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Surely it would more sense to take off downhill and land uphill?
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Having two runways would solve the potential conflicts of planes going in opposite directions. Would easily have been possible on old wartime bomber airfields, a lot of runways were just neatly mown and rollered grass anyway, might be more of an issue putting an extra one in at Heathrow but places like Dubai have the space. I can't see wind direction being any more of an issue than it is on flat ones
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Sensible question, so please no-one suggest reversing the conveyor belt for landing 🙂
Have you seen the bowl-shaped airport design? 🙂
land uphill?
Seems like a bad idea to me.
Having two runways would solve the potential conflicts of planes going in opposite directions
Having one flat runway that can be used for takeoff from one end and landing from the other solves the same problem but with half the runways
Wind direction would render your runway unusable half the time if it sloped.
Also go on youtube to see some of the more hilly runways, and the effect they have on aircraft landing on them and you'll see why this would be a challenging idea.
Take off into prevailing winds innit ?
The treadmill would slide down to one end.....
Having flown into and out off Lukla a couple of times landing up hill isn't a lot of fun. But taking off downhill is.
Because the wind doesn’t always blow in the same direction and flat surfaces create less wind turbulence than non flat surfaces.
+ it’s ok for take off but landing uphill or downhill is harder and more chance of crashing.
You know when you jump a mountain bike? Have you ever tried landing on an upslope?
That's why they don't land uphill...
In my totally uninformed opinion, the point of a runway is to allow the plane to get up enough speed to have enough air pass over the wings to generate lift. As they can do this pretty easily on the flat, there’s no need to go to the extra expense of building hills.
Though, the airport/runway in alpe d’huez is on a pretty substantial incline, though that’s hardly a busy international hub...
I've always thought motorway junctions should always be above the carriageway. Gravity assist to get up to speed and less braking required to exit.
Clearly, tilting runways is the answer here.
Extra points if they can also rotate to face into the wind.
Oh goodie, an aeroplane runway thread!
Would it be a good idea to take off downhill? Whilst it would allow your plane to gather speed more quickly, it would need to create more lift when it comes to take off. However, given the vertical speed experienced when taking off I suspect this might not be an issue. So it might work. I don't think landing uphill would be fun though. You'd have to decrease your angle of approach which would mean spending more time lower to the ground and make more noise for people on the ground perhaps.
But the biggest issue would be planning. You'd have to have two runways sloping in opposite directions because airports switch the take-off direction depending on weather. Given that you can't have two opposite slopes next to each other, without a lot of work, you'd need twice the space. Although, given that planes usually only use half the runway or so, you could put the runway on a hill so that it goes over the top and that would have the desired effect. Cardiff Airport is like this anyway, and I don't know if it confers an advantage or not.
That video is with it tarmac'ed. Even more fun when it was just dirt.
Having two runways would solve the potential conflicts of planes going in opposite directions
Or build it as one really long runway with a hill in the middle. In fact, instead of a hill, build a passenger airline sized tabletop jump? "This is your captain speaking. Stoke levels are all time. Droppin'!!"
Or build it as one really long runway with a hill in the middle. In fact, instead of a hill, build a passenger airline sized tabletop jump? “This is your captain speaking. Stoke levels are all time. Droppin’!!”
This would solve the mid air collision problem on the approach/departure path I was going to mention also.
And with the wind, you'd always have the planes going at minmimum speed in the middle and both sets going the same way.
(I've also had that thought about motorways, and in fact all junctions :))
Wasn't the old Filton runway up and over the brow of a hill?
I could see planes land from my old house, disappear below the roof line of sight, then the tail fin would reappear in to view again.
Would aircraft be required to climb up.or down to.and from the inclined runway as they taxi pre and post flight?
I may be wrong but a few altiports that I've seen in the Alps, seem to be with a landing strip sloping upwards. These runways are very short though.
Clearly, tilting runways is the answer here.
Extra points if they can also rotate to face into the wind.
That'd be an aircraft carrier.
That’d be an aircraft carrier
Just need the VSTOL Airbus A380 and we're all sorted.
Floating rotating airport in the Thames?
You need to be able to land either direction too, depending on wind.
That being said, Leeds Bradford runway definitely isn't flat. Not sure why though, maybe some of the bigger planes or planes needing a longer runway (like Concord) could only land / take off in one direction on it.
Landing on a slope, up or down, is much harder to judge.
As for takeoff; with passenger aircraft, a massive part of the safety case for takeoff is about being able to safely stop if something goes wrong with the aircraft (engine failure, instrumentation failure, etc) before you're going fast enough to safely take off.
With a significantly downhill runway, sure you'll accelerate faster, but if something does goes wrong (serious enough to not want to continue the takeoff) then you'll have a big issue stopping before going off the end.
Runways aren't flat
Runways aren’t flat
Research it sheeple!
Why don't they just use treadmills?
"Why don’t they just use treadmills?"
That's some Old Skool STW right there!
Prevailing winds at LBA blow across the runway too. I suspect its why its sometimes loads cheaper than MAN to fly in October.
Why are runways flat? Because the earth's flat, duh.
Surely it would more sense to take off downhill and land uphill?
Make more sense to whom? Pilots, professional airport designers, or random blokes on a mountain bike forum?
Landing downhill makes more sense to me. You'd have a softer landing as the ground is falling away from you as you're travelling forwards. Planes generally land nose-up, I can't imagine what would happen if the front wheels hit the ground first but I don't expect it'd be pretty.
Landing on a slope, up or down, is much harder to judge.
I expect that's your answer right there, TBH. Anything other than flat introduces extra variables for a pilot to account for, and introduces the chance of inconsistency. If angled runways were (a good idea and) a thing then you could guarantee that every country would have its own standards, whereas horizontal is horizontal the world over.
I can ask an actual pilot if you like?
Planes generally land nose-up
.......and tail down,where the tail is often a long way behind the wheels
I can’t imagine what would happen if the front wheels hit the ground first but I don’t expect it’d be pretty.
Equally ugly if the tail catches the slope on way down , no?
It seems a sure-fire way to complicate what is already quite a simple process.
If you were to have 2 runways, one uphill, and one down, which one you use for take-off and which one is used for landing will be dependant on the wind direction at the time. That in itself is potentially an additional source of confusion and increases the likelihood of collisions.
And all the other stuff that's been mentioned already.
Can't see any advantage really.
Have you seen the bowl-shaped airport design?
I like this one. You can land in any direction.
To save on fuel you could build it to rotate eccentrically so you could fling the airliners into the sky like marbles in a bowl.
Why build long runways at all? Use catapults and arrestors instead. The airline can then play the Top Gun theme tune over the tannoy.
I can ask an actual pilot if you like?
Resident airline pilots will be along eventually. Everyone else here works from home.
Why build long runways at all? Use catapults and arrestors instead.
Heathrow's third runway doesn't need all that expensive re-routing the M25 and flattening half the towns after all!
LBA was never designed to be landed at.
Just replace all aeroplanes with helicopters and land vertically. You could fit loads of landing pads on an airport runway and have plenty of room left to build a pump track or something.
Try telling Chris Froome that runways are flat. The one at Peyragudes in the Pyrenees was a stage finish on the 2017 TdF, it has a gradient of 20% for about 600m and he was mobbed, running out of steam about 200m from the line.
Oh goodie, an aeroplane runway thread!
Would it be a good idea to take off downhill? Whilst it would allow your plane to gather speed more quickly, it would need to create more lift when it comes to take off. However, given the vertical speed experienced when taking off I suspect this might not be an issue. So it might work. I don’t think landing uphill would be fun though. You’d have to decrease your angle of approach which would mean spending more time lower to the ground and make more noise for people on the ground perhaps.
But the biggest issue would be planning. You’d have to have two runways sloping in opposite directions because airports switch the take-off direction depending on weather. Given that you can’t have two opposite slopes next to each other, without a lot of work, you’d need twice the space. Although, given that planes usually only use half the runway or so, you could put the runway on a hill so that it goes over the top and that would have the desired effect. Cardiff Airport is like this anyway, and I don’t know if it confers an advantage or not.
No wonder youve no time for meal prep typing all that shite! 🤣🤣🤣
Cats and traps airliners sound like brilliant fun.
Or because we are cheap, a STONAR Heathrow fitted for but not with a catapult. I suspect the stobar ramp would be even more fun in an airliner.
LBA was never designed to be landed at.
Highest airport in the UK, innit. Someone told a Yorkshireman building it up there would save a few quids worth of fuel on takeoff. Didn't ask about coming back down.
Runways aren't flat. You'd be surprised at how hilly they actually are. Much more noticeable when in a light aircraft. Some can literally throw you into the air just like off the end of an aircraft carrier.
LBA is only 681ft high, highest licensed runway is Dunkeswell at 839ft.
Lots of runway aren’t flat, go up and down, have bumps in the middle and some are on slopes. So they are not always flat!
Some are on slopes and these need to be landed on uphill and taken off from downhill. Small planes land nicely on a hill because you basically fly up them till you touch down, slower than usual and then have the hill to slow you down. But they need a bit of practice and easier to get wrong than landing to flat. (Watch AirAmerica for some good examples). Downhill takeoffs ok, alternatively landings difficult to almost impossible, the approach angle is typically 3 degrees, can be 5 degrees, so typically any downhill slope of that or more and the aircraft is flying above and not getting much closer to the landing!
Biggest issue for all aero planes is airspeed, so getting up to that speed (or reducing from it to land) is critical - absolutely necessary, to fly or not to fly. To aid this taking off and landing into wind is important/valuable.
In a small aircraft up to 3-5knots of tailwind is not too much of an issue but above that, downwind take offs and landings become challenging: ie landing speed now at least 5knots faster. As the aircraft comes closer to the ground the tailwind will normally decrease. This has a temporary lift increasing effect due to the increase in true airspeed (inertial effect) making it more difficult to put the aircraft on the ground, which amplifies floating of the aircraft. So dramatically increasing the likeness of running off the runway. Many commercial aircraft have a max tailwind of 10knots.
and flattening half the towns after all!
Dont need it anyway. Could just go with the Kings Cross airport proposed in the 1930s.
Fun to watch landings and take offs from the ski slope that goes right past it.
Also see, Goldeneye pre-title sequence.