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So she's decided she doesn't want the stress of a DIY ski holiday this year and since our half term seems to be a week earlier than most, we're looking at all the tour operators to see what we can find.
Ski solutions sounded promising at £345 pp to Tignes, but closer investigation revealed that particular 'package' excluded flights and transfers and food and ski carriage and lift pass. In fact it excluded everything except the appartment.
So I phoned up and we discussed our options, just in case they had any amazing lift pass thrown in offers or something. We agreed a budget for his search at which point there was a long pause and then he asked if that was per person or for the whole family.
In the end he said we'd need to budget £900 each excluding pass and equipment. This was a budget operator outside peak half term
Loads of other places had similar prices.
Now we're not exactly poor,but how the heck can people budget 4,5,6 or even £7,000 for a week family holiday.
I don't get it, who is their target audience?
Fair enough, our kids are now teens so the days of £2.6k for everything ski weeks are over, but I still struggle with anything approaching three grand all in.
So who doesn't?
Target audience is same as ever, middle class families who want to go skiing.
People pay it, so companies charge it....
Don't get how DIY is stressy though. Book an apartment, book some flights, and hire car, or just drive as it's usually half the price for a family of 4. Then just book some lift passes. What else is there....
I remember someone on here taking out a bank loan to finance their annual ski holiday. Madness.
Check out UCPA/Action Outdoors if your prepared to slum it a bit.
We have given up on ski holidays for the reasons you outlined above.
My kids are now 19 and 14 so are both classed as adults but we are still limited to school holidays and the costs are prohibitive.
Time marches on… you think you still have the same purchasing power you had a few years ago, because you’re paid much the same (hopefully more) in GBP… but it’s an illusion. The “doing quite well” are now the “doing okay” when they hit the reality of markets where customers are from lots of other countries. Still, could be worse, think what it’s like for those whose budget for the family holiday is significantly less than yours… what do they get for their money now?
Now add in that families with older kids are getting screwed for letting them grow old enough to be charged adult rates, but are still learning before working, and you fall into the most expensive holiday demographic there is. Ski as a family again when you have a third earner in your family.
With school trips and all that to pay for, our annual family holiday budget is about £800 for four of us. I'm not feeling much sympathy tbh.
Kelvin
Agree entirely my initial post wasn't intended to imply that I'm in an unfortunate position, far from it. I fully appreciate that even contemplating a ski holiday puts us firmly in the xxx bracket. Was more incredulous that significant numbers of UK families have £10k of their salary left ove for such things....
So who doesn’t?
Check out CFH's annual ski and snowboard thread and you can make list. I'm on it but if I lean out of the window now I can see a ski resort.
Appartemnts are getting more expensive because:
La taxe foncière is increasing much faster than wage inflation as is the taxe d'habitation which is still full rate on second homes. More rules about lifts and safety mean more running costs on the building. The 35hr week increased saleries of cleaners etc. On British run flats recent changes that mean British chalet girls must be paid the French minimum wage and that's doubled or tripled the cost of chalet girls (and rightly so).
Lift passes prices reflect the massive increase in lift infrastructure investment and piste maintenance over the last fifteen years.
Flying is cheaper than ever.
Driving is as cheap as ever it was.
Ski rental for a basic package is cheaper than ever it was
Oh, and Brexit has weakened the pound.
Target audience is same as ever, middle class families who want to go skiing.
We're going with my brother in law and family (3 kids) this Christmas. We go every two years with those guys as that's all they can afford.
They holiday at Eurocamp or not at all in the summer to be able to afford it.
That was us. A week’s skiing with good wrap around childcare (which we used some days and not others) was the one week of the year my wife and I got to spend time during the day just the two of us. A luxury yes, but a fantastic one.
When we first did it, it was £2500, the last one was £6000.
We self cater these days.
The summer holiday was always a lot cheaper.
when we go skiing now, we don't have a foreign holiday in the summer
I realise we're still in a very lucky position, but it's generally skiing one year, holiday the next. Can't afford it otherwise.
The target market is those with 5k plus in disposable income to spunk on a week away (and in many ways as a "second" holiday). I've admitted defeat for this season and there's no way I can take the wife (teacher, so its got to be school holidays) and 2 boys away.
I'd love to say that its getting cheaper to go skiing, but I the glory days of dirt cheap flights, free ski carriage, and flexibility of schools to take children out in term time have gone, and with the seasons changing in front of our eyes I cant see it getting any cheaper.
We ski. We met on a ski trip. When we're not skiing, we're doing stuff to fill time till we can afford a ski trip. We have a caravan that we use to take (relatively) cheap holidays in the UK, so we can save to ski. I'd rather ski the summer hioliday than miss on skiing one year (in fact having first skiied age 26, Id didn;t take a summer holiday for at least the next ten years)
it's all about priorities. I budget about £200 per person per ski day for a trip, but we're lucky that we don't have kids to pay for (pros and cons of not having kids). we do like a bit of comfort on a ski trip though, you could do it MUCH cheaper
Speaking as someone who has mates who have Ski Appts in prime locations:
They are all selling up now, this from very active Skiers who would go twice a year with families. Bought their Appts in said locations back when Skiing "was the thing" and continued over the last 10/15yrs or so to enjoy the "vibe". They've all been quite lucky in that they've bought Appts cheaply and are selling at a higher value now, but not all that much all things considered. Property prices went bonkers in the 00's but now they've seen values stabilise then drop. But they don't care that much since the initial investment has meant they've enjoyed both location and holidays over those years. Kids are now at Uni or finished Uni and entering the world of work. And those Kids aren't interested in Skiing anymore.
I asked the question Why?
And it's sort of typical in the Sports Holiday industry.. Watersports and Wintersports are being hit by a lack of kids "choosing a sport, then sticking with it" And we all know why that is. So many choices and too little time to commit to one sport seems to be where the whole "industry" is in and heading towards.
So, you'd think Skiing would fit in with that "two weeks away in the hills getting some powder" and then onto the next sport..
Seems not.
One of my best mates has owned and run a Ski School in Les Arcs for 15+ years and he's selling up too. Says "it's costing too much to run and people aren't committing to the weeks skiing like they used to" and this is form someone running a full package and part package deals (rentals only and full board alike) Although I do see this as partly him having enough of the hassle or running a company in a place he only lives in for 4mths of the year.. I've seen more of him this year at the sailing club than I've seen him in the years gone by.
So, maybe it's just the cycle of the industry... maybe in a few years it'll pick up again. Who knows.
One main point of my mates argument though is Brexit. Like it or not people aren't spending money on expensive entertainments like they used to. But thats what people voted for, so long may they stay in the UK doing... well... whatever people like that do.
Yeah it's not cheap is it. We DIY it now every time. Even then totting it up its about £3kish for the week for 3 of us in school hols (december - feb was getting to £5k). Flights can be madness but we look to fly from newcastle if english schools are off as the flights can be much cheaper even with a hotel for the night before. Self catering all the way as we prefer it.
But yes, not cheap in any way shape or form.
Well the package operator is obviously taking a cut.
You are avoiding half term - but is it still a peak week (ie when the snow is likely best).
Are you looking at the most well known resorts?
Catered?
Could you book it earlier for the discounts?
Door to door (parking at airport, flights, car hire (including chains - robbing ba&&&rds), fuel, accom, food (inc moderate amount of alcohol), lift pass, ski hire, insurance etc) last year we did it for £650 per person. No package provider and probably 2 full days of shopping around to find the deals get the start and finish days to all together etc. We had left it fairly late though, and were trying different combinations to see if we could go with another family.
Note no instruction in that price. We have been able to get sub £700 pp for family of 4, three times in last ten years. It’s definitely getting harder.
We can’t afford to do it every year, don’t have foreign holidays in the summer and are comfortably off. Those I know who go every year have very well paid jobs, or inherited money that means they have no mortgage. But others will just choose to spend it differently - eg how much have you spent on bikes for the family on average for last three years? Or did you really need a wood burning stove? Or a T5, new Audi etc...
I've asked on here before, weve looked and looked again. It's all around 4k for what we'd need as total beginners. The holiday companies have also got wind of the varying holidays aet by different schools/counties. Are option at the minute is wait to see if there is snow in somewhere like bulgaria and try and book last minute. Fwiw weve never spent over 1500 quid on a family holiday.
We often go at Xmas / NY and the families we meet all have top end professional jobs (C level exec / GPs / Consultants etc). Normally costs about £2k/person for a 5* chalet in school holidays with full area pass etc etc.
I used to be mad for skiing. Going at least twice a year, instructors courses, a regular on forums, touring, all the kit always planning or thinking about the next big trip. Every combination of flying, driving, package, accommodation only, hostels, big mega resorts, small villages, big groups, couples/solo trips has been done over the years.
Now it seems just so much more expensive and I'm not sure I can really be arsed with it all. To the effect that I didn't go last season and probably won't again this season.
Being UK based it feels like such a lot of effort, cost and resources for such a short time actually skiing.
I know a lot of friends who have similar thoughts; it might just be the phase of life bubble we are all in (mid 30s, relationships, mortgages, families, commitments etc) but enthusiasm and demand does seem to have dropped along with price rising.
Most former skiers that I know now spend their leisure time and disposable income on things that are more accessible throughout the year (in the UK and able to form part of an ' active holiday') such as cycling, climbing, kayaking, walking etc.
We did it all independently a week off from 1/2 term this year, it was the first year with the kids and as a family of four I'm not sure there was change from £4k and I think the lift passes were almost 1/4 of that. The apartment was pretty cheap at around £700 and we had a full weeks lessons for the kids which was brilliant giveing us both some time alone and the kids (6 & 8) some structured instruction which they thrived in.
It's a far cry from doing DIY bargain basement, bunkhouse boarding trips I had in my 20s and 30s but it was the best family holiday we've had bar none. Just hope we can afford to do it again next year/soonish/before they're grown up,
To be fair though with a weeks camping in the UK costing at least a grand (all in) and a weeka broad at least £2k, it's not that bad value. Holidays are expensive.
Which campsites are you staying at 😳😳😳😳
a weeks camping in the UK costing at least a grand (all in)
You what?
All in we're spending 3k for a family of 3 in the last week of Jan. Me the wife and our 4 year old daughter. That's flights and passes too.
It's expensive compared to the DIY trips we did before the little one came along but the benefits are almost too many to list. Time to ourselves, structured child care, no cooking etc.
Me and my wife clicked straight away as snow sports was a passion we had in common so we're unlikely to compromise and will always do a winter trip.
We're financially comfortable but even we find it bloomin expensive. We have family all around the UK so we usually spend our summer holidays travelling to meet them all so that's cheap.
We've also warned off the school that she will be taken out of school for a ski trip once a year as I refuse to pay half term prices. Don't know how well that went down.....
To be fair though with a weeks camping in the UK costing at least a grand (all in)
You what now?
We stayed with my sister and her family in a nice new caravan in the lakes (I'd never stayed in one before, it was better than I expected) for less than half of that.
Skiing has always been expensive, I think one of my cheapest trips in recent-ish memory was Italy at something like £800pp half board including passes with Crystal.
Doing it ourselves hasn't been much cheaper but then we've chosen more expensive resorts & nicer accommodation. Driving for us (Glasgow) doesn't really save that much due to the extra £150ish to get to Kent for the train.
Our best value recent trip was probably Whistler. £1000pp half board for 10 days and we got a great (50% off?) deal on passes by booking them early, much cheaper once you're there than France too.
Best way to be able to afford holidays is probably to no have kids 😀
Reading this thread, I've never felt more like a working class scumbag in all my life.
as per all people above , you'll struggle to get anything decent for less than a grand per person.
We're not going this year as I cant afford it, its always been this expensive though, its not a new thing.
Ski package deals have always been expensive. I've been doing it for over 20 years now and have purposely not got the family involved because it would be unaffordable -not without prioritising over summer holidays, which would never fly with the wife, so I go with mates. 20 years ago I used to pay almost £600 for a typical 6 day half board chalet package at a decent resort excluding pass and equipment hire. next year i'm looking at a little over £900 and will be the first year it's broken the £900 barrier, so really over 20 years a price increase of £300 isn't that bad really considering everything that has happened over that time.
Not saying it's good value but it's skiing. It never was good value.r
Whenever I've looked at DIY'ing its never been that much cheaper if you target the good resorts. If you are willing to compromise on the resort or stay 40km out of the resort, you can get it cheaper, but then you run into the risk of having poor conditions or no snow at all....in over 20years I've never had any issues with not having snow as I've always targeted decent high resorts...which are more expensive. But saving a few hundred quid going to a crapper resort is no good if you can't ski because the conditions are crap.
The Brexit Dividend of a devalued pound hasn't helped, probably added 20%. Then the French have tightened rules on hours worked by Chalet hosts, so that has upped costs for catered chalets etc.
I go every year but usually on a black friday half price deal or last minute.com, no kids though so me and the missus have the disposable and can be super flexible on dates/locations. Normally spend 800-1k all in each for a week. The only families I know that take their kids skiing are super wealthy, my other pals who ski, either haven't been since kids arrived or just leave the kids with the grandparents for a week to keep the cost down.
My two learned to ski aged 4 and 6 respectively and that was the annual holiday most of the time. The boy took to it like a duck to water and he's flippin' good too and has continued to ski and snowboard. Of course they were the only kids in their class who didn't go to Florida!
Whenever I’ve looked at DIY’ing its never been that much cheaper if you target the good resorts.
Perhaps if you want plush accommodation with food, but if you're flexible you can do it stacks cheaper. We did Arraba, then Val Gardena then St Anton three years running and paid between £2,200 and £2,700 all in (flights, accommodation, food beer, lunch ,taxis to airport, souvenirs, lift passes, ski carriage, lessons and even some off piste guiding) All at half term.
Just got to be inventive....... Yes dear, of course Frankfurt airport is close to Arabba 🙄
Thinking about it, that probably provides the answer to ads678's comment above....
Don’t get how DIY is stressy though.
Busted. Maybe the wife is right after all.
To be fair though with a weeks camping in the UK costing at least a grand (all in)
You what now?
It is factoring in buying a load of camping gear. ;o)
or
I've been with both several times for the complete coach from Victoria to resort experience 🙂
Skiweekends do lots of flight packages as well.
Was Ok, especially if you can fall asleep on the coach - the seats have a large recline and loads of leg room, not like a normal coach.
Valmeiner was really nice - we had a 1 star Michelin chef that year - got 8 days skiing out of a week whereas flyers get 6ish.
https://www.snowcoach.co.uk/valmeinier-1800-france
Hotel is close to the lifts (across the road).
TBH I used to ski a lot but when you compare to mountain biking their so many similarities that it starts to look like very poor VFM.
Plus if I need that 'carving' feeling I just take my Gotway MSX out for a sping 🙂
Book a holiday somewhere within reach of several Welsh mtb centres instead - with decent waterproofs...
I try to get £1000 all in, with equipment hire. (to include food and drinks too)
Not achieved that in the last couple of years (for which I fully blame the Brexiteers).
Fine for me - if I had to pay for two kids and a partner with lower earnings due to kids (or vice versa) then that changes considerably.
Basically, happy to pay £1200 for a weeks skiing, stuffing my face and drinking as much french house red as I can stomach.
Would not be happy paying £4800 (+ lessons, plus half term tax) for half a weeks skiing, along with half a week of feigning interest in snowplowing down a green; along with evenings and mornings with a colder, more cramped version of child rearing with more clothes to get them into and out of.
for half a weeks skiing, along with half a week of feigning interest in snowplowing down a green; along with evenings and mornings with a colder, more cramped version of child rearing with more clothes to get them into and out of
Ouch. That sounds grim. I guess that is the reality for the first couple of years. But then when they hit eight or so it just gets loads of fun.
Then when they hit double figures then it's just ****in excellent.
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Have a look at Skifix they can be very competitive.
I still recall stopping at the top of some black run in the Dolomites when the wean was 7 years old arguing with his mum about whether it was now time to take him on his first black run.
I lost and so we turned round to go down the red, only to see that he'd already taken the obvious decision and was hammering down the off piste to the side of the black run, whilst his brother took the easier option on the piste itself.
Ouch. That sounds grim. I guess that is the reality for the first couple of years. But then when they hit eight or so it just gets loads of fun.
Then when they hit double figures then it’s just **** excellent.
I still recall stopping at the top of some black run in the Dolomites when the wean was 7 years old arguing with his mum about whether it was now time to take him on his first black run.
Hats off to both of your lads - far better than any English kid I've ever seen out on the slopes.
Hats off to both of your lads – far better than any English kid I’ve ever seen out on the slopes.
WTF??
Nah, there's loads better than them.but I'm happy cos they're damn good fun.
Re the minimum wage in France. I did three seasons working my plumbs off for a uk TO. For a pittance. Never for one moment did I consider that it wasn’t me that had the better deal!
Me being exploited as a teenager.
Last minute deal with in resort agent for a cheap apartment, self cater & Drive. Take as much food as you can, we pre cook and freeze a couple of meals. Shop in the valley. Buy cheap gear on eBay not hire. Forget the cost when you are there, no point worrying by that point!
I used to get away every year. Ive been priced out of the market for the last 4 years (since i had a kid)
Hats off to both of your lads – far better than any English kid I’ve ever seen out on the slopes.
WTF??
In fairness - I've done new year once, the rest I've avoided UK holidays, so only a small segment (the naughty school skipping contingent) that I've seen.
Brit kids:
Age up to 6-7. Spend most of the day on the magic carpet beginner area falling flat on their face.
7-12. In an ESF snake slowly winding down the hill. Seem a bit upset that half the group are french 4 year olds that are far better than them.
13+. Unable to be separated from their friends/siblings on a lift, messing up the queues. Probably stopping in the middle of the slope under blind lips for selfies. Probably in an animal onesie. Want to go back to the chalet at the first hint of less than blue sky conditions.
French/local kids:
Age 3. Spend most of the day on the magic carpet beginner area falling flat on their face.
Age 4-10. Better than most adults. Whether in ski school or with their parents they're a pleasure to be around in the lifts and on the slopes.
11+. Possibly a bit Gallic in their queuing and a bit of arrogance on the slopes as they know they're far better than me, but they fill the lifts and are good enough to avoid all the once a year tourists like me without issue. On the first lift with their parents, and still trying to squeeze in one more run on their own at 4.30.
Good British kids must exist, but they are few and far between.
Poke your head in any of the fridges in the uk on freestyle night or on the dry slopes on race training night likely to see some fairly good kids.
ajaydoubleyou - you really haven't got a ****ing clue.
Totally sympathise with most of the comments, looking on Crystal etc. you think the price looks okay then you start adding on the extras/essentials like ski hire or carriage. The price is not long in adding up.
I did 10 days in Cervinia in April. We booked flights, hire car and accommodation ourselves and it was about £350 for 10 days. Food was dirt cheap as it's italy. Lift pass was a fraction of what you'd pay in France.
MoreCashThanDash
Subscriber
With school trips and all that to pay for, our annual family holiday budget is about £800 for four of us. I’m not feeling much sympathy tbh
agreed!
If only you could ski/snowboard in the UK
I'd love to ski in Scotland but it's the unpredictability of the weather.
For the last 10 years I reckon I've had averaged under 1 day per week where the conditions were bad enough to consider if it's sensible to be out, and even then I'll generally chance it. I also know that if I book a resort with snow cannons then any week from Jan to early April will have enough snow to ski on.
In Scotland, and I accept this may be unfair, my understanding is that you can't plan far in advance as the snow is very mixed. And even if the snow's good the weather will knock things out more regularly.
If only you could ski/snowboard in the UK
Still white on the tops ?
Today? Absolutely.
In Scotland, and I accept this may be unfair, my understanding is that you can’t plan far in advance as the snow is very mixed. And even if the snow’s good the weather will knock things out more regularly.
Oh come now, sometimes you can even plan at 8am to ski at 9am, but perhaps not at 10am as it will have all gone to pot again or the snows all melted (again). Sadly you are right, and I try and do as many days as I can and work at Glenshee PT in season.
Junior at 6 and 9:
No realy way to ski cheaply anymore . I know I am expert at not spending huge amounts on ski holidays
Try January , ok so the days are short and it can be cold but its generally the cheapest weeks
Wait till monday to book for sat/sun. most people will panic as they have booked the time off work but there are always holidays available to somewhere
Try Ski -Drive Erna Low used to be the best way to acheive this as discounted ferry / tunnel prices and SC apartents kept the cost down
Look on Ebay for chalets , or the Chalets Direct webpage. Negotiate dirctly with the owners or put in a 'wanted ' ad
Look to fly out of obscure airports. driving an extra 2 hrs couls save you alot in air fares.
Driving only works if 4 or 5 in a car due to ferry , fuel and tolls
Look at shared transfers using any one of the 6 - 8 bus co's that shuttle out of GVA
sshhhh Rocketski Shhhh were the cheap and cheerful go to option if you can slum it without a hot tub / wellness room.
sshhhh Rocketski Shhhh were the cheap and cheerful go to option if you can slum it without a hot tub / wellness room.
I did a season working as a driver for the company that Rocketski is part of. Some of the guests I picked up what they’d paid for their holiday barely covered the cost of fuel and tolls for my trip to get them.
Self drive, self catering, non-premium resort, liftpasses, lessons for kids, ferry, hotel overnight each way, a handful of meals out, lunch back at the appt., £2000 all in for 2 adults and 2 kids.
We have our own gear, and the kids are kitted head to toe in Aldi ski stuff.
We book in August for Easter, and book skipasses then at 50% off. This year I still need to book the ferry and the lessons.
We also "invest" about £650 in a season pass for Scotland, and try to get 10 days in from December to April. Except for last season and the Cairngorm debacle, we have never regretted it.
Troutwrestler is spot on, although I don't know how you could eat out several times during the week and keep the budget intact.
The only thing I would add would be to hit the big supermarket in the valley for the whole week's shop and take advantage of the pressure cooker on the shelf above the sink in the apartment to cook stews whilst you're out and about on the slopes after lunch.
As Troutwrestler said, Scotland generally is ok, last year excepted. I meet a lot of people at Glenshee who have come up from England for the weekend. The year before that I went boarding in Scotland almost every weekend for 3 months. Fabulous!
As for Europe, there are good deals to be had on Crystal, you just have to check regularly and book early. The only DIY European ski holiday I ever did ended up costing me more and was a huge amount of faff - but that might just be my poor planning.