[Closed] Which small sporty (200+bhp) car?

Ford Fiesta ST doesn't fit into your list at all there, way out of its league (it cant even compete with comparable sized cars from other manufacturers)

Are you really wanting a coupe or a hot-hatch? Also, there's a reason why RX-8s are dirt cheap

Yeah I wondered about RX8s and why they are so cheap, enlighten me? I drive a Vectra so speed is just a word to me...

She's not specific really, open to suggestions...Any nice Mercedes to be had for 6K?

Once drove a prodrive rx8, in fact spanked it on a Mazda freebie day, it was quick but not that quick. One of the most fun cars was a Clio sport, keep it on the limit and its a blast. Tts are dull! Never driven a focus st so can't comment, been an impreza owner for 8 yrs now and there's little that will live with them for the same money.

Alfa mito or gulietta cloverleaf?

Honda S2000.

The Mazda is cheap for a reason, they eat fuel like it is going out of fashion.

That's quite a lot of power, you could still have plenty of fun with less.

Yeah I wondered about RX8s and why they are so cheap, enlighten me? I drive a Vectra so speed is just a word to me...

Google how much the engine rebuilds cost and you have your answer 🙂

I like the 370z, but its quite a big car....1700kg, iirc. Not sure if that fits your requirements.

bradley - Member
Yeah I wondered about RX8s and why they are so cheap, enlighten me?

Drink fuel, drink oil (intentionally mind you), if it's been spanked from cold the engine can be looking at a rebuild from as early as 40k miles (but you wouldn't probably find out until it's buggered), no low grunt so need to rev the tits off it to get anywhere, once fired up you need to let it warm before you can switch it off again. Think there might be more too, basically the 350Z would be a better option in every way

Honda S2000 is a good one. They do look nice too. Will send that one her way.

Is the issue with RX-8s the fact that the rotary engines longevity is a crock of s*** and low MPG? If so then fair enough, not worth it really.

RX8 is a lovely car but rports of engin life being 60,000 miles are nt good. Rotary engine is a great idea but they dont make many of these for good reason.

Audi A3 sport?

I think she's likely to go with a TT, ffs. They already have an Audi Q5, although through my dads work, but Audis are SO overpriced imo.

I wish she would be sensible and go for the 350Z or something different to a TT.

I suggested a sporty A3 but mum and dads response was that they're not 'sporty' enough, not fast enough basically. My dad wont admit it but he's having a mid-life crisis 😀

Renault Clio V6....
[img] [/img]

They are superfast, limited edition, virtually hand built, and great fun to drive. Look hard and you'll find a phase 1 (the drivers car).

SB

civic type r.
focus st.
golf vr6/r32

Look hard and you'll find a phase 1 (the drivers car).

wrong way round, ph1s werent even regarded as being as good as 172s. ph2s (like you've pictured) is where it's at - hence the sizeable price difference

Well, if they want [i]fast...[/i]

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Of course, it might be just a [i]teensy[/i] bit outside their budget... 😆

Had the Honda S2000 and still wish that i still had it.It is the type of car that, if you were going to the local paper shop then you would go the long way round, even if it was another 20 miles or so.
Great fun with rear wheel drive and a sublime gearbox but scary in the wet,also eat rear tyres.

And so the

330i? How about an '06?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e90-3-series-05-11/bmw-3-series-e90-330i-m-sport-2006/1042548

Trying to change at the moment as I really fancy a Golf Gti edition 30

Edit: Re read the OP!

Civic type R?

Nissan Juke R?

Might be a snippet over budget though....

Does she want to rag it in corners or just a bit of kick now and then? If the latter then an Astra VXR would be a hoot. Scary in bends though.

Mazda 3 MPS?
Swift, (about 265bhp) cheapish and not too bad looking......

They have a great Bose stereo in them 🙂

And so the

Well.... maybe not practical....

PS - OP, have a think about the Vauxhall VX220 - it's a Lotus Elise for Ford Fiesta money.

Flying Ox - have you looked at how much they are then? They are around the same as an Elise last time I looked.

Flying Ox - have you looked at how much they are then? They are around the same as an Elise last time I looked.

the ones of us who do a bit of research, the ones who actually know a bit about the rotary engine will always have a vast array of tremendous, practical, cheap sports cars at our fingertips

feel free to enlighten us in the art of RX-8 buying. I would honestly be interested to know if anything in my own post was off the mark

Well they hardly "drink oil" for starters, and the oil they do burn costs about £4 a litre. What's the problem with that? You want figures? I'd say about 500mL/1000 miles. That's a conservative guess with the mileage, too. I get about 3000 miles/L from mine.

Any engine spanked from cold will be suffering. That's not a trait unique to rotary engines. And it's disingenuous to put an arbitrary mileage on when an engine might lose compression. It always seems to be somewhere between 30-40,000 miles, eh? Want to hazard a guess at how long a 231bhp 1.3L piston engine would last?

No low grunt? You driven many? It's as fast off the mark as any n/a car I've ever driven. And can you give me a real-world situation where this percieved "lack of grunt" presents a problem?

You mention "revving its tits off" like that's a bad thing. It has a 9000 rpm red line and it's a sports car. It's meant to be fun. Fun doesn't involve changing gear at 2,500 rpm, at least not in my book. Do you bemoan sportsbikes for having 14,000 RPM redlines?

Yes, there are compromises involved, not least the pretty dire fuel economy, but what gets my goat is the constant, inevitable nay-saying that puts potential owners off. They're great cars that would suit a great many petrolheads. They just need a slightly more diligent approach to care and maintenance than your average diesel Golf, that's all. The ones that are looked after last for a lot longer than the "pub limit" of 40k miles. But I suppose that doesn't fit with the hivemind opinion, does it?

If you're after my buying advice, apart from checking for the usual suspension knocks & rust as you would on any car, I'd spend £1k on an eBay non-runner. Trailer it to DM-Motorsport or the like and get a full rebuild and port - should cost somewhere between £2500 and £3000. You've now got a warrantied, brand new engine - with a lot more of the fabled "bottom end grunt" - and a brilliant chassis for £5k less than a bottom/middle-of-the-market 350Z. Then just keep on top of the oil and coolant levels, and make sure the ignition components are changed every 30,000 miles. It's not hard, really, but so many ex-owners just treated them like common-or-garden shopping cars and that's not how to do it. Hence the ridiculously low prices.

That V8 Atom is sublime, saw one in Edinburgh and just looking at it was epic....

+1 for the Type R, but the EP3 is better than the newer one

No low grunt is true, isn't it? The torque output of an rx8 is very low, so yes, no low-end grunt.
From memory, I think they have 110lb ft or something (could be completely wrong). My Ibiza has 228.

The rx8 though revs to buggery, so gets it's performance that way.

I'd love to have one (although I'd actually really like an rx-7).

How many folk that ask this question want to buy something for a grand off Ebay to then get it taken to so&so on a trailer, to then get i...

Woah! He just wants to buy a car! Not get one he's never driven, FIXED!

I never said they don't have "poor" low-end grunt. It's just that I can't see how this presents a single valid argument against the RX8 other than in Pub Top Trumps. In the real world they're remarkably quick off the line, low torque or not.

And it's the 7 I've got 8)

Do it 😈

I was asked for buying advice. That's what I'd do. You can always spend £6-7k on one already sorted. Just buy from the owners' club, rather than eBay/Autotrader/Pistonheads.

I was hugely tempted by an RX-8 lovely cars, I could not give one that bit if extra thought that's needed in ownership (talk to real owners not hearsay) but ultimately the boot wasn't suited to my needs. The interiors are really nice and I didn't find a lack of low end grunt in the ones I test drove. Absolute bargain for the money, as usual someone you have just met will tell you their TD-what-now is quicker uses less oil & can seat someone 7'2" in comfort, hope you saved up for the 12,000 mile complete engine rebuild and all that.

And those clever little half rear doors look good and make getting into the back dead easy too.

BIL has one and in comparison to my Clio 197 it feels far more plush and sports car like to be in.

Apologies for the bullets that follow, using phone so sparing words.

1. Not a problem as such, just something that you don't have to do with the competitors - see Fox stanchion thread.
2. What I found when looking up info indicated that rotarys are more susceptible to damage than 'normal' piston engines. I believe that they variable rev-limiter was introduced on the face-lift models to help combat this?
3. 0-60 times don't equal grunt. A powerful Diesel engine is the polar opposite, but torquey feeling bit doesn't necessarily post low figures. Indeed, as long as you're in the right gear at the right time it isn't a problem - my own car isn't much different!
4. Didn't moan about it being able to rev high, but many people do like having power available lower down the rev range. This is something that the S2000 was often criticised for too.
5. Agreed, you mention "the ones that are looked after" should last. IMO any modern engine should last a lot longer regardless of care and attention (within reason obviously). And jeez stop being so tetchy, I drive a £3,000 182 so am used to speaking to people about my choices too.
And your very last point: unfortunately they were sold as shopping carts that you could then go tearing around the countryside in, so people were bound to treat them as such.

Cheers,
Legend

"Sporty"? Cheap?
Leon Cupra.

Mazda MPS is a good, fairly sensible choice.
Honda Type-R is the purists choice
Megane Renaultsport are really great cars to drive

Mini, Focus, Astra, Alfa and loads of others all have similar cars, plenty to choose from.
RX-8 is potentially brilliant, but they don't like short journeys. You have to warm them up, otherwise it might not restart when you try to. If you never do short journeys its fine. Really need to be revved to be quick though.

Merc SLK, a 320 in a MK1 or whatever you can get for your money in a MK2. Fast, more of a cruiser than a pocket rocket though.

"Fast" is such a catch all term though- fast high speed cruiser, fast off the line push you back in your seat, fast around the corners....

Fast is very vague though but I never said fast lol. Any small car with 200+bhp is gonna thump you back in your seat and accelerate nicely out of corners, same as the Mini. The Minis issue is it's a 160bhp car but with an extra 50bhp, nothing else upgraded it seems. Gearbox isn't very nice, brakes are poor, run flats are awful grip!

My mum is going to look at an Audi TT 2003 plate with 66K miles tomorrow for £5500 with 'all the extras' and I think has every intention of buying it, shame because I emailed her an 05 350Z with 57K miles and some 'extras' that looked really nice for £4250!? HELLO??????????

Thanks guys, I will probably update you all later this afternoon after she comes round with dad to show me the new TT -.-

Skyline?

[img] https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8SReTBIjJsmgQR1F1pt5Wn2HHJFTiFNOrByYujmCL1jLpz-Sd [/img]

£6k won't get you an R34 GTR...

but I never said fast lol.

Err, yes you did.

not fast enough basically.

Horribly patronising I know but maybe a TT is the right car for her. MK1 TT is imo a bit of design classic, plenty of grunt (so is very "fast" in that respect) and feel like a sports car inside. The fact that it is not the last word in cornering might not be an issue for a middle aged lady.....who probably won't driving it like too much of a nutter or take is to track days etc. It's got a nice middle aged friendly badge - all good.

My apologies convert. She wanted something sporty/quick/small so I guess a TT fits into this category but I know for a fact it's her badge snobbery not allowing her to get into the Nissan or Honda 🙁 350Z seems a much better buy.

Oh well I'm sure I'll still get a go in whatever it is for an hour or so :p

Clio 197
500 Arbath

hora - Member
Clio 197
500 Arbath
POSTED 8 MINUTES AGO #

500 Abarth with 200bhp+ for £6k?

Audi [s]A[/s][b]S[/b]3 [s]sport[/s]

Alfa GTA:[img] [/img]

I had an RX8 231bhp for exactly a year.
Enjoyed driving it. Handled superbly on B roads etc.
It was 57 plate bought from a main dealer with less than 40k on the clock for a Smidge over £6k in August 2011. Lost £3k p/x a year later with 48k miles.
Only let me down once due to a flat battery. Commuted daily, short journeys, long journeys no worries.
Got rid cos I needed something more practical and 17mpg is not a long term proposition.
And £475 tax.
Having said all that I enjoyed owning and driving my 1.7 puma more. Kept that for 8 years. Able to be driven at 90% regularly without worries. 120bhp/ton is quick enough for the public road IMO.
Cars like the ones in this thread need track days to do them justice.

Impreza WRX or mk1 STI?
Pretty compact epsecially the mk1s and certainly sporty. Thirsty though.

Ooh Clio v6, very nice. Don't they try to kill you every
time you drive them though?

2nd hand Elise?

How about an Audi s3 mk1 you should be able to get one for less than 6 k, 210 bhp Quattro recaros etc a lot nicer and more practical than a tt. You can also chip it to over 250 bhp
Not as involving a Subaru but a nice quick car

I'm not sure how a Skyline or an Impreza fits into the small car category. The only thing I can think of that matches what you ask for is a clio 197, give or take a few bhp. With whatever exhaust is the best bet for an extra 10hp or so, surely this is what has to be on the shortlist? It'll possibly come with an uprated exhaust and also a few other subtle tweaks I would have thought.

Interesting how peoples thoughts vary. I have had the disappointment of driving a Clio 192 Sport, the most disappointing hot hatch ever for me.
The Mazda 3 MPS is a good shout but a real handfull in the wet and they eat front tyres. They dont take the miles or age very well in my opinion.
Focus ST, nice easy to drive fast car. Seat Leon FR likewise. Volvo C30 T5 R design is a lovely smooth car let down by its miniscule boot.
Based on availability on your budget Focus ST or Seat Leon (maybe even a Cupra).
For me I think I would favour.....Aerial Atom too 😛

Leon Cupra
BMW 130i
350z

RX-8s cost the price of a kidney to Tax, in excess of £400!

Someone already said that above ^^

Suggsey - Member
I have had the disappointment of driving a Clio 192 Sport

understandable, you should try a 182 or a 197 instead 😉

Having actually now read the OP properly (a rarity on STW) I see the car is for Mum - chances of influence are approximately zero.

The Mazda 3 MPS is a good shout but a real handfull in the wet and they eat front tyres