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A burst water main in South Croyden meant that the whole entire track south of East Croydon was shut down yesterday. Bear in mind that that is the stretch of track from London to Gatwick!
Journeys were being transferred to buses at East Croydon. I walked for 7 minutes and still hand't reached the back of the queue. Must have been several thousand people all trying to get onto coaches that carried maybe 50!
I ended up in a taxi but the M23 was nose to tail all the way to the airport. Took three hours to do 25 miles! Lord knows how many missed planes there were because the airport roads were rammed.
It was the mud slide what done it :
[img] http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/resources/images/1729181/?type=display [/img]
[i]I ended up in a taxi but the M23 was nose to tail all the way to the airport. Took three hours to do 25 miles[/i]
how much does a 3 hour taxi ride cost 😯
still not lookign good this morning from what I've read.
I work by east croydon and it looked like absolute mayhem as I walked past on my lunch break, I thought it was a bomb or something at first.
I was on an early flight today, 7:20am. No probs on the roads that early, expect it will be carnage by now.
Taxi cost me £80 from East Croyden to Horhsam.
It ended up being all quite surreal but uplifting. My wife and I playing host to a random Norweigan single mum who missed her plane back to Oslo.
She was struggling with luggage and two children at East Croyden and at first I ended up just helping her with her bags out of the station. Then when we saw the queue I agreed to share a taxi with her to the airport.
Well needless to say that she wasn't even close to making her plane. It left at 4pm and by that time we weren't even at the slip road for the airport. She was beside herself (no money, no where to stay, booked with Ryan Air so her loss and no compensation etc).
It was all a nightmare, so I talked her into coming back and staying with us (yes, yes I know, but it's not like it wasn't a safe family home!)
So at 5pm my wife and two year old son were having dinner with her and her 13 year old and two year old in the garden.
Our son and hers ended up playing in the paddling pool in the sun, we ate pasta and drank wine. Then we helped her rebook the flights for today and they all stayed over.
Really quite surreal but in a fabulous heart warming way. The fact that she was Norweigan was particualrly meaningful. It shows that good things can happen as well as bad (i.e the incident in Norway last week).
The fact that she was Norweigan was particualrly meaningful.
not to mention ALL norwegians are hot.
Nice one, GT. 🙂
Blame thames water who own the water and the pipe concerned,and expect higher bils when they fix it.
A united uttilies 48 inch main burst outside liverpool a few days a go, and it took them ages to turn of the water, nobody had a big enough can of wd 40 to free the seized stop tap.
As for the delays thats privatised bus, train, and water companies.
did it burst because of poor maintenance, or some other contractor being a numpty?
"Stop Drilling!"
"What? Keep Drilling? Righto!"
[img] 
[/img]
Saw this pic on the BBC, seems if they had this many guys they could have cleared it in an hour or so. None of then have a shovel or barrow though.
Thats the kind of standing-around manpower only a union can muster 😉
The guy on the right hand side is stranding under a green signal.
Just hope they switched the power off, and told the drivers witrh diesel trains the line is blocked.
not to mention ALL norwegians are hot.
I was vaguely worried that my wife would take one look at her and immediately instruct me to take her back to the airport and abandon her! 😀
But in all honesty, it was the fact that she was struggling with a two year old, which is how old my son is so there was a lot of empathy going on.
It was one of those very rewarding but quite surreal, random acts of kindness.
It was one of those very rewarding but quite surreal, random acts of kindness.
Maximum respect to you sir. I'm sure the lady concerned will remember your kindness for the rest of your life (and in doing so, and perhaps repeating the story, will hopefully spurn others do undertake their own acts of random kindness).
Years ago when I was a toddler we were on a family break somewhere and had stopped at a pub for meal. When the time came to to pay and leave my father couldn't find his wallet (later it transpired he'd lost it). Overhearing the panicked embarrassed tones coming from our table a fellow diner offered to pay our bill, even after my father explained that as he had lost his wallet he couldn't provide the gentleman with proof of ID. As soon as we got home my father wrote out a cheque and a letter of deep thanks to the kind Samaritan.
Always nice, and really rather humbling, to witness unconditional kindness.
The sight of our respsective sons, charging around the garden like banshees, and hurling themselves into the paddling pool was absolutely the best reward I could have asked for.
The lack of any common language is insignificant in the face of the common language of FUN!
Yeah, good on yer Geetee. That's a proper nice thing to do.
Shows a lot of initial trust on her part, you must look like a trustworthy guy 🙂
She's lucky it wasn't TSY or someone, she'd be waking up in a basement somewhere this morning!
As for the delays thats privatised bus, train, and water companies.
Actually the company responsible for the railway tracks belongs to the government - the privateers proved to be completely incapable of running the rail infrastructure.
The guy on the right hand side is stranding under a green signal.
I think we can safely assume that the line was closed and no trains were passing. That after all, is what this thread is all about.
Thats the kind of standing-around manpower only a union can muster
If you look at the left hand side of the photo you'll see two blokes sitting down - the only ones with any common-sense imo.
And whilst a shovel and a wheelbarrow might have been useful, where exactly do you think they could have pushed the wheelbarrow to ? Maybe they could have dumped all that muck on East Croydon's platforms ?
Or how about pushing it back onto the embankment ?
[img] 
[/img]
*Office wallahs don't stop to think of the logistics shocker*
"bumbling pick axe pikies unable to clear a bit of dirt up shocker"
"train companies unable to run train service shocker"
"uk comes to a halt shocker"
face it...
"it's not our fault it's thiers shocker"
"typical shocker"
I agree. No-one should formulate a plan, everyone should pile in with shovels ASAP.
Green signal is more than likely an automatic signal, controlled by the passage of trains, they would use a signal in rear of the problem to stop trains, controlled from the signalbox!
"bumbling pick axe pikies unable to clear a bit of dirt up shocker"
Ah yes of course, "pickaxes" is what was needed to clear that mess. I wonder if anyone thought of getting any ?
And I wonder how many office wallahs have any idea what it might be like to push a wheelbarrow full of water a considerable distance over track ballast ?
I can imagine exactly what happened, a manager in a state of panic sent a few dozen track workers to "deal" with the problem. On arriving they look at the situation and say "what the **** do they expect us to do?"
And of course everyone is assuming that the burst water main was repaired the moment the mud slide occurred...... 'cause that's how Thames Water operates, isn't it ?
And whilst a shovel and a wheelbarrow might have been useful, where exactly do you think they could have pushed the wheelbarrow to ? Maybe they could have dumped all that muck on East Croydon's platforms ?
Errr how about, lets clear a couple of the tracks by barrowing this stuff over the left of the picture so we can at least get some trains moving.
Oh hang on - thinking! That'll be someone elses job. 👿
Errr how about, lets clear a couple of the tracks by barrowing this stuff over the left of the picture so we can at least get some trains moving.
Yes of course - lets create a huge pile of totally unpredictable mud slurry, which has the potential to collapse and slide back on the track again, with also possible further collapses from the embankment, thereby risking train derailments, accidents, and death.
I wonder why no one thought of that ?
Yes of course - lets create a huge pile of totally unpredictable mud slurry, which has the potential to collapse and slide back on the track again, with also possible further collapses from the embankment, thereby risking train derailments, accidents, and death.I wonder why no one thought of that ?
*sighs*
Yes of course - lets create a huge pile of totally unpredictable mud slurry, which has the potential to collapse and slide back on the track again, with also possible further collapses from the embankment, thereby risking train derailments, accidents, and death.
it's only Croydon FFS, i think we'll take the risk 😀
Why the sighing geoffj..........is all that "thinking" proving to be hard work for you ?
Errr how about, lets clear a couple of the tracks by barrowing this stuff over the left of the picture so we can at least get some trains moving.Yes of course - lets create a huge pile of totally unpredictable mud slurry, which has the potential to collapse and slide back on the track again, with also possible further collapses from the embankment, thereby risking train derailments, accidents, and death.
I wonder why no one thought of that ?
To be fair, thats pretty much exactly what they did. And it worked out very well, I got home about half an hour late via the 2 lines that they quickly got working, while they take their time to properly clear the other 3 (more deeply buried) lines.
Personally I've been incredibly impressed with the handling of this round of train delays.
Low tempereatures and snow in winter apparently take the train people completely by suprise, but flooding and mudslides on a dry summer's day get dealt with extremely efficiently.
To be fair, thats pretty much exactly what they did.
😆
That main has gone before, about 13-14 years ago, took my boss reading Thames Water the Riot Act and saying that should the line be shut that we would be naming and shaming on TV before they bothered to turn up.
The bank is still very unstable and removing debris from the bottom is very likly to cause further slippage. Digging out the face of the slip whilst it's still draining could be very hazardous to your health, hence the pictures of people standing round not doing a lot.
thats pretty much exactly what they did
Erm, I don't think they quite followed geoffj suggestion of [i]"barrowing this stuff over the left of the picture"[/i], otherwise they wouldn't have had all five tracks cleared by today. They worked through the night clearing 2,400 tons of debris. It took two hours to shut off the water main. By 6pm they had cleared two tracks. Of course I'm sure they could have done a quicker and better job if only they had asked the punters on STW.
Erm, I don't think they quite followed geoffj suggestion of "barrowing this stuff over the left of the picture", otherwise they wouldn't have had all five tracks cleared by today. They worked through the night clearing 2,400 tons of debris. It took two hours to shut off the water main. By 6pm they had cleared two tracks. Of course I'm sure they could have done a quicker and better job if only they had asked the punters on STW.
Ernie, look closely at the picture of orange people standing around. You can see the heaps of dirt that have been moved over from the 2 lines on the right side.
I'll admit that I dont know whether they used barrows or pick-axes to move the earth, but I think it is fair to say that the heaps are not in any danger of causing
train derailments, accidents, and death
Once the water main had been shut off, the mud must have stabilised extremely quickly, with water draining through the pourous rail ballast and the hot sun drying it too.
And FYI, they hadn't cleared all 5 tracks by today (at least not when I went past this morning). There is a JCB with a mahoosive arm lifting the dirt to the top of the enbankment.
There's a problem? Hadn't noticed myself, can't be anywhere important to me.
Given just how many people were at East Croyden trying to get onto coaches, I think the authorities were doing a really incredible job. Yes, it was going to take a very long time to get on, but that was never going to be any other way. It was however very well organised and everyone knew what was going on and the direction and order was really good.
"not my job shocker"
"who sent us down here shocker"
"typical office whaller doesn't know anything shocker"
"is tea time yet Bert shocker"
"service industry phah shocker"
"wheres me Pension money gone shocker"
"anyone put t' kettle opn yet shocker"
"job for life shocker"
"lets blame someone else shall we shocker"
"anyone know where Bert is with that tea nd the shovels shocker"
"you staying in the caravan tonight Tony? shocker"
"lend me page three of your Sun shocker"
"ahh fek the passengers, notour fault shocker"
"wheres my tea shocker"
"we've got too many managers in this gang and only Tony fiddling with the only shovel shocker"
"you got the keys to the van shocker"
"we need H&S down here, I'm not touching that shocker"
We could go on, and on, and on..
"pick anyone of those statements that isn't true, shocker"
Lets see if anyone can spot the difference.
Orange people arrive on scene:
[img] http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/resources/images/1728911/?type=display [/img]
Orange people, a while later, having done what they can as they wait for heavier machinery:[img] [/img]
HINT: it involves the passability of the 4th line from the left.
I say good job.
It's Croydon FFS, no 'e' in sight.
"Network South East Trains" have never existed either - Network South East was a subdivision of British Rail, and as such hasn't existed for 15 years. The South Central franchise is operated by Southern, although this also affected First Capital Connect services. [/ rail industry pedant]
I'm just glad I was in our Horsham office rather than Croydon as I usually am on a Monday!
Ernie, look closely at the picture of orange people standing around. You can see the heaps of dirt that have been moved over from the 2 lines on the right side.
I think you'll find that the criticism levelled at those track workers is that they are simply standing around doing nothing. I have no idea concerning the fine detail of the operation as I wasn't there. I am confident however that they dealt with the situation as best as could be expected. Comments such as [i]"Oh hang on - thinking! That'll be someone elses job"[/i] by STW users are typical, and is undoubtedly judgemental nonsense by people who are plainly ignorant. Although I would be happy to hear why they feel qualified to make those comments.
BTW I really like this picture :
[img] http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/resources/images/1728911/?type=display [/img]
See that wooded hill in the background ? That's Croham Hurst Wood, site of a round barrow burial ground, and it's at the top of my road - a few hundred yards away. Plenty of single track there, and all about 5 mins bike ride from East Croydon station. It's not a very large area though, but there's loads more nearby. Few people who don't know Croydon realise that.
Ernie - We're British. Moaning about the speed at which builder types work and the length of their tea breaks is what we do best. Though I agree that, in this case, the comments seem unfounded.
Just wanted to point out that you were wrong to dismiss geoffj's suggestion as being quite as stupid as you made it out to be.
See that wooded hill in the background ? That's Croham Hurst Wood, site of a round barrow burial ground, and it's at the top of my road - a few hundred yards away. Plenty of single track there, and all about 5 mins bike ride from East Croydon station. It's not a very large area though, but there's loads more nearby. Few people who don't know Croydon realise that.
Shhhh!
you were wrong to dismiss geoffj's suggestion as being quite as stupid as you made it out to be.
If I was dismissing anything as stupid, then it was this comment by geoffj : [i]"Oh hang on - thinking! That'll be someone elses job"[/i]. I'm sure the track workers tackled the problem in the most effective way. The suggestion that they didn't bother "thinking" is both insulting and baseless imo.
BTW your two pics are hugely unconvincing - in the second one there appears to be considerable more debris. That's hardly surprising though as it took two hours to shut off the water main (which was over 4m underground) But that's by the by - whichever way they tackled the job I'm sure it was the most appropriate.
Thomas and the Men In Orange.
Thomas was sitting in the sidings with all his friends yesterday, “oh dear what are we going to do”? he cried. “All the friendly passengers who pay their fares and stand to attention at the platforms waiting for us to take them home will all have gone in cars and on bikes by now” he sobbed. “Don’t worry” said Henry the Green Engine, “it’ll be fine, no one really cares if we p*ss them off, they’ll be back tomorrow cos’ they’ve got no other way of getting to work” But Thomas couldn’t sit there, he had to get there and get there fast. So he pootled off to Croydon.. Toot tooot, he blared, toot toooooot.. he huffed and puffed and made his way. He got there just in time to see a sight he’d seen all to often. He laughed and laughed at the Men In Orange standing around doing sod all whilst his passengers became ever more angry and displeased “oh, this is fekin typical” he thought. He recognised some of the Men In Orange Bert was doing is normal duty. putting the kettle on. Sammy was reading the Sun and Marty was still chomping on his Bacon sandwich from the morning. Tom the 15th Forman in line was resting his arm on the sparkling yellow pole he carried around with him, Nigel the 12th Forman in line was standing there too chatting about last nights TV.. Thomas noticed lots of cigarettes being lit up and a copy of the Daily Star wafted gently past his funnel. “Oh, please do something you lot” he tooted. But all the Men In Orange were bothered about was overtime, they were not going anywhere fast… Then Gerald the 18th inline Forman walked over to Thomas and whispered in his fire bucket “Oi, you cross this line fella and I’ll make sure you never cross any points again sonny, got that eh.. I’m a union man me and we know who you are” Thomas was so upset, he knew thas was it, he gently reversed back up the track sobbing, knowing full well the threat made would come real.. and sighed to himself “never come between the Men In Orange and Ovetime”
Oh sod it, I'll save the hypertension.
I made the suggestion "that a practical solution was beyond the capabilities of the folk on the scene" ?
Well I expect the "practical solution" to this :
[img] 
[/img]
To come from management, not the guys sent to clear the mess and who worked through the night to shift 2,400 tons of debris. Or do you think management has no role to play and should be scrapped ?
Having said that, I am only too aware that solutions to problems do indeed often come from 'the guys on the ground', and that management proves itself often to be utterly incompetent.
(in response to geoffj's edited post)
Why is everyone still arguing about this?
Why is everyone still arguing about this?
You need it explained ? OK. Well this landslide/flooding occurred on a main train line. Luckily all safety procedures appear to have worked and no train was derailed nor was there any injuries/loss of life. Bus replacement services were provided, although because of the sheer volume of traffic on that line it understandably struggled. Gangs of track workers worked through the night to shift 2,4000 tons of debris. By the next day the line was more or less back in full operation.
That was the good news. Unfortunately, and totally predictably, a few wallies are always quick to whinge about most things, and this was no exception. Apart from the general all-embracing whinge, the track workers were singled out by a couple of individuals for special criticism. And of course just for good measure, so were the trade unions, but wait, haha it was just a "joke".
Equally unsurprisingly, and also totally predictable, I come along and defend the track workers against absurd and unfounded allegations. An "argument" of a sort ensued. HTH
Well it was a hard jorney home but given that it's all up and running again today I think whoever was responsible should get a medal.
It was pretty messy down there.
Now if someone could photoshop The Badger and his track pump into the above picture...
Well it seems a very good job has been done by a few for so many, and quite a few on here have ridiculled their actions, thats naughty.
But thankfully as said before nobody was killed and there wasnt a serious derailment.