[Closed] Who hikes without paper maps?

I like to have one as it's nice to look at in the pub after but I don't think it is a very useful tool when out and about. I'd rather have a back up digital device for actual navigation.

Depends on which hills and how remote.

Maps are ace though, and can't get enough of studying them offline.

I hardly ever carry a full OS sheet, no need for most activities. I do usually take the appropriate section in a polypocket. I find it simpler to use the map for a quick check of something than using a device.

I have on occasion gone to the hills with no paper map and just an electronic device. In some circumstances I think that's fine but there are plenty of people out there who would absolutely rip you apart for that. Feelings run surprisingly strongly on the issue!

I use the OS maps app for navigation and have taken paper maps as a backup when I'm not familiar with the area, but I don't think I've ever opened them outside of the house!

OS maps app on a phone works for me.

Not done for years.

I plan walks/rides on bike bike which gives me full UK 1:50k. Occasionally I'll use other sites if I want 1:25k or side by side satellite views. Better than paper as you get more information.

On the hill I use my Garmin 1000 primarily. Phones as a backup.

A4 printout (so poor res) as backup if I'm on unfamiliar terrain or gonna be out all day but only in addition to OS maps app synced up and checked as offline for that trip (as the downloaded maps often aren't...).

Depends where I'm walking. If it's a Munro or two on a well know route, probably not. I've done a couple of multi day hikes across Scotland and Romania and I brought a map and detailed notes with me for those and was very glad to have them!

Have done plenty of times. Specially on Euro road trips where you're planning on the hoof and it's not really feasible to buy decent hiking maps for everywhere you might go, or to find one when you decide you're going to head there and hike/ride *that* the next day. But downloading open source amps for the areas you're heading to and whack them on a decent mapping GPS - very easy.

Also depends on what kind of route you're doing and how likely it is be that you're going to have to make big changes to your route.

I started a big ride in a group a little while ago and we had to make the 100 mile circular route into a 50 miler after about 25 miles. To decide on a decent off road route from point to point means having all the detail on one "sheet" you can see all at once. And a map's a lot easier to carry than a laptop with a big screen.

In the pre-GPS days I used to navigate using laminated photocopies of map sections. In winter, where the winds can be really fierce, the smallest possible map in your hand is a big advantage as anything large will just vanish the next time a 100mph gust hits you. You also tend to only use 1:50k in winter as most of the extra features on 1:25k are buried by snow and you mainly navigate by contours.

These days I just use OS Maps App on my phone with an unopened map in my rucksack as a last resort (which I've never had to resort to).

as anything large will just vanish the next time a 100mph gust hits you.

If that's what's happening the size of the map wasn't your first or worst mistake of the day!

A4 OS printout of the map with route highlighted on for hiking.

Only own 1 paper map, OS of my local area we were all given in school geography. I have no idea where it is.

I love maps and can study them for hours planning mtb and walking routes. Carrying and folding a table sized bit of paper around a windy and raining hill side does not appeal though.

If that’s what’s happening the size of the map wasn’t your first or worst mistake of the day!

We used to go out regardless of the weather - storms were used for navigation practice on the Cairngorm plateau - got quite used to wandering round blind (white out) being knocked to our knees with each gust. I'd shit myself if I went out in those conditions now.

Somewhere in the Cairngorms in the 90s, on a 'clear' day 😉

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I’d shit myself if I went out in those conditions now.

And rightly so because it's a stupid and dangerous thing to do. The kind of thing one does when young and dumb. Fortunately most of us survive that phase but it's important to recognise the role of luck in that and not chalk it all up to skill or ability.

OS app on phone and a printout of the local area - laminated if weather to be iffy. So I do take a "map" but not the OS printed map.

Depends
Scotland - OS app + paper map / compass back up
Yorkshire Dales - just an OS app

Sometimes just use a map and compass so I don't lose the skill. Must admit I sometimes miss that air of uncertainty, decision making whether to continue or turn back, arguing over a map as to where we think we are, finding bothy, summit and features in a white out etc etc.

I always have in the past but on longer treks where a few sheets are needed it becomes a pain. for the 350 mile trek we are planning carrying OS sheets will really not be possible. I think so long as you have a back up device and one that will function "dumb" ie not need a data connection its probably acceptable

Relying on one electronic device is foolhardy

for day trips I will always take a paper map

You can do things with paper maps that are very difficult with electronic devices like take a bearing on a distant mountaintop

I would always recommend a power bank/ spare device if navigating by phone- GPS use and cold weather sucks battery and it's often late in the day when things start to unravel. This is important both for continued navigation and if you need to communicate in an emergency. Across lakes MR it's not unusual to receive the first call from lost/injured parties with battery life <20% before we start to talk them down/help them self rescue where possible.

And rightly so because it’s a stupid and dangerous thing to do. The kind of thing one does when young and dumb. Fortunately most of us survive that phase but it’s important to recognise the role of luck in that and not chalk it all up to skill or ability.

Not really, I used to do a lot of climbing and teaching winter mountaineering so you need a lot of practice in those conditions to be very comfortable in them and also to be able to take students up on the plateau in zero vis and make them navigate blind from cairn to cairn etc.

If you sit Winter ML assesment with Glenmore Lodge there's pretty much no weather conditions they won't have you out in navigating (or certainly was in the 90s).

In really bad visibility, where you wouldn't see a cornice until you fell through it, you'd rope up in three ideally, short roping with maybe 10m between each person. You can then use the line of people as a reverse bearing to check you're really travelling in the right direction.

Most of the practice part is just mentally tuning out the panic and operating calmly in very challenging conditions, you just navigate very slowly being very methodical. It just takes a lot of practice to ignore the wind etc and remain rational when it's really howling around you.

I generally don't carry the paper version anymore, i'll normally have it on my phone and make sure it's on my wifes phone as a back up.

You can do things with paper maps that are very difficult with electronic devices like take a bearing on a distant mountaintop

But you're only likely to be doing that to establish/confirm your position, aren't you? And if you've got a little electronic map in your hand that says "you are here" why would you need to?

If you don't take a map your are likely not to have a compass on you and even less likely to use it. That means you aren't practicing walking on a bearing and pacing. Which means some of the fundamentals of navigation aren't being practiced and you are reliant on the battery life of your device and the quality of the built-in compass. You aren't trying to read the land and visualise what the map is telling you, instead you are looking for the little arrow and how it's changed since you last checked.

As a luddite I use the map and compass as primary and the GPS mapping on my phone as back up and a cross check when not sure/lazy. I'm teaching the kids using map and compass. I am aware I look quaint by using one.

Maps don't blow like tablecloths in the wind if you fold them properly.

If you don’t take a map your are likely not to have a compass on you and even less likely to use it. That means you aren’t practicing walking on a bearing and pacing. Which means some of the fundamentals of navigation aren’t being practiced and you are reliant on the battery life of your device and the quality of the built-in compass

Yes and no.

Yes I'm not getting the practice but I reckon I could manage well enough if I had to....

As for bearings, all a lot simpler now as you don't have to add / subtract 5 degrees. IIRC the declination in the UK is now around zero degrees.

But you’re only likely to be doing that to establish/confirm your position, aren’t you? And if you’ve got a little electronic map in your hand that says “you are here” why would you need to?

if your electronic device fails? GPs goes down? or if you need to walk on a bearing? its easier to walk towards something on the horizon than it is to follw a little arrow on a small screen Or simply if yo want to know what it is you are seeing

the beauty of a paper map is nothing can go wrong with it.

Not really, I used to do a lot of climbing and teaching winter mountaineering so you need a lot of practice in those conditions

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. There's a big difference between going out in poor conditions and being able to deal with them safely and going out in dangerous conditions where it's a delusion to think you can deal with them safely. 100mph winds on the plateau in winter is definitely the latter. You might get away with it on numerous occasions which is part of the problem because many people will take that as confirmation that they made the right decisions.

Maybe Lodge groups did go onto the plateau in those kind of conditions in the 90s, I don't know. From what I see from pals who work there now that's not likely. There's a lot of emphasis on not being overconfident in one's ability to cope with difficult conditions and recognising the limits of one's skills and abilities. That's something that can get harder to do as experience and confidence grows.

I don’t bring a paper map, sometimes an OS printout,

You don't take a paper map, you take a map that's on paper?

the beauty of a paper map is nothing can go wrong with it.

In my case there is still plenty of room for operator error

I bring a map unless I know the area really well (enough to be able to do escape routes in my head from anywhere I might end up).

the beauty of a paper map is nothing can go wrong with it.

It can get blown away.
It can get too wet to be useful.
It can be out of date.

if your electronic device fails? GPs goes down?

You've said you didn't need a paper map on 350mile hike, but that it's nice on shorter hikes. You've answered the reliability question already. Unless it's for practice? For really big outings when you don't have a map?

or if you need to walk on a bearing? its easier to walk towards something on the horizon than it is to follow a little arrow on a small screen

If you can see it and you're looking at it, you don't need a bearing? You need the bearing if you're in blank terrain in a whiteout or up and down in valleys. In both cases you'll be checking against a little compass or a little screen? And non-bike specific units will have a navigate to bearing function anyway.

Or simply if you want to know what it is you are seeing

That's fair enough!

its not that I do not need a paper map for that 350miler - its that its impractical to carry them I think We are still discussing what to do, We may take a 4 prints of tricky navigation bits.

If you can see it and you’re looking at it, you don’t need a bearing?

I was thinking of the situation where yo uknow yo need to walk so far on such and such a bearing - you then look for a landmark on the horizon on that bearing Its just easier on a paper map

OS app on phone, GPS with replacement batteries. I have maps and a compass, but rarely see the need to take one with me - most stuff I'm doing is local / routes I've done before. If I get into conditions nearing white-out I'll be re-tracing my steps back to the car - my days of going out in 'filthy' conditions are long gone. These days, weather forecast apps on phones are pretty good, so you have a good idea of what conditions to expect.

As a luddite I use the map and compass as primary and the GPS mapping on my phone as back up and a cross check when not sure/lazy.

I do that. Always have a map, usually an electronic plan B. Maps are so much better for making up routes on the hoof, much better idea of what is around in all directions.
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I have the full set of 1:50k OS maps, most well-used 😀

It can be out of date.

Less of an issue on the hill, contours don't tend to change much

Use A3 printouts of OS maps.

Phone with app and a Garmin as well.

You can see a lot more on a map, rather than a phone or 2 inch GPS screen.

Don't do anything crazy and don't go out if I have to pack more than a waterproof shell as a "precaution".

Ignore

iirc scottish mountain rescue recommend a paper map even if just as backup.

In areas I know well I'll take my phone and my GPS (Edge 800 with 1:50k OS installed) as an easy way to get a set of coordinates in an emergency. For new areas I'll also take a laminated printout of the OS map for the areas Ivan print out from Memory Map on my computer, if I lose it it's no big deal. I also have the full OS maps for loads of areas which I tend to draw on, had them for decades.

Mainly though as I've got older I tend to not venture out on the hills in poor weather, prefer to stick to local hills or trail centres for safety. I also tend to hike in groups and that always ends up in good weather as people always pull out if it rains!

GPS on road bike and MTB, paper map when walking. I agree that when on a bike it's nice not not have to faff with a map at every junction, but when it comes to walking, navigation is part of the game.

Less of an issue on the hill, contours don’t tend to change much

We were walking a coast path and they'd breached the sea defences for natural flood control. Our path was there once but now a bit impassable.

I love a good map. Always carry one with me just in case, but most of the hikes and walks I do are pretty safe and the footpaths pretty obvious, but you never know. Also have the OS Map app on the phone but would hate to rely on it...faffin around with the screen, crap phone battery life and would be a nightmare in crappy weather.

Like alot of gear...better safe than sorry. Better to have it with you and not need it than to need it and not have it on you. Same with seatbelts, cycle helmets, etc. You wouldn't head into the hills without a warm jacket even if it was warm at the bottom, just in case the weather closes in up top etc.

I tend to use a 3D printer to print out a map in 1:1 scale. That way I can make an accurate comparison between where I am, and what I have brought with me.

Ooh, paper maps (waterproof versions available) are wonderful pieces of art to look at and very useful for exploring, even your local area! I do use the electronic versions from OS, excellent value but if I’m visiting an area nothing can beat spreading a map out in the motorhome and learning about the whole area, not just a small screen. Everyone to their own but I always carry one, hiking or mountain biking....

I tend to use a 3D printer to print out a map in 1:1 scale.

Have you ever read 'On Exactitude in Science' by Jorge Luis Borges?

There's a big temptation in the mountains to travel light and leave the map at home, especially in familiar terrain - but it's still not advisable as it may leave one unable to operate in an unexpected situation. Maybe you've taken the wrong ridgeline down in the mist and ended up in an unknown location, you whip the electric device out to find the cold has killed the battery perhaps or theres no gps signal in your steep sided gorge - maybe you encounter someone who needs aid or rescue, relaying a grid reference off a map should be just as easy as getting gps coordinates off a device...assuming the device is working, which they don't always...they can get wet, you can drop it and smash the screen. Unlikely, but then unlikely things happen when you start descending the incident spiral. Its always good to carry a map.

maybe you encounter someone who needs aid or rescue, relaying a grid reference off a map should be just as easy as getting gps coordinates off a device

Several times I've been out on the hills, met someone a bit lost, and shown them on their map where they are by using my phone. Just because it's perceived as reliable doesn't mean it always works.

If there is a reliability issue with electronic maps, and IME experience there really isn't, then its easy to take a backup. On top of that there are usually other devices in the group.

Don't get me wrong, I love a paper map, I just prefer a digital one for actual use

Another luddite here, aways take an OS map. I'm worried, perhaps irrationally, that I'll forget how to navigate with map and compass if I don't practice regularly. I do have maps on my phone and occasionally use it to confirm my position in poor vis, but try not to rely on it.

To me it's a bit like driving somewhere unfamiliar. If I rely on the Satnav I sometimes drive with my mind in neutral and get to my destination without a clue of which roads I've used and which towns and villages I've passed. If I look at a paper road atlas I have a much better overview of the route, points of interest and alternative routes and am much more likely to remember the route for future reference.

Not a perfect analogy granted, but I just feel I relate more to the ground I'm walking on if I study a paper map.

maybe you encounter someone who needs aid or rescue, relaying a grid reference off a map should be just as easy as getting gps coordinates off a device

The three word thing is the preferred method now, prompted by most MR organisations - much less likely to make a mistake.

I learnt old school navigation with my sliva compass back in the 70s, and I love maps. They're absolutely essential for bogs. Including the en suite. But it's been quite a while since I'll have actually taken one outdoors. I would if I was somewhere remote in scotland I guess, but dales, lakes, ny moors tend to know pretty well the high up stuff. And a phone is just better for fiddly rambling stuff through fields. And my watch works as a compass for a small amount of belt/braces.

If I'm in a new area - of the pyrenees say - it's a real treat to buy the paper map and have a browse. And those french ones are nice and light for going into a pocket, unlike the clonking OS, works of art though they are.

The three word thing is the preferred method now, prompted by most MR organisations –

Has this changed? I haven't seen any MRTs expressing a preference for WTW. I've seen plenty saying they can and will use it but it's not a preference.

unless its changed scottish mountain rescue prefer an os grid reference, will take co ordinates and can use 3 words but prefer not.

Less of an issue on the hill, contours don’t tend to change much

It doesn't happen often, but I've been caught out before by a footpath that's changed drastically.

unless its changed scottish mountain rescue prefer an os grid reference, will take co ordinates and can use 3 words but prefer not.

The statements I've seen about it have been pretty carefully worded so as not to express a preference. Things along the lines of 'we'll act on any and all location info'. It would be hard to see MRT expressing a preference for a commercial system over tried and trusted open source systems. Also, by suggesting a preferred method they'd potentially be putting people off using other methods.

It doesn’t happen often, but I’ve been caught out before by a footpath that’s changed drastically.

Paths definitely change. The path to Macdui between Coire an Lochain and Lurchers is shown in the wrong place on the current 1:50,000. It's an older path line which is shown and will make no difference to anyone really. I only noticed because I was running a navigation course and we were checking off features, the map said it should be burn then path and it was path then burn.

unless its changed scottish mountain rescue prefer an os grid reference, will take co ordinates and can use 3 words but prefer not.

I've always kinda assumed that's "we'd quite like people to have a map, and to know how to use it, before heading out"

But you’re only likely to be doing that to establish/confirm your position, aren’t you? And if you’ve got a little electronic map in your hand that says “you are here” why would you need to?

The big issue with electronic maps is you're inevitably looking at only a couple of map squares and a little arrow. Which is fine until it breaks, (or the person holding it falls off a cliff). At which point you have no idea where you are, where the route, or any alternatives are.

Whereas a paper map forces you to know where you are and where you're going in a wider context.
And using it is inevitably a "social" task so more members of the group know where they are too.

Cycling is different, having to stop and read a map is frustrating. And your escape options are more limited to generally keeping going or turning back and then following a road home. Barring the kind of serious injury that precludes walking anyway you don't need to know whether it would be feasible to shortcut across the fields. I still carry a paper map with the route drawn on it as backup though.

A 2nd electronic device is a useless backup though. If your Garmin battery goes flat, then your phone is probably also getting flat too, unless you're going to carry a Garmin, a phone, and a spare phone, at which point you're getting on for a grand's worth of electronics to backup a £7.99 map.

If your Garmin battery goes flat, then your phone is probably also getting flat too

Can you not just turn it off in your bag?

A 2nd electronic device is a useless backup though. If your Garmin battery goes flat, then your phone is probably also getting flat too, unless you’re going to carry a Garmin, a phone, and a spare phone, at which point you’re getting on for a grand’s worth of electronics to backup a £7.99 map.

It's not unheard of for me to head out with 2 Garmins (bike + watch), a phone, and a map.

A 2nd electronic device is a useless backup though. If your Garmin battery goes flat, then your phone is probably also getting flat too, unless you’re going to carry a Garmin, a phone, and a spare phone, at which point you’re getting on for a grand’s worth of electronics to backup a £7.99 map.

Or a £5 powerbank. Mine is also a torch so a handy thing to carry anyway.

The big issue with electronic maps is you’re inevitably looking at only a couple of map squares and a little arrow.

Er, zoom out?

Which is fine until it breaks, (or the person holding it falls off a cliff).

Paper can blow away, usually following wrestling/chasing. Not phones. Paper doesn't make you safer from cliffs.

At which point you have no idea where you are, where the route, or any alternatives are.

What about paper prevents this?

A 2nd electronic device is a useless backup though.

I'm wearing my watch anyway. Charges once a week.

My thoughts on the second device for backup. Its fully charged, turned off and in the bag inside a shock resistant cover.

Garmin Oregon with OS mapping - and a spare set of batteries.

Phone (protected/warm) with route on too.

My level of redundancy does, however, depend on how familiar I am with the area in question. If I'm at all uncertain then I'll have printed off the relevant section of OS Landranger from either the OS website or from Garmin Basecamp.

I’ve always kinda assumed that’s “we’d quite like people to have a map, and to know how to use it, before heading out”

This. I think most MRT would prefer folk to be able to get themselves out of danger. Personally I'm agnostic about what bit of tech one uses. The important bit which I think everyone here has probably identified, but hasn't realised is: knowing the basics of how to navigate and keep yourself safe in upland area is more important than the bit of tech (paper or electronic) that you use to do that.

Garmin Oregon with OS mapping – and a spare set of batteries

snap!

Another luddite here, always take an OS map. I’m worried, perhaps irrationally, that I’ll forget how to navigate with map and compass if I don’t practice regularly. I do have maps on my phone and occasionally use it to confirm my position in poor vis, but try not to rely on it.

To me it’s a bit like driving somewhere unfamiliar. If I rely on the Satnav I sometimes drive with my mind in neutral and get to my destination without a clue of which roads I’ve used and which towns and villages I’ve passed. If I look at a paper road atlas I have a much better overview of the route, points of interest and alternative routes and am much more likely to remember the route for future reference.

Not a perfect analogy granted, but I just feel I relate more to the ground I’m walking on if I study a paper map.

I think this gets to the core of the argument. People have their preferred way of doing things and tie their enjoyment/enthusiasm to that method, thinking that the method enables that enjoyment.

You forget your satnav'ed car journey not because of the device, but because you had no say in the route - nothing registers as familiar on your way through. Same as if you had an overbearing spouse who'd planned the route on their paper map without your input, barking directions at you from the passenger seat.

If you'd planned your route from Redditch to Ambleside on Basecamp, with attention paid to taking in interesting roads, techy climbs, good views, cafe stops, you'd be engaged the whole way, because you know where you're headed. You'd have a good chance of knowing if your satnav had had a moment and decided to re route you somewhere.

Which is how most people use their GPS devices out in the hills. You don't just plug in "10 mile walk, avoid motorways", put your boots on and wait to see if it tells you to turn left or right at the end of the road.

You've planned your route on the (electronic) maps at home, you know where you're going, what you're looking at, if you see something intriguing you'll find out what it is. Having a map on a device isn't going to suddenly kill your sense of wonder and curiosity about your environment and turn you into a trudging automaton, staring at its feet, wakened only by off-course alarms.

And you still have to be able to read a map. If things aren't as you expected because e.g. that plantation has been felled (years ago, by the looks of things) without the map being updated and the path is nowhere to be seen, you still need to figure out the best way down, figure out where the crags are, get over the brook with the waterfall, (is that triangle on the map that fenced off area down there?). Having a pointer on an electronic map isn't actually that useful in that sort of situation, you need to find the safe way down, matching what you can see on the map with what's in front of you. It's map reading and route planning whatever the format.

You forget your satnav’ed car journey not because of the device, but because you had no say in the route – nothing registers as familiar on your way through. Same as if you had an overbearing spouse who’d planned the route on their paper map without your input, barking directions at you from the passenger seat.

If you’d planned your route from Redditch to Ambleside on Basecamp, with attention paid to taking in interesting roads, techy climbs, good views, cafe stops, you’d be engaged the whole way, because you know where you’re headed. You’d have a good chance of knowing if your satnav had had a moment and decided to re route you somewhere.

On a related matter, this is one of the things that bothers me most about folk asking for GPS tracks of bike routes. Loading up a track and following it blindly doesn't allow for the same level or preparation and expectancy as studying the route beforehand, or actually making your own route between various "waypoints/POIs". Doing that lets you see if there's a ford, a possibly dodgy bit of track, a potential shortcut or a detour to somewhere cool.

On a related matter, this is one of the things that bothers me most about folk asking for GPS tracks of bike routes. Loading up a track and following it blindly doesn’t allow for the same level or preparation and expectancy as studying the route beforehand, or actually making your own route between various “waypoints/POIs”. Doing that lets you see if there’s a ford, a possibly dodgy bit of track, a potential shortcut or a detour to somewhere cool.

Exactly what I was thinking as I was typing: "You don’t just plug in “10 mile walk, avoid motorways”, put your boots on and wait to see if it tells you to turn left or right at the end of the road." - Well, some people do!

Well, some people do!

Twice I have been out with folk with GPS who have blindly followed it the wrong way. I had looked at maps before hand and knew they wanted to go the wrong way ( but didn't have the map out) but great god GPS must be right. sure enough after 100m the GPS updates again and corrects the route. NO biggie either time.

Can you not just turn it off in your bag?

You could but if it's very cold it may not start up when you need it. Electronics are not usually a problem at low level but up high in cold and wet conditions they are less than 100% reliable.

Er, zoom out?

At 1:50k one can determine ground features in poor conditions if you zoom out beyond this you lose that ability.

I know my Garmin Oregon worked without fault for 5 days in the arctic at -20C and below. A set of Energizer batteries lasts days. The paper map I had was mushed in the bottom of a bag. Getting a map out to check can be a faff whereas whipping a GPS/phone out your pocket whilst on the move takes seconds. The OS app on my phone can scale hugely and I just press an icon to find my position - the GPS in my phone works without cellular coverage.

At 1:50k one can determine ground features in poor conditions if you zoom out beyond this you lose that ability

I'm looking at 6.5 x 9.5 km on my phone now. To see further I might have to scroll but hey... When in a navigation, as opposed to route planning, situation do you need to zoom out further? And actually these days I do route plan on the phone too, though helps if you've already a feel for the territory, for which I do prefer my map on paper (the same os map, obv).

My Oregon has both Ordnance Survey and a couple of OSM maps loaded. I'll switch between them occasionally as the latter often has more up-to-date and complete mapping, especially as regards paths and tracks.

The paper map I had was mushed in the bottom of a bag.

To be honest that's more about you than the map,

Paper map and compass out on the hill.

Only really preferable if there are other people there to see you doing it.

Had a similar experience out in the middle of the Irish sea, becalmed on a boat which was owned and sailed by RN commander. (100+ yr old square rigged ketch cutter)
We're in the middle of a fishing fleet and Tony(the owner) gets out a sextant. I ask why as A-its the Irish sea, and B- we have sat nav. Tony gestures towards the big million ££ trawlers saying they all have a great deal of electronic gear, showing their positions here,there and everywhere, so he was doing it in a show off sort of way 😆

Ignoring the ad hominem attacks by those that have nothing to say...

Do recidivists who insist that electronic aids are fallible refuse to get on aircraft unless the pilot has pinned a paper copy with calculations of his flight plan on the plane door?

Ignoring the ad hominem attacks by those that have nothing to say…

recidivists

🤔

Seems like a good point to give this another airing:

Do recidivists who insist that electronic aids are fallible

That's not opinion but practical experience over many years by many different groups of users.

Recidivists? ad hominem? Oh the ironing! 😉

Not hiking but paddling. In open canoe I carry laminated A4, in sea kayak printed on waterproof paper so the I can fold it. Usually I'm more interested in the next bit than where I am, and a quick glance without having to scroll a screen is enough. My GPS is running and accessible but not in sight, as backup and track record.

Always take a map when out and about in our local mountains and always have a route planned, plus options if I want to cut things short. Also take a phone and GPS but don’t solely rely on them.

Our local mountain rescue pull lost people out every week, they invariably have a phone on them to ring for help but still don’t know where the hell they are. Even if you do it’s easy to take a straight line off a cliff in poor visibility if your device thinks it’s the quickest route back to your car.