[Closed] why are SUV's so much more popular than estates ?

It does also come down to what's available. I needed to replace a Forester. I need 4 wheel drive (really) and an estate would be fine, but the new Forester is more SUV then estate, so I had limited option.
I didn't choose an SUV, that was all that was available.

I guess its signs of modern times that people use their babies as the prime excuse for choosing their family cars. My parents brought me and my brother up in an Austin Mini and they certainly were not held back, somehow managing to ferry us all over the country on family holidays with a couple of week's worth of stuff. But these days it seems necessary to have a very specific car just to manage your kids for a couple of years while they're in a proper baby seats. I've fallen foul to the marketing chaps as I took the plunge with an SMax, but it has proved itself in a second life as a very effective MTB mule, being able to easily swallow 4 MTB's with nothing but their front wheels removed and 4 burly MTB'ers and all their gear for a long weekend of mountain biking, so my decision has been vindicated.

I'm a very average 5'9" and simply cannot believe claims that taller 4x4's are more convenient. Those claiming this must be taller than me. At my height I have to climb up into a big 4x4 like a Toureg to get into the cabin - not very convenient at all, and would have to lift a baby seat up quite hight to raise it up to the required level and then lean into the car to get their seats in - not a very ergonomically good posture to be in. And similarly the height of the boot with a big 4x4 means having to lift heavy shopping bags much higher to get them in. Again, I guess it depends on how tall you are.

but it has proved itself in a second life as a very effective MTB mule, being able to easily swallow 4 MTB's with nothing but their front wheels removed

Lol.. You complain about people using their kids as an excuse for an SUV then you do the exact same thing with your bikes. You can get four bikes on a rack with no bother. Used to do that in a Fiesta back in the day etc etc.

If you are in an SUV and the othercar in an accident isn't an SUV, you are something like 20 times less likely to be injured.

How much more likely is the person in the other car (or the pedestrian) to be injured, or does that not matter?

I've got a big old Hyundai Terracan, (mitsubishi shogun underneath) and my wife has a Laguna estate, on our one day of snow this year she asked to take my truck and I wouldn't let her, her cars far safer, has traction control and all season tyres on it, rather than my huge off road tyres which don't grip well on ice and snow. I like estate cars, I just use the Hyundai for around our farm and towing 3t trailers.

People don't mock SUVs out of inverse snobbery or envy, it's the sheer ridiculousness of the fact that most of them are just used to ferry small kids to school or go to the supermarket (where they often make adjacent parking spaces unusable).
I've also seen many an SUV swerving around puddles and potholes. I was on my way to meet friends for a bike ride, driving down a poorly-surfaced narrow road (with my MTB in the back of my Smart ForFour!) when an oncoming vehicle meant that the monster truck sized SUV in front and I had to pull over. In the limited space to pull over into, was a huge puddle half the size of my car, which the couple in the monster truck with massive wheels wouldn't drive into, but were happy to gesticulate and hoot their horn at me to drive into it in my Smart car 😀

Thatcher's children.

TBH a lightweight SUV Platform won´t be that polluting, like, a 1.5dci Nissan-Renault engine in a Qashcow isn´t going to behave much more differently to a 1.5 or 2.0dci in a Laguna or whatever the Nissan Estate is.... having said that the drivetrain, wheel and aero drags will all be a little higher.

To me, it just seems "normal" / car manufacturers have been pushing the "larger" car forever, it? just in Europe we resisted for a longer time due to MPG, handling issues etc. But now of course, with efficient engines, lower oil prices and large yet somewhat light chassis we are again falling to the mantra like so many other countries before...

Here it is, laid out in 1957(!)
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]

The last lines on the second image also start to talk about the "Premium" marketing method, which is also much more suited to the SUV product over the "bare bones" hatchback - if you're already spending more than the minimum, then the whole premium marketing opportunity opens up.

Personally, I'd say the above, plus the profit increase [from, say 5% to 15% plus increased cost of the product in the first place] explains it rather well.

Nissan, for example, has benefited hugely from the success of the SUV segment and employs a large UK workforce. So we're faced, again, with the Hobson's choice by the Industry.

Arse. I really need to change the world :/

Just switched from an SUV to an estate. Early days but enjoying the estate sooo much more. Easier to drive, much more economical and loads more space. Hasn't been through an IoM winter yet though, so might miss the 4x4 then.

I can confirm that you can squeeze 2 MTBs and 2 adults into a Smart ForFour, with room to spare for camelbaks, shoes, helmets etc 😉
You can do it even more easily in a fiesta 😀

Choosing an SUV shows that you really couldn't care less about the world's problems, and you think slight convenience for you is more important.

As does
- owning more than one car
- towing a caravan, rather than packing a tent/staying in a cabin/hotel
- travelling at more than the most fuel efficient speed for your car
-purchasing a new car without taking into regard the environmental impact of it's manufacture, rather than buying a secondhand one.

We've an XC90, Mondeo estate and Bongo camper, so most bases covered. Much rather be in the XC90 than the newer Mondeo.

This is a bunch of nonsense, as usual on here.

It's just a vehicle that you buy because you want. Talk of inefficiency, marketing and status is pure junk.

There are clearly decent SUV's and decent estates. To pick a category and lament it based on some else's needs is dumb.

I don't care someone else has an estate or an Audi or BMW or whatever. It's irrelevant too me.

I like the Yeti, nice drive and versatile and cheap. Like the high loading lip too etc.

Besides I'm not having kids so don't need and estate or mpv or whatever stereotypes are associated with them.

Inefficiency is not a useful barometer on its own as it depends on how much you use your car.

And as for marketing - did we not learn from 29/650 that it's just part of the industry we all purchase from?

If you're going to pick on marketing at least tackle perfumes or something where the marketing is so obscure it renders the product irrelevant.

Choosing an SUV shows that you really couldn't care less about the world's problems, and you think slight convenience for you is more important.

What absolute junk.

Taking one element in isolation of one persons life as a measure of everything is twaddle.

You have to look at the big picture. How much do you fly; how much do you drive; do you buy ethically; where do get your energy from; what you put back into your community; food etc etc.

I would say on balance even though we have two yetis our lifestyle is no where near the bottom of the heap.

People don't mock SUVs out of inverse snobbery or envy, it's the sheer ridiculousness of the fact that most of them are just used to ferry small kids to school or go to the supermarket

Totally, it's an image thing. Girl at work who always seems short of cash want's to trade in her perfectly good mini for a new R.Rover Evoke - in white surprise surprise. She doesn't go anywhere off road, not even a dirt track. She's 5ft 2", doesn't have kids, she doesn't ever need to carry anything large (e.g. bike etc). To her it's a image thing pure and simple - I think a celebrity she likes had bought one or something.

It's pure egoism.
I hate the things with a passion.
Infact, that goes for cars in general now, the South East of England has become a massive car park which happens to have houses on it.

I think I might be able to believe people who claim they didn't buy the Yeti for looks/status. Nearly as ugly as my Berlingo. 🙂

@molgrips if we all only cared about the worlds problems we'd drive small 1000cc cars, as above our parents did and our grandparents often had no car. Back in the day I borrowed my kids Yaris more than once to go riding, the bike went in the back easily, We'd also not take foreign holiday flights either etc and not heat our homes as mich as we do or eat as much meat etc etc

SUVs are customer choice, perhaps there's an element of marketing .. 650b anyone ?

Choosing an SUV shows that you really couldn't care less about the world's problems

Has to be a troll!!!

😀 😀 😀

@jam yes.

We all consume and none of us are hair shorted saints. But the issue with SUVs is that they use more resources for absolutely no benefit. It's just vanity. Which makes it the worst kind of overconsumption. Off road/heavy towing/poorly backs and whatever excluded so don't bother.

Agree with molgrips that we could all show more concern for the environment, but it's a lot easier to do things like walk or cycle to the local shops, and chose a more efficient car than it is to promise never to fly abroad ever again.

I dislike SUVs. You may think "my SUV does 50mpg, great" but if it where smaller and lighter (like a traditional estate car) it would use less resources in construction, do more mpg, handle better. Energy use by society needs reduced at a level of urgency that people still aren't grasping.

I also think they are pretentious and generally ugly, but that is my subjective opinion.

Driving a large SUV is a very visible indicator that you are probably someone who doesn't care that much about the environment, other people's safety and convenience when driving/parking etc compared to your own - it's a stereotype yes and unfair in some cases but will also have a fair degree of truth to it.

If you drive an 'SUV' that isn't particularly large and is economical then I don't think that's really who we are talking about is it.

I've not read such a load of tripe in a long time - too many self righteous tossers with their half arsed ill informed opinions!
It's not up to you lot to dictate what people can drive - no wonder a large part of the population think that cyclists are all yoghurt knitting hand wringing self important tossers. So what if you want to pootle around in a clockwork pedal car - if thats what you want to do then go for it but don't go decrying those who choose to drive something different. Yes, I drive a big 4x4 with a bloody great V8 engine because I like it not because ive got a small package or have been brainwashed by advertising guff - and its not because I want to destroy the planet. It's 18yrs old and will last a long time unlike a prius or similar which uses up a huge amount of natural resources and energy to build. It also runs on LPG which is cleaner and cheaper than petrol. It's comfortable and does what I need it to.
As for the space taken up on the road - I don't read anyone giving the VW T4, T5 etc a hard time - they're vans ffs, they take up more room than my 4x4 and you can't see past them either. But, of course, T4s and T5s have status on STW alongside the beloved Audis and Skodas ( and the ugly as sin sMax)
Personally I don't like small modern cars - for me they are cramped and uncomfortable and generally made from plastic and tinfoil - why on earth would I chose that over air conditioned leather luxury?

If you are in an SUV and the othercar in an accident isn't an SUV, you are something like 20 times less likely to be injured.

I for one would be very interested to see where you found this statistic and the data to back it up

too many self righteous tossers

ill informed opinions!

It's not up to you lot to dictate what people can drive

Yes, I drive a big 4x4 with a bloody great V8 engine because I like it not because ive got a small package or have been brainwashed by advertising guff - and its not because I want to destroy the planet. It's 18yrs old and will last a long time unlike a prius or similar which uses up a huge amount of natural resources and energy to build. It also runs on LPG which is cleaner and cheaper than petrol. It's comfortable and does what I need it to.

Buzz your post is chock full of straw men.

Your car may be 18 years old, but there are plenty of economical cars that old too. My Prius is 10 years old and going strong. And it's a myth they take more resources to make.

As for not wanting a small car - fine. I'm not asking you to put on a hair shirt. You can get plenty of very nice big cars that will do 60mpg. You really can have air conditioned leather luxury. No need to piss fuel up the wall for the sake of it .

This is a bunch of nonsense, as usual on here.

It's just a vehicle that you buy because you want. Talk of inefficiency, marketing and status is pure junk

What you mean is (as per most people) you don't like the real reasons behind your purchasing choices being analysed and exposed... like most, you find it challenging to admit your need for status, which is fair enough IMO.

At the end of the day how many short men buying sports cars actually admit to desire for the status they feel they lack as being the reason? It would take a superhuman level of self-awareness and maturity...

I work in marketing and if you ever talk to an experienced market research team they will tell you that you never take people's articulation of their reasons for choosing one product over another, or even their decision to buy in the first place, at face value - few people have the self-awareness to really understand their real needs, decision-making processes and their basic psychology - almost all of it is subconscious and without a lot of therapy and self-analysis you won't ever get to grips with your own self-talk...

We will post-rationalise till the cows come home in a way which allows us to present ourselves as a caring, thoughtful 'nice' human being - but that's just post-rationalisation. Hence the 'it's for my kids safety' rather than 'my need for status/my need compete with my friends and neighbours'...

We managed mass car ownership and raising families from c1950s to the mid-90's quite happily without them so I'm sure we can manage with smaller cars again... and I'm sure we will eventually - they'll fall out of fashion eventually and you'll see plenty of people who felt they were essential magically change their minds when they do 🙂

Hey molgrips do you have car(s) in your household? Be interested to know what you drive.

I would have preferred to have a smaller car but lifting my wife in and out of our previous estate car was killing my back, and the estate was a necessity with lugging a wheelchair and all her other care equipment.
So we now have a Volvo XC60 (2wd) as it was the best blend of height/space etc.
I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me I could have got a square box on wheels that would have done just as good a job, well it will probably come to that soon as I can see a Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle is the next step as her condition deteriorates and most of the WAV's are box on wheel units, so as a final flourish to enjoying a car it was my choice.
I did make sure it didn't have privacy glass so people didn't think I was an entitled parent 😉

It's totally about status and feeling good.. Whatever you need to feel manly man

I'd prefer a champagne coloured Golf with a tiger print interior cos I like to feel like Disco Stu..

If you don't do many miles then the efficiency penalty of an SUV is in the noise.

Yunki in the same way people bang on about n+1 and 2000 pound + mountain bikes when by the same logic some here are using, a 50 Raleigh bso would "do the same job"....

Hey molgrips do you have car(s) in your household? Be interested to know what you drive.

Either there's so much irony in this comment that It's broken my irony-meter, or you're new round here 😛

It's totally about[s] status and[/s] feeling good..

Probably true (and there's no reason why a glitterball can't fit into an SUV of choice) 🙂

Lot of hate in here. It always comes out in car threads. Hating other people's cars is one of the few things left that it's socially acceptable to hate. That and politicians.

All blokes need to feel manly.. I choose to do so by being quite effeminate and childish, thus proving that I am very comfortable with my masculinity..
Others prove their masculinity by making superior ethical choices and trying to encourage others to do so..
Some prove it with mockery, some with big cars and some with cash or success or sporting prowess..

I'm afraid that essentially, if we are man enough to be honest with ourselves about it, it's ALL just one big pissing contest

thisisnotaspoon - Member

Hey molgrips do you have car(s) in your household? Be interested to know what you drive.
Either there's so much irony in this comment that It's broken my irony-meter, or you're new round here

So he either doesn't live in a house, or he sells SUVs for a living. Can't see how I could be ironically asking what car or cars he has. Could you be more cryptic?

Driving a large SUV is a very visible indicator that you are probably someone who doesn't care that much about the environment,

No where near as damaging to the environment as having children though, that has to be the most selfish act, in terms of the environment.

...unless they grow up to save the world, eh?

I drive a BMW X1. I sometimes allow other oiks to use my road, however I can look down on them from my suprior driving position. It has indicators of course but my hands are far too busy to use such things....
So there.
(seriously, I like it. Thats why I bought it) haterz gonna hate. 🙂

Aphex we see the irony in asking Molgrips that question, as was mentioned it's all in the history (cough Passat)

Double post

Driving a large SUV is a very visible indicator that you are probably someone who doesn't care that much about the environment,

So he either doesn't live in a house, or he sells SUVs for a living. Can't see how I could be ironically asking what car or cars he has. Could you be more cryptic?

(Original thread lost to the sands of time)
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/molgrips-bloody-car-again-update
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/molgripss-car-episode-3-the-villain-revealed
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/molgrips-car-4-a-new-hope
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/molgrips-car-5-fixed
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/molgrips-car-6-its-over
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/what-colour-is-my-car

I caveated that in the other bit that you didn't bother quoting - it's a generalisation that doesn't apply in all cases but probably has some truth to it. Can you explain why you think that's pompous?

footflaps I don't have an SUV or children - what do I win? 🙂

Freedom of speech.

Driving a large SUV is a very visible indicator that you are probably someone who doesn't care that much about the environment, other people's safety and convenience when driving/parking etc compared to your own - it's a stereotype yes and unfair in some cases but will also have a fair degree of truth to it

There's also a fair degree of truth that you're talking total tosh.

What next from the self righteous of STW?

That everyone in an England shirt is a UKIP/NF supporter?

Guilty by association? Total cods wallop!

Stop getting your hair knickers in quite such a twist & stop crying so much about what other folks drive..

Can you explain why you think that's pompous?

Driving a large SUV is a very visible indicator that you are probably someone who doesn't care that much about the environment, other people's safety and convenience when driving/parking etc compared to your own - it's a stereotype yes and unfair in some cases but will also have a fair degree of truth to it.

Very defensive/passive-aggressive aren't we captainsasquatch. Touched a raw nerve?

mrlebowski there's only one of us getting our knickers in a twist and 'crying' here. Hint: it's not me.

No. Why? I just don't like seeing shite being spouted.

Hint: it's not me.

Nor me my good man - I like my SUV & am very happy with it....though my choice of wheels seems to bother you, so whose really upset?.....

First rule of passive-aggressive club (internet branch) is: first person to bring it up is probably most guilty.

The lack of self awareness of some people on this thread is ver ver amusing

It's amazing how contentious it apparently is to suggest that there might be some correlation between people who buy cars that are worse for the environment and cause more damage to others in a crash, and people placing less importance on environmental issues and other peoples' safety. How outrageous. 😕

There's several people in this thread who have admitted they just have a big SUV because they like it and they aren't too bothered about the issues with them. I have far more respect for that position than those getting all defensive.

Having a dog is probably environmentally worse though, how many of you SUV owners have dogs too (as well as children)? 😉

Ive always had a fascination with cars that look like Tonka toys. I suspect a childhood obsessively watching the Fall Guy may be to blame. Estate cars just don't hit that spot.

I also do very few miles, 3000 maybe, so the consumption thing is really a non issue. Plus it means I can drive it off road

2 and a half answers to the original question.

other peoples' safety

What about my safety? Should I drive a car that's unsafe just to please you? What about trucks? Lorries? Bigger cars than mine? Ban them too? Your point about safety has more holes in than a colander. Compared to whats out there on the road an SUV should be the least of your worries..

As for the environment? I'm very impressed that you can determine someones green credentials from the type of car they drive. That's some trick....

I have an SUV because 10 years in the Army has left me with a bad back & dodgy knees. I find it a thousand times easier to load stuff in & out of.

If you can't accept my reasons then you're not anyway near as compassionate & aware of others needs as you like to think you are..

On that note I'm off to chuck a load of super unleaded in my gas guzzler & then leave the engine running till it runs out......

I also do very few miles, 3000 maybe, so the consumption thing is really a non issue. Plus it means I can drive it off road

SUV vs truck may be of interest to the occupants of course, and it is clear this is a motivation for many.
However, since many are used in urban environments, what about SUV vs pedestrian safety?
Eg.

Or this

Scroll down to the last para in each case.

Modern softroaders show how things can be done to improve such as:

http://euroncap.blob.core.windows.net/media/4758/euroncap_nissan_x-trail_2014_5stars.pdf

Just a thought.

Can't see the obsession with cars, but amusing thread.

I try to take kids' 1L Peugeot out as much as possible. Drives well, easy to park and just filed it up for £30! Amazing

I try to take kids' 1L Peugeot out as much as possible. Drives well, easy to park and just filed it up for £30! Amazing

Big Kids now 😉

car size = 1/penis size 😉

Need units inches? Metres? 😯

From >

"Pedestrian
Just three sites out of 18 tested on the vehicle's front gave any protection. This is dire, and Land Rover needs to
improve matters."

I run my petrol 4x4 on LPG and use waste veg oil in the diesel one 🙂
I know its have a go at 4x4 & SUV time but all the points made about size, consumption etc are equally applicable to those that choose to run around in T4s, T5s and other vans/campers so why are they not getting some of the stick?

Go faster stripes.... Any data for t4 and t5?

Meanwhile what him above says. Veg oil in my 30 year old diesel. And i use much more efficient vehicle most of the year for most of the jobs i need a car for- on top of that i cycle on a day to day basis as i hate sitting in traffic.

Men also choose to try to impress the ladies with intellectualism, aestheticism, pragmatism, neo-luddism and occasionally wilful ignorance or even basic stupidity

It's all willy-waving boys, whether you're aware of it or not

c'mon........... group hug

Err because most T4, T5 and other vans are actually used for sleeping/camping in, or to carry a whole load of work stuff. Most SUV's, especially the fashionable soft reader types, serve absolutely no practical purpose other than to allow the rest of us drivers to quickly and easily spot the self absorbed bell-ends around us on the road!

For a laugh we keep a score when driving. The humble Skoda Yeti would score low on the scale as they are not too flashy and are normally driven by well meaning old folk. Something like a white Macan or RR Sport with blacked out windows and all the chrome accessories from the options list would score a full 10 points on the cockometer. You can be sure that such a vehicle is driven by perhaps one of the most obnoxious and cretinous individuals you're ever likely to come across.

You cannot judge a persons encironmental impact or credentials based on the car they drive, they may do fewer miles (as above), drive more carefully, not keep their central heating turned up so high etc etc

Over a cars lifetime its total environmental impact has not that much to do with mpg, the manufacture and lack of recycling are more material. Personally I think it will be shown that all diesel cars are worse for the environment than their petrol equivalent anyway.

@agent why don't you start taking pictures of these white Macan's you keep seeing. All the ones I've seen (dozen plus ?) or are owned by friends are in dark metallic colours, one uses hers to tow the horse box to dressage events

see.... now there's a guy using intellectualism to assert his masculinity 🙂

oops! ninja edit: and wealth and power (by association) 😆

see.... now there's a guy using intellectualism to assert his masculinity

😆

you show 'em Jamba

I'm starting on that painting next week BTW if you're still interested..

You cannot judge a persons encironmental impact or credentials based on the car they drive, they may do fewer miles (as above), drive more carefully, not keep their central heating turned up so high etc etc

one good friend users hers to tow the horse box to dressage events

yunki - Member
Men also choose to try to impress the ladies with intellectualism, aestheticism, pragmatism, neo-luddism and occasionally wilful ignorance or even basic stupidity

It's all willy-waving boys, whether you're aware of it or not

Just wear a kilt.

No need to wave anything - in fact, inadvisable. 🙂

@agent why don't you start taking pictures of these white Macan's you keep seeing. All the ones I've seen (dozen plus ?) or are owned by friends are in dark metallic colours, one uses hers to tow the horse box to dressage events

Heaven help us all if I start taking pictures of people driving their white SUV's! Most owners already seem to think that they're more important than anyone else without me inflating their egos any further by giving them the paperazi treatment.

From how most seem to be driven, they are skill compensators

I don't feel safe in a Micra, Civic etc, so I'll get a huge 2 ton lump and then I'll be safer

I've 350bhp of two seat sports car for that

And a very nice one too.

VW T5 - [url= http://euroncap.blob.core.windows.net/media/6102/euroncap_vw_t5_2013_4stars.pdf ]Pedestrian 32%[/url]

"HEAD 9,8 pts
PELVIS pts
LEG O pts"

"Pedestrian
The bumper provided poor protection to pedestrians' legs and scored no points in this area. Most of the bonnet surface provided protection that ranged between poor and marginal though good results were recorded on the windscreen.
"