[Closed] where would you buy a place in the alps? Skiing / mtb / road

Bourg St Maurice...

Samoens/Morzine area or if not, anywhere Portes du Soleil

Oo I love these "if we won the pools" things 🙂

Probably Italy for me somewhere warn not far from the coast but not too far away from the mountains for Skiing/running!

Megeve. One hour from Geneva, beautiful resort, great in summer, no lager louts, but expensive.

Alternatively, Samoens. Cheaper, just as close to GVA and good lift system as well as superb walking and good cycling.

Let's face it can you face only going to one place for the next 10 years of holiday? I'd go with something with good rental return and investment potential.

I'm in la Plagne at the moment, they seem to have the best snow in pretty poor conditions this year. I always self drive, stop over at Lyon, just bought one of those dart tags which makes the tolls a breeze.

Bourg St Maurice. Lots of affordable apartments by the funicular.

Though saying that, we did spend a week in Saalbach-Hinterglemm over Christmas - what a great place. 1hr from Salzburg, massive ski area (200km) with a super-efficient lift system and apparently it's a big MTB centre (Leogang is on the same lift system). Much better as a resort than Les Arcs - great bars, restaurants etc. The only downside is that I would imagine the ski season to be shorter than Les Arcs (in a good year - when we skied at Christmas there was more snow in Austria than in LA).

Bourg D'Oisans for me.
1 hour from Grenoble (which is a great place in its own right) so you can both fly and train there.
Good skiing at Alpe D'Huez and Les Deux Alpe.
Good mountain biking at both the above as well.
Good road stuff all around, Galibier, Telegraph, etc. are all very close.
And it's a real town with bars and restaurants that are open all year.

Another vote for BsM. Perfect for what you describe.

Semmering

@ed what's your idea of reasonably priced ? £300-400 will get you something in France, you'll need nearer a £1m for larger French resorts or Switzerland.

To the above I would add La Clusaz or down the hill a bit, I recall an STWer (and pilot) living in Alex a hamlet just above Lake Annecy. La Clusaz is quite low so skiing can be variable but great summer and winter.

Sainte Foy where White Room are based is nice, a new development in the 1990's but done sympathetically, lots of English owners there.

A friend of mine have bought recently in Chamrousse

You might possibly find something in La Chable below Verbier or in one of the outlying villages of Chamonix valley if you have a bigger budget

I would say don't get something in Bourg, not really a holiday destination as such. You could look up in Peisey-Vallandry

As a "out there" suggestion you might look at Lenzerheide or Arosa in Switzerland but possibly out of budget range.

Happy Hunting

EDIT I cannot comment on road biking suitability, La Clusaz would be good for that, the others I am not so sure.

somewhere east of lake Geneva, but west of Vienna.
in a town or somewhere near an Alp rather than half way up one, and easy access to train, autobahn/autoroute and an airport.

and since Salzburg was mentioned, not just a massive array of ski villages on one ski pass, but there's also the Salzburger ski pass or something which gives access to an even larger array of ski areas on one pass. 20+ Ski Areas (not resorts... areas) and 2000km+ of piste (no idea what you can get for summer though).

currently in the middle of doing just this. (French property buying legal process is tortuously long... 🙄 )

For the last 8yrs or so we've done the nomad/charabanc thing with the campervan around France, but the kids now are happiest in familiar places rather than spending timing travelling between new places so we decided it was a good time to get a family base in an area with lots to do all year round.
We've been visiting Morzine for 10 yrs and love the area, the fact that it's "open" all year round (maybe Oct/Nov and May are a bit dead, but as a former mining town, it's got some life about it outside of the main holiday seasons too) as well as all the basics such as easy to get to (<15hrs drive), easy to fly to (£<50 return from Brizzle to GVA), plenty of transfer vans, appeals to mates to rent at a mates-rate to cover some of the costs of ownership (Taxe d'Habitation/Taxe Fonciere/EDF) and you can get a small studio for v little. Not to mention €:£ is pretty good at the moment. Its not something I'd aim to let out properly since I plan on being out there for over 12wks a year anyway with the kids with me in skool hols and sometimes on my own in term time. I've actually gone for a village we know and like v near morzine rather than the town itself. As much as Im looking forward to having it as an MTB and Snowboarding base, and the wife is a Roadie, Im particularly excited about doing some big bivvy hikes.

EDIT:

ed what's your idea of reasonably priced ? £300-400 will get you something in France, you'll need nearer a £1m for larger French resorts or Switzerland.

Bloody hell jamba, dont be daft! You can get a perfectly functional studio to base yourself from for €60-100k

A guy I used to ride with had a place in Chatel. Those in the group unburdened by wives and kids said it was very nice...

Friend of ours had a place in Morzine, only thing would put me off is we had to drive to Avoriaz and get the cable up for the best snow area..

you dont have to drive to avoriaz, you can take the cable from the middle of town up to super morzine and then on to Avoriaz without driving (and down again if you cant ski down). Perhaps your friends place wasnt in easy walking distance of the middle of town and if you were in a car anyway, you might as well drive on up to the car park at the top?

@stoner, I was talking about 2-3 bedroom places. Another friend bought a studio in Avoriaz when it was unfashionable and needed renovation for less than £20k. Studios can be quite hard to rent out and IMO frankly not that great when you visit.

I wouldn't buy in BsM either. Yes it's near good stuff but its a pretty dull, soulless town. I'd want somewhere that was nice to hang out in itself not just near nice bits.

I'd look at Austria too. Generally cheaper and more civilised/less busy than France.

EDIT:
ed what's your idea of reasonably priced ? £300-400 will get you something in France, you'll need nearer a £1m for larger French resorts or Switzerland.
Bloody hell jamba, dont be daft! You can get a perfectly functional studio to base yourself from for €60-100k

yeah i though our plan was scuppered then when i read Jambas post! But luckily as Stoner says prices for small apartments are not too bad.

Being in the same place for 10 + years doesnt bother me, my parents had a tiny holiday bungalow in norhtumberland when i was growing up and i spent most weekends and school hols up there for 15+ years, never got bored

ed - pm me if you want introducing to a handy agent in the PDS area as well as a specialist french property lawyer here in the UK who's handling ours.

My Wife and I were daydreaming about the same last Summer as we strolled around Morzine looking in the windows of the Estate Agents - the odd thing we there seemed to be 2 tier pricing - in 1 windows there were some lovely looking, and vast places pretty cheap (everything being relative) EU250k for 4 beds, garage, endless view etc - but in the other window a 2 bed apartment might be EU500k.

I assumed that you needed a special licence / type of place or whathaveyou to be able to rent them out and they were the expensive ones, and others for whatever reason you couldn't and were residential only and hence much cheaper - any truth in that? Or were they simply too far away from a lift?

I would say don't get something in Bourg, not really a holiday destination as such. You could look up in Peisey-Vallandry

The campsite would suggest otherwise!

Peisey-Vallandry is lovely, as is Nancroix village, but there are definitely pros and cons to both in terms of transport convenience, amenities, night life, seclusion, peace and quiet, MTB trails etc. We've looked at P-V as a base in the summer and it just doesn't work as well as BSM for us (but then we don't have kids, which is a big factor). I should imagine Peisey is good value for buying though.

I also think Arcs 1800 is going to become a lot more popular as a summer resort as the years go by - they are certainly developing it in that way. We've been going to Bourg for the last 3 summers and 1800 gets busier every year (outdoors pools, kids activities, etc).

Much better as a resort than Les Arcs - great bars, restaurants etc. The only downside is that I would imagine the ski season to be shorter than Les Arcs (in a good year - when we skied at Christmas there was more snow in Austria than in LA).

I'd go for the other side of the valley from Les Arcs, that way you can ski over to Italy etc.

PJ - its v location, location, location. A 4 bed chalet on it's own plot a few minutes walk from a main lift will cost >€10,000/sqm, whereas a studio in a village elsewhere in the valley (say, St Jean d'Aulpes) can be had for as little as €2-2,500/sqm

Larger, more readily lettable units (near lifts etc) have their values bumped up massively as they fall into holiday company territory.

you dont have to drive to avoriaz, you can take the cable from the middle of town up to super morzine and then on to Avoriaz without driving

Yeah, maybe we had to drive to Super Morzine... was a long time ago. He was in "Millionaire's Row" 🙂

oh how the other half, debbie, oh how the other half 😉

Ed - if you're starting in the Lakes (I think you are) you want somewhere not to far from an airport. You may drive sometimes but Lakes to Alps is a fair trek to do frequently by road.

I'm thinking PdS, perhaps one of the villages over the back from the main resort villages.

Stoner - some day I might need your property people / lawyer. Hopefully. Some day...

wallop - Member
Though saying that, we did spend a week in Saalbach-Hinterglemm over Christmas - what a great place. 1hr from Salzburg, massive ski area (200km) with a super-efficient lift system and apparently it's a big MTB centre (Leogang is on the same lift system). Much better as a resort than Les Arcs - great bars, restaurants etc. The only downside is that I would imagine the ski season to be shorter than Les Arcs (in a good year - when we skied at Christmas there was more snow in Austria than in LA).

I don't do the skiing thing but have been to Saalbach-Hinterglemm the last 2 summers and booked there again this year.

Lots of trails for me and lots of other stuff to visit to keep the other half happy as she doesn't do the difficult MTB stuff.

Key thing for the summer is a property that includes the Joker card, this gives many discounts in the area but more importantly free access to all the lifts in the 2 villages (4 running during the summer (3 of them are doubles)), also use of the Lift at Leogang but I believe that isn't free more than once a day but could be wrong on that one?
It's also very close to Zell-am-Zee which is apparently very popular.

@ed - didn't mean to spook you. Depends what you are looking for. A lot of "locals" have studios as they drive up from the cities for weekends. My friend in Avoriaz only lives 60 mins away so doesn't need a big place. I admit I am fussy I wouldn't spend a week in a ski studio, a 1 bedroomed apartment at 40sqm yes.

Don't forget it will cost 10% in transaction costs/taxes to purchase in France.

For those recommending Austria you need to check local planning laws, for example in St Anton you cannot buy for a second home/holiday place.

EDIT Good luck by the way, I'd love to have a place in the mountains. My hard luck story is being denied to chance to buy a place by my wife at the time back in early 1990's - 3 bed in Verbier village was £350k, now £2m.

40sqm would be 2bed at least.

Studios are around 18-20sqm, 1bed studio/apartment (i.e. separate bedroom) 20-25m.

We live in a campervan for 4weeks at a time, a 23sqm 1 bed apartment is positively cavernous.

EDIT: Just a note on costs transaction costs (taxes, notary fees) are a combination of % and fixed fees. For cheapest properties, it will come to around 9.5% but fall to 7% or so for expensive properties. UK specialist solicitor is charging me a flat rate around £2k. but that includes a succession report (NB owning French property is a bit weird in terms of succession and estate planning)

Within the purchase price will be the vendor's agent's fee - for tax purposes you take it off the purchase price.

I've lived in a 1 bed-er of 45sqm, its just personal but I wouldn't buy anything much smaller I'd rather rent. French are happy to live/holiday in small spaces.

one last thing I forgot to mention is that thanks to a tip off here recently, I've started using transferwise and they are going to save me around 5% on currency conversion costs compared to my bank. That's a huge amount of saving.

spending your pension pot isnt a good idea

how much are you looking to spend? somewhere in Austria may be worth a look like schladming, hinterglimm or saalbach?

Le Bourg d'Oisans for me also. I have already chosen the house !!

What are French property taxes like? If I bought an apartment in Morzine or Chamonix for €200k what would I have to pay per year in the French equivalent of council tax?

Chamonix for me.

Don't think it's cheap there though.

It's high, so you 'should' get good snow in the winter, so better rentals & its heaving in the summer with all sorts of outdoor activities.

two kinds of tax, one for living, one for owning:

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/local-property-taxes/

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/local-property-taxes/fonciere/

For the small property Im buying, last years' Taxes for the previous owner (it's owner specific) were about €275 each.

Can i be the first to ask for the STW "discount" on a couple of weeks in August??? 😉

The taxes are a lot higher the further up the mountain you are. I did this 10 years ago.

I did this 10 years ago.

Do share your experience - this is whetting my appetite..

550 a year for habitation and foncière is astoundingly cheap. To give a comparison ours combined is around 2 grand for 95msq, but that's in a large city centre. Each mairie decides on the taxe d'habitation, so the amounts can vary quite a bit from one commune to the next.

If you are buying in an apartment block, there will also be the charges for the copropriété to pay on a monthly or quarterly basis.

ocrider - the apartment we're getting is only 21sqm, so purely on a sqm basis (I know, not entirely relevant) the numbers aren't far out.

It's still a bargain compared to what I'm used to. It would cost 4-500 for habitation alone if it were here.

reasonably priced.

No chance in any of the well known resorts

A few years back 2 mates of mine bought a place in Samoens, between PdS and Flaine. I am sure that will have risen in value more than a big resort apartment would.

Some other friends have just bought a place in the Pyrenees. Flights are dirt cheap, the house was cheap, and its not full of people unlike the alps.

We had the same idea as the original poster and bought in Ste Foy 11 years ago, We usually ski at Christmas and Easter and have a summer holiday there most years. I am planning to "do a season" next winter before I am too old. It was bought mainly for winter sports but summer has been the revalation with cycling becoming an obsession after taking it up again to gain fitness. Holidays are not the same in your own place as I seem to spend most visits in Weldoms (DIY shop next to Super U) getting bits to maintain the property although saying that its probably the best purchase we have made!

I have owned a 1 bed 47sqm apartment in Chatel for 11 years. If it is an investment be warned it will not cover itself and property price will probably rise slower than a buy to let in the uk and give a worse return. If it's not an investment then this may not be a concern. My local taxes are in the region of €1100 a year and €1300 a year for service charges and insurance etc. I'll second the DIY on holiday post above.

Local taxes for a Bretton farmhouse; €1100 p/a. France isn't cheap. Mandatory insurance, food's quite expensive, services are quite expensive. It's fuel and grog that are a little less than the UK. The skiing is much better though 🙂

slovenia. Julian Alps.... around that area. good climate. fly into Ljubljana or 14~hr drive from Calais (or 4hr drive for me).

or South Tyrol. some spots are crazy busy in summer with bikers and hikers. very relaxed atmosphere... i really like it there.