[Closed] Which myth?

myth? is there something I haven't been told?

Mr Hankey

Santa.

Nah, both is fine. No difference between one imaginary friend and two is there?

Santa is better since there's almost no risk that he'll be stuck believing it for life.

Jesus and Santa Claus, are you American?

oddly enough was discussing myths today with my 5 year old. He accepts Odysseus lived but the stories are not true - cyclops etc. He accpepts Jesus lived but the stories are not true.
After discussing Santa I asked him what he thought might be a myth he said - Danny Macaskill!!
Essentially they are both a lie and I was not comfortable BS to my child. why not just say here I love you I got you this? I was outvoted on this so Santa wins as the lesser of two evils.
not sure they are mutually exclusive though

Jesus isn't a myth. People don't like to think about the implications though.

I like Tiger Myths personally. <rimshot>

Celibate Jewish Zombie or fat bearded man who sneaks into your house, eats your mince pies and leaves presents for children? Decisions, decisions.

That if the wind changes his face'll be stuck like that.

Jesus isn't a myth.

Jesus isn't a myth

Jethus was a mythster.

jesus doesn't come down your chimney bearing gifts see he can... er... go away!

In the old testament, they say that jesus can bum you til you can't walk.

Hmmm, I may be simple but we do both here...

Are they not complementary? Or can't you at least figure a story to make them so?

I have to watch it though as once I was told off on a forum for lying to my children about the tooth fairy not coming one night.

Jyane Middlemyth?

On a serious point though, I'm OK with him being taught the nativity in theological terms, but ultimately that it was a story.

If he wants to develop his own religious faith when he gets older, that's fine, but I refuse to let him believe that religious stories are anything more than that.

The Jesus story is too far fetched, along with God, whatever that is....

Father Christmas is a docu-soap by comparison.

My 5 year old thoroughly believes in father Christmas, but I hope she follows her dad in being of the opinion that all religion is a pile of superstitious nonsense.

I think she knows that the Gruffalo isn't real so she's on the right track.

Stoner - tell him that all his Christmas presents came to him by virtue of the accumulative wealth which was created from fictitious capital as a result of free-market dynamics.

Like that he might grow up to share the same myths as his Father 💡

I was planning on going for "the earthen toil of the working man providing succour for his bairns." 😉

Yup. We've 3 kids and upset the grandparents when we didn't do the whole christening thing.
The kids have been encouraged to understand and respect the range of religious beliefs and gods and make up their own minds when they're older.
They've been told that while Jesus did exist - some 'stories' could be a bit fanciful! Also, the earth is more than 7000yrs old and it wasn't made in a week.

Father Xmas does exist though!
.... And according to the missus, if the 14yr old and 9yr old tell the 5yr old that he doesn't then they jeopardise their presents on the big day!

Stoner - Member
I was planning on going for "the earthen toil of the working man providing succour for his bairns."

Sounds like you are going to have a right happy Christmas (as well as ernie) 😆

Talk about blowing a little one's brains!

Father Xmas brings you lots of presents you can play with.

Jesus may save your soul but no presents under the Xmas tree.

I know which one works for me 🙂

just tell the child all pressies come online now within 24hrs of paypal payment and all theological beliefs have been replaced by our modern age of cynicism and science. Give him 40mg of Citalopram before bedtime and remind him sternly that the daft wonderment and imagination he has now will be replaced soon enough. There we go.

Just tell him that Maggie comes down the chimney and brings the present. I mean, it's been your fantasy (in a more adult fashion of course) for years hasn't it? 😛

Nicely put Kevevs.

Im wondering how the Mr Men fit into kevevs world? Mr Happy's an outcast, isnt he? 😉

kevevs - do you want a hug?

Maybe not 40mg.

jeez guys, I'm just having a laugh! I don't think my sense of humour comes across very well on here!
I don't see the problem with a little kiddie getting into santa and nativity plays and stuff, it's not like they can make their minds up about stuff!

So you don't want a hug? 🙁

what's the nipper going to get from spiritual fuzziness ? he just wants chocolate and wii games.

st nick ftw

yeah why not 🙂

Im inclined to go for Santa. I mean, we grow out of Santa Claus - the Myth.

Far too many people dont grow out of Jesus- The Myth.

Im not going to take the chance 🙂

tell him that all his Christmas presents came to him by virtue of the accumulative wealth which was created from fictitious capital as a result of free-market dynamics

and is he old enough for Santa to give him one of those pen knives with the special blade for removing bread from the mouths of the poor?

so what you're saying is, you don't trust your child to make up their own mind when they get older? I'd say, tell the child all the religious stories from all cultures, let the kid know there are different people about with different ideas, get the kid involved in the world as it is good or bad. that'd be cool! but I haven't got a kid, I've got bikes, so don't take any notice of me!

Im inclined to go for Santa. I mean, we grow out of Santa Claus - the Myth.

Agreed. And if he is struggling to grow out of it, you can always recount to him that hunt you once went on.......

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That should put an end to it.

aww poor santa 🙁 who gets dead santas pressies?

I'd say, tell the child all the religious stories from all cultures, let the kid know there are different people about with different ideas, get the kid involved in the world as it is good or bad

and I will.

Im perfectly comfortable with theology as an historic dialogue.

But I wont cultivate blind faith in my house. Faith MUST be voluntary, not programmed. And there's no way a 4yr old can make decisions of faith. In fact IMO they cant until they are at least 15, 16, or even 20 in some cases.

GG - that gunman has clearly got a double-barrelled shotgun there and there's four 'birds' down in that foto which would require incredible skill given the air speed of that species. I think that foto might be a fake.

aww poor santa who gets dead santas pressies?

Yeah I suppose it's a bit harsh Kevevs, but Stoner can soften the blow by claiming that he didn't mean to kill Santa. It was Rudolf and his mates that he was after - Santa unfortunately just got caught by a stray bullet. I'm sure that Junior will grow up to be a well balanced toff who fully understands the necessity of gallivanting through the British countryside terrorising and slaughtering wildlife 💡

Christmas can be wonderful without awkwardly subscribing to things that you don't believe/ feel comfortable with. What do you want from it?

Take it away Tim:

Quite moving isn't it?

Actually, I think that is almost the declaration: Thread closed.

The theologies of both Father Christmas (not Santa, this isn't Power Cable, Idaho) and Christianity are remarkably similar:

Behave in a way that others tell you and good things will happen (presents/heaven).
Don't do what you're told to do then bad things will happen (no presents/hell).

As there is genuine factual evidence of Father Christmas and his belief system (the delivery or non delivery of presents depending on the behaviour of the child) but not one shred of evidence to prove the existence of heaven or hell, it is therefore safe to assume that Father Christmas exists, but God does not.

Hope this helps.

RS - Thats the kind of empirical logic I can work with... 😉

should you really be teaching children that a fat jolly man watches/stalks all year to see if they have been good and he'll then visit them at night and empty his sack. 😯

alternatively teach them about mithras as it's his birthday that the zombie jew chappy who couldn't hold marbles nicked. 😀

good one Kunstler

Wait! Isn't Santa Claus one of those religious saint types?

Stoner - your OP seems to suggest that the root of this problem is that your wife has faith and you don't. I don't feel for a second that Santa and Jesus can't live in harmony in the mind of your offspring

It's just one of many idiosyncrasies born of bringing up a child in the UK - it's normal, it's expected and why not?

Well that's you going to hell 😆 😆 😆

The theologies of both Father Christmas (not Santa, this isn't Power Cable, Idaho)

Pretty sure Father Christmas is an English thing, Scotland use Santa almost exclusively and always have

Childhood is really good, but too short.

White wine in the sun is a lush song. Loved mrs toasts description of Jesus!

Still Santa though, he's not bothered if you're queer

Still Santa though, he's not bothered if you're queer

What, and Jesus is ? Oh dear, I sense a trip in the Thought Police panda car for that one.

I've been collared for expressing that thought crime before.

Lying to your kids 😯 and filling their heads with nonsense, in my book it's right up there with plopping them down in front of the TV, so they can become well balanced, deranged lunatics in a few years.

We don't do the kids of this day and age any favours, up until they're 16 they live in lala land, with no real grasp of the world. Then at 16 they're supposed to become adults over night 😯 .

I think the point of this time of year is to reflect on what's happend to us and learn all we can, from our experiences and contemplation and also to strengthen the bonds that we have with the people who make our lives worth living 😀

AKA the people who can loan us stuff when we really need it and the people we trust enough to loan stuff too 😆

HoHoHo!

What, and Jesus is ? Oh dear, I sense a trip in the Thought Police panda car for that one.

Lying to your kids and filling their heads with nonsense.............We don't do the kids of this day and age any favours, up until they're 16 they live in lala land

You know kids who believe in Santa until they're 16 ? 😯

The book he's a character in seems fairly clear on the subject

A fact not lost on me, as I've been chastised for suggesting as much. Something which you might have picked up on had you read the whole post.

School had a go at us when my daughter who was 7 at the time informed class quite casually that Santa was just made up by parents - there were a few tears and angry parents 😯

A fact not lost on me, as I've been chastised for suggesting as much. Something which you might have picked up on had you read the whole post.

I didn't believe any of it when I was a nipper.
I didn't let on.........
I knew where the prezzies were hidden! 😈

there's no place for 7 year old children to have their heads filled with such nonsense as Santa. is there no room on the curriculum at that age for quantum physics or maybe learning about the holocaust ?

Every child should be forced to visit Santa's grave........

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😆

What happens when Stoner Jr loses teeth? Does the tooth fairy visit?

He'll soon work out it's all tosh. But that doesn't matter. Kids are are very good at getting enjoyment from things that know are not real, they enjoy going along with the game just for the ride.

As for Jesus nonsense. Kids get a sharp reminder from me that it's not to be believed and not to waste too much of their attention on it. My 7 year old treats RE as a bit of an irritation, but it's also part of her education to understand that everything teachers tell her is not necessarily true. She's getting good at that, it doesn't stop her enjoying the Nativity play. - It's a fairy tale.

Having thought about this carefully I think you should teach your child to believe in Tim Minchin . He looks the part and has a lot more that's good and true about him than either of the Myths

Which one is most likely to leave some biking-related goodies under the tree on the 25th...though i'm very grateful for the other fella for sorting out some holidays at this time of year...

sorting out some holidays at this time of year

he didnt though. He just did the re-branding exercise.

He accpepts Jesus lived

Why?

isnt there sufficient historical record of the existence of some annoying preachy bugger around that time in the middle east?

His 12-strong PR team saw to the rest.

Nope. Hearsay only.

bit more than hearsay though?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Erm, no.

"There is no evidence for the existence of Jesus that comes from his time—no writings or artifacts of his, no accounts of him written in his lifetime"

Woppit is Stalin............all "inconvenient persons" are simply deemed to have never existed in the first place

There..................that should sort it out. Simple really.

bit more than hearsay though?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Stoner I'm not sure if you read the same article as the one you refer to there, because I a haven't found anything in that article that makes the case for Jesus being any more than hearsay. Funny though because despite being a fundamental atheist, I always thought the the person called Jesus did exist..

der double post

Steady on toys, do not call down the wrath of the one who sees and knows all, upon your unworthy head...

Yeah I think he did that already. I'm shorter than most people..

"There is no evidence for the existence of Jesus that comes from his time—no writings or artifacts of his, no accounts of him written in his lifetime"

There's, apparently, more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for Julius Caesar.

Jesus will do far more damage to your kid's life than finding out Father Christmas isn't real at age 9 or whatever.

Father Christmas all the way.