White lines

Sort of thing you should probably report to the H&SE

He’s a bit knackered anyway, bless him.

Theres an easy solve for that...

A good night’s kip?

So, my question is, is Charlie a common thing on work sites these days?

Not been on a proper site in years, but I can't imagine much has changed. Loads of folk were on it, ket and massive amounts of mdma  (and other research chemicals) while working on geotechnical sites I used to work on.

Folk do all sorts in all walks of life.

While a tree surgeon in my 20s I was routinely hung over, not big and not clever.

So, my question is, is Charlie a common thing on work sites these days?

I do a side gig supporting a CIC that supports veterans with substance misuse issues, the larger percentage of drug use in employment is in and around trades.

It causes us issues in terms of trying to relocate individuals away from old habits even temporarily, that drove us to develop a residential facility and support finding gainful employment for the period of admission.

So, my question is, is Charlie a common thing on work sites these days

For gods sake don’t let him go working with any scaffolders! They start straight after their Maccy D’s breakfast

When I was young and stupid I used to work on the chemical plants and we used to do 6-2 shifts straight from being out clubbing and just kept going with any stimulants we happened to have on us. If you wanted to score some more then you wouldn’t struggle, because loads of people were at it

That was a long time ago. I’d imagine it’s even worse/better* nowadays

* delete as applicable

In my experience the Tree guys are more likely to be stoned, although smoking isn’t great for your lungs and climbing ability.

Absolutely not something I recognise work at a major power station amongst the directly employed staff or regular contractors. Having said that, we don't test for drugs or alcohol, and I can only remember maybe 2 people turning up for work obviously pissed in 20 years I've been in the industry. Chemicals are probably a bit less obvious so maybe more common than I imagine.

Who’s driving the van?  How are they all getting home?

there’s a reason the guy is looking for ad hoc Labour at short notice.

My advice was to stay away from the guys using chainsaws after 3pm!

Just stay away from chainsaws entirely. They are lethal even when you are stone cold sober.

It’s been common place on construction sites for as long as I’ve been at work, I started work in the late 80’s. Although I’m not on sites anymore I would imagine it’s more blatant than ever!

Tree surgeons/groundies are renowned for it (if the comments on Arbtalk FB group are anything to go by).

I regularly pop into a local shop on my way in to work of a morning and often see a arb team in there at the same time (07:15) coked up yabbering away, walking around like they own the place. ****s

Right, best put me chainsaw kit on and go to work.

Was going to say scaffolders but @binners beat me to it. Notorious. I stayed away from them when we had our roof done, they were all a bunch of lunatics.

I always thought Billy was the main geezer in the trades.

I guess wages must have had a bump or two since then.

Part of the reason why you should never remonstrate after being close-passed by a roofer/scaffolder/tree surgeon vehicle!

Part of the reason why you should never remonstrate after being close-passed by a roofer/scaffolder/tree surgeon vehicle!

I was just thinking that on my pedal into work.

Back when I was doing this sort of work one of my colleagues used to do a bucket before work started. I never quite understood how he was capable of working all morning, but he seemed to manage.

He'd disappear for a while at lunch break - presumably to replenish in one way or another.

When I worked for a large contractor who sadly no longer exists our tree surgeons had to be let go for failing the "random" drugs test. It was weed if I remember rightly. Not sure how random the tests were, think it was the tree guys and most people under 25

When I worked for a large contractor who sadly no longer exists our tree surgeons had to be let go for failing the “random” drugs test. It was weed if I remember rightly. Not sure how random the tests were, think it was the tree guys and most people under 25

As I said up post, the tree surgeon (s) I’ve met would usually smoke weed, to be fair when they’re done for the day. Doesn’t help the drug test though.

Back when I used to do a lot of that sort of thing, a guy who was pals with my mate was a tree surgeon. I remember a couple of times we'd have been up all night partying and then come 6am just as we were sat in someone's front room contemplating the day ahead with the light coming in, he'd get up and announce he was off to go to work.

Can't help thinking that there may be some connection between the revelations on this thread and that tree surgery is a high risk occupation?

I live such a sheltered life.

Was watching some polis drama last night and we discussed the same topic 'how common is it's use?'

Quite scary

Stay out drinking all night, chemical uplift about 06 30 stroll into work for 12 hour shift building stages at festivals, argh to be young and bulletproof.

Now it's all decaf coffee, and bed by 10 pm. Getting old sucks.

Back in the 90’s/early 2000’s when all my mates worked on the fishing boats in the town and had 2 or 3 days to spend a 4 figure wage there was an ungodly amount of weed/pills/mdma/coke/heroin etc being thrown around at weekend’s and in the pub where I worked, quite a normal thing to see an ounce of coke tipped out on the table on a friday night and folk dived into it as they saw fit, everyone was quite open about it at weekends but if there’s one place you don’t want to be under the influence it’s out at sea in all weathers on a scallop/queenie boat with a max of 4 hours sleep per day so there was an unspoken rule that only weed was allowed/accepted the minute you set foot on the boat otherwise if you were caught doing something else you were kicked off on the next landing, no matter where that was in the country and no wage for that trip.

Had a mate we met through the Glasgow clubbing scene at the SubClub in the late 90’s, he was a junior doctor and would join in with the rest of us on a night out then retire relatively early in the morning to give himself an IV to recover for work the following day, still mates with him and he’s now a rather high up and well regarded consultant.

I live such a sheltered life.

Was watching some polis drama last night and we discussed the same topic ‘how common is it’s use?’

Go into any pub on a Friday night and observe all the people who seem to have very weak bladders due to the amount of trips to the bog they take every hour. Its just as much a part of a weekend as having a pint for a lot of people.

I don't know which MP it was that said that getting a load of Class A's dropped off was easier than ordering a pizza in most UK cities, but they were right. Its been like that for years.

I always find it quite ironic that these same MPs rail against drug use, but its pretty much the only supply chain where we have the unfettered capitalist free-market which they all also espouse

A lot of the trades are on it in our little village.

One rumour is that one of them is quite a major dealer, not just to his mates.

A lot of the street violence we saw recently will be heavily fueled by it. See also the increase in footy violence.

Now it’s all decaf coffee, and bed by 10 pm.

Getting old is great. No more FOMO.

If you want to see how endemic and normalised nosebag use is in UK Society then watch this documentary on Netflix. Pretty much everyone there is clearly coked off their tits

Shame it's not taxed really, at this stage.

Was it the Onion did a piece titled "War on drugs won by drugs" or similar?

If you want to see how endemic and normalised nosebag use is in UK Society then watch this documentary on Netflix

Or just go to a day at the races and pop to the loo. Massive queues for the stalls and no-one at the urinals.

Go into any pub on a Friday night and observe all the people who seem to have very weak bladders due to the amount of trips to the bog they take every hour.

Um. I got he the pub quite regularly  when drinkin beer. No marching powder has ever been up my nose.

anyone else notice that somafunk's first paragraph is one entire sentence!?!

anyone else notice that somafunk’s first paragraph is one entire sentence!?!

Probably off his tits 🙂

Just passed 2 guys with petrol strimmers clearing the side of the canal of weeds (well overdue) and firing all the spiky bits onto the path, didn't stop to say I might get a puncture as thought they would be off their heads on Garry's and Beak.

So, my question is, is Charlie a common thing on work sites these days?

Short answer, as said is above, is "yes, very". I'd say it's quite common wherever you are really. Most of my friends are old enough to have grown out of it, but for a lot of the younger folk I know it's just part of a night out.

It's a drug that has passed through class barriers. It started as being seen as quite a "posh" drug, mainly used by city types, journalists and politicians, but it's not transcended that and is pretty much everywhere. Trades particularly are rather partial.

I'd suggest that there would even be some usage by people in his future career as well, albeit not in the classroom.

Came for the chat about classic massive attack albums, is disappoint.

Coke and chainsaws, what a combo!

anyone else notice that somafunk’s first paragraph is one entire sentence!?

!Probably off his tits 🙂

It wasn't on my iPad, had paragraphs and everyfing in place. 😉

Not off my tits, would love the opportunity though as I really miss MDMA and shrooms but can't take them these days, all my daily drugs are prescription only -  3600mg gabapentin, 16mg tizanidine, and currently 1000mg ciprofloxacin and 200mg nitrofurantoin (antibiotics)

Um. I got he the pub quite regularly  when drinkin beer. No marching powder has ever been up my nose.

Same.

I must've led a sheltered life.  I've never even seen the stuff, aside from my very extended circle I don't know anyone who takes anything stronger than weed.  Or at least, admits to it I suppose.  None of my friends smoke anymore, even.

anyone else notice that somafunk’s first paragraph is one entire sentence!?!

Very easy to follow, so suspect he’s no too high.

I watched a recent documentary about the manufacture and supply of coke and it's easy to see why usage has become widespread.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but the key message is price. The cost of a decent pint has gone up dramatically over the past 25 years and while a bag has also risen in price, it's nowhere near as much as alcohol.

It's now very easily absorbed into the cost of a night out which makes it commonplace in many cities and often more so in small towns.

Never suffered FOMO Kramer I was always out and now I don't care.

I was at a party in Windsor in mid 90's that was very pill powered when one guy who lived there said must get changed go to work. He came out his room in a pilots uniform and said he was off to Italy. Exciting flight to be on.

I was raving a bit round Melbourne in the 00's all the pills supposedly brought over by Quantas flight attendants from London. Didn't see that on the adverts. There is a ludicrous amount of money being made due to silly and unworkable drug laws.

I can’t remember the exact numbers, but the key message is price. The cost of a decent pint has gone up dramatically over the past 25 years and while a bag has also risen in price, it’s nowhere near as much as alcohol.

As the afore-mentioned market forces of supply and demand have actually worked with drugs, the country is presently absolutely awash with gak. So whats happened is the price has been driven down by competition while the quality has gone up with a vengence. So its affordable to most and is pure uncut rocket fuel

What a time to be alive! Wish I was 20 again. We spent the whole of the 90's trying to get the entire agricultural output of Peru up our hooters 😀

The roofers I knew 20 years ago were all banging plenty of sniff. And the plumbers, chips and sparks.

What a time to be alive! Wish I was 20 again.

Yeah, me too.

Came here for some Grandmaster riffs - is disappoint

One of the many side effects is becoming impotent but you will probably still get stiffees on your arteries though. Better chance of maybe a stroke or heart attack

I've never even seen the stuff but might have had some on £20 notes

Have I really missed out in my life ? I don't think so

Just did my roof access recert. Some of the steeple jacks anc scaffolders were boasting about 16 hour shifts on the tools. A few cans of monster only takes you so far.

People also need to realise, aside from the fact nothing good will come of it, that it also ruins the economy of the south american continent.

Farmers have to grow it because it pays the bills...it's a much better return than banannas or coffee.

We all live on the same planet, and peole should take a LOT more personal responsibility.

Another sheltered life here, it's never even crossed my radar.  Not feeling any FOMO.

The amazing honesty being shown on STW about illegal drug use is staggering. No mention or apparent thought of the misery caused to the people, often very young who are used and abused in the supply chain, the extreme violence used by the dealers and the vast profits that then fuel other criminal enterprises.

I run the engineering aspects of a COMAH (nasty chemicals) site. We only use one scaffolding company as they are a stand out within the industry in that they can all pass piss tests and actually use harnesses/fall arrests. Company is a great guy , the lads he employs are all a credit to him. He isn't any more expensive than other coke'd up tube chuckers.

Crane drivers are also big coke users - a couple of years ago I had a big job with a contract lift on site with my regular crane hire company. Decent lads had a good chat with the crane operator between the lift.

Few years later another lift job with same company and chatting to the lads - previous crane operater killed himself over his out of control habit.

We all live on the same planet, and peole should take a LOT more personal responsibility.

It’s not like you can buy fairtrade chop though, is it? I’m sure most people would, given the option

There’s a huge worldwide market for gak but due to the decades long, mind-numbingly stupid policies of successive western governments and their ‘pointless, unwinnable war on drugs’ the only people who can supply it are murderous South American cartels

Thats not Baz the scaffolders fault

We need to have a proper grown up conversation about drugs supply.

It’s not like you can buy fairtrade chop though, is it? I’m sure most people would, given the option.

They won't though, because as discussed it is so common because it is so cheap.

And no one's conscience seems to be bothered by the misery it causes across the planet.

Slave labour in South America.

Funding terrorism in the Eastern Europe and the middle east.

Torture chambers in the Netherlands and extreme violence everywhere it touches.

12yo county-lines, drug mules in our cities, towns and villages.

Obviously, the immorality is the illegality.  Otherwise it would all be fair trade and paper rounds.

I work on a lot of different sites in London (average probably 3 a week) and most of the big named construction companies have drink & drug policies, random testing & red card systems across the board, so regular drug users won't last long. Smaller co's & it's pretty much a free for all anything goes so long as you get the work done.

And no one’s conscience seems to be bothered by the misery it causes across the planet.

Thats quite an assertion. You’re basing that on your extensive research with drug users, I presume?

You know that drugs aren’t the only things that are supplied through exploitation and corruption, right? Don’t ask too much about the supply of loads of things we take for granted in this country

That particular comment was aimed at the casual attitudes displayed on this thread towards everyday, fun time cocaine use.

You know that drugs aren’t the only things that are supplied through exploitation and corruption, right? Don’t ask too much about the supply of loads of things we take for granted in this country

Well that's ok then.

Just out of interest, what perfectly legal, entirely non essential, recreational commodity am I likely to be buying that causes anywhere near, cocaine levels of misery?

A lot of us do try to buy the right products that are produced and traded in an ethical manner not always successfully, but we try. The difference with purchasing illegal drugs is that you KNOW for certain that your purchase has caused death, pain and misery.

You know that the very same cartels control avocado production, right?  

So given that most scaffolders probably don’t eat avocado’s they’re probably ok with a few lines and it all balances out

Just out of interest, what perfectly legal, entirely non essential, recreational commodity am I likely to be buying that causes anywhere near, cocaine levels of misery

Booze. 3 million people dead every year.

I work on a lot of different sites in London (average probably 3 a week) and most of the big named construction companies have drink & drug policies, random testing & red card systems across the board, so regular drug users won’t last long. Smaller co’s & it’s pretty much a free for all anything goes so long as you get the work done.

Worked on many sites in the last 30 odd years. I’ve been tested once as they were also testing for other stuff being a high risk  environment, so fair enough.

I’ve refused before as Its not in my contract, the job I was doing wasn’t high risk and I wasn’t in prison.

They grumbled but needed the job doing and I was clearly sober.

I suspect part of the appeal of chemicals is the speed out of the system compared to weed (as I understand it).

Just out of interest, what perfectly legal, entirely non essential, recreational commodity am I likely to be buying that causes anywhere near, cocaine levels of misery

Tobacco? You can go and buy 20 Lambert and Butler any time you like

Just out of interest, what perfectly legal, entirely non essential, recreational commodity am I likely to be buying that causes anywhere near, cocaine levels of misery

Apple products?

You know that the very same cartels control avocado production, right?

I don't really buy avocado, so I may be out of date. Do Waitrose have them delivered by a 13yo on a dangerous, illegal ebike, working till 3am on school night to pay off their Sur Ron debt?

If so pinky swear I'll happily never touch another.

You know that the very same cartels control avocado production, right?

Your link relates to Mexican avocados. Seems the UK doesn't import many from there. 

But even if we did, it wouldn't cause the direct misery in this country due to county lines, etc. that cocaine use does. Plenty of environmental reasons to avoid them though, and many do.

The examples of booze and fags are different. The harm they cause is principally to the user - who makes that choice. Of course with booze there is also harm caused to people around the user, domestic violence etc. But neither have the gang crime, violence, linked human and sex trafficking and general misery throughout the supply chain that cocaine does. You could argue that is a good argument to legalise it and I would have some sympathy with that. But unless and until it is, users are knowingly enabling all of that for their own pleasure.

Tobacco? You can go and buy 20 Lambert and Butler any time you like.

I don't smoke, but if I did, as it is a legalised product and I am able to make informed choices, I'd only buy fairtrade tobacco products, no matter how much more expensive.

Like all smokers do.

Apple products?

I have an organic, fairtrade tree in the garden.

But unless and until it is, users are knowingly enabling all of that for their own pleasure.

And most people are really thinking about that when they rack up a fat rock star line?

The whole problem here is the ‘war on drugs’, which the drugs won about 40 years ago. Legalise it, or at least decriminalise it, tax it and start getting a grip on the supply so it’s not monopolised by the cartels.

Every advanced capitalist society is awash with coke. Why? Cos it’s a bit moreish. You’ll never change that, so we have to be realistic about how we deal with that fact.

The present system of continuing the policies that have so comprehensively failed for 4 decades is an absolute farce that serves nobodies interests other than the cartels

Until our society grows up and acknowledges the huge, endemic, totally normalised scale of drug use and the total failure of the present policies, things can only get worse

I agree with all of that Binners, but until the law changes making a choice to buy it enables serious harm to vulnerable people. Because it's a 'bit moreish'.

"And no one’s conscience seems to be bothered by the misery it causes across the planet."

"Thats quite an assertion. You’re basing that on your extensive research with drug users, I presume."

I understand your argument to be - the lack of legalisation is the issue and drug users long to be moral and responsible , if only they had the opportunity.

"But unless and until it is, users are knowingly enabling all of that for their own pleasure."

"And most people are really thinking about that when they rack up a fat rock star line?"

Whilst also acknowledging that your above argument is bollocks?

I agree with all of that Binners, but until the law changes making a choice to buy it enables serious harm to vulnerable people. Because it’s a ‘bit moreish’

We have to deal with the world as it is, rather than how we’d like it to be.

The 20 year olds racking up lines in the bog of the local pub aren’t even registering where it’s coming from any more than they know where the pint they’re drinking was brewed. That’s the reality. And when I was 20 and doing much the same, I wasn’t either.

And if those 20yos in the pub were driving home after five pints, this entire forum (quite rightly) would be screaming to call the cops, their boss and their Mum.

However, the attitude to being drugged up on Class A, whilst at work, driving, or just at home; having contributed 1st world levels of hard cash towards the undispuited misery and violence appears to be... it's ok the problem is the lack of legalisation.

Don't judge Baz the scaffolder.  He's a victim too.

We have to deal with the world as it is, rather than how we’d like it to be.

Indeed. In the world as we'd like it to be (perhaps) cocaine would be ethically produced and supplied by legit businesses not crime gangs.

In the world as it is, buying cocaine directly enables crime, violence and misery. In poor countries in South America and here in the UK, often to children. The consumers who don't GAS have a choice, plenty of 20 year olds,  construction workers and others manage to get by without.

Of course with booze there is also harm caused to people around the user, domestic violence etc. But neither have the gang crime, violence, linked human and sex trafficking and general misery throughout the supply chain that cocaine does.

Prohibition.

The US govt has, at best, turned a blind eye and, at worst, actively supported and profited from drug production in Central and South America. Is your average manual labouring 20-year-old buying some sniff is the problem?

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html

I understand and support the conversation here that drug production leads to misery, but I think if people want to make an impact, they'll have to do something more than patronise people who used drugs in their youth. (edited to clarify it's a broad statement not aimed at anyone in particular)

Nobody is arguing that government policy on drugs is sound. I am swayed by the argument that legalisation, whilst not a total panacea might be a better option. But that's not where we are.

At a personal level we can't change government policy, but we can make a moral choice whether or not put to money in the hands of crime gangs.  You talk about patronising young people? I would argue it's patronising to suggest they don't know where cocaine comes from or that it causes harm. They do. Some care and some don't. All have a choice.

It's not just youthful experimentation yonks ago either. In previous threads on here, some have hinted that they still use it regularly. People who would take a clear moral stance on most other things display (imo) massive cognitive dissonance on this subject. Saying it's all down to the government and my personal use has no impact is a cop out imo.

You have made a lot of reasonable and well explained points. I genuinely agree with most of what you're saying. I would like to continue discussing this as I think there's merit for some people who may read this thread.

I did make an attempt at writing some of my thoughts out but I have COVID and my brain is just not focusing enough to actually do this important topic justice. I just want to add that sometimes people end up using because factors in their life lead them to it. And while they know that there are people suffering because of it, it's difficult to see a way out.

I just want to add that sometimes people end up using because factors in their life lead them to it. And while they know that there are people suffering because of it, it’s difficult to see a way out.

That is true and I'm not belittling the issues around addiction.  Cocaine particularly though, seems to have a veneer of respectability amongst people who don't fall into that category.  Some of whom who are otherwise intelligent and compassionate people, perform mental gymnastics to convince themselves their personal use doesn't have any impact on those caught up in its production and supply.  It's somehow a harmless lifestyle drug or a right of passage for the young and daft which does no harm.  I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks that, but plenty of people do.

Just an update on the opening post. Son did day 2 and got paid cash in hand for his works. Business owner said there would be more work for him if he wanted it. Son not interested. He did the days he said he would, not for him going forward though.

Charlie was on offer again, declined however he was given a beer around lunchtime whilst on the job do the final clean up. He likes a beer so accepted. Got home mid afternoon with a shine on and a small but not insignicant wad of cash. All fingers, toes and limbs intact. Life experience garnered.

Your son sounds like a good lad.  Best of luck with his PGCE - sounds like he'll be an asset to teaching.

Came for the chat about classic massive attack albums, is disappoint.

Right shape, wrong colour.

Well bemoaning the unavailability of fair trade cocaine is peak something or other.