[Closed] Why did Better Together choose a Londoner to lead them?

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Of course. The English are to blame. It really is that simple.

Can't say it really matters which ever way the vote goes....

meh.

I assume that he will be living in Scotland on the requisite date, and therefore qualifies as Scottish for the purposes of this referendum and has a vote.
Is he not 'Scottish' enough for you?
What is your criteria?

Anyone would think we don't really want you to stay.

From Wikipedia. Sounds pretty Scottish in ancestry and life to me.

Alistair Darling was born in London[2] the son of a civil engineer, Thomas, and his wife, Anna MacLean. He is the great-nephew of Sir William Darling, a Conservative-Unionist Member of Parliament for Edinburgh South (1945–1957). He was educated in Kirkcaldy, and the independent Loretto School,[3] in Musselburgh, then attended the University of Aberdeen where he was awarded a Bachelor of Laws (LL.B). He became the President of Aberdeen University Students' Representative Council.

Before joining the Labour Party at the age of 23 in 1977, Darling was a supporter of the International Marxist Group, the British section of the Trotskyist Fourth International.[4] He became a solicitor in 1978, then changed course for the Scots bar and was admitted as an advocate in 1984. He was elected as a councillor to the Lothian Regional Council in 1982 where he supported large rates rises in defiance of Margaret Thatcher's rate-capping laws and even threatened not to set a rate at all.[4] He served on the council until he was elected to Parliament. He was also a board member for the Lothian and Borders Police and became a governor of Napier College in 1985 for two years.

Hmmm - Good point up there. I wonder if he does actually spend enough time in Scotland to qualify as a resident here, or whether he qualifies some other way. Given how much time he must spend in Westminster.

My criteria do not matter, I just thought it was funny that Better Together had chosen someone born in London to lead them.

Is he not Scottish enough wanmankylung? I don't know why I get drawn into a response on this.
They say you should not get drawn into an argument with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.

Alistair Darling was born in London[2] the son of a civil engineer, Thomas, and his wife, Anna MacLean. He is the great-nephew of Sir William Darling, a Conservative-Unionist Member of Parliament for Edinburgh South (1945–1957). He was educated in Kirkcaldy, and the independent Loretto School,[3] in Musselburgh, then attended the University of Aberdeen where he was awarded a Bachelor of Laws (LL.B). He became the President of Aberdeen University Students' Representative Council.

Born in London,
Educated in Kirkcaldy - when did his family move to Scotland?
Went to Loretto school - not exactly a poor man's school. Now wonder he doesn't have a clue.

 

So lets make this clear. If his name was Scotty McScottish, winner of the Most Scottish Scotsman in the Vale of the Scots for ten years in a row and only wore a kilt and every five minutes stopped to either dance or toss some cabers and had "Take the High Road" on loop everywhere he went and had tattooes of the Saltire on each bum cheek he still wouldn't be Scottish enough for you because of where his mother gave birth?

😀

Pretty much. 😀

^ you have to remember that people are campaigning for a Yes vote because they have a vision of a fairer, more equitable society & not because of an envious small-minded parochialism.

^ you have to remember that people are campaigning for a Yes vote because they have a vision of a fairer, more equitable society & not because of an envious small-minded parochialism.

Some people are. Some others are just taking the piss. My point is this - Better Together could have got someone in whose Scottish credentials and background aligned more with the people they are wanting to vote their way.

Better Together could have got someone in whose Scottish credentials and background aligned more with the people they are wanting to vote their way.

What are you? Some sort of Scottish supremicist?
To try to align supporting the UK with the BNP and then say that the leader of better together is not really Scottish enough really is taking the p**s!

Who is your hero Nigel Farage?

Born in Malta, considers Hong Kong as 'home'.
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Born and raised in London.
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American draft dodger.
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imnotverygood - Member
^ you have to remember that people are campaigning for a Yes vote because they have a vision of a fairer, more equitable society & not because of an envious small-minded parochialism.

My point is

Dying on its arse I'm afraid. Bet you wish you hadn't posted. Cynic-al will reject your big hitter application if he sees this thread. 😯

^ you have to remember that people are campaigning for a Yes vote because they have a vision of a fairer, more equitable society & not because of an envious small-minded parochialism

Went to Loretto school - not exactly a poor man's school. Now wonder he doesn't have a clue.

You don't really know what point you're trying to make with this thread, do you ?

You thought it was going to be about where he was born but with the way the thread is going you now seem to think it's about which Scottish school he went to.

You just can't make up your mind, can you ?

Let me spell it out to you ernie_lynch - his background and upbringing give him absolutely no empathy whatsoever with the people whose vote he is trying to gain. My thread was spelling this out.

Gordon Brown or Charles Kennedy might have been better options. 😉

Right, so you can only understand Scottish people if you are born in Scotland? Keep digging....

No one has managed to explain how that us going to happen!

On the Great Day Of Freedom unicorns are going to descend from the clouds and start shitting rainbows.

They might also have some idea of what currency Scotland will have to use.

And none of it will be the fault of those dirty Tory English Bastids who are English and Tory.

his background and upbringing give him absolutely no empathy whatsoever with the people whose vote he is trying to gain.

I see, it's got nothing to do with where he was born then, it's his background and upbringing - which is Scottish, that bothers you.

So why mention that he was born in London then ?

Right, so you can only understand Scottish people if you are born in Scotland? Keep digging....

That's not what I said. Go on - quote me using a full sentence if you can find anywhere that I've said that.

So why mention that he was born in London then ?

Because I think it is funny.

wanmankylung - Member
Let me spell it out to you ernie_lynch - his background and upbringing give him absolutely no empathy whatsoever with the people whose vote he is trying to gain. My thread was spelling this out.
POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Erm nope!

ps Did anyone else initially mistake the better together 'no' posters for anti wind farm signs 😳

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Because I think it is funny.

I see.

Is this what they call "the Edinburgh Defence" ?

I really couldn't care less where he was born - what matters is what's right for the people who live in Scotland, whatever their background.

Who are "they"?

Swingometer points right. Then comes Salmond's last questionL
"So where were ya born ya bastard?!"
Swingometer swings left!

wanmankylung - Member
Who are "they"?

Would you like me to hand you a bigger spade?

bencooper - Member

I really couldn't care less where he was born

But isn't that because you were born in England ? You English always stick together. Isn't that right wanmankylung ?

But isn't that because you were born in England ?

Nope, born in Glasgow.

You English always stick together.

If there's one thing that really, really annoys me about living in a Scotland it's the occasional person who thinks I'm not Scottish enough for them.

Ben - there is a major difference between saying that someone is not Scottish enough and saying that someone's background is unlikely to lead to a reasonable degree of empathy with the people of Scotland.

there is a major difference between saying that someone is not Scottish enough and saying that someone's background is unlikely to lead to a reasonable degree of empathy with the people of Scotland

Yes. Obviously that is why the title of this thread is: 'Why did Better Together choose someone educated at the Loretto School.'

Some people are. Some others are just taking the piss. My point is this - Better Together could have got someone in whose Scottish credentials and background aligned more with the people they are wanting to vote their way.

I still want to know who OP was previously on here.

someone's background is unlikely to lead to a reasonable degree of empathy with the people of Scotland

So you're suggesting the existence of some sort of public school acquired autism.

Nope, born in Glasgow.

Sorry it's your missus that is English born. Thought it was you.

bencooper - Member
If there's one thing that really, really annoys me about living in a Scotland it's the occasional person who thinks I'm not Scottish enough for them.

Indeed. For the first few years of my life I completely considered myself Scottish. Fortunately I was eventually put right and informed that being born in Scotland, living my whole life here and knowing it was my home didn't make me Scottish, because my parents are English.

Since that day my national identity has become more complex and rests on being British as much as being Scottish. I still don't consider myself English though, despite what I was told.

Thankfully I've not had that sort of thing said to me for a long time now, but such events were quite a formative experience and still have an effect on my opinions about Scottish nationalism. Which is annoying because I'd like to be able to consider the debate more rationally than I probably can.

Love the anti-certain schools. Quality [s]reverse snobbery[/s]debate there.

At least Loretto must have better Highers Econ teachers than Linlithgow Academy. Darling understands how a balance sheet works.

Why did yS chose a man who has little empathy with the fairer sex?

wanmankylung - Member

Ben - there is a major difference between saying that someone is not Scottish enough and saying that someone's background is unlikely to lead to a reasonable degree of empathy with the people of Scotland.

My point is this - Better Together could have got someone in whose Scottish credentials and background aligned more with the people they are wanting to vote their way.

Since that day my national identity has become more complex and rests on being British as much as being Scottish. I still don't consider myself English though, despite what I was told.

Yes, though I have the added complication of being an American dual national as well. For me, identity is different to nationality, and neither is much connected to whether I think a Scotland should be independent.

Maybe wanetc, Would have only been happy with a parochial person who had never left Glen Mcboggle?

one is racist and the other is "class war", it's all in the nuance

It might be "class war" in the infantile trotskyite sense of the term, but it is precisely because independence as it is being proposed does not serve the interests of working people which makes it a pointless counterproductive exercise.

If it served the class interests of Scottish people and of those of working people throughout Britain then it would worth supporting, imo.

Racism is a divisive destructive ideology, class consciousness is vital if ordinary working people are to be empowered.

If it served the class interests of Scottish people and of those of working people throughout Britain then it would worth supporting, imo.

I agree with this.

Racism is a divisive destructive ideology, class consciousness is vital if ordinary working people are to be empowered.

class consciousness pigeon holes people and creates them and us, the very thing that reduces social mobility

+1

I'm not interested in social mobility ! Well not in the context which it is generally offered.

There is no point giving working people a leg up to the ruling circle if everyone else stays at the bottom of the ladder.

And every leg up requires someone else to be pushed down. The solution isn't to rearrange the seating so that someone else/different sits at the top table, it's to provide everyone with significant roles and rewards in society. Without either privilege or denial of basic rights.

Off to a kibbutz then Ernie !?! 😉

At least Loretto must have better Highers Econ teachers than Linlithgow Academy. Darling understands how a balance sheet works.

big_n_daft - Member

class consciousness pigeon holes people and creates them and us, the very thing that reduces social mobility

Class consciousness is an inherent part of human nature.
It doesn't create anything.
It is not inherently good or bad.

And English people pretending to be Scottish is not always funny.
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So stop it.

Ronnie Corbett is Scottish !

Class consciousness is an inherent part of human nature.

Of course it isn't.

ernie_lynch - Member

Ronnie Corbett is Scottish !

I know.
And Ronnie Barker is funny.
😐
I should have posted a picture of Russ Abbott really.
🙂

Of course it isn't.

All animals are aware of their status and power in relation to those around them, how that power can affect them, and how far and when the boundaries should be pushed.

Call it what you like, it's part of us.

erm, ok

"Class consciousness is an inherent part of human nature."

class is a natural phenomenon and not a social construct? really?

Yes, though I have the added complication of being an American dual national as well. For me, identity is different to nationality, and neither is much connected to whether I think a Scotland should be independent.

Sadly it matters to some, albeit a tiny minority.

One individual I know refers to everyone who doesn't meet the standards as "not of this land" and wants them all to "go home" among many many other things.

I'd be offended if I didn't pity the person in question so much. The level of bitterness and bigotry said person has to live with must make life a bit shit.

The only depressing thing is said individual is not the only example of that type of behaviour I've encountered. What I will say is that it's no worse than in England, it's just that it's me on the receiving end instead of some other foreign type.

I should have posted a picture of Russ Abbott really.

Oh crap, I though he was real. Who do you think I was gonna model my image on in the event of a yes vote so I fit in. 😡

konabunny - Member

class is a natural phenomenon and not a social construct? really?

Class may well be a social construct - the consciousness of how we fit into the word around us and how the perceived status and power of others affects our lives is not.
🙂

Should the OP not have started the thread with "now I'm not racist"? Though better would have been "now I'm not a simple bigoted Scottishista but". What a pity that those that want a yes vote have those like the OP undermining their arguments.

Bigotry will be reserved for a Free (cheap) Yorkshire! In a free Yorkshire it's not yer class, yer house or yer car but size of yer bank account (mattress) that sets you apart.

Sadly it matters to some, albeit a tiny minority.

Yes. I think it's a reaction to what they perceive as being second-class citizens. It's the same attitude that blames "the English" for everything. My hope is that independence will help with that kind of attitude in the long run.

You have got to be joking. Post any successful Yes vote bigots won't stop being bigots. Everything will still be the fault of the English, if that's who they previously blamed.

Bigots who choose scapegoats to blame everything on are never satisfied.

Or do you really believe that in a separate Scotland no one will ever have anything to moan about ? In which case I'm deeply impressed by your faith. Will the problem of climate change have been resolved ?

Oh sure, there will still be idiots - and of course there's the whole sectarian thing which needs tackling. But without the excuse of being "ruled by the English" there will be less justification for that kind of view.

The interesting and wonderful thing about this referendum is how much it's engaging with people who never normally bother to vote. Radical Independence have been doing sterling work in the poorer areas, and signing up people at job centres to vote and things like that. For a change, people think their vote actually matters so they're getting engaged with politics - hopefully that engagement will continue after the referendum.

But without the excuse of being "ruled by the English" there will be less justification for that kind of view.

You're suggesting rational thinking on the part of bigots/racists 😀 Have you ever met one ?

It's probably going to be even worse. The English will be accused of deliberately damaging Scotland - every problem associated with Scotland being separated from the rest of the UK will be the fault of the English. Among other things Scotland will be economically dependent on its huge neighbour, and just to rub it in there will be a picture of the queen on bank notes which people use everyday to remind them. Scots won't even get a vote on real issues which effect them. How unfair will that be ffs ?!

And of course the English will still be crossing the border settling down marrying people etc.

Good luck if you think la-la land will be bigot-free.

Oh sure, there will still be idiots - and of course there's the whole sectarian thing which needs tackling. But without the excuse of being "ruled by the English" there will be less justification for that kind of view.

In your previous football team line up ben why were these 'idiots' not represented on the yes team? You were at pains to put the BNP on the no side?

I can see it will be hard to win an argumemt where the UK is apparently to blame for Scottish bigots.

Any divorce will be messy and Salmond has a scapegoat for some time to come. When he tried to get Darling to back him in the TV debate I thought he was going to say "kneel before me and kiss my ring Darling"

Nice to see rUK being referred to as The English...

Fortunately I was eventually put right and informed that being born in Scotland, living my whole life here and knowing it was my home didn't make me Scottish, because my parents are English

Growing up in England with one Welsh parent I was reliably informed that I was Welsh. However on going to uni I was equally informed that I was English. Now after living in Wales for a long time I'm not at all sure. No-one wants me it seems 🙂

Well we love you 😀

In your previous football team line up ben why were these 'idiots' not represented on the yes team?

Because they haven't organised themselves into an organisation and registered with the Electoral Commission.

I definitely don't think everything will be rosy after independence, but I think standing on our own feet, bring responsible for our own decisions and mistakes, will be good for the national psyche.

I definitely don't think everything will be rosy after independence, but I think standing on our own feet, bring responsible for our own decisions and mistakes, will be good for the national psyche.

It will certainly be interesting to see how well Scotland does vs rUK....

kneel before me and kiss my ring Darling

I think he needs to kneel behind him for that

A ridiculous post for the op and subsequent attempts to defend it. A view not born out in Scotland I'd say as the majority bar the most rabid bigots are happy that anyone with residency gets a vote(as it should be)

piemonster - Member

kneel before me and kiss my ring Darling

I think he needs to kneel behind him for that

bearnecessities: the OP on there is the artist formerly known as glupton, amongst other handles. I thought everybody knew that ? Are you banned George ?? Surely not !!

Hels - what are you talking about? My name is Joe.

It was a crafty plan to draw people like yourself from the woodwork.. they hoped intelligent yes voters would think twice about aligning themselves with people like you 😉