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I've recently upgraded my grinder (Eureka Mignon Silenzio) and my usual choice of beans (Costco) now tastes burnt as they're being ground properly! I don't like the light roast/sickly trendy coffee that seems to be everywhere. Do you have any recommendations to take me back to the taste of coffee in Italy?
Quite like this:
https://edgcumbes.co.uk/products/dark-side-of-the-edge
Mostly on the Sussex Barn though, but that's not your brief.
Find a local roaster and support them.
100% avoid the supermarket coffee.
If you are north Manchester exchange coffee is very good IMO. https://exchangecoffee.co.uk/
There’s a premium app now?
🙂
I like the M&S Italian style beans, quite good value and taste good to me.
A dark espresso blend from a local roaster would probably suit you. It will have been roasted just a day or two before you buy it. Most supermarket beans don't even have a roast date on them, as it is often months ago. Just a ridiculously optimistic best before date. Freshly roasted beans ground just before you use them just taste miles better, whatever style you like.
The only caveat to that is that very fresh beans need to rest for a week or so if you're using them to make espresso, to allow some of the CO2 to off gas. Less of an issue for other brew methods. Local roaster, every time.
Thanks for m and s tip, 12 quid a kilo is worth a try.
I stocked up on lavazza red at booths last week, 10 quid a kg, but it s now 15 quid a kilo.
As above, go and speak to a local roaster. If you’re in Sheffield, I like Pollards very much as they’ve been around for decades and know their stuff.
In the SW - there's Wogan's in Bristol, and Redber in the SE.
If you just want to order online, Redber do most of their blends (including Cafe Italiano Espresso) in a variety of roasts from light to dark.
I like a medium/dark roast for the reasons you describe.
https://www.redber.co.uk/products/caffe-italiano-espresso-blend-coffee
I'm not massively fussy over coffee, I get the M&S Italian beans and it's nice enough for me.
I prefer the Colombian beans, but I'm a cheapskate, and they're 60% (?) more. What I should probably do for the sake of my caffeine intake is buy the colombian beans and reduce my intake so I'm not spending any more than I do at the moment
Happy Donkey sell Italian Beans, a good price also - prices at about £7.50 for 2 bags of beans.
As above, I have been buying Happy Donkey beans for 20 years including the Italian roast.
In the SW – there’s Wogan’s in Bristol, and Redber in the SE.
If you just want to order online, Redber do most of their blends (including Cafe Italiano Espresso) in a variety of roasts from light to dark.
I like a medium/dark roast for the reasons you describe.
https://www.redber.co.uk/products/caffe-italiano-espresso-blend-coffee
As a starting point I've ordered this, thanks!
I'm afraid the Rosso doesn't taste nice for me, I want a dark roast.
I'll try the M&S that's been recommended.
Are these the Happy Donkey beans, are they dark roast? https://www.happydonkey.co.uk/product/classic-italian-coffee-beans-2-x-250g-strong-espresso-blend/
Lavazza Rosso is a pretty good standard Italian style coffee that's available everywhere, and especially cheap at Costco. It's basically the hardtail of coffee beans.
No it doesn't have the complex flavors of the artisan stuff, and it's nowhere bougie enough for STW who will always recommend a local roasters beans with essence of this and hints of that, but it does the job for an everyday coffee.
I learned to make coffee as a teenager working in an Italian restaurant run by actual Italians and guess what they used...Lavazza Rosso.
cough
Qualita Rossa, (feminine declension of the adjective rosso) meaning "Red Label"
carry on.
(Oh, and Amazon, about a tenner a kilo)
Some of my favourite suppliers:
Exhale
Blue Bear Coffee
Ozone Coffee
Watch House
Exchange Coffee
Have a browse around and see what takes your liking.
I always recommend my local roaster: https://jamesgourmetcoffee.com - mostly because if you ask to talk to Peter (he of the Peter James over the door) he'll listen to what you want and make a number of great recommendations.
I warn you tho, it won't be a quick conversation 🙂
I order 4 kg at a time for free postage (use about 1 a month). The last is still fresh when opened (theres more difference in a kg from start to finish, even if kept airtight container)
best balance of quality/value I've found.
https://www.lovecoffee.co.uk/classico-2473.html
In my experience of espresso in Naples and Rome, burnt is nailing the brief?
Can't recommend Hundred House coffee enough. World class IMO. Special mention for Iron and Fire also. Both Shropshire based.
Yep the Happy Donkey are a wonderful dark roast.
see an extraction from Sunday.
timmycee
Free Member
In my experience of espresso in Naples and Rome, burnt is nailing the brief?
Yeah I was going to post earlier "what do you actually mean by Italian style?"
I've had fair bit of espresso in Italy and couldn't really describe anything specific about it aside from "it's not a light roast". Sometimes it's really really dark, even burnt tasting, other times medium. Sometimes it tastes quite Robusta-ish, othertimes not.
My memory of Florence was one of our Italian colleagues (name of Luciano of course) kicking off about how shite the coffee was we were served at the business place we hired and the cafe we kept taking breakfast in.
So he dragged us all off for a proper espresso, at some wee stand up place.
It tasted anything but burnt.
Another happy Happy Donkey customer though I'm more a Brazilian man than Italian... I've been buying from them for years and the coffee is always A1 - with an overtone of bonfire and yesterday's underpants... Yum 🙂
Roberts & Co roasters in Mawdsley Lancashire are ace, I've just ordered some single origin Sumatran, they do lots of Italian options, good value too, all ordered online in a couple of minutes.
If you're spending that much on your grinder, I'd make it worthwhile with some freshly roasted from your local roastery tbh.
Tk Maxx Italian 1kg for 10-15quid.
Everything I’ve ever ordered from Redber has been roasted within 6 days of delivery. Sometimes there’s a slight delay in dispatch 1-3days, but the beans arrive having been roasted 2-3days previously. They’re very fresh. By contrast, beans from my local have often been on display (counter) for a few days and thus open to the the air, they can go hard quite quickly, which can be a challenge for the grinder and more so for the taste. Cheaper? Sure. Chance to try? Yes, but fresher? Not always. A toaster with a good online trade will be roasting more regularly than a local who doesn’t or that doesn’t supply many local businesses anything other than a stock blend.
What you actually doing with the beans once they are ground. Am assuming espresso, but what machine? La Pavoni user here which is super fussy and whilst the beans and grind are an incredibly vital starting point (it basically goes into a Italian mardy huff if you get it wrong), there are a shed load of user errors still to make between there ans the end product.
Having said that, I'm no fan of a properly dark roast. It often just feels to be a convenient way to mask pretty average ingredients.
4kg at once? Either you’re drinking a shed load of coffe a day or the beans are pretty old by the time you’re done.
its vacuum packed in 1kg bags. I don’t notice any degradation of the sealed stuff over a couple of months. Once it’s opened it is fine for a month in a sealed container (it’s slightly less glossy by the end of the month but not enough to need to adjust the grind. If I’m on holiday for a few weeks and an open pack stretches longer sometimes I need to)
The price of the Murano Dark linked earlier by rogermoore seems very good - £14.50 per Kilogram. I think I'll gibe it a try, it would save me loads of money assuming it's as tasty as the reviews suggest.
its vacuum packed in 1kg bags. I don’t notice any degradation of the sealed stuff over a couple of months. Once it’s opened it is fine for a month in a sealed container (it’s slightly less glossy by the end of the month but not enough to need to adjust the grind. If I’m on holiday for a few weeks and an open pack stretches longer sometimes I need to)
The general consensus amongst coffee "experts" is that even (and especially) when vacuum sealed, beans lose up to 60% of their flavour vs fresh roast within 14 days and that part of this is because the vacuum pull partially leaches the oils from the beans. I'd agree with the flavour change (they become more bitter) and that they grind finer when older. I stopped buying in 1kg batches a little while ago due to this, but I only use around 500-700g a month.
I buy in 250 g bags, lob them in the freezer and then decant into a Kilner jar, then grind from that.
Hmmm. I buy 2x 1kg bags at a time, and bung 500g in the hopper per refill. Seems fine and not aware of a huge loss of flavour.
I think coffee experts are like hi fi buffs.
I should be noticing a huge difference between the last of my kg bags that’s been open for a month and a new batch. I don’t. But maybe I’m not that fussy - I prefer my coffee at home to almost anything I get when it’s out.
Italian blend from Rave?, although I prefer their Strong AF # 666 blend which is my usual order, the Signature blend is also nice.
What you actually doing with the beans once they are ground. Am assuming espresso, but what machine? La Pavoni user here which is super fussy and whilst the beans and grind are an incredibly vital starting point (it basically goes into a Italian mardy huff if you get it wrong), there are a shed load of user errors still to make between there ans the end product.
Having said that, I’m no fan of a properly dark roast. It often just feels to be a convenient way to mask pretty average ingredients.
I'm using an original Gaggia Classic (18yrs old) and usually making maciatos (with espresso obviously).
If we're going to do "RateMyGrinder" 🙂 then here's my new one. The Sage is five years old now and still going strong. But the grinder isn't great. I find I need to turn it nearly all the way down. This new one has a lot more control and I'm sure the resulting espresso is "better". But I couldn't really prove it.
I do quite enjoy the whole measuring/seeing if I've got the dose right/etc. I tend to stay away from the darker roasts so a 1:2 ratio seems to work best. Takes a couple of shots to dial it in (from a 250g bag).
It’s fair to say the faff on a Sunday morning is a distracting joy.
its all about puck preparation ??
There is an internet rabbit hole labelled ‘puckology’ that is both deep and quite, er, animated. Careful how you spell it ?
I like Sainsbury's Single Origin Guatemalan Espresso. £17.20 a kilo.
When I first got all bean/grinder/espresso nerdy, I was after dark roasts, like many of those mentioned in this thread. Now prefer a medium roast as I think it gives better and more flavours as an espresso and is a better base for milky coffees. I don't single dose so just run a hopper full of a medium roast bean and it's fine for everything. Trying to avoid the rabbit hole. It's coffee, not another hobby for me.
We travelled through Italy last year. Maybe unscientific but I felt the coffee changed as we went from north to south.
In Lucca it reminded me of the Happy Donkey Italian blend. In Rome it was much more to my liking, very similar to the Happy Donkey Brazilian (that has a nice touch of Robusta) which is what I drink at home.
And at the cafe we went to every morning (Pitstop, Via Gaeta) only €1 a cup!
We were in Molini (Ligurian Alps) which is a tiny town with three cafes. All did fantastic espressos for €1. I think it's still "the law" in Italy. Always got me ready for riding.
I only went single dose because that grinder had 33% off and the hopper version didn't!
cough
Qualita Rossa, (feminine declension of the adjective rosso) meaning “Red Label”
carry on.
My fault I think. I did question if I had the gender right but thought no one would be bothered!
I suggest you give them a try if you haven't. Then let us know if you like them.
Seriously, they are good. My favourite is Stupidly Strong but again I drink dark coffee Java style.
So far there are only two coffee brands/beans that I like. One of them from Co-Op (Italian or French) and the other is Cornish Coffee.
As I drink them cheap, I tend to buy 1kg bag from TK Maxx. I think I have tried too many brands there.
OP: Just a couple of things to bear in mind
The burs in your new grinder will take a little while to "season". I'm conscious of the derision that's coming my way - but it's a real thing. It can take a few kg for things to settle down, and the flavors become a bit more consistent. I had this down as bullshit when I first heard it - but when I got my new grinder, it was all over the place at first.
You've bought a flat burr grinder. The consensus is that conical grinders may be better at dark and medium/dark roasts - but bottom line.... it's going to taste different. Flat burr grinders are also harder to dial in than conical - they are less forgiving/have a much narrower window of "good".
You’ve bought a flat burr grinder. The consensus is that conical grinders may be better at dark and medium/dark roasts – but bottom line…. it’s going to taste different. Flat burr grinders are also harder to dial in than conical – they are less forgiving/have a much narrower window of “good”.
I'm not entirely sure that's true about flat Vs conical.
Conical burrs trend to produce more fines, therefore can give more 'depth' to an espresso... However that's down to the specific burr set.
E.g. an SSP MP burr won't give you much depth as it is designed to produce very uniform grind and very little fines. It's great for light roasts and filter.
Other flat burrs are designed specifically to generate more fines and give you more body.
The eureka in the picture is a zero isn't it? It has a small 55mm burr designed to generate fines. That will taste very similar to a niche zero with a conical.
That photo is Alex's setup, the exact grinder I have is similar (Eureka Mignon Silenzio).
Enjoying the pics above and the coffee chat. It's a beautiful sunny autumn day here and I've just sat down with my first espresso of the day. I thought I'd add a contribution to "rate my grinder". Happy nearly weekend fellow bean botherers, may it be a well caffeinated one.
A few kg for your grinder to settle down....?? Don't know about derision but F*** that. Is it really a thing? Honestly asking the question, cos that's a whole different rabbit warren. That would be a year drinking sh1te coffee for me. A hario hand grinder (fnarr fnarr) works just fine for me, and I can tweak the grind a couple of notches if a different bean grinds too fine or coarse, and I know after 1st cup if it needs tweaking
That photo is Alex’s setup, the exact grinder I have is similar (Eureka Mignon Silenzio).
Not had that grinder long. It is - unsurprisingly - significantly 'better' than the in built sage one. In terms of consistency/ability to really dial in the grind you want/noise! I'm still experimenting to try and hit the 1:2 ratio all the time. but it's an interesting experience (not hobby, I have too many of those) and my espressos look and taste fantastic.
Like I say I won't be taking questions on if it's £300 more fantastic than the stop I had before 🙂
The eureka in the picture is a zero isn’t it?
It is. I had a chat with the chap from Clumsy Goat before I bought it, and my Coffee fiend Peter down at James Coffee and they both recommended this grinder for the type of (lighter) beans I prefer.
Anyway I feel I've taken this thread away from @solamanda original question! Hope you enjoy at least one of the new roasts you're trying.
If we are posting pictures... 
A few kg for your grinder to settle down….?? Don’t know about derision but F*** that. Is it really a thing?
Some people routinely buy a few kilos of the cheapest beans they can find to churn through and then bin, to 'season' new burrs.
I am not one of those people! If you are, you are so far down the rabbit hole and chasing such miniscule diminishing returns I wonder if you have forgotten how to just enjoy your coffee without obsessing.
@jaketurbo a Decent? You've got it bad! Incurable probably. Are you into pressure and temperature profiling and all that gubbins? What's the lever machine? Nice set up, I'm a little jealous!
Definitely incurable...
The lever is a flair 58, I don't use it much but levers can produce some great thick shots with medium roasts.
I do a mixture of light roasts and also filter coffees using the decent... Which flow and also temperature control during the shot is essential for.
A few kg for your grinder to settle down….?? Don’t know about derision but F*** that. Is it really a thing? Honestly asking the question, cos that’s a whole different rabbit warren
See the recent thread regarding HI-FI and cable burn in, I imagine some folk imagine coffee grinders need burned in also
😉
Talking of rabbit holes this looks good value..........
@susepic I can't see a price? Not sure I'd go that crazy for a conical burr non-portable hand grinder, although it does look lovely.
Profitec Go. The grinder is a DF64 Gen 2.
Back to the OP, I bought a 1kg bag of Italian packaged beans from TK Maxx, they've got the same horrible taste as most of the coffee I've had when in Italy (or Europe in general tbh). So if you want authentic Italian flavour I'd suggest that, but if you want nice coffee then I wouldn't!
Just for your coffee tasting adventure, if you wish to buy coffee beans at TK Maxx you should try the followings:
1. Medium roast French (100% small Arabica beans) - L'Amateur Cafe £12,99 per 1kg bag (this is good surprisingly and you can actually taste the difference)
2. Dark roast Italian (mixed Robasta & Arabica I guess) - Miguel (side of the bag has won 2 awards) £12.99 per 1kg bag (this is also good but Not Java good of course)
Both are decent coffee while other Italian brands are roughly the same taste (tried too many that I cannot remember them all)
Nice decent coffee machine and set up.
I think you are incurable now with touch screen coffee machine. LOL!
If we're doing photos... QuickMill Silvano and Eureka Mignon. 10 years old now. Have replaced the pump once and some internal piping (and thread locked the switches which stopped them coming loose). I've been wondering how much longer it will run before it needs a more major rebuild - most of these Italian machines are incredibly simple and all built with standard parts so feel like it will always be repairable (I wonder how much the same is true of the Sage?)
Steam is fine for a small jug (two cups) but would struggle with larger so maybe someday a small footprint dual boiler might replace this when something breaks. Would be nice to have something plumbed in too but that would mean drilling a hole in the worktop (or kitchen cupboard...hmm)
QuickMill Silvano and Eureka Mignon.
Nice. Should be good for another decade at least with some TLC and probably a lot longer? My Profitec Go is German, but the pump and other bits are Italian and probably similar to those in lots of Italian machines, so I'm hoping if it ever breaks, fixing it won't be an issue. I'm using good water and keeping it clean so hopefully it will be a long time before I find out.
I'm struggling to think the TK Maxx supply chain is geared up for providing freshly roasted beans, but I might be wrong?
This thread has me thinking of getting a Sage Bambino. So, is there lots of faff to it with cleaning etc? Other than tamping the coffee and wiping the frothier, I’d like it to be as close to the convenience of the Nespresso machine it’d replace.
I’m struggling to think the TK Maxx supply chain is geared up for providing freshly roasted beans, but I might be wrong?
I don't think you are. Some people are OK with long shelf life, commodity coffee rather than freshly roasted. Fine if you are, not for me though.