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I am looking for an older VW Caravelle, and keep getting adds for £50k+ and even up to £100k camper vans thrust on me, does anyone really spend that sort of money on one?
Have you seen how much some folk spend on bicycles?
Rich people. Really rich people!
A chap at my work turned up just after Christmas in a brand new California Ocean 4x4…he clearly gets paid a LOT more than I do.
Seems pretty good value, you can pay £250k for a Range Rover these days.
I suggest you don't look at the Hymer website. A 4x4 Hymer Venture S from £196,000
What's a vw calli now 80,k fully loaded from new?
There's dozens of them being daily driven around Sheffield. They're only outnumbered by Range Rover Sports.
does anyone really spend that sort of money on one?
I can say, having worked briefly for a very well known posh van company that yes, yes they do. Average sale price when I was there a few years ago was 46k + VAT. I think the most expensive one I worked on was 79k and counting.
I can say, having worked briefly for a very well known posh van company
Begins with L?
£73k is the least you can spend on a California Ocean now. Go for the higher power engine and a few options and easy to hit £80k.
The only £100k+ conversions I've seen are full of pricey fripperies like auto-leveling air suspension.
I was going to suggest probably the same income demographic that drives Range Rovers, which are also £100k, but ride bikes rather than go clay shooting.
DINKY's on £70-80k each and you can afford most things you want. Or drug dealing
I just wish they’d check the reverse gear option before they come up here in their new T6 and drive our single-track, island roads or use the non-existent passing place finder 🤣
TBH I do watch a lot of van life stuff and tbh always giggle when they are sticking £3-15k of battery power gear in.
"thrust on me”.
That made me laugh.
Who buys £100k VW Campers?
Van****.
Begins with L?
LDV?
Finance? Guess they don't depreciate very quickly so the monthly on a PCP 'might' not be as horrific as you'd imagine.
LDV?
No, mostly VW's. Peaty's favourite van mod dealer
Begins with L?
I can't possibly say. It was also a white supremacist terror cell and I wouldn't associate with any of them ever again.
E-bikers?
Mind the 50k is poverty spec !
I did a ride with a mate that went by the Mercedes museum and dealer at the Brooklands site. I had a quick look at the forecourt, and I thought 'blimey thase are some nice looking cars for £15k' but then I realised I'd missed a zero.
Seems pretty good value, you can pay £250k for a Range Rover these days.
Jesus, it was big news when they passed £100k, 20 years ago
Boomers
I get 1 or 2 reversing up at my shop every week to buy the requisite kayak/SUP and all the gear. These are 60 year old retired civil servants, teachers, police, council directors, NHS managers, Doctors, Accountants, you name it - all lucky enough to have been born around 1960 and gone to a grammar school.....bought a house and kept a job (pretty much any job other than a miner or nurse) for 40 years.
Loaded.
Finance? Guess they don’t depreciate very quickly so the monthly on a PCP ‘might’ not be as horrific as you’d imagine.
Oh there's an avalanche of ****ed credit rolling about on UK roads at the minute, just wait... It's going to be like 2008 but with wheels.
The only people left with a merc on the drive will be those operating cash in hand, you know drug dealers and plumbers...
Mines only a beach not an ocean so wasn’t £100k fortunately.
I’ve had 3 over the last 14 years and so far lost about £2k in total so the residuals are incredible and it’s a great family vehicle. First one was bought for £40k new so prices have shot up to stupid levels now.
I’m early 40’s now, had a decent job for a while in my 20’s before kids so bought one and never looked back. They’re great for everything.
I do hate it when the 65 year old retirees in their new oceans try to wave at me like we are friends though.
Don't worry squealer , I'm a 67 year old retiree and I promise to ignore you as I drive past in my Focus Estate 🙄
No toilet in most of them but if parked nearby we can tell the health of their bladders by how many times those awful sliding doors wake us up! And… those noisy diesel heaters..
Peaty’s favourite van mod dealer
Leightons
I can’t possibly say. It was also a white supremacist terror cell and I wouldn’t associate with any of them ever again
E-bikers?
Made me laugh, whether @eddiebaby was answering his preceding post or not
Not me, I drive a tatty T4 but from what I understand, talking to those that do, while the entrance fee is high to the club, if you sell it after a couple of years you won't have lost much of your money.
As for all the blingy T6's, if you own a limited company and buy the one with biggest payload, an awful lot of the cost is offset against your tax bill. I've a couple of mates running £40,000 vans this way. Again, once you've sold it to yourself for threpence happeny and then sold it on, you won't have lost much money.
Whereas, I imagine those Range Rovers lose lots and lots of value.
You get 25% of your pension pot, tax free at 65. A 400k pot isn’t unheard of, and taking a quarter of that, travelling round the world for 2 years and having a £70k asset at the end of it doesn’t seem like the worst idea in the world
Exactly what I may be doing although travelling around UK rather than the world as I am not that adventurous.
I have one they are fantastic. Never camp in it though. My wife prefers a Premier Inn.
Based on the current value of my pension pot I might make it once round the gas works in a Yugo...
I've not done the maths, but expect £100k would pay for a lot of hotel rooms/B&Bs over the years.
I’ve not done the maths, but expect £100k would pay for a lot of hotel rooms/B&Bs over the years.
Yes but the £100k still has a value after 5 years... plus, we all need vehicles (mostly anyway), so if you use it for 5 years and drop say £10k on it, well it's not a bad loss considering the benefits you've had as both a vehicle and a hotel from it.
I’ve not done the maths, but expect £100k would pay for a lot of hotel rooms/B&Bs over the years.
Which was exactly where the OH and I came to when we were considering getting a motorhome (one with a toilet & shower though).
Fair point, but assume £50k depreciation over 5 years is nearly £200/week, which would pay for a decent weekend away 52 weeks of the year (including breakfast and a bathroom). Agree that you would need a car instead of a van, but a £10k car would only depreciate £1k/year.
Hiya,
VW Campers have always been expensive. In 2015 when we were looking for a campervan we did briefly look at one. Brother in law put us off one with his one, being somewhat unreliable. For the last 7 years we have a Renault Trafic MK3 converted by Sussex campervans. Hell of a lot cheaper and more reliable from our own experiences. OK last year was a tad bit expensive where I had to get new springs and new disks etc at the rear of the van, but only after 55K miles and the roads in North Somerset are crappy and pothole ridden.
BR
JeZ
I wonder the same thing about who's buying the all £500k-750k houses, always surprised how many of them there are around.
You get 25% of your pension pot, tax free at 65. A 400k pot isn’t unheard of, and taking a quarter of that, travelling round the world for 2 years and having a £70k asset at the end of it doesn’t seem like the worst idea in the world
That plus the people pulling in really big money does make sense though.
Fair point, but assume £50k depreciation over 5 years is nearly £200/week, which would pay for a decent weekend away 52 weeks of the year (including breakfast and a bathroom). Agree that you would need a car instead of a van, but a £10k car would only depreciate £1k/year.
Apples/Oranges.
People probably aren't choosing between a £10k car and a £50k van, they're choosing between a £50k Audi and a £50k Van.
Fair point, but assume £50k depreciation over 5 years is nearly £200/week, which would pay for a decent weekend away 52 weeks of the year (including breakfast and a bathroom)
Depends when and where, over the last few years I've ended up paying probably an average of £120/night for work hotels, and that's including a 2 month stint in the Holiday Inn on J15 of the M6 (i.e. if you took your OH for a weekend away at that end of the market then expect a divorce 🤣).
It is static caravans, sorry I mean lodge/cabin, that really blow my mind. Some of them near me are more expensive than a flat, presumably depreciate horrifically as there are maximum ages on the sites, also have an annual fee for the plot and you can’t even use them all year. Just can’t work it out.
I wonder the same thing about who’s buying the all £500k-750k houses, always surprised how many of them there are around.
The difference with the houses is if it's not your first house it's been quite easy to trade "up". The car finance is just massive monthly costs.
Nope it is yachts that blow my mind! Go to any marina there are thousands of them. Who owns them, how much are they earning to afford a floaty home bobbing around.
(VW T6 camper van owner :-))
Depends when and where, over the last few years I’ve ended up paying probably an average of £120/night for work hotels, and that’s including a 2 month stint in the Holiday Inn on J15 of the M6
Yep, this is part of it. Also the ability to go away for the weekend at a moment's notice just booking a campsite rather than trying to find an Airbnb or hotel at a days notice. Semi/fully retired have a lot of time to fill.
And with a VW camper they don't need the £40k Volvo that's currently sat on the drive, so it's only £60k of the pension lump sum to upgrade.
The cost of Airbnb hotels Vs campsites is one argument that's convincing me to get a van - £180 for 2 nights in an Airbnb Vs £40 at a campsite - do that twice a month and that's the extra monthly cost of a van costing £15k more than my current car covered!
Its bonkers. We looked at one and then bought a proper coach built one with things like a loo and shower and a garage for the bikes all for half the price. Its no wider than the Ducato its based on but so much more spacious inside
Fair point, but assume £50k depreciation over 5 years is nearly £200/week, which would pay for a decent weekend away 52 weeks of the year (including breakfast and a bathroom). Agree that you would need a car instead of a van, but a £10k car would only depreciate £1k/year.
They're like Islabikes, they get more expensive every year so secondhand values can be sky high but seem good value compared to new.
In 2016 a T6 Ocean was under £50k. Cheapest you can get on AT now is £42k, it's a 2017 ex-hire with a patched roof and 73k miles on it. That's less depreciation than a lot of cheaper cars.
I wonder the same thing about who’s buying the all £500k-750k houses, always surprised how many of them there are around.
Most of them were worth less than £100k 20 years ago! So easy to acquire £700k equity, you just have to wait 20 years....
I wonder the same thing about who’s buying the all £500k-750k houses, always surprised how many of them there are around.
Paid £245k for ours in 2010, spent another £100k having a loft conversion/extension, now worth £650k..
I can't afford to spend £100k on a Camper van though...
You get 25% of your pension pot, tax free at 65. A 400k pot isn’t unheard of, and taking a quarter of that, travelling round the world for 2 years and having a £70k asset at the end of it doesn’t seem like the worst idea in the world
I know a few people who've done this.. take the 25% lump - buy a campervan which fits their budget - spend a couple of years trawling around Europe.. out of season motorhome pitches are cheap as chips.
Most of them were worth less than £100k 20 years ago! So easy to acquire £700k equity, you just have to wait 20 years….
Or work hard/make sacrifices (I'd say be lucky, but having been made redundant twice since buying said house 7 years ago and other things I'm not going to).
With the lowering of the pension lifetime allowance there are probably a few more people taking bigger lump sums than they might have (thus reducing their tax) so I guess the idea of using that to enjoy some sights for a few years and then get a reasonable amount back when selling it seems quite reasonable!
Or work hard/make sacrifices
Are you about to mention avocado toast?
Or work hard/make sacrifice
For a lot of people their houses "earn" more than they do...
Are you about to mention avocado toast?
That goes without saying...
They probably drink take away coffee as well. In my day we had a jar of Nescafe where the bottom third had set like concrete and we made it last years!
My MD has a VW California - don't think he's ever been camping in his life.
He also has a Porsche Panamera a Range Rover and a £2m house.
I think the California is so he fits in in Cornwall.
Or work hard/make sacrifices
Alternatively, buy a house in the SE circa 30 years ago, sell up today, buy in the north/Scotland and go nuts with the released equity.
Nope it is yachts that blow my mind! Go to any marina there are thousands of them. Who owns them, how much are they earning to afford a floaty home bobbing around
Boat owner here; not marina based though.
My boat, when looked at from a total annual running cost per year (Insurance, summer mooring, winter haul out and storage, diesel, upgrades, fixing stuff that breaks etc), divided by the number of nights spent aboard per season comes to between £50-60 a night.
We work full time so that's just weekends with a few weeks a year away. For those that are retired their costs will be substantially lower per day basis.
Further more we have the entire of the Hebrides as our playground and no midges to contend with.
Feels exceptional value to me.
no midges to contend with.
I would buy a 200k camper van if that was guaranteed 🙂
You get 25% of your pension pot, tax free at 65. A 400k pot isn’t unheard of, and taking a quarter of that, travelling round the world for 2 years and having a £70k asset at the end of it doesn’t seem like the worst idea in the world
Currently you can actually take it at 55 which opens up a whole range of possibilities like taking an extended career break at 55 for a couple of years while you are hopefully still fit and healthy. As long as you only take the tax free lump sum and leave the rest untouched you can still pay in the maximum £40k a year back into your pension if you go back to working.
VW Transporter 6.1 camper driver here.
Smidge under 60k by the time you add solar, extra leisure batteries, hook up electrics, cooker, fridge, taps, underslung LPG tanks, cupboards, pop top, reversing camera, removable tow bar, Rib bed and the big vanity Fuel alloys wrapped in BF Goodrich KO2 T/A tyres that make the fuel economy even worse.
Custom Conversion was done by Jack's Shack who were great.
Spent 4 weeks in it last year and plan to do even more this year.
I had my last van for 14 years (Japanese import 'Yota Hi-Ace Hi-top camper), plan to keep this one as long, which will take me to nearly 60, when I will probably want something bigger and comfier.
The low depreciation argument for campers has been skewed due to Covid staycations and demand outstripping supply, but with vehicle electrification and the decline of diesels I expect that bubble to burst in a couple of years.
I wonder how many over 55's that have bought them with pension cash lump sums have sold them not long after due to wanting more creature comforts in retirement than sleeping in a fancy panel van. I'm not at that age yet, but value sleeping in a proper bed with an en-suite bathroom and central heating.
Is people's ire reserved only for VW campers? Seems odd, since the Merc or Ford equivalent is around the same price...
The cost of ownership are very low through. We sold our old campervan last Autumn to fund the new one. We sold it for £4k more than we had paid for it 3 years earlier. One of the reasons we bought the new one is because the depreciation is so low on them that compared to leaving the money in the bank its not expensive to own for a few years. Sure you need to have the cash in the first place but as others have said thats not hard if your over a certain age through pension or property equity release
The cost of ownership are very low through. We sold our old campervan last Autumn to fund the new one. We sold it for £4k more than we had paid for it 3 years earlier.
That's COVID depreciation though, not normal. Under normal circumstances you'd be losing a bit over 3 years - not masses though - they do depreciate less than cars.
Yeah. How dare they be friendly. The very cheek of it.
Naah, it’s weird. Just because we have the same vehicle they wave. No other car people do that.
Naah, it’s weird. Just because we have the same vehicle they wave. No other car people do that.
My first car was a 71 Beetle. I regularly had friendly waves and smiles from young women driving Beetles. It made me feel loved. 😀
Is people’s ire reserved only for VW campers?
My ire is reserved for people who want the VW lifestyle but can only manage a smoky old Transit with bald tyres, home-cut foam mattresses and an Aeropress. 😀
No other car people do that.
Had the same when I owned a Landrover Discovery 2. Think it was more of a cry for help.😃
One of our neighbors has a Frankia I8400 QD Plati- £200k plus and bought brand new.
It's so big that it sticks out the drive and obscure the whole pavement.
I've seen it disappear once for one week in over 3 years- other than a few day trips, but assume that's for a service/mot.
House is worth £700k, so seems an odd purchase. That said, he also has an SL63 and a supercar hire membership.
Guess he's happy with the house and looking at ways so waste his money? Would rather leave it to the 2 kids he has.
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<div class="bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap"><span class="bbp-author-name">ta11pau1</span>
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">The cost of ownership are very low through. We sold our old campervan last Autumn to fund the new one. We sold it for £4k more than we had paid for it 3 years earlier.
That’s COVID depreciation though, not normal. Under normal circumstances you’d be losing a bit over 3 years – not masses though – they do depreciate less than cars.
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I agree although the one we have is still being advertised for more than we paid for ours last year. I do expect it to depreciate over our period of ownership but I doubt we will loose more than 10% of its value in 3 years
Are you about to mention avocado toast?
That joke pre-dates me buying 🤷♂️
TBH though, yes, I've only ever bought one new ish (6 years old) car for £5k and that was bought for work so was reimbursed @45p/mile several times over. Didn't do many big holidays. Rented cheaply. Bought big purchases 2nd hand. Saved everything.
That and the unintended consequences of getting bullied through school so ended up focused on being academic rather than popular, followed by collage, uni, a decent paying job etc that meant that I had the income to allow those to be sacrifices to be made. Then getting made redundant twice, starting a new career, building that one for a few years which involved a lot of belt tightening, which now means I have my old fulltime job back when the market recovered, and a moderately lucrative side-gig working holidays/weekends on my other job.
And ultimately a £350k mortgage is ~£1500/month, half that would be needed for a house half the price, and half that if you're a couple. So the 'sacrifice' really more like £300/month, or the cost of a Mondeo on finance (which I still don't have).
No drug dealing or booming required. Just a lot of hard graft, belt tightening, and working two fulltime jobs occasionally.
I’ve never been able to get my head around it
At the end of the day, you can dress it up all you like, but you’re still sleeping in a similar vehicle to one that a plasterer keeps his tools in and paying an absolutely ****ing whacking great premium for the ‘privilege’
The ultimate middle class affectation
Less of the middle class insults please 😂 I am working class and proud of it. Must admit though I can’t be bothered working nowadays I’m too busy polishing my van and shopping for blingy alloy wheels for it and nice bike stuff and kayaks.
Naah, it’s weird. Just because we have the same vehicle they wave. No other car people do that.
TBH evo drivers do it,smart drivers do it even Subaru drivers do it.
I think you’ve got to have a niche car thou once it’s gone mainline it’s not so wavy.
but with vehicle electrification and the decline of diesels I expect that bubble to burst in a couple of years.
surely this. Historical depreciation might have been low but it feels like there might be a cliff edge in the not too distant future.
TBH evo drivers do it,smart drivers do it even Subaru drivers do it.
I think you’ve got to have a niche car thou once it’s gone mainline it’s not so wavy.
Tru dat - when we first got our Leaf, 7 years ago they all used to wave but now hardly ever. In fact most cars I've owned have had a 'wavy' community: Herald, Spitfire, Landy 90, 2CV, Troopy (Aus)...even my Hyundai Terracan!
The ultimate middle class affectation
Not sure that’s my experience of VW Camper owners tbh, mostly see them outside ex council house properties.
Aren’t most of them to be found in Llandegla car park? 😂
Or work hard/make sacrifices
Nonsense. Everyone knows you only earn a high salary by blind luck. Working harder, making sacrifices or being more talented is never a factor.
Depreciation isn't the only cost though.
A larger vehicle gets what 20-25mpg, a small T6 maybe 35-40mpg…? A full tank is £120+ these days.
Tax £290?
Insurance £300-600
Mot £50
Service £200?
Repairs £2-300?
Plus campsite costs
And how many are run as only/primary vehicle?
I get it if you've the lifestyle and money to be away every weekend or every other weekend.
Yet so many are additional second vehicles, and so many seem to actually be used to camp on 'occasion', not regularly. In this context, with the additional costs, they are not great value at all.
Most seem to be mobile kettle & teabag carriers... 😉
That said, I would like one and the rising costs of crappy accommodation, let alone decent accommodation, I can see the maths works if you use it enough.