
You can get a usb-c by the rear view mirror as an option on the Octavia…
Yep, mine has that, still got to get a dash cam that fits it, any suggestions?
I’d have thought the crucial bit would be having evidence to refute a 50-50 insurance claim surely?
How much does a dash cam cost? That is a definite upfront cost with a lifetime of what 3-5 yrs?
how many insurance claims do you make in that time period typically?
how many of them are settled 50:50, wrongly?
how many of those would the dash cam actually prevent (they aren’t typically 360 deg, great quality at night etc).
Obviously no claim that would have been settled 50:50 would even be 100% against you with a camera, right? Because we are all perfect drivers, right!
if a claim is settled against you 50:50 what is the likely cost?
I’m not sure an economist would be convinced it’s a value for money purchase. A marketeer might believe the emotional argument though…
It comes as standard with Tesla cars, 4 cameras constantly active (if you've chosen to turn it on), 7 cameras to view, with a usb stick in the glove compartment /centre console (most recent video is also stored on the car info memory) . You can take video shots whilst in the car if something happens around you or it will take video when the car is parked if someone stands by the car, pulls the door handle or the car is hit. Because it's constantly live the footage will have the event in the middle of the video shot. Not sure how sensitive it is these days but 5 years ago you'd come back to the car with possibly a tonne of events videoed, but you would only be interested in viewing anything if something had actually happened to the car, otherwise you'd just delete them all or they auto delete after a period of time. Youtube is full of Tesla cam/ sentry mode videos (usually of fat Americans keying the car in Walmart car parks). You can also view all the cameras on your phone, so for example when it's in the garage you're constantly getting notifications when the car is moved, tyres have been deflated, doors opened, boot opened etc and you can view live what's going on via the cameras. The cameras are high res, so the footage is usually good quality, not so in rain at night. The cost is about 5% of the battery per 24hrs, it turns sentry mode off if the state of charge is below 20%. When it's activated whilst locked, the lights flash and a warning message displays on the big screen.
What they said ^ Tesla sorted this out ages ago, works seamlessly.
The footage from my Colleague's Tesla when a taxi failed to notice the stationary traffic on the M25 and hit him at 50mph was absolutely astonishing.
How much does a dash cam cost? That is a definite upfront cost with a lifetime of what 3-5 yrs?
about 60 quid.
our original one is on its second car and is now 10 years old.
Footage from it is still fine for the purposes i need it . yes it wont pick up a crystal clear number plate at 100 yards in the dark.... but it will show a chain of events.
one incident against you on your insurance could be 1K + on your premium over the next 3-5 years pending company and car.
I wxpected insurance companies to push fir cameras by offering discounts. Im suprised it has not happened
it was a thing - the discount I got about 9 years ago was enough to pay for a cheapy camera on ebay. When my wife got into a minor accident I tried to pull the footage only to find it hadn't recorded anything in the previous 18 month. oh well.
why do cars not have automatic speed limiters already fitted?
no political will
Much more importantly, no public appetite.
Tech is readily available.
Only in the same sense that tech for self drive cars is readily available - there are just substantial practical problems in making it work in reality.
why do cars not have automatic speed limiters already fitted?
Ebikes have speed limiters and look how many people get that overridden... learn how to chip speed restricted cars and you could be a millionaire in a few months! (if it was made a thing, that is)
Lack of puddle light is such a 1st world problem. I'm not sure how we all sleep at night knowing our vehicles don't have them.
why do cars not have automatic speed limiters already fitted?
The tech is not ready! My 2020 car has speed limit recognition, which works... much of the time. It has (more than once) spent a good 45 minutes on the M4 thinking the speed limit is 30mph because it missed a sign. It's convinced the street I live on is no-entry, and shows a little warning every time I drive home.
Fortunately it doesn't act on any of this, but I remember an STWer saying their fancy car hit the brakes on a motorway because it thought the speed limit signs on a nearby parallel road applied. This stuff needs to be bulletproof before they roll it out more widely!
speed limiters are already a mandatory thing in europe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/news/mandatory-speed-limiters-on-uk-cars-from-2022
it cqn be disabled/overridden, I suspect it'll become law in the UK at some point
From that Autotrader article - sounds good to me :
1. The driver’s foot will be gently pushed back
2. The speed control system will automatically reduce the propulsion power, but you can override the system easily by pushing the pedal again
3. The driver will be sent a flashing visual signal to point out you’re speeding. If you continue to drive over the limit, an audio cue will be activated; if you ignore this as well, both visual and audio cues will be used after which both cues will time-out
4. Similar to the third option, the driver will first be sent a visual cue. If you ignore it, the pedal will vibrate. If you keep ignoring the combined signals, they will eventually time out
about 60 quid.
our original one is on its second car and is now 10 years old.
Footage from it is still fine for the purposes i need it . yes it wont pick up a crystal clear number plate at 100 yards in the dark…. but it will show a chain of events.
one incident against you on your insurance could be 1K + on your premium over the next 3-5 years pending company and car.
and in those 10 years has it saved you any money? Because in the last 10 years I’ve not had any motoring claims, and within my immediate friends and family - I’ve only heard of one case go 50/50 when the driver was convinced they had done nothing wrong. A dashcam might have solved that dispute - but knowing that driver it wouldn’t surprise me if it showed they were more at fault than they thought! But that’s 1 of perhaps a dozen claims that were “unclear”, from hundreds of years of insurance history.
and in those 10 years has it saved you any money?
I just think of it as a little insurance policy addition, hope it'll never be needed, but I still have one. I've not made an insurance claim either, but always get fully comprehensive rather than just the required 3rd party. That's my choice, yours is just as valid.
Although no claims, I have made a couple of reports to the police after it caught some absolutely shocking driving behaviour. Both times driving the wrong side of the carriageway to avoid a traffic cue, (queue - edit in before the pendants) the second one went through a red light on the wrong side too!
and in those 10 years has it saved you any money? Because in the last 10 years I’ve not had any motoring claims
does it need to have ? small price to pay for certainty when its required.
and if it shows me at fault in the incident - then thats just as valid a view point as showing me right - it saves a shit load of phonecalls and arguments with insurance companies .
have you ever had to make a claim against a third party ? its not much fun
My car has the logo shine on the ground when I open the door. Just assumed it was some flash extra to try to look 'cool' (it doesn't). Didn't know it's purpose was to stop me jumping out into a puddle.
I'm genuinely staggered I've managed to last this long with cars that didn't have this critical safety feature.
As for dash cams. I assume its because, For every safe drive that wants one, there will be some baw bag idiot driver that would not want to be incriminating themselves at every opportunity
Because in the last 10 years I’ve not had any motoring claims
and yet, all that insurance money you've paid out... that's all a dashcam is - another form of insurance. I have one on the bike, not in the car. Thankfully I haven't needed to send the footage to insurers in the 10years I've been using cams. But if the time came that it was useful, I'd be glad I had it.
For every safe drive that wants one, there will be some baw bag idiot driver
Ah but don't around 80%. of drivers think they're "above average" so the (self identifying) bawbag idiots would be a small fraction of the overall market . Though obvs the creme de la creme of driving gods sees no need for such things, so that probably takes care of half of that "above average" 80%.
Like many forms of insurance you don't really need it until TSHTF, but by then it's too late to reassess your decision.
Fortunately it doesn’t act on any of this, but I remember an STWer saying their fancy car hit the brakes on a motorway because it thought the speed limit signs on a nearby parallel road applied. This stuff needs to be bulletproof before they roll it out more widely!
Yeah I'm not convinced about this stuff. Only the other day I had my cruise control set at 20 as I was in a 20 zone. As we exited the 20 zone the car rapidly (and automatically) accelerated up to the new speed limit, which the car thought was 40. Which confused me somewhat as I was 99% convinced I'd just driven past a 30 sign. Anyways, I braked and continued at 30 but the car still told me the speed limit for the road was a 40.
Googled it afterwards..I was definitely in a 30 zone.
The nay-sayers - "I've not needed one in ten years" 😀
I've not claimed on my insurance in ten years. But it only takes one muppet to cast doubt and claim YOU were in the wrong and the whole process becomes a long, drawn out ballache.
Hundred quid. Peace of mind. But like any gadget, keep on top of the firmware updates and format your SD card once a month.
One of the most bizarre and ironic things I have observed about dash cams is that they often tend to be installed in the cars of some of the most careless and inconsiderate drivers on the road.
It why the term DCW was coined. It’s almost as if cammers create avoidable situation to ensure they get value out of the investment they’ve made. YT has many many clips of cammers showing how bad a driver they are while asserting the other driver(s) are in the wrong. Fun way to burn an hour.
If you continue to drive over the limit, an audio cue will be activated
Lots of cars in Japan have these, if you carry on over the speed limit, it gets increasingly louder and more frequent, it's fantastically annoying.
it’s fantastically annoying.
Annoying for whom? the idiot who insists on driving at 40pmph in a 30mph zone?
I wish all cars had them and could issue fines for persistent speeding/tailgating.
it only takes one muppet to cast doubt and claim YOU were in the wrong and the whole process becomes a long, drawn out ballache.
It's a terrible thing to live in fear.
I don't think he is in denial. I think, like me, he thinks it is unlikely to happen and if it does, the other party won't necessarily be a dick. I still sometimes leave the house without locking the door. Other people monitor their house like it is a prison wing.
why do cars not have automatic speed limiters already fitted?
Because it’s not speed that kills, it’s the muppet driving the car, so as long as muppets are allowed to drive cars accidents will happen, speed limits and cameras will make no difference