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Sam Allardyce. He’s not averse to the odd bung either…
That PeoplePolling poll above ^^ is showing a 39% Labour lead.
A thirty-nine percent Labour lead, jeezus
Which is why there's zero chance of an election being called any time soon. 🙁
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
A thirty-nine percent Labour lead, jeezus
That's a bit of a test for even Johnson's inflated opinion of his own political talents. Unless he's entirely delusional, which is a possibility, he might just bottle it. But even then, the support he's already mustered means that he becomes kingmaker and allows him to knife Sunak again.
The Tories don't want to put this to the membership, they just want the frontrunners to come to a cosy agreement to put forward a single candidate. Boris is just basically choosing to screw this up for them before sauntering away laughing to give a few expensive speeches.
Hopefully his intervention will actually split the party.
1922 Committee setting the rules to 100 MP supporters manipulates the process to mean only two, or max of three candidates.
Sunak will get over 100, he did last time
Mourdant might, but probably not.
Johnson will get over 100.
That mean most likely come Monday it is between Sunak and Johnson, at which point it is turned over to the the wonderful party members, and we all know how balanced, sensible and smart they are..
Arise PM Boris.
I feel ill.
Boris actually has to stand to make that happen, though. And for that, he actually has to want to lead the Tories with opinion polls showing them not even being the opposition after a GE, into a winter which would destroy even a relatively popular government.
*deleted - double post
The thing that won't happen:
A bunch of senior tories sit down in a room with Ben Wallace for a few hours and insist he becomes Prime Minister by appealing to his sense of duty and that it is "the right thing to do".
Wisely he doesn't want the job. Thats why he probably the right/only person. He would still lose the next election (those polling figures are terminal and the next couple of years will be worse) but if you want a PM to lead and do the right thing, get a good team around him that he will listen to, be capable of making some hard decisions, not be an idiot and try to calm things down and be respected both at home and abroad (at least a bit) I think he's the only one.
Nope, that will never happen. So we can look forward to some other nutter as PM and a bunch of clowns in the cabinaet, screaming about getting Brexit done better, free markets, crushing the unions, the woke. leftie, labour/snp/liberal/green, pro-NHS, chattering-classes, vegan, guardianista, all those bloody foreigners/slackers/wasters, send em all to Rwanda, channel 4 news-watching, etc. conspiracy. And the Conservative party will still implode/split a variety of exciting ways over the next couple of years, the problem right now is that they are taking the rest of the country with them.
I still want a General Election right now though so we can consign the whole sorry ****show to history and get on with all of the important things.
Which is why there’s zero chance of an election being called any time soon.
I am not sure about that. Now that the Tories can only be fully aware of just how total the collapse in their support is. And it's not just poll after poll but also the constant interviews on the telly of "lifelong" Tory voters, the exasperation of once loyal newspapers, and even Tory MPs publicly denouncing them, if the incoming new Tory leader sees the Labour lead fall to half of what it is now they would be daft not to cut their losses and call a snap election.
If there is one thing that this crisis has taught the Tories it is just how total the collapse in their support can be. A Tory prime minister can now look at polls showing a 10-15% Labour lead and quite reasonably think "well it could be worse".
Avoiding an early general election is simply likely to maintain their extremely high levels of unpopularity rather than enhance their support. Unless of course they believe that everything will magically turn rosy again, eg no cost of living crises, no high inflation, no demand for pay rises, etc. I don't think any of the likely leadership contenders believe that.
Haven't been following that Bonners fella but my god he does make some sweeping generalisations about people who have a different opinion to his doesn't he ?🤔🙄
The News was reporting Boris can count on 140 MP votes this morning... FFS!
Do people really not learn?
QT last night was great* even Rachel Johnson wasn't stupid enough to endorse/talk up her brother and seemed to be advocating for an election, Graham Stuart was a shambles. There were of course a couple of blowhards clearly getting a semi at the idea of Boris staging a comeback.
When the, mostly Tory, Cheltenham audience was asked if there should be a GE, 90%+ hands went up...
I found myself half agreeing with Tony Danker that maybe we should try to have 6 months without changing PM before calling a GE... But then what's going to change? It's the same party, the same splits and same characters in the frame as 12 months ago.
But as destabilising as it might sound I would now honestly welcome Sunak or Mordaunt taking the job and imiediately calling a GE for Dec/Jan because no candidate is going to be able to "unite the party" the splits are just too wide, irrespective of the new PM's 'Comepetance' the infighting will persist...
(*really depends on your definition of "Great" I suppose)
Which is why there’s zero chance of an election being called any time soon. 🙁
Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.
You know when a job becomes so shit and a workplace so toxic that you just have to quit and find another job? A lot of Tory MPs will be feeling like that, and a lot more will if Boris becomes leader again. Remember he didn't quit, he was forced out of office by his close colleagues.
Unless of course they believe that everything will magically turn rosy again, eg no cost of living crises, no high inflation, no demand for pay rises, etc. I don’t think any of the likely leadership contenders believe that.
Yes indeed, there is an impending shit-storm which, in the eyes of voters, will reflect very badly on whoever is PM and whichever party is in power even if it's not directly their fault. As Gordon Brown found out. Just look at how often the 70s were brought up when talking about Corbyn despite that being 40 years past.
If Johnson stands, he'll likely win. If he didn't think he was going to win then he wouldn't stand in the first place.
That said, I have a very poor prediction history.
That PeoplePolling poll above ^^ is showing a 39% Labour lead.
Assuming they're to be believed (no 'verified' tick and the Twitter account is only a few months old), they're claiming a Labour vote share of 53%. That's more than every other party combined. 53:47 is what Brexinomics would call an 'overwhelming majority' or a 'landslide victory' - for simply doing nothing.
Remember he didn’t quit, he was forced out of office by his close colleagues.
But what was the motive behind their determination to force him out?
His lack of integrity? His lying? His poor choice in candidate for Chief Whip which immediately preceded his demise?
Or his perceived electoral liability?
What motivates your average callous self-serving Tory politician?
Could they back someone who for whatever reason might save their seat/arse?
Assuming they’re to be believed (no ‘verified’ tick and the Twitter account is only a few months old), they’re claiming a Labour vote share of 53%.
The last 8 national opinion polls have all shown Labour on more than 50% of the vote.
One even put Labour support on 57% :
https://twitter.com/omnisis/status/1583166416395509760
I think it's yellow vests o'clock. Time to get out on the streets and demand a ge
Do some arm linking and road sitting before that bill goes through
The polling models are broken. Ultimately, everywhere but Lincolnshite could chuck the Tories out if you believe them.
https://twitter.com/christhebarker/status/1583388241805209602?s=21
All comes down to the same thing though, the country wants the Tories out. That isn’t going to change anytime soon. Any hope of a new leader uniting their party and convincing the public that they’ve learnt their lesson and are putting the country first has already been utterly nuked by Johnson even suggesting that he could stand this weekend. He’s killed them, no matter who is leader next week. If they now stay for two years when it is SO clear that they are ruling against the wishes of the voters, then democracy will teach them a hard lesson… they won’t be back for a generation. It won’t be forgotten fast. And the risk for them then is that the younger generations coming through to vote will NEVER be won over longer term either… and they are gone for good.
they’re claiming a Labour vote share of 53%. That’s more than every other party combined.
Made me smile 😉
If you'd have asked me a couple of months back if I thought Blobby should resign then I'd have said yes. If you'd have asked me if I wanted him to resign then I'd have said no.
Same with calling for an immediate GE. Should one be called?...yes. Do I want one to be called....No.
I want the Tories to own this upcoming winter of discontent and call a GE in the spring.
The problem (for Labour) in holding a GE before Christmas, is that they'd have no time to really prepare a proper manifesto or form some solid policies, and if they did win, they'd then have the poisoned chalice of this coming winter, where many people will die through cold and malnutrition. Would they have time to force price reductions from the energy companies? I can't see that happening under Starmer. The tories have done so much damage, they'd be leaving nothing but smoking ruins for their successors to have to try and fix. Perhaps it would be better to wait until after winter, then push for a GE with a tide of anger behind them; this would maybe enable them to form some decent much needed socially beneficial plans, such as a programme of nationalisation of utilities, control of transport, a pledge to make education more accessible, and a reversal of the creeping privatisation of the NHS. Trouble is; a lot of what's happening now is a result of New Labour's actions. And I can't see Starmer reversing much of that.
has already been utterly nuked by Johnson
I watched the news at 6.00PM last night and they seemed to have little difficulty in finding plenty of regular folks to vox-pop who expressed that they wanted to see a return of Johnson to PM, and spoke about him in glowing terms. There was even one chap who said that he thought Truss could get over the issues facing her and go on the lead the country successfully, it had to be explained to him that she'd resigned already.
But what was the motive behind their determination to force him out?
Because he kept stitching them up and making them look stupid. At least, that was the final straw. There may have been others.
regular folks to vox-pop who expressed that they wanted to see a return of Johnson to PM
Yes, some people absolute love him, inside and outside his party. And others see him for what he is. Even more do now after his time in office. That divide will now further wreck his party. Whether he stands or not. He’s already changed MP interviews from “finding a candidate to unite behind” to “it can only be Boris” or “it needs to be anyone but Boris”. He’s ruined any chance of the next week being a calm change of leader and a veneer of unity and national interest being applied to the party in power.
"Trouble is; a lot of what’s happening now is a result of New Labour’s actions. And I can’t see Starmer reversing much of that."
No it isn't. Whilst New Labour inevitably effected the trajectory of the UK this is all on the Tories.
I'd argue that Corbyns dragging of the Labour Party towards the precipice and aquiessance with Brexit have a lot more to do with where we are now than anything Blair and Brown did.
But ultimately this isn't Corbyns fault either, it's those who have governed for the last 12 years. This isnt a counterfactual blame game, its a game of clear and present danger.
No it isn’t. Whilst New Labour inevitably effected the trajectory of the UK this is all on the Tories.
It was New Labour who started the stealth privatisation of the NHS through the PFI scam, The Foundation Trust scam, and the 'Unsustainable Provider' scam which saw the sell off of NHS land and properties. It was New Labour who accelerated the tory plan to stop free university education and make students pay for it, it was New Labour who courted big business at the expense of working people. It was New Labour that took us into an illegal war which saw the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and caused a humanitarian crisis which will last many decades into the future.
I’d argue that Corbyns dragging of the Labour Party towards the precipice and aquiessance with Brexit have a lot more to do with where we are now than anything Blair and Brown did.
But ultimately this isn’t Corbyns fault either
Blair and Brown were in power. The tories simply carried on their work. We are where we are right now, as a direct result of New Labour. Margaret Thatcher, when asked what her greatest legacy was, said 'Tony Blair'. That says it all.
I agree. Even the most selfish of self interested Tory MPs ought to be able to see that reinstating the unflushable turd cannot ever achieve a united party that will rally behind a capable leader. It is madness, even going by the moronic standards of the last few years of Tory misrule.
On the other thread I was all like
But, FFS, 179 of the flipping Tory party resigned because of him. The sodding Tory party. The Tory party, after it had been taken over by UKIP, no less. That party, with all the ethics it has*, walked out on him. It’s just not a tenable position to even consider him for the job.
* i.e. none, just to be perfectly clear.
If you had a ven diagram with those MP's who want to see Johnson's return in one circle, the other containing those who could match their parliamentary income in the real world I, reckon the only persons who could occupy the overlap would be Mad Nad and Lynch Mobb.
I watched the news at 6.00PM last night and they seemed to have little difficulty in finding plenty of regular folks to vox-pop who expressed that they wanted to see a return of Johnson to PM
Maybe the BBC are showing these people so the MPs watching think thats what us plebs want and so give it to us, then the party that keeps threatening to defund them goes into the electoral abyss
PFI was introduced by tories under john major.
The attractions of off balance sheet finance were obvious but there was little, if any, proper scrutiny of the long term costs.
New labour expanded the use of PFI.
Trouble is; a lot of what’s happening now is a result of New Labour’s actions. And I can’t see Starmer reversing much of that.
No it isn't.
Everything that New Labour did 12+ years ago pales into insignificance alongside the wrecking ball that the Tories have been wielding.
What I will grant you is that some of it goes back to that "bigoted old woman" that Gordon Brown met. The fact he went crawling back to her apologising for saying what was true - she was thick and bigoted and needed to be told that - meant that views like hers suddenly had some legitimacy behind them, the other thick and bigoted people thought they were valid views. Views later courted and weaponised for Brexit.
Same with calling for an immediate GE. Should one be called?…yes. Do I want one to be called….No.
I want the Tories to own this upcoming winter of discontent and call a GE in the spring.
+1. The last thing we need now is Labour being anywhere near this oncoming train wreck of a winter.. let's keep it coloured blue, just to be clear to all the thick people who still don't realise/ admit whose fault this is.
Oh look...
Trouble is; a lot of what’s happening now is a result of New Labour’s actions.
grahamt1980 Full Member
<People Polling poll results and word map>
I love this
The sad thing about this for me is that the primary associations with the Tories in that wordmap are things like useless, shambles, incompetent and chaotic. Corrupt, selfish, greedy and the like are quite a lot less important. If the Tories started to seem competent again I am worried that their support would start to return.
I take it all back. Ben Wallace has just counted himself out of the leadership election and is "leaning towards backing Boris Johnson"... 8-0
Well, there you go. We all know whats going to happen next week. Arrrrggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
It was New Labour who started the stealth privatisation of the NHS
Before New Labour it wasn't uncommon for folks to die on a waiting list, after their reforms (the 18 weeks wait) that stopped and equally the need to spends thousands on private surgery. That and Blair's commitment to equal European spending levels was transformational. The NHS today s back to where we were pre 1997.
That's the Tory's legacy
No it isn’t.
Yes it is.
Everything that New Labour did 12+ years ago pales into insignificance alongside the wrecking ball that the Tories have been wielding.
See: Iraq and Afghanistan wars. And whilst New Labour may not have caused as much damage domestically, what they did do was lay the way for the tories to continue as they wanted to; IE, make themselves and their friends richer at the expense of the rest of us. Now I don't blame the entire Labour Party for those illegal wars, or indeed much of the damage that the party leadership helped enable, but the party has to acknowledge and take responsibility for its past mistakes.
Before New Labour it wasn’t uncommon for folks to die on a waiting list, after their reforms (the 18 weeks wait) that stopped and equally the need to spends thousands on private surgery
That's a pretty revisionist view of what really happened. The benefits were very temporary; the long lasting damage much more permanent. Blair's 'reforms' left the public with a much, much larger bill for healthcare, and the inevitable decline in standards. Billions were wasted in dodgy contracts and failed IT systems. Healthcare was taken out of the hands of clinicians, and put into the pockets of the rich. Blair did not leave the NHS in a healthy condition.
The NHS today s back to where we were pre 1997.
I remember it as being a lot better in the 70s, 80s and 90s when I was growing up, to what it is now.
just to be clear to all the thick people who still don’t realise/ admit whose fault this is.
Oh look…
Intelligent. Don't understand something; call someone else 'thick'.
What I will grant you is that some of it goes back to that “bigoted old woman” that Gordon Brown met. The fact he went crawling back to her apologising for saying what was true – she was thick and bigoted and needed to be told that – meant that views like hers suddenly had some legitimacy behind them, the other thick and bigoted people thought they were valid views. Views later courted and weaponised for Brexit.
And there you have it; the privileged elite labelling people as 'bigots', without bothering to try to understand where their fears came from. And you wonder why Labour lost so many voters?
We need a change of government. We need a Labour government.But we need a Labour government that will actually bring about the changes our society needs, not to just paper over the cracks.
That’s the Tory’s legacy
You sound like everyone I know who works within the NHS. They (and you) need to be listened to.
The problem (for Labour) in holding a GE before Christmas, is that they’d have no time to really prepare a proper manifesto or form some solid policies,
A few years ago, I was queuing in a rammed, understaffed fast-food restaurant (I think KFC, but that's not important). Ahead of me was a couple of women with a pack of semi-feral children in tow, maybe eight kids between them. We'd been there, I don't know, 20 minutes maybe, it felt like a lifetime. Finally the queue moves and the group gets to be served, I'm already quietly gnawing enamel off my teeth at the prospect that they're going to order half the store when I'm there for an off-the-holding-pen burger for my other half. The server asks to take the order and the women THEN turn to all the kids, "OK, what do you want?"
What the **** has Labour been doing for the last decade? Has 'not being in power' come as a sudden surprise this week?
It's going to be Boris. I detest the man, but I think he is the only person who the rabble of children that are our Tory MPs will actually fall in line behind.
And even the Tory MPs who do hate him probably realise that the party is too broken for any other leader to have a chance. I'm sure a few Tory MPs will resign but not enough to stop Boris losing his overall support.
Then by the next election all this will be forgotten and we will vote him in again.
And then Trump will be elected too.
Gawd that was depressing to write.
Further prediction: The final clincher to win the day for Boris will be a quick trip to Ukraine early next week for a photoshoot with Zelensky
There have been a few pundits talking about the Tories facing an "existential threat" and totally self-destructing, which I've taken with a large pinch of salt.
But if they do manage to re-elect Johnson as leader, then just maybe...
Before New Labour it wasn’t uncommon for folks to die on a waiting list
...
That’s the Tory’s legacy
The Tories' legacy is that they resolved this problem by creating a system whereby there was a waiting list to be put onto the waiting list. Result, the number of people dying on waiting lists plummets.
Say what you like about the Tories but they are exceptionally talented at massaging numbers. They've done this time and again. Extra policemen, anyone? NHS investment? As the adage (almost) goes, there are lies, damn lies, statistics, and Tory spin.
The claim
The problem (for Labour) in holding a GE before Christmas, is that they’d have no time to really prepare a proper manifesto or form some solid policies,
What Keir Starmer actually said:
“There’s a manifesto that is going to be ready whenever an election is called,” Sir Keir told the BBC’s Newscast podcast.
“I’ve had a team working on that. I’ve had a team working on general election preparedness. We’ve moved our teams on to a general election footing. And I’ve got in place all the grids I need for a general election. So we’re very, very prepared should there be a general election.”
"What the **** has Labour been doing for the last decade?"
Well for the past few years nearly every policy they have proposed has been adopted by the Tories eventually...
You do know they aren't actually in government don't you?
And you do realise that any plan they had prepared has been ripped up by the mini budget and they have no idea what the nations finances actually look like at the moment owing to the government avoiding any independent scrutiny of their last few economic plans?
I think he is the only person who the rabble of children that are our Tory MPs will actually fall in line behind.
I'm hoping they fall in behind him like they did a few months ago. He is not a uniting force for the Tories, quite the opposite.
The problem for the Tories is that there is no unity candidate. So hopefully they will vote for the one which makes their internal divisions worsen and hasten its collapse.
We need a change of government. We need a Labour government.But we need a Labour government that will actually bring about the changes our society needs, not to just paper over the cracks.
Dare I say it, Beggars can't be Choosers... especially at this point.
We're looking down the barrel of another 18-24 months of Tory chaos, but they have the relatively easy 'out' of calling a GE and effectively handing the whole sorry shitstorm over to Labour, who are seemingly willing to take the task on, do you really want to quibble over the Blair/Brown years right now?
I kind of feel like anyone keen to tell us how "Labour lack a plan" or that Labour need to affect real change, must have slept through the last couple of years. You are living under a conservative government that has just cut it's own head off for the third time in a row, that tried to Cut taxes for the rich and in doing so jacked up everyone's mortgage (or rent as a knock on), who have presided over growth... in food-banks, laid waste to the NHS and and is now seriously threatening to reinstall the lying scumbag that they finally got shot of only 6 weeks ago...
But it's still Labour that need to prove something to you about their fitness to govern?
do you really want to quibble over the Blair/Brown years right now?
If you want to learn why a house’s foundations collapsed, then it’s a waste of time focussing on the roofers. If Labour want to govern effectively, then they have to look at their own mistakes and learn from them. They have to think about the long term, because that’s what will help keep them in power and keep the tories out.
Ignoring why the foundations failed, will just lead to another collapse.
But it’s still Labour that need to prove something to you about their fitness to govern?
They need to convince a majority of the electorate. Right now, it looks like they could sleepwalk their way into Downing Street. But they still need a plan. Merely relying on ‘we’re not the tories’ isn’t really enough when the nation needs rebuilding.
So if we do get a GE you're feeling more inclined to vote Tory right now?
If you want to learn why a house’s foundations collapsed, then it’s a waste of time focussing on the roofers. If Labour want to govern effectively, then they have to look at their own mistakes and learn from them. They have to think about the long term, because that’s what will help keep them in power and keep the tories out.
Ignoring why the foundations failed, will just lead to another collapse.
It's a lovely analogy I suppose But the thing with building collapses is if you find yourself caught in one you generally don't start trying to assign blame then and there, you either look for escape options (Damn someone took away my freedom of movement) or if someone is offering you an Acrow prop you bloody take it and ask where they got it later...
I'm sure we'll all be able to revise history to our heart's content at some later date, and decide if we want to assign blame to the original Thatcherite/Neo-Lib builders, some dodgy git who cobbled on an extension a couple of decades ago or the maniacs that were swinging sledgehammers about 10 minutes before the roof caved in...
But right now I'm inclined not to let 'Smasher Johnson and Co. demolitions' try to save the building...
He is not a uniting force for the Tories, quite the opposite.
How about the least dividing force? He is the only candidate who can claim that there are at least some people in the country (however deluded) who actually actively like him.
If you want to learn why a house’s foundations collapsed
The problem that the Tories have isn't what new labour did 30 years ago. The problem that they have is that to be their leader you have to be able to both agree that it was a really great idea to hole the ship under the waterline in 2016, whilst at the same time act convincingly baffled as to why it's been sinking ever since.
That’s a pretty revisionist view of what really happened.
It really isn't. It's actually pretty straightforward. You give clinicians enough money to run it properly, you give them one or two targets to reach, you treat them like professionals, and let them get on with it. Even at the height of the "internal market" the private sector was doing something like just 5% of the sorts of routine surgeries that the rest of the NHS could do. Waiting lists for heart surgery went from hundreds to the low twenties.
I remember it as being a lot better in the 70s, 80s and 90s when I was growing up, to what it is now.
So what? Your personal reflections of your own experiences of historic treatment by the NHS are literally worthless as data, sorry.
It’s official, Penny Mordant aka cosplaying naval officer has thrown her fake persona into the ring.
It really isn’t.
It really is.
The problem that the Tories have isn’t what new labour did 30 years ago
It very much is. As I said before; New Labour laid the foundations for what thew tories then did to the NHS. Anything that wasn't 'profitable', such as mental health care, got slashed. Costs rocketed, with the public footing the bill. I'm not saying New Labour were 100% to blame for what has happened since, but those responsible still need to be held accountable for their actions. Whilst waiting lists went down, other services suffered. New Labour's 1997 pledge was: “Our fundamental purpose is simple but hugely important: to restore the NHS as a public service working co-operatively for patients, not a commercial business driven by competition.” Yet here we are.
So what? Your personal reflections of your own experiences of historic treatment by the NHS are literally worthless as data, sorry
I wasn't actually arguing with you, merely pointing out that the current situation may well be worse than it was 30, 40, 50 years ago. The NHS was probably at it's best (in modern times at least) under New Labour from 1997-2010. At least it matched most of the rest of Europe. But so what? That should be the minimum. but huge mistakes were made, and should not be repeated.
So if we do get a GE you’re feeling more inclined to vote Tory right now?
How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Bizarre. You missed my point; whilst we do indeed desperately need a new government, we need one that will be effective in reversing the damage the tories have done, which means a lot of re-nationalisation/un-privatisation, lots of investment in crucial areas, and one which is going to stand up to money and stop the corruption and rot that is bleeding our society dry. Currently, I am not convinced Labour under Starmer is capable of that. That doesn't mean I'm going to vote tory though, that's just ridiculous.
"What Keir Starmer actually said:"
Nothing, then. No actual policies, no actual manifesto, just 'we'll have one if and when needed'. Hardly convincing, is it? Where is then Kier? Up your arse? Pull it out ffs. Show some balls. Not Ed, though. Nobody needs to see that.
No actual policies
Plenty were announced at the Labour Party Conference, and have been repeated recently, including at the TUC only, what.. yesterday? You can choose what news to follow you know.
no actual manifesto
Not 'till the election is called, no.
The Tories will need to publish one then as well... and get behind it... that'll be interesting.
Nothing, then. No actual policies, no actual manifesto, just ‘we’ll have one if and when needed’.
As per page 1 or 2, manifestos are put out once there's an election date set.
They obviously had manifestos when there were elections in 2019, 2017 etc.
I don't think you're making the point that you think you're making here.
It’s official, Penny Mordant aka cosplaying naval officer has thrown her fake persona into the ring.
Yess! Penny fan here. She should've got it the first time round. Great hair, but a Boris return would be funnier.
"No actual policies"
Are you that guy from the Question Time audience in Newcastle last June??
Not ’till the election is called, no.
Why not just put one out now anyway? Why not just announce some clear policies?
Plenty were announced at the Labour Party Conference, and have been repeated recently, including at the TUC only, what.. yesterday?
I've read Starmer's speech. Something about New Deal (ooh, that's original...), something something Green, repealing the 2016 Trade union act is good though, but minimum for Labour really.
That’s why we’ll end fire and rehire…
ban zero-hour contracts…
extend parental leave…
strengthen flexible working…
better protections for pregnant women…
mandatory reporting on ethnicity pay gaps…
statutory sick pay for all…
a single worker status…
Again, standard fare for Labour. Pretty sure Corbyn said all of this. I'm still not hearing anything new. He's still steering clear of committing to re-nationalisation of public utilities, reversing the privatisation of the NHS, making university education free for all again, stamping out corruption and cronyism, etc etc. The average person in the street won't pay any attention to the TUC conference, they need to hear stuff over and over again, that reassures them. And in this respect, Starmer has largely been silent. It's been people like Mick Lynch that have held more truth to power. We need more people like that. But Starmer doesn't like people like that...
I don’t think you’re making the point that you think you’re making here.
So, please tell me; what is it?
kelvin
Full MemberPlenty were announced at the Labour Party Conference, and have been repeated recently, including at the TUC only, what.. yesterday? You can choose what news to follow you know.
I mean, yes, but at least one of those new policies at the conference was an old policy that he'd promised when first becoming leader and then u-turned on. So you have to forgive people if they don't put a huge amount of faith in it. I liked what I heard at the conference but I've little faith that it'll still be policy in 5 minutes, one bad focus group and it could all change again
but at least one of those new policies at the conference was an old policy that he’d promised when first becoming leader and then u-turned on
Which is that?
Hard to see anyone but Johnson - if he gets on the ballot with the members he'll walk in. Just a sign of how utterly ****ed we are.
Which is that?
Okay... I'm going to guess energy...
Labour have dumped nationalisation of existing energy companies, and are now proposing using government money to create new extra renewable energy production, to help speed up the transition away from fossil fuels. Increasing public ownership but not through nationalisation. It's not as much as I'd like, but it's a policy that can help the country genuinely green up its energy supply, improve energy security, and doesn't use money buying up existing energy production... especially fossil fuel production which we arguably should be aiming to wean the country off rather than taking ownership of just as we enter an age where we want rid of it.
Penny fan here. Great hair,
Good to know folk have got their eye on the key issues.
If we're going to have some incompetent Tory blonde bimbo in No10 we might as well go for a different one to last time.
I’ve found secret footage of suella braverman reaction to the news that Boris is standing for pm
https://twitter.com/rainmaker1973/status/1582752033509363714?s=61&t=gXSzoWJ3gmpqvrN1dnhlQA
Why not just put one out now anyway? Why not just announce some clear policies?
Why should they?
Why give the conservative party enough time to come up with either conter policies, exceedingly similar policies or ammunition to tear those policies down.
Why give the right wing media time to metaphorically shred a manifesto before election time?
Holding it back is absolutely the right choice.
If we’re going to have some incompetent Tory blonde bimbo in No10 we might as well go for a different one to last time.
Stop being mean about Penny!
Look how nice she looks. According to the article it's 'Ms Mordaunt'. Seems like there might be yet another vacancy. I could be posting on STW in future from No 10...
BBC reporting Truss's local cons association are grumbling because 20% don't have email and won't be able to vote 🙂
Personally since 2016 my view of the population has changed massively, I used to think the majority were pretty well educated to a point they could understand simple arguments and make up their own minds, but that was proven not to be the case, it's changed me as a person, barely anyone gets the benefit of the doubt anymore, I've become more judgemental, in my head I'm thinking most people are selfish idiots unless proven otherwise, prior to 2016 I felt the other way around.
If Johnson does get back in, it yet again proves we're still alright with digging a deeper pit of grimness, I just can't get my head around it, it was bad enough people like Piers Morgan are able to weedle themselves back into public favour, Johnson only left a few months back in utter disgrace.
He will get it though, he's the only one the Torys can hope to pull them through the next election but by Christ we've got to put up with mistake after mistake after mistake for another 2 years
Sorry, Waffling/venting - absolutely boils my piss we have to put up with this crap
Hmmmmm Penny! Great hair, great voice, authoritative, may be good with a whip…!? 🤔
It looks like the leadership contest will be a very tricky one for Tories. Much much trickier than previous leadership contest. I have a sneaky feeling Boris will become a PM again due to his popularity with the people. Strange time will create strange thing and another history in the making. Yes, there are also many people who hate to see Boris as PM again but this is a calculated risk Tories will have to take, because the other leadership contestants are untested. As long as Tories think Boris can give them the best chance to remain in the govt, he will be back as PM again.
I prefer Penny Mordaunt for a "fresh" start but rumour has it that she wants to retain Jeremy Hunt as Chancellor, if that is the case she will just put herself at a disadvantage. Jeremy Hunt should be kept as far away as possible.
He will get it though, he’s the only one the Torys can hope to pull them through the next election but by Christ we’ve got to put up with mistake after mistake after mistake for another 2 years
Assuming he gets to become PM again, he will face plenty of challenges in 2 years time and may not even be the leader leading the party into the next GE.nBut if he can ditch his "clown" act he can be a formidable leader.
scratch - level of education in UK is, generally, poor.
I'm completely unsurprised that relatively simple arguments are beyong the cognitive abilities of many.
Rather than make any attempt to inform or educate themselves, too many have a quick look at front pages of Sun/Mail/Express and mix that with whatever they've skimmed from FB and Twitter.
We've been living with the result of that.
Others just tune out completely - politicians won't do anything for me so why should I care.
I have a sneaky feeling Boris will become a PM again due to his popularity with the people.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1583507516818075650?s=20&t=dCa6dlYqQJ9y6t13mVL8SQ
You’d have got that feedback before he even became leader the first time round! 🤣🤣
Pollsters @Omnisis just asked voters what one word they would use to describe Boris Johnson. Here's what they found. pic.twitter.com/fSXi84vbH6
— Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) October 21, 2022
That is a risk Tories will have to take with Boris. He might just bomb completely or might see them through for a while.
Has boris put his name in the hat?
with rolling black outs on the horizon you'd be nuts to go for it now! it's going to be the 3 day week all over again.
...But if he can ditch his “clown” act he can be a formidable leader.
😂😂😂
Utterly ****ing delusional...
A nation sliding down the shitter and certain people still seem to think they can put a positive spin on Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson, or make out that he's just one minor tweak of his character traits away from being PM material...
There's a palpable feeling in the air isn't there, Christmas is coming early for the nutters. They're getting Boris back, they're increasingly certain of it. He's going to ride that wave of libertarian ****tery right back into No.10.
This time next week Carrie will be reclining on the Chaise while he sits back in his Leather armchair both watching the news channels going bonkers... Our hero sits alternately swigging from a bottle of Bollinger in one hand taking bites from a family sized pork pie clutched in his other meaty fist.
"The Fools..." he'll utter through a cloud of pasty crumbs and spittle, a cruel sneer plastered across his chops. Carrie will giggle, he answers with a chortle, it escalates until ten minutes later They're laughing maniacally at how the combination of their good fortune and a nation's stupidity has landed them back where they started. An hour after that He'll deliver a speech that contains the word 'delivering' 37 times in three and a half minutes. 27 weeks after that He'll deliver by turning every NHS trust into a "franchise" selling the first one to Cigna Corp...
johnson won't do anything unless and until he's as certain as he can be that he's got 100+ backers.
I don't think it's anywhere near a given that he'll stand.
Liz Truss's local Tory chair warns against 'stitch up'
The chairman of Liz Truss's local Conservative association has voiced concern that around 20% of his local membership won't get the chance to vote because they're not on email.
Confirms a lot of what binners said in a post yesterday.😂
These relics are potentially deciding the fate of the country and they can't set up a bloody email address.
Let's face it, they don't even have net access.
We are skrewed.