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reading the BMW/Porsche thread and others, and a few I've popped up in recent weeks about new car musing.
Seems like every other new car is an SUV, yet from what I have seen with limited looking, they are generally smaller inside, less economic, and often more expensive than a nice estate car. Take X5 vs. 5 Tourer, Q5 vs. A4 Avant, Tourag/Tiguan vs Passat Alltrack.
is it the higher driving position, or just fashion ?
Higher driving position is nice plus they often sit you more upright so give the feeling of more space.
Fashion. They're the new people carrier.
My dad finally got ones as he can't bend down any more. Perhaps we're all getting old?
and you missed poorer handling and slower from your list too.
Nice big estate every time for me
Give a lovely smug edge to an already over inflated ego....
is it the higher driving position, or just fashion ?
Mix of both and other factors?
I drive a C-max for no particular reason other than it's what the local dealer had and I needed a big-ish car. Everyone who drives it comments on how nice it is driving a little higher/upright than the usual hatchback/saloon/estate position.
SUV appeal is a mix of fashion, and safety (better to be in a tank than hit by one) and practicability, which can also be part of the fashion, you might live in a housing estate on the outskirts of London, but once in a blue moon you may need to drive off [s]the polo clubs [/s] [i]a trail centers[/i] muddy overflow car park, you could do it in an estate, but then no one would know you [s]play polo [/s][i]are a mountainbiker[/i].
Bit like wearing trainers, you've never run a marathon in your life, and probably have a lapsed gym membership, but a nice pair of hush puppies just don't convey the same youthfull macho image.
MPV for me (Ford Galaxy currently) over an SUV any time, screw fashion, for family stuff and lugging bikes / kit around you can't beat them.
To answer the OP I can't see any answer other than fashion, or is there anything that an SUV does better than other types of car?
Ride height gives excellent vision. Style is certainly part of it too. I've had 4x4's in estate cars and "SUV". My 2nd wife will not have an estate car but is ok with a 4x4 / SUV , this view is based entirely on not liking the looks of estate cars.
If you look at something like the Subi Forester it's a real mix of both
Much more pleasant putting kids in [to a child-seat in] an SUV than a normal car. Don't quite get the fascination myself although I'm tempted by a Yeti for next car.
There does seem to an SUV version of all models now though. Pretty sure all the BMWs have an X-version, apart from the 2 and the 7 (heaven forbid...I'm sure there'll be one next year). Audi have Q'd most of theirs. Citroen seem to be doing the same. Merc are busy doing GLs of lots of theirs. Dunno...everybody's gone SUV crazy. Much prefer estates myself. Used to dislike softroaders quite a bit but, and maybe it's because there are just so many out there now, there are some I quite like these days. (The Merc GLA is a fine looking compact SUV...IMO.)
Well I chose my XC60 because it was smaller than my XC90 😆 But I chose both for the reasons:
Big Car, Big Boot, 7 seats (Old Parents need room, but only 5 seats in the 60) get my bikes in the back, upright driving position, sit higher so can see over hedges, can tow trailers and image.
I didn't want another estate (I'd had 2 x BMW 5 sport tourings)
Image, image, image.
Not really, but it played it's part 😀
Much more pleasant putting kids in [to a child-seat in] an SUV than a normal car. Don't quite get the fascination myself although I'm tempted by a Yeti for next car.
Absolutely.
Also, if you want seven seats, it's SUV or a van. I know which I preferred!
DD, have you checked the spec on the Yeti. Y'know, the [i]important[/i] stuff.....
hmmmm, well I don't need 7 seats, and I put the bikes on the roof....
I suspect my 5 Tourer company car may end up being replaced with another estate in 6 months, though I do quite fancy 4x4 for the 2 snowy days per yr and the odd field 🙂
Thing is - a Passat Alltrack is more expensive than an X3....
Yes...
They are...
(@ O'Flashearty)
I needed access into a muddy field over a steep ramp, and my 14 year old focus kept grounding on the way in. So its all about fashion and smugness
Higher seating position.
I'd much rather have an MPV than an SUV. SUVs are just a waste of fuel for style - end of. Fashion innit. Atual 4x4 applications notwithstanding.
Although if you're like my sister and you use the odd day of snow to justify an SUV, you're not much better. She'd have been better off with winter tyres, but would not listen to me.
SUV appeal is a mix of fashion, and safety (better to be in a tank than hit by one)
I believe the jury is still out on this one. You're carrying a lot more kinetic energy, so if you end up hitting something even more solid than you are (tree, lorry, wall etc) you'll be worse off.
Got wonder if SUVs give better vision, why are most seemingly driven by people who fail to see things around them on the road?
Why are they nearly always parked badly as if the driver can't see the kerb\lines round parking space\adjacent car?
Something doesn't add up 🙂
Yeah it's a real ball ache putting kids in a child seat in a car, oh wait sorry no it's not.
Why are they popular? Well have you ever thought the world was short on knobs 🙂
It's getting a bit ridiculous when the damn things need a staircase.
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There are a few valid uses for them, but most of the time they're just massively selfish. Taking up way too much space, making it impossible for anyone to see around or through them, they generally just scream "over-entitled a***hole" to me.
But I may be slightly biased 😀
Been nursing a herniated disc in my back for the last month or so, caused by getting into a stupid low BMW estate of some sort, and aggravated by constantly getting in and out of my colleague's stupid low BMW estate of some sort.
SUV for me if and when I eventually buy a car! If I can't get into a low car without hurting my back I dread to think what bending over and manhandling an infant into a child seat would be like...
Don't quite get the fascination myself although I'm tempted by a Yeti for next car.
I parked next to a Yeti in Peaslake on my last ride with Maj, I didn't realise the rear seats came out 🙂 Also spoke to the owner it was a Monte Carlo (?) model, apparently they go like stink. The latest ones look good too.
@Drac it's much easier putting kids into a higher vehicle be that for example a RAv4 or a Merc A class. Much less bending of the back. Kids also appreciate higher seating and the view.
@ianc Audi quattro estates are fabulous in the snow, you don't need the ride height of an Alltrack or Q3/5/7 if you don't want it.
Big dogs x2 - 4x4 estate every time. Avoids back trouble. Several of my wife's friends curse their 4x4 for that reason. Plus cope in most weathers and terrain.
(Plus Mrs THM has a negative disposition to 4x4 SUV drivers expecially "fat, arrogance men in RRs" - shame really as the ride position is nice :wink:)
What better way of saying "* you", "* the environment", "**** off"?
Yeah it's a real ball ache putting kids in a child seat in a car, oh wait sorry no it's not.
I remember looking after a mate's toddler for a weekend with a 3-door Mini (yeah, we were young...). I can confirm putting a child in and out of[the back seat of] that was a ballache. It's not like it's end-of-the-world difficult, but it's [i]easier[/i] in an SUV. That matters to some people when they're choosing their car...maybe they're spending too much time carting their kids around in cars or maybe they don't have much other choice other than to do it. I mean yeah, go figure.
Drac it's much easier putting kids into a higher vehicle be that for example a RAv4 or a Merc A class. Much less bending of the back. Kids also appreciate higher seating and the view.
I'm not sure how I ever managed.
Once they get around 2 they climb in themselves.
Blame women as (1) better for getting kids out, (2) they think they are safer (3) easier to see out of, not when you are 5'1" love and can't see over the dash.
Manufacturers love them because they have better profit margins.
It's so they can mount the kerb and plough up grass verges when doing the school run, innit?
Spend half my life in the Esher area these days.
It appears you absolutely [i]need[/i] an SUV - in Black with tinted rear windows if you are a Blonde dropping your kids at prep school and cannot park or let go of your phone.
4x4 estate for me.
Manufacturers love them because they have better profit margins.
I thought that was only in the States, where they're classed differently so don't have to pass the same safety and emissions tests?
I genuinely don't understand this SUV is easier for kids. Why don't SUV owners drive people carrirers or vans with windows?
A Berlingo is easy for kids and has the high seating but I'd guess many SUV owners would sneer at that.
Is it really prestige and the kids are just an excuse?
I drive a small French hatchback so I don't understand desirable cars. I go for cheap and economical.
Image, image, image.
I just don't get it. Why do so many want to project and image that says "I'm an idiot"? 😉
Also, perhaps more seriously, why do people want to sit up higher? Do they want to feel like a bus driver? I always set my seat as low as it will go.
OP. just to point out in BMWs case, the X series cars are bigger than the non X
Eg 320 tourer boot 495 v x3 550
Dragon- don't blame women! There's a dad who does the school run near us, who (despite plenty of places to park all the way along the street) likes to park his huge SUV half on the pavement and right across a T-junction every day. He's only dropping one tiny primary school kid off.
I don't get the kids thing either - when our kid was able to walk, she could just about climb in and out of the car by herself. She'd have found it impossible if the car was a couple of feet higher.
Having young kids is a daft excuse for having an SUV. Kids are only in those portable baby seats for 12 months max. I managed perfectly well with a 2-door car. I'd rather people admit that it's an image thing than make up silly excuses.
CaptainSlow - Member
OP. just to point out in BMWs case, the X series cars are bigger than the non XEg 320 tourer boot 495 v x3 550
yes, but an X3 costs the same as a 5 Tourer, which has loads more space. The 3 Tourer is similar price to an X1.
The X models are generally a chunk more money than the same sized estates.
I've got a hulking great 4x4 and a normal car. It's not really any more practical than an estate for putting stuff in. No more or less easy for the kids. It's nice to sit up high for driving compared to my bog standard motor, not as nice a proper low position for 'making progress'
So, I'm going with, fashion and we eventually follow everything the North Americans do.
The marketing does project an image of safety and security and as we know 'lifestyle' is king. My watch can dive to 300m, I need the car to match my self image.
Arne't SUVs just types of estates?
More upright - I.e less sat on the floor. Better for entry and seat position than sat lower (I always find seat to floor is usually better for legs and knees.)
I like both types of car. I've owned both. I think it comes down to the particular make model rather than the category.
My Yeti is great, handles pretty well for a shoe-box given I'm not on a race track. I also think bigger, chunkier tyres feel more sure-footage than the average estate.
Don't think fashion comes into it the mass produced market? Daft criticism. You can have a plenty s****y estate can't you.
Americans tend to drive pick-ups.
True for Beemers Cpn - cant get a cello in the back of a Beemer estate apparently! No probs in a boring old VXC70 workhorse!
I am always surprise how
...IME bot space is often disappointing in an SUV
...the number of high end versions in state school car parks....hmm, what should I spend my money on, a depreciating lump of metal or education? Tough choice.... 😉
Safety?? How much of that is a myth? Wife's ex colleague/client suffered watching his family die as their RR overturned on the way back from holiday through his rear view mirror many years ago. Have they sorted out the high centre of gravity issue?
Don't think fashion comes into it the mass produced market?
This is a windup surely?
I genuinely don't understand this SUV is easier for kids. Why don't SUV owners drive people carrirers or vans with windows?A Berlingo is easy for kids and has the high seating but I'd guess many SUV owners would sneer at that.
When looking at car's we got to a Berlingo this was the GF's reaction.
"I'm not the *ing Pope, and I don't intend to drive the f Pope, and I don't want to look like I'm driving the f**g pope in a ******* spacky waggon, OK"
You say 'image', some say 'fashion', other's say 'style', but you've got to admit, they're so ugly you could beat them with a stick and it'd be an improvement. As an MPV owner I sneer at you in your berlingo a lot less than you apparently sneer at everyone else. You might really not care about such things, but for everyone else spending several £k on something, it matters at least a little bit.
Having said that, the C-max is unforgivably ugly too.
the number of high end versions in state school car parks....hmm, what should I spend my money on, a depreciating lump of metal or education? Tough choice...
Now now TMH. You'd have to be driving a new Ferrari every 2 years to spend what it takes to put 2 kids through school
The X models are generally a chunk more money than the same sized estates.
Cost of the 4wd system ?
Marketing pure and simple and it's been hugely effective. The sports and luxury car market was in decline amongst affluent women and older wealthy men in the late 70's and when RR launched it was a hit with them. Marketing got into it and that was that. It's taken 30 years but now if you want to be perceived as affluent it's an SUV for you and guess what, many do want to be perceived as exactly that.
it's an image thing
Maybe for some, personally I hated the 'image' of SUVs, but two herniated discs in I'm not taking any chances.
Although have a soft spot for those massive Volvo estates, CX70s are they?
Americans tend to drive pick-ups.
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
'crossovers' (soft-roaders, whatever you want to call them, as distinct from SUV which is reserved as a term for actual 4x4's in the US) outsell pickups 2:1. And cars still outsell pickus 3:1.
Safety?? How much of that is a myth?
Dunno, but it's a bloody enduring one if it is. Brings to mind a conversation with an erstwhile friend's wife when I was ripping the piss over them buying a RAV4 years (we're talking well over ten, when SUVs weren't such a thing) ago. (At the time there was a bit of hoo-ha over who's safest...the high seated occupants, the owners of smaller cars hit by SUVs, the child's face that gets hit on the zebra crossing, etc etc.) Her last comment was along the lines of "Well, when it comes down to it, what I really care about is MY safety and the safety of MY kids. Everybody else's is not that important to me." Incredibly selfish I thought, but probably far more common in people's minds when choosing cars than we'd like to admit. So...if the perception that they're safer is out there, and it is, and probably perpetuated by car salesmen, then the uninformed will make their decisions based on myths.
higher seating position gives better view of the road, however this is offset by higher CoG which ( physics would suggest ) gives reduced ability to corner or stop.
guess the upshot is that if you're paying attention and/or nothing too unexpected happens too quickly you're just fine, but if things go really sideways fast you might have the skills of a scandinavian rally driver, but you're more likely to hit something.
i guess the thinking goes that if you hit something smaller you'll be better off, and hit something same size or bigger and the results will be much the same.
personally i'd rather not have the accident at all, but i drive a van.
iainc - Member
CaptainSlow - Member
OP. just to point out in BMWs case, the X series cars are bigger than the non X
Eg 320 tourer boot 495 v x3 550yes, but an X3 costs the same as a 5 Tourer, which has loads more space. The 3 Tourer is similar price to an X1.
The X models are generally a chunk more money than the same sized estates.
The 5 series tourer has a 520 boot v the x3s 550...
dragon - Member
Blame women...
Usual STW forum response to just about every problem from Isis to the smell of whatshisname's police car.
It's a euphemism for Fatcher, KB
I reckon the volume figures for the boots are larger as the roof is higher. I imagine the actual boot footprint is smaller.
Went for an estate over an SUV as it had more usable space, faster, more economical, looked nicer, didn't want everyone to think I was a trophy wife, in that order. Plus, as everyone wants SUVs, the used estate market is great at the moment!
I expect the bulk of it is because "that's what the manufacturers are building"
We have a Passat estate for commuting and a Caravelle as a family car so it's all about dull practicality for me, but it's only good stuff that other people not so incumbered can choose from more interesting and stylish vehicles.
Selfishness is increasingly lauded in our society - ergo SUVs are more and more popular.
Safety??
Safety for the passengers - less safety for everyone else.
Usual STW forum response to just about every problem from Isis to the smell of whatshisname's police car.
It's more a typical Dragon response.
I drive an SUV because I want too, deal with it.
Safety for the passengers
But not necessarily, that's my point.
Strip away the badge and which maker has the best looking combination?
IMO - VW, the Toureg had the best proportions IMO and the version parked next to me yesterday looked very nice inside. Plus the Passat is always agood looking if under-rated estate. Nice combo...
Strip away the badge and which maker has the best looking combination?
Humvee? 😀 (Or is Hummer...can't remember...)
I drive an SUV because I want too
At last a sensible reply.
Not to the OP's question.
I'm "in the trade" this week I have sold 2 cars we took in [s]chop[/s] PX, one was an X1, awful looking thing, open the bonnet & you can see how they use spacers to bulk the body away from a standard chassis to give it it's size, the other a year old RR sport 5.0V8, it was just shy of £100k new, 7 seater my arse, the Zafira I owned 15 years ago had better & cleverer rear seats (barring the electric bit), best bit is someone payed over £30,000 to own it for a year & do 7000 miles, they should of just hired a chauffeur!
At last a sensible reply.
Maybe Larry is the trend setter.
Captain slow boot volume is a bit misleading. The x is bigger because it's got a higher roof which doesn't translate really to usable space, in terms of floor area.
This is a windup surely?
Badly put.
I mean if something is so popular/common it ceases to become exclusive enough to be fashionable.
Image? The only image they suggest to me is that the driver is daft;* choosing a car which is fundementally less capable at almost everything (except entering a field apparently, [i]if[/i] it's even actually 4x4) than its 'normal' estate equivalent, and paid more for the privilege, both up front and in fuel economy. My (half baked) theory is that people like them because they look like tonka like, and are almost cartoon caricature versions of 'normal' cars, all big wheels and fat curves. This appeals to people on an almost subliminal level, I reckon. They look like real life versions of those car cartoons that used to be all the rage.
*medical reasons excluded. I totally get that reason, but it's quite rare I reckon
I think it's more telling like that it would even bother one individual that someone else would choose a car that suits them.
Fashion and marketing for god's sake. I've heard it all. All new cars are subject to these factors.
I think I will just start disliking cars with a sunroof.
I bought a yeti to replace my octavia estate because it's easy to get the bikes inside after having bikes stolen off the roof of the car. So far I've done 3 bikes and the bike trailer with just the front wheels out and three people in. The additional height in the roof makes it more versatile. The removable seats make loading easier and packing with seat down safer for the person in the back seat.
It is easier to put a child in and out of a car seat, wasn't hard in the octy but easier in the yeti.
It is also cheaper due to higher residuals and is only doing about 10% less in terms of mpg. The difference in fuel cost is less than the difference in finance cost.
Interesting Mr Hoppy I got a yeti 'cos it was a good lease deal for a lot of car however I will concede for me putting the bike on the roof is hard work and this scores it down a bit over an estate.
It is however a much nicer drive than either my previous Octavia and Fabia, and much cheaper to insure.
he other a year old RR sport 5.0V8, it was just shy of £100k new, 7 seater my arse, the Zafira I owned 15 years ago had better & cleverer rear seats (barring the electric bit), best bit is someone payed over £30,000 to own it for a year & do 7000 miles, they should of just [s]hired a chauffeur[/s]
Bought a Macan and sold it for more than they paid for it 😀
@mrhoppy - top post 🙂
I guess one important point is whether you are prepared to put your bikes on the outside of the car. Personally I am not as I don't want the bike jet blasted at 70mph by dirt and water.
Image. Simple as that. "Look at me up here. I'm better than you"
"Look at me up here. I'm better than you"
There does seem to an SUV version of all models now though.
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And I really dislike the image/ styling. I'd much rather have bought another estate but the SUV body style is far more practical.
Fashion and marketing for god's sake. I've heard it all. All new cars are subject to these factors.
Really? I drive a Berlingo. 😀
We bought a Touareg to replace an A6 estate. It goes better, bigger boot, handles almost as well, more room across the back seat (room for 1 adult I between the kids seats) and importantly will drive across a muddy field that'll have and 4x4 estate floundering. How often is that used? I'd guess a couple of times a week, but clearly that wouldn't be the case if I lived in London! Oh, and it'll tow 3 ton trailers which comes in handy when your other half is into horses and you have a penchant for gliders. So for me, it's a practicality thing but why are quite so many? Fashion. I also suspect that the typical Chelsea tractor driver isn't going to give too much of a toss what people on a cycling forum think about what it says on the style front....
To balance it out, I got a 1 series today....
What exactly is an SUV?
Really? I drive a Berlingo.
I don't think he understands how fashion works. How can all cars be fashionable?
Selfish upstart's vehicle?
Image. Simple as that. "Look at me up here. I'm better than you"
Seriously?
I can't imagine why anyone would think this. It's an SUV, there are loads of them. They're not exclusive at all.
It's just possible that people might actually like them.
Not all are good but some are.