I have spent many hours of late looking at autotrader and ebay, as I browse for our next vehicle. In the process, I have seen some remarkably highly-rated sellers whom I have then researched elsewhere out of a sense of suspicion.
A good number of these have somehow managed to get high seller ratings on autotrader, but upon closer examination, have entire social media pages set up to denounce them. The latter often contain horror stories of people stuck for thousands of pounds of repairs, or of claims being made in court, or whatever.
The question is: how is it beneficial to such traders to be so scummy? I mean, my own brother just won a case against such a trader who was forced to compensate him to the tune of thousands - not only for the faulty vehicle, but also for his time and costs. Surely, it is easier and more profitable to be honest than to have to field hundreds of phone calls, pay out on complaints, attend court, shut up shop and re-open under a new name, or whatever...
How and why do such places exist? They seem awfully numerous.
I can only imagine people who actually chase all the way to them having to pay out thousands are in the minority.
If you look hard enough you will find issues with all companies. I know people refer to Arnold Clark as Arnold Shark, horror stories all over the internet about them. My last 5 cars have all be from them and have all be faultless. I've not had a single issue to speak to them about. But its probably the case that I (and the thousands of other happy customers) don't shout about that as much as the minority of really unhappy customers.
Why can’t they just be honest? (auto dealers content)
Because people can be dicks when it comes to pound coins. Car dealers do seem [i]especially[/i] unscrupulous though.
I think one problem is cars are very capable of being fine one day and blowing up the next.
It's an interesting point; unhappy customers are much more likely to be activist about their experience, but I don't know how you find out what percentage of the total they are. I have a Focus with the Ecoboost engine; if you look at the Facebook group, it's full of stories from people whose Ecobbost engines have failed and who have had no recognition from Ford, but what the odds are on my engine going the same way, I have no idea. All I can do is make sure it's properly maintained, with oil that meets Ford's spec.
Caught this thread on Pistonheads....
Looks like it applies throughout the industry!
A mate of mine had trouble with an Aston Martin he'd bought with an inheritance (plan was to run it a couple of years & then sell it on) he did the return to dealer & hand back the keys thing in an attempt to get a refund as it was mis-described, dealers went into liquidation on him 😕
I think the main reasons are ...
Many people won't go back and be like a dog to a bone. Especially people who can't afford legal advice and work every hour to make ends meet.
This to some extent leads to not giving a shit so many dealers are selling it as blind as you're buying it. It might be good/bad or indifferent being in near perfect condition or barely likely to get you home and it makes no difference to them really so they aren't covering something up per-se as much as just don't make an effort.
Then there are the less scrupulous who know it's a lemon and disguise it. Again though the worst case isn't so bad and it's probably only a low percent who fully pursue it.
I've done the whole thing through small claims personally (on a car I didn't want to buy but OH decided she did)... Turbo died after 2 weeks ... they "repaired it" without following the TSB ... blah blah ... until we ended up in small claims.
Quite honestly a lot of time spent .. both presenting a case for the magistrate and documenting it and learning the process. TBH it would have been quicker and much easier to trade it in after they did a botched turbo rebuild and make it another dealers problem.
Don't think the car industry is any different from others in this regards....plenty of shisters out there looking to shaft people in all industries and on all fronts. The car market is booming at the moment so alot of opportunity for people like that to exploit this market.
Also you only ever hear about people who feel they've been hard done by...people who have had no issues or received good service rarely spend much time or effort to go out and promulgate their experience to anybody and everybody, so we all get a distorted view...the reality is the number of satisfied, or at least agnostic, customers out there massively outnumber those who have been ripped off or provided an unfair account of what's gone on.
Just like anything wether it be cars, houses, finance products then its buyer beware...do your research and satisfy yourself the product or vendor is good, but there is always some risk on behalf of the buyer.
Where do you think small car dealers get their stock from? Ill tell you, auctions! Why do people sell cars at auctions? Ill tell you, its usually because there is something wrong with it that would make it hard to sell elsewhere.
Nowt wrong with buying a car with something wrong with it so long as you know there is something wrong with it. Plenty of bargains to be had if you're not shy of a jack and socket set and have the time and inclination to work on a car yourself. Most people just want to buy their cars like they do washing machines so want something that works and isn't just about to fall apart on them 5 miles down the road from the dealer. You want a risk free life then you need to pay for it...buy new cars covered under warranty is the only risk free way of buying a car.
Half the time even the dealers themselves don't know the car that well, they're often just flipping the car...either a trade in or a batch of cars they have got from an auction or an old fleet of company cars or cars from a car rental company...they just want to tidy them up and flip them as quickly as possible...they're making naff all profit per car so need to sell alot of cars to make any money, so often have no clue whatsoever as to the state of the car. They're not going to spend any time at all inspecting the car for faults over and above the usual MOT stuff and so long as the paperwork is there and if its generally in good nick, they'll bang it on the forecourt with a short warranty period. They're making a few hundred quid per car profit at the most, and if its on the forecourt for more than a month then that is sunk in costs and overheads and they make no profit on the car at all.
Also what you can't regulate for is the unrealistic expectations of customers. My brother in law owns a used car dealership and often gets people coming in looking for a three or four previous owner £4k run around expecting a full on premium car dealership service, and when they don't get it they kick up a fuss and complain on the internet.
wobbliscott
Also what you can’t regulate for is the unrealistic expectations of customers. My brother in law owns a used car dealership and often gets people coming in looking for a three or four previous owner £4k run around expecting a full on premium car dealership service, and when they don’t get it they kick up a fuss and complain on the internet.
I think perhaps it's ironic the internet is what eroded the margins that mean they can't really give a shit when they flip a car. Next to impossible for them to spend money on a car and sell it cheaper than some dealer down the road or even miles away.
Nowt wrong with buying a car with something wrong with it so long as you know there is something wrong with it. Plenty of bargains to be had if you’re not shy of a jack and socket set and have the time and inclination to work on a car yourself.
So true.
I bought a Peugeot Bipper 62 plate van in July. High mileage, it was absolutely filthy.One front spring was broken, gearchange was awful, lots of other minor faults.
Paid £750 for it, spent £400 and a few days labour repairing it, not had a problem in the 3000 miles since. It's worth at least £2k now.
Paid £750 for it, spent £400 and a few days labour repairing it, not had a problem in the 3000 miles since. It’s worth at least £2k now.
Great that you got a vehicle that you are happy with, and also had the skills, tools and time to fix up. But I wouldn't say that you have got yourself a particular bargain.
£750
+
£400
+
(4 x £250)
= £2,150
Not a criticism, and it is good that people are willing to, and enjoy repairing cars, just you could have spent £2k and done something else for a few days.
Everyone's priorities in life are different.
I worked with car dealers for three years.
Almost everyone I asked said all customers are liers.
If everyone you talk to lies to you about everything you ask them I thing it really does warp people in the motor trade.
If you have ever traded a car in, were you 100% straight?
If you were, have all you friends and co workers? A coworker had a car, it had a fault. She got the fault cleared and traded it in before the fault code came up again. She was asked if there was anything wrong with it "no". So that car has gone off into the trade somewhere. Someone had bought a 3 year old car with an expensive fault lurking. It will have shown up inside 50 miles. Who will the customer point the finger at- the dealer. The dealer will not have investigated it with a fine tooth comb or driven it. My co worker in all other aspects seems totally nice and trustworthy.
So why aren't dealers straight? Because the get cars like this in and have to deal with the fall out with no cash in the sale to fix it.
When one head office bod came into one of the dealers I worked with, he looked at how much the sales staff were making and asked- how are these guys eating.
Several car sales people wouldn't admit what they did for a living in social situations, because of the reactions of some people.
Some folk might be bastard's. Some are perfectly nice and circumstances make them look bad.
Good post trail rat. Dealers ha e to be defensive, as everyone else is. If there's any wiggle room with a subjective fault (e.g. worn engine mounts...!) they will wiggle.
The only place I have ever had a good feeling about is the VW place in Cardiff.
If you have ever traded a car in, were you 100% straight?
Yup. Last time there was form to fill in that I went through with the guy from the service department followed by an inspection. It made no difference to the trade in price offered before they'd seen the car.
I've found the dealers and indies I've used competent and honest. Part luck and part walking out of ones where I don't like the vibe. A minor niggle was with a Peugeot salesman who sent me a written quote 500e higher than the verbal quote I'd haggled down to, I just bought a Dacia instead.
I very rarely change cars but had to do it recently when my van finally rusted to death. I spanner our own cars and know what's what.
It took weeks of checking MOT history and going looking at a few because I'm looking at older cheap stuff (I spent £2500). There is a lot of rusty tired crap with plenty of bumper and tire shine out there.
VW place in Cardiff.
Sinclairs? Think my mums cousin has kept them afloat changing his golf every 2 years for the past 40 years. Have to wonder why a salesman will happily sell a diesel to a customer every time when the trade in has only done about 10,000 miles
I do sometimes think that unhappy people are the most likely to create internet content about purchases, service etc.
The majority are likely happy enough but just don’t go online to tell everyone
Where do you think small car dealers get their stock from? Ill tell you, auctions! Why do people sell cars at auctions? Ill tell you, its usually because there is something wrong with it that would make it hard to sell elsewhere.
Not too far off the mark, often the issues are mostly cosmetic, stained upholstery and soiled carpets and boot, chipped and scratched paint, small but not intrusive chips on the windscreen, etc. a lot can be done with smart repairs, but major repairs are expensive, and it’s sometimes easier just to put a car into auction, where it’ll find a buyer who might well have access to his own facilities, and can do a respectable job, sell the car and still make a profit.
There will be plenty of others who want a low mileage car, that’s been mechanically well maintained but is a bit shabby, in particular ex-Motability cars, and longer term lease cars, which is going to be the family shopping, taxi, holiday car, with kids, the dog etc, where more stains, dirt and dings won’t make a bit of difference.
Some, like ex-Motability Partners and Berlingos, are very popular in Ireland as taxis, because, according to a driver I spoke to who was picking one up from work to take back to Ireland, in order to get a taxi license, the driver must have access to car suitable for disabled passengers, and most of those cars have ramps, etc, already fitted.
Wobbliscott has it right as well. We’ve got roughly 100 or so cars lined up ready to go out on transporters which have gone through a detailed inspection and quotation and been rejected, and it’s often difficult to see why, especially when you see the amount of work being carried out on cars in our workshops, but there’s a lot of cost/benefit analysis going on that clearly I don’t understand.
Sinclairs? Think my mums cousin has kept them afloat changing his golf every 2 years for the past 40 years. Have to wonder why a salesman will happily sell a diesel to a customer every time when the trade in has only done about 10,000 miles
No, I've kept them afloat buying spares and new stretch bolts and stuff. They were the first place I called when I decided I needed a new car before my holiday, they didn't have anything.
I'm afraid the industry, like so many others has had to be come very 'efficient' margins are tight and a dealer who has to pay out £2k to repair a car they sold will not only lose money on that car, but a couple more too.
I know a Car Supermarket owner quite well, they don't just scoop up cars at auction and plonk them on the forecourt with a £1k mark-up, they've got their own body shops, mechanics, wheel refurbers etc, also they only really get involved in 2-5 year old cars.
What they don't do, is much testing, there's just not time. Cars come in, they're up on the lift for leaks and a bit of a MOT test without the test, fix the scratches and dents and away it goes.
99% of modern cars almost never go wrong, not if they're less than 5 years old anyway, but when they do, it can be a massive problem, it's usually electrical, very expensive or both.
A 'good' dealer, who finds themselves in a position when they've sold a car with a serious fault, should offer to take it back, offer their customer a replacement and then repair the faulty car ready for another customer, but that's an expensive thing to do, especially if the customer has had it 6 months and 6k miles, it's not worth what it was 6 months previously. So they'll do almost anything to avoid it, deny there's a fault, then deny they're liable (wear and tear / user error etc) offer a cheap repair that'll hopefully last the remainder of the 'warranty') you will probably need to get a solicitor involved to sort it properly.
'My' Dealer client will take back cars, but they'll want to be sure it's their fault, and most people will always assume car dealers are dishonest so have no issue being dishonest themselves. So people bring back cars with 5 litres of Castrol's finest in the washer bottle "It was like that when I bought it" hatchbacks with knackered clutches that were re-mapped the day after they sold it and ragged around every McDonalds car park in the area and even people so ravaged by buyers remorse they'll sabotage their own cars to try to get rid so they're defensive.
It's interesting that two of the least-trusted professions - car dealers and estate agents - are associated with our most-expensive purchases.
I suppose we feel particularly miffed because of the sums of money involved.
It's also interesting that bike shops have a generally decent reputation and will try to do the right thing for customers. Though I guess the big difference is that secondhand bike sales are still largely a private peer-to-peer activity.
