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What it says really... Looking to do some work in the loft and trying to source celotex and vapour membrane. Where's the best place? Travis Perkins? Insulation.com? Any thoughts?
How much time and effort are you willing to put in? I got mine from ebay and facebook. All local so easy to collect, leftovers from jobs or cancelled projects. I did get lucky and pick up a couple of reasonable sized job lots.
Kingspan Seconds here
https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/
Intriguing. And I am quite tight, so seconds appeals to me. Might need to start by estimating how much I need... £500 minimum order.
For vapour barrier I got mine from screwfix or tool station. For Cellotex I found the best prices were from a local small independent builders merchant. It depends how much you need but often the Delivery charge makes up a significant part of the cost if ordering from outside your local area.
Also worth remembering it takes up quite a lot of space to store and is easily damaged. Again the local builders merchant who deliver for free meant I could order it in 2 batches.
Have you considered the utter ballache celotex will be in a loft space?
joshvegas does have a point, whilst not directly the same i used th foil on my new build, it looks like a space ship before you put anything over it; much cheaper and works as good and easier to use.
Yep. People think that it's an easy job to fit it and, although it is physically easy, it takes a lot of time and effort to do properly.
You need to have a very good reason to do it as fitting it from within a limited space will be quite horrible!
How much time and effort are you willing to put in? I got mine from ebay and facebook. All local so easy to collect, leftovers from jobs or cancelled projects. I did get lucky and pick up a couple of reasonable sized job lots.
I did this when I was doing my garage a couple of years ago. If you're going to cut down boars to fit between joist anyway, the fact that it's offcuts doesn't make a lot of difference, and saves waste.
But like a lot of things, the market seems to have gone nuts. I remember buying 2 full boards of 5mm and some offcuts for I think £15 just before the first lockdown. Now people are selling (or trying to at least) sell half a board for £20.
Worth keeping an eye out on where people are having building work done (which seemed to be every other house during the summer) as builders often skip loads as it's not worth their time trying to be economical with it.
Best way I found of cutting it: I ground the teeth off an old jack saw that was scrap anyway with a flap disc on the angle grinder to give a smooth sharp-ish edge. Goes through it like butter and creates next to no dust.
Intriguing. And I am quite tight, so seconds appeals to me. Might need to start by estimating how much I need… £500 minimum order.
If you turn up with van or trailer they will sell you less.
How will you get celotex through your loft hatch? It usually comes in large sheets so you'd need to measure the size required in the loft then cut it outside the loft space and carry each piece back up then make adjustments. It's not the right product, assuming you're putting it above your upstairs ceiling and not between the rafters. You should be using mineral wool like rockwool or similar and laying it between the joists then a second layer across and above the joists.
@Sui - Which brand did you go with? Is it the only insulation in that room?
the stuff we used is a mix (it was due to availbility)
original plan - was a "duet" on the house (it's a BIG roof) using the Superfoil brand (there are others, but these had been passed by building control)
It was supposed to be SF19BB which is the "external" breather membrane (replaces normal felt), and then inside SF40. The SF 40 when we went to order it was out of stock (i needed quite a bit), so spoke to the makers and building control and we ageed that it would then be
SF19BB outside, in between rafters - 100mm Knauf Earthwool Acoustic, and then internally SF19 - this gave us the same UValue as the SF19BB+SF40 combo to meet new build regs.
I still think putting some earthwool type inbtween rafters is good, even if you do get the SF40.
Try ainsworth developments/ainsworth-insulation.co.uk - failing that insulation superstore is pretty good on most things
just to add, at the time (Aug 2018) it worked out abotu £24/sqm using foil vs around £40 using foam (once all things considered). Appreciate all prices are probably twice that now.
I found online places were cheaper than all my local builders merchants when I bought a load (68 sheets). I used two different sheet types and ordered each from the cheapest place.
Turned up on an artic.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8344/8251283307_2738676f89.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8344/8251283307_2738676f89.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dz8Z4i ]Celotex GA4100 arriving[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8062/8251282511_45da71c887.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8062/8251282511_45da71c887.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dz8YPz ]1st shipment of Celotex (38/68 sheets)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8063/8261465630_ce9edcde95.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8063/8261465630_ce9edcde95.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dA3aUA ]Plaster Board backed Celotex (PB4050) arriving - two palletes worth![/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
Takes up a lot of space:
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8350/8266974814_4f295b6016.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8350/8266974814_4f295b6016.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dAwpAw ]30 sheets of Celotex PB4050[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
Think we had another load stored in the Dining room...
Sorry, should really have begun at the beginning...
We've got a big trussed rafter roof space. I'm considering making a smaller, warm storage space up there. This would need insulating between the roof trusses and across the top. I would think by fixing battens between the trusses and then celotex and membrane. So there's a cold space outside it and a warm space within. Rigid celotex seems the thing and between the trusses *should* fit through the roof hatch on the diagonal.
Is this a crazy plan? I'd really like some more dry warmish storage and it's a big roof space.
I love the facial expression on the person in the second picture.
'Are you sure we NEED this much?'
😂
I would have concerns that you'd be inhibiting good ventilation from the eaves at one side of the roof space to the other. Do you have a breathable membrane currently installed under the tiles/slated or is it non breathable?
Do you really need it to be a warm storage space, it's a bit of work for what it is and roof spaces shouldn't be damp enough to cause damage to most things stored in crates.
Have you considered the utter ballache celotex will be in a loft space?
You need to have a very good reason to do it as fitting it from within a limited space will be quite horrible!
As someone that has insulated a 9m2 lean-to extension and now insulating the converted garage above our utility of similar size, I fully concur with this. I'm playing the long game and chipping away at it.
It does have benefits though. Installed correctly, it is as efficient an insulator as double the same thickness of blown fibre insulation, which is useful for max efficiency per depth in tight eaves and where you want to maximise storage. Also, unlike blown fibre, wee beasties dont like to nest or spend time in it. Which is also a factor in my garage roof.
Nasty inhalable dust if you cut with a toothed blade too - I'd recommend some respiratory protection if you go that route. Personally I find a sharp blade better, but it does blunt off edges quickly.
What you are making there is a worse storage. Cool and we'll ventilated is what you want. Warm and unventilated gets you mould.
What you are making there is a worse storage. Cool and we’ll ventilated is what you want. Warm and unventilated gets you mould.
But presumably if I ventilated it, I could get warm and well ventilated, and that would be even better?
You'll need to thoroughly insulate the underside of the roof unless you want the police helicopters thermal imaging to pick up what you're doing - wink!
Why do you want it to be 'warm'?
At the moment, fabric things like rucksacks, wetsuits etc go mouldy. I'm thinking warm = less damp. I could put them all in crates but then it's more awkward to get ready access to things.
(I realise it's not as simple as that; warm air holds moisture etc. So it would have to be insulated and have no cold spots and be ventilated)
why not store the clothing in vac sealed bags?
I might be more inclined to try and make the loft space more ventilated and colder by insulating the loft floor which would also help to keep the inhabited part of the house warmer. The reason for this is it'd reduce warm air coming through from the house and mixing with cooler air - which causes condensation.
The challenge with your plan is that warm air is less dense than cool air, and humid air is less dense than dry air - so if you membrane and insulate a space you'll probably end up trapping in humidity rising up from the house.
But if you do want to execute your plan then bear in mind most PIR sheets have aluminum foil on both sides, if you use aluminium tape on the joints then that will provide a vapour barrier, no need for a separate plastic membrane. You may find multi-foil rolls easier to work with than getting large sheets of PIR into the roofspace.
There are fans systems that have a heat exchanger if you wanted to ventilate a warm space, but then you have ongoing energy costs e.g. Heat recovery fan that fits in wall
At the moment, fabric things like rucksacks, wetsuits etc go mouldy.
Cheapest fix is to increase the ventilation. My old loft was well ventilated well insulated for the ceilings and absolutely no issues with damp
I have just boarded and insulated my garage, so have bought a fair bit of 12mm ply and 50mm Kingspan. All I can say is prices have rocketed this year !!!