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Another Diddy
"in 2019 he was was suspended by the SNP for using anti-Semitic language on social media."
so is ALBA going to be the tartan tories as so far they all appear to be from the right of the party and Socially conservative.
what I don't understand is why a person elected under whatever banner be it SNP, Labour, Tory can suddenly jump ship and not have to let the local electorate decide if that's what they want. Because they are there to serve those who voted for them, many will vote for the party rather than the person.
If you change party allegiance there should be another by election.
Its because you vote for an individual not a party
i would like to make changing parties included in the reasons for a recall petition but this has always been the case
Oh dear
THOUSANDS of people have had their data leaked by Alex Salmond’s new party just hours after it launched – which could cost them as much as £17 million.
The Herald on Sunday can reveal that the names of more than 4,000 people who have signed up to attend Alba Party events were visible to the public due to a fault in the party’s website.
Among them appear to be members of the SNP’s ruling body.
From the herald
Its because you vote for an individual not a party
Not sure about that, I've voted for some proper bellends before rather than the other political parties.
But the tick on the ballot paper goes against a named person. Its not like a closed list election where you vote for a party.
No disagree on that if you are a die hard Tory you're not gonna vote for the labour person because they seem nice
It's all about party politics
You reason for voting for a person may be their party affiliation but you still vote for an individual
Salmond is doing the SNP a favour … it’s like a purge of their most questionable MPs, voluntarily.
Is Salmond preparing a party for right and centre right voters post independence? I don’t see the Conservatives taking that role.
But the tick on the ballot paper goes against a named person. Its not like a closed list election where you vote for a party.,
even at Holyrood on the regional list it doesn't work like that does it? Andy Whightman is still an MSP having quite the greens.
It feels like there should be some mechanism, but not necessarily automatic - if someone wants to take a moral stand and quit the party then there's a major disincentive if you are likely to lose your seat; similarly, it would be a very big stick for parties to wave at people who won't play their games.
Holyrood lists you still vote for individuals IIRC Or is that the local elections?
The thing that'll hurt the SNP most is that nobody really knows for sure who is Team Nicola and who is Team Alex, yes you have the obvious ones, it'll just bring more uncertainty.
The sad thing is that the SNP have been a bit lost in the last few years, losing the referendum hurt, it caused the Salmond thing and the fallout is now being seen, after stewing for a long time, guessing the same thing will manifest with a lot of the voters and party campaigners, which is a shame really, as there was real promise this time round, but Salmond wasn't one for giving up power easily.
There are real issues in the SNP over concentration of power, control freakery and diddies infiltrating it for their own ends. None of which is solved by this
He is not corrupt.
I think thats a bit of a stretch
He might be corrupt... But lets say, his motivations here probably aren't corruption, it's all about self-publicising and self-importance.
Losing the referendum did not cause the Salmond thing. The Salmond thing caused the Salmond thing!
Indeed so far as I can see most if not all the allegations if that's what the phrase "salmond thing" refers to allegedly happened before the referendum.
When i say the Salmond thing i meant it in regards to losing the referendum meant he effectively walked the plank, his shot at being the president of scotland and place in history gone for the foreseeable, after that it's been a slow burner until now, but having created a whole new party, at a time like this, for me, shows what kind of man he is.
Who knows though, maybe this whole Alba thing will be good for the SNP, give them a bit of impetus and renewed momentum, they've not had a real threat north of the border for a long time, and been a bit broad spectrum in terms of their political compass.
Tommy Sheridan has joined! He thinks ALBA will be progressive
Alba is supported by Wings over Scotland who has got steadily more unhinged to the point that if you offer any support for Sturgeon he bans you from his facebook page. Also supported by Craig Murray that well known conspiracy nut. Both post pieces on the net full of obvious falsehoods.
A few more failed SNP politicians have joined - all seeing the end of their careers in the SNP so join this rag tag bunch instead
Judge a man by the company he keeps.
Tommy Sheridan has joined!
😂
are we watching some sort of reality tv documentary, where the producers throw in new names every so often to bolster the ratings just so can watch the car crash ending?
Tommy Sheridan has joined!
Is having been a High Court defendant a requirement for joining Alba?
OMG
Cllr McAllister said: "I am delighted to join the Alba Party. As a Councillor, and the former SNP National Women’s Convener, I’m really looking forward to working with my colleagues in the Alba Party to ensure women’s rights are front and centre of the new Scottish Parliament I hope to be a member of."
to ensure women’s rights are front and centre
This is just a dig at the trans debate amongst the SNP
It is. There’s a Venn diagram of three issues that seems to almost form one neat circle:
- push for UDI before another referendum
- push back against rights for trans people
- ongoing personal admiration of Salmond despite everything
The trans rights issue is not clear cut in my view - which is why the GRA has not been put into law yet as it has obvious flaws but is being pushed hard by a rather nasty bunch ( all IMO of course)
the main problem with the GRA as originally formulated is that it has no protection for women only safe spaces
Judge a man by the company he keeps.
Nicola and Alex worked, campaigned, socialized and led the SNP together for 20+ years. That she claims she only discovered he was behaving inappropriately when the formal investigation started when she was FM is frankly implausible
Its rather amusing how little support Salmond is getting even on pro independence social media - even those pages who are supporting him people are showing they understand that ALBA is going to reduce the amount of pro independence MSPs by splitting the vote
I would also like to know who is funding ALBA
And now racist, anti vaxer Alex Arthur is up as a candidate.
Despite having a name like a X Factor winner, it turns out he used to be a boxer. He also uses Twitter to describe homeless Romanians as "Big juicy over fed pigs", offer thoughtful insights such as suggesting to someone with HIV that they should have worn a condom and liking a post that said, eloquently, "**** Gypsies".
Classy
He has also used the I'm not racist, some of my friends are black defence with a tweet recently saying "I actually have Romanian friends"
Its okay though as he has released a statement saying that he is not racist and we have all misinterpreted him.
Carry on.
“in 2019 he was was suspended by the SNP for using anti-Semitic language on social media.”
so is ALBA going to be the tartan tories as so far they all appear to be from the right of the party and Socially conservative.
I would argue it makes ALBA appear more from the left, women's rights/ trans debate also cuts through the left
Holyrood lists you still vote for individuals IIRC Or is that the local elections?
You vote for a party, which lists the names. If one of those names dies/resigns as an MP the next name is automatically appointed (not sure what happens if there are no more names).
Losing the referendum did not cause the Salmond thing. The Salmond thing caused the Salmond thing!
Indeed - some might even say that Salmond was the thing that lost them the referendum!
ALBA is going to reduce the amount of pro independence MSPs by splitting the vote
Is it? If they are only standing in the regional lists then the number of SNP local constituency MPS will be unaffected. I suspect most people who buy into the "spread two votes for independence" logic are already voting SNP/Green - I doubt that many people who pop a cross beside "Green" are immediately swayed that "Alba" is a better choice.
Obviously, at Holyrood it could (often does) come down to one or two MSPs so it might matter but I'm doubtful it will make that much difference in the mix of all the different voting combinations and reasons ("I hate Sturgeon", "I hate Salmond", "Green party are pointless", "anyone but a tory", "Green party if it hadn't been for trans/womens rights", "Alba if it hadn't been for womens/trans rights", "Alba if Tommy Sheridan wasn't on the list", "SNP both votes if it wasn't pointless", "SNP both votes because the #saidSo", "Maybe its time to give Sarwar a go" etc...) - especially given that I don't see them getting more than ~5% of the list vote unless he does some shenanigans like "Alex Salmond for Independence" again - which the Electoral Commission should really but a stop to (and for the others doing the same stuff)...
I've never understood why a party didn't just make a formal distinction between say, "Labour Local" and "Regional Labour" to maximise their vote, with a pre-agreed coalition. It would be gaming the system but not sure if there is some technical barrier.
Nicola and Alex worked, campaigned, socialized and led the SNP together for 20+ years. That she claims she only discovered he was behaving inappropriately when the formal investigation started when she was FM is frankly implausible
Is that what she claimed - I'm not sitting through 8 hours of witness testimony again, but I don't think she said that. In fact I'm sure she said she heard murmurings previously but never saw anything herself. The thing is, sexual predators are rarely the sort of people to do so in front of other people who would disapprove of their behaviour.
I would argue it makes ALBA appear more from the left, women’s rights/ trans debate also cuts through the left
I don't think the interplay between trans-rights and women rights is really a "left" / "right" issue.
Its rather amusing how little support Salmond is getting even on pro independence social media – even those pages who are supporting him people are showing they understand that ALBA is going to reduce the amount of pro independence MSPs by splitting the vote
I think the most like thing is swapping Green list MEPs for Alba MSPs. John Curtice guessed that Alba might get 7% of the vote. I did the numbers for the West Region assuming that half Alba support was former Greens and half former MSP. On that basis Ross Greer (Green) loses his seat to Alba. A secondary effect is that the SNP have even less chance of picking up a list MSP in the West Region.
Is it? If they are only standing in the regional lists then the number of SNP local constituency MPS will be unaffected. I suspect most people who buy into the “spread two votes for independence” logic are already voting SNP/Green – I doubt that many people who pop a cross beside “Green” are immediately swayed that “Alba” is a better choice.
At the moment greens get around 9% of the list vote. If alba splits that then neither greens nor alba will get any list seats. 5% threshold
A lot of the green vote is a pro independence vote - maybe half? who knows
Its certainly more than possible in my view that they will take enough votes from the greens to lose them representatives without gaining enough votes to get enough representatives themselves to make up for the damage to the greens
Hopefuly they do not get enough votes to get any representation but its certainly possible and even likely IMO that splitting the pro independence list vote 3 ways will be enough reduce the total number of pro independence msps
TJ, I'm not convinced that those people who have been voting SNP/Green for the last few elections are going to hop on an SNP/Alba card. They will tempt some SNP/SNP people to SNP/Alba almost as a protest vote for the SNP but I like to think that people who voted SNP/Green in the past have a level of voting sophistication that's not swayed by Eck.
Does anyone know what the actual SNP/SNP and SNP/Green and SNP/Other split is anyway? I have a suspicion that the typical voter ticks both boxes the same anyway, and doesn't really understand the system.
Poly - as I remember the snp list vote is around 5% lower than their constituency vote - so it looks as if that 5% go to greens. Perhaps simplistic. Its clear from the folk I know and what I see on social media that second vote green for independence is a strong tendency
You are right in that some just tick both boxes the same but its also clear that a significant % do understand the system
Lib dem, tory and labour voters tick both boxes as they need list votes to get MSPs. Most snp do the same. You are right in that Salmond is going after the SNP voters who understand the system and who currently vote green
Wiki has good date on the voting %
You vote for a party, which lists the names. If one of those names dies/resigns as an MP the next name is automatically appointed
No you don't and no they don't. If you voted for a party then a change of allegiance would trigger a by-election.
A by-election is held when a seat becomes vacant. This can happen when an MP:
resigns or dies
is declared bankrupt
is unable to carry out their duties due to mental illness
is convicted of a serious criminal offence.A by-election does not have to take place if an MP changes political party.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/by-elections/
The only instance that you voted for a party and not a candidate was the Closed Party System used for electing MEPs.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/voting-systems/
@tjagain is entirely correct.
Thats the full list of candiatedes out
it includes this diddy
Ms Ahmed-Sheikh
In 2019, she was fined £3,000 after being found guilty of professional misconduct during her time as a partner at a law firm by a tribunal.
Ms Ahmed-Sheik stood for the Scottish Tories at the 1999 Holyrood election.
So a ex snp party hopping tory with a history of professional misconduct. she will fit right in
it really is a rag tag bunch
Just for fun I'll predict 6 seats for Alba. I think he will get enough transfers from the Greens and SNP for a few seats. Might miss out in South Scotland where I think the SNP already get, from memory, two list seats.
On the previous question of Venn diagram nationalist and DM reader overlap, do you honestly believe there is no right wing interest in independence? Right now the options are left(ish) and far left green, he's just exploiting a gap in the market. Niche for sure but that's the advantage of running list. I wouldn't put money on them not getting seats, I don't think the Greens are as popular as people would like to believe.
And since when did having a rag tag bunch stop anybody? Works well elsewhere...
Unfortunately I think Alba will do far better than those on this forum expect.
So a ex snp party hopping tory with a history of professional misconduct. she will fit right in
it really is a rag tag bunch
Looking at the recent exits from the SNP for various sexual or financial or covid idiocy (suspension still in force) you'd argue the selection was similar to people already in office
My bet is they cost the greens more seats than alba gains
Greens have 5 right now and predicted to get 9 before the intervention of Alba. MY prediction is 3 or 4 alba all at the expense of the greens
I am seeing very little support for Alba on social media and the rag tag bunch of failed SNP politicians, sexual predators and racists are not really attractive.
On the previous question of Venn diagram nationalist and DM reader overlap, do you honestly believe there is no right wing interest in independence?
not really no. I do not rthink there is a gap for a pro independence right wing party and anyway ALBA is promising to be more progressive than the SNP
I think the quality of the candidates shows a lot - its a bunch of political chancers and entryists with no agenda apart from " gies a job"
Did anyone hear him on Radio 4 this morning? Not comfortable listening, he really is an arrogant, sleazy old man. Totally unrepentant and refused to engage in any challenge to his behaviour.
He was asked why his defence QC described him as a sex pest, he denied that happened and accused the BBC of dodgy reporting. The sex pest comment was recorded and is on tape!
he really is an arrogant, sleazy old man
Yep. All that.
I am seeing very little support for Alba on social media and the rag tag bunch of failed SNP politicians, sexual predators and racists are not really attractive.
The calculation will be that the people who will vote for him aren't really on social media as they will be older and remember Salmond in his pomp(osity)
I think the quality of the candidates shows a lot – its a bunch of political chancers and entryists with no agenda apart from ” gies a job”
Something all parties seem to suffer from including the SNP
I've heard a few folk saying they'll vote for Alba in the list.
They seem to be looking at it as a way to get a move more towards independence. Some folks like Salmond, others are willing to hold their nose to get independence done "play the ball, not the man" etc
tjagain
Full Member
My bet is they cost the greens more seats than alba gainsGreens have 5 right now and predicted to get 9 before the intervention of Alba. MY prediction is 3 or 4 alba all at the expense of the greens
I am seeing very little support for Alba on social media and the rag tag bunch of failed SNP politicians, sexual predators and racists are not really attractive.
I'm not really sure those voting for the greens are going to suddenly become right wing and switch to Alba, but i do think a fair few SNP voters would.
The reality is that the SNP now have competition for the independent vote, and with a more right of centre Alba party, you can see a fair few shifting over, which might help other parties more in marginal areas.
tjagain
Full MemberI am seeing very little support for Alba on social media
Then you're looking in the wrong places. There was an article from that fine publication the P&J and I was shocked to see the amount of folk willing to vote for them in the comments. I had to scroll on past... Facebook will only feed you views that you tend to agree with.
Something all parties seem to suffer from including the SNP
finally BnD says something I can agree with! All sorts of people have ended up as MSP/MPs who never actually expected to win, and who's party never expected them to win.
A former colleague to a month off to stand/campaign for Plaid Cymru a few years ago - I had a frank discussion with him about what would happen if he won (he'd have made a horrendous MP) and it was unthinkable to him that by standing he might actually get elected. Must have been a few SNP candidates like that in the landslides.
I am also seeing a real mixed bag on social media plenty of support for ALBA some of which does not equate with unequivocal support for Alex Salmond. Also some people supporting both votes SNP but not happy with internal party democracy. For me I am not a follower of Alex or Nicola I am an independence supporter first and foremost. An SNP member secondto that by a long way. The important thing in this election is to maximise the vote share for the SNP and all indy parties, at hopefully above 50% and therefore win more seats that is looking more tricky than ever at this point.
not really no. I do not rthink there is a gap for a pro independence right wing party and anyway ALBA is promising to be more progressive than the SNP
Then you're rather naive I'm afraid. There is probably a(n admittedly) small core of conservative and lib voters as well as the mentioned SNP set that would vote that way. When you see some of the eejits the Greens allow to stand it's not hard to dismiss them as sub-par community councillors trying to play with the big boys (in my case the prospective wasn't even on the council, just an ignorant loudmouth). I'm not suggesting this lot are much better but at least have parliamentary and real world experience behind them.
I’m not really sure those voting for the greens are going to suddenly become right wing and switch to Alba, but i do think a fair few SNP voters would.
Depends on what their motivation is, are they voting for the Greens or just voting tactically? If Alba is more aligned with their compass then why wouldn't they shift?
They’re playing the same trick that Worked for Trump and Boris and Brexit. A 3 word slogan that glosses over any actual policy content and appeals to the people who don’t give a shit about politics.
Drain the Swamp
Make America Great Again
Get Brexit Done
Supermajority for Independence
It’ll work. No doubt.
Then you’re looking in the wrong places. There was an article from that fine publication the P&J and I was shocked to see the amount of folk willing to vote for them in the comments. I had to scroll on past… Facebook will only feed you views that you tend to agree with.
I looked for 3 separate pro independence pages that I do not normally see. One was promoting Alba 2 were neutral- all had around the same ratio - 10:1 in the comments against Salmond
My parents are a bit conservative though dislike Tory party. Voted Brexit and want Scottish independence but not EU membership.
There's no party for them. They think SNP are too leftwing...
They might go for Alba?
swavis
Full MemberFacebook will only feed you views that you tend to agree with.
Not quite. Facebook feeds you views that you interact with. I get sent just about every paid-for anti-SNP hack job from inexplicable little groups that somehow have money to pay for facebook ads, "Yes I am totally an independent journalist paying my own money to put out political ads, why do you ask?" because I tend to respond, and so Facebook's algorithms feed me more.
I just had a look at Salmonds facebook page. Obviously more supporters on there but he is still getting pelters and his supporters are the minority even there ( from a quick glance)
the only pro independence page i see a majority supporting Salmond and Alba is Wings over Scotland - and that is because he blocks anyone who dissents and who supports Sturgeon
Facebook feeds you views that you interact with.
'cos I am friends with Northwind I then also get these same pages on my feed when he comments - and also all Douglas Ross page for the same reasons .
They’re playing the same trick that Worked for Trump and Boris and Brexit. A 3 word slogan that glosses over any actual policy content and appeals to the people who don’t give a shit about politics.
Drain the Swamp
Make America Great Again
Get Brexit Done
Supermajority for IndependenceIt’ll work. No doubt.
Every single word of that^^
You think that people would learn, but they won't.
A bigger bunch of absolute roasters would be hard to find, don’t be surprised if they have Fahrage as a guest speaker.
Not quite. Facebook feeds you views that you interact with.
Yes, you are correct. I think I don't see it as I don't tend to interact with them and have pretty much unfollowed all the political pages that I once did. Life is too negative with all that nonsense.
Moar bikepacking, campervan, music and beer in the sunset posts for me from now on 😎
Alba polling at 3% so far, probably rise, but that's not enough to get any seats
just enough to stop greens assuming ( as I think will happen) they take votes from green as IMO a lot of the green vote is a tactical pro independence vote
A bigger bunch of absolute roasters would be hard to find, don’t be surprised if they have Fahrage as a guest speaker.
Having Farage speak up for Scexit might be part of a complex and nuanced strategy, arguably the same if he speaks up for the Union, the negative association that he brings could play either way
Did anyone hear him on Radio 4 this morning? Not comfortable listening, he really is an arrogant, sleazy old man. Totally unrepentant and refused to engage in any challenge to his behaviour.
You're expecting decent, moral behaviour? Where have you been for the last 10 years? You have spotted who the prime minister is?
Alba polling at 3% so far, probably rise, but that’s not enough to get any seats
The threat, however small it is currently perceived to be, may be enough to force other political party's to change direction or change completely...its not like we haven't seen a party start from nothing in 1992 and by 2016 force a mainstream party to react, then to take over the mainstream party in 2019.
tjagain
Full Memberjust enough to stop greens assuming ( as I think will happen) they take votes from green as IMO a lot of the green vote is a tactical pro independence vote
Aye, does seem like they'll face the most threat in terms of change of seats/power. They deserve better
Not looking good for him
first poll including alba has them winning no seats, net approval rating -61! and that is after all the publicity he has had for free the last couple of weeks
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/03/alex-salmond-alba-party-prospects-holyrood
He was asked why his defence QC described him as a sex pest, he denied that happened and accused the BBC of dodgy reporting. The sex pest comment was recorded and is on tape!
Got a link? The only quote I remember was his QC on the train describing him as an "arsehole" and "objectionable bully" but seems to be saying not sexual.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5438216/alex-salmond-gordon-jackson-video/
Whether people will vote for someone whose own lawyer thinks is a bullying arsehole is another question
Are you prepared to condemn his admitted behaviour yet scotroutes?
first poll including alba has them winning no seats
he is actually making a pro independence majority harder to get.
If, as seems to be the case, Salmond is positioning himself as the Caledonian version of Farage, what's the Scottish culinary equivalent of gammon?
Are you prepared to condemn his admitted behaviour yet scotroutes?
If, as seems to be the case, Salmond is positioning himself as the Caledonian version of Farage, what’s the Scottish culinary equivalent of gammon?
Deep fried pizza?
culinary equivalent of gammon?
Red pudding
Red pudding
What a load of baloney.
Smoked Salmond obvs