Where are you from , no really from

It was a very clumsy question at best.

Age shouldn't give you a pass for being a dick and/or racist (in this case both)

I await the anti woke mob monstering Folani and the charity she works for (especially as it lends credence to Markle's claims about the royals and she is despised by the racists)

Age shouldn’t give you a pass for being a dick and/or racist (in this case both)

This. Particularly in public life and for an organisation with policies and training on these things.

It was a very clumsy question at best.

Not really one question...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63810468

Here is the full conversation, as recounted by Ms Fulani:

Lady SH: Where are you from?

Me: Sistah Space.

SH: No, where do you come from?

Me: We're based in Hackney.

SH: No, what part of Africa are you from?

Me: I don't know, they didn't leave any records.

SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?

Me: Here, the UK.

SH: No, but what nationality are you?

Me: I am born here and am British.

SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?

Me: 'My people', lady, what is this?

SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you're from. When did you first come here?

Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when...

SH: Oh, I knew we'd get there in the end, you're Caribbean!

Me: No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

SH: Oh so you're from...

She didn't commit the cardinal sin though. Hearing someone with a 'northern' accent and asking them if they're from Lancashire when they're from Yorkshire, or vice versa 😉

She didn’t commit the cardinal sin though. Hearing someone with a ‘northern’ accent and asking them if they’re from Lancashire when they’re from Yorkshire, or vice versa

Christ, that would have been horrific. Imagine the fallout!

I had only seen the headlines, that transcript is far far worse than i had imagined.

Not just the racism borne from ignorance that I had imagined, but so much arrogance and self entitled snobbish superiority.

She didn’t commit the cardinal sin though. Hearing someone with a ‘northern’ accent and asking them if they’re from Lancashire when they’re from Yorkshire, or vice versa 😉

The royals* literally had a war over this.

*before someone else had a war with them over something else, the Scottish had a whipround with the French to do a takeover, marched as far as Derby, decided it wasn't worth it as anyone who's stopped at Donnington services can sympathize, we had a republic for a bit, and eventually decided it was all a bit of a face and we'd just be happier as Germans.

I await the anti woke mob monstering Folani and the charity she works for (especially as it lends credence to Markle’s claims about the royals and she is despised by the racists)

I imagine the royals themselves are fairly nice as individuals, you'd have to be if your day job is to smile and nod with the public on camera. Equally I imagine anyone who want's to be hanger on in the "royal household" is entirely possible to be the worst examples of classist, snobbish, Conservatives with a capital C (because why else would you).

This really is context.
My wife is black British born in Nottingham. The first time I introduced them, my Mum (75 at the time living in the most remote part of Devon) asked her the very same question 20 odd years ago. But it wasn't about heritage, it was about were she lived, how did we meet etc. My wife to be, my 20 year old kids and I all burst out laughing at its inappropriateness and then pointed out how many people used this phrase in a racist way (intentionally or not). Mum was horrified and really got into being careful about phraseology from then on. An unintentional, non-malicious mistake by someone who had little or no experience of different ethnicities is forgivable.
Someone who has had years of meeting foreign dignitaries, was married to the chairman of the BBC and Times newspaper should know better and not continue to push the point. That is very worrying behaviour at the heart of the most privileged group in the country. You'd think they would know better, have some training/awareness, but no...... sinks into an anti monarchist rant.
My best friend is black (I'm married to her) so watch your language because even if you are a right on sandal wearing whatever you can get it wrong!
Just stepped out to say goodbye to Mrs W as she goes off to a meeting and asked her if she would be upset if I said "Some of my best friends are black"? Yep she would so I responded that "my best friend is black" to which she responded "Your best wife is black!!!!!". I'm just of to check the second best one.....

I had only seen the headlines, that transcript is far far worse than i had imagined.

yeah, at first I was giving a little leeway thinking that maybe the question (was still assuming one comment at that point) had come from an accent or something, not a bloomin’ Hackney accent! The transcript is horrendous

Edit: even the way it started was bad, Hussy moved a dreadlock out of the way to see her name badge. Just overstep that personal boundary straight out of the gate

She didn’t commit the cardinal sin though. Hearing someone with a ‘northern’ accent and asking them if they’re from Lancashire when they’re from Yorkshire, or vice versa 😉

The sin being that thats not the North?

I've done similar with colleagues with obviously foreign accents but read the reaction and apologise if they don't like the question as well as only ask once.  I used it as a way to get to know them a bit and would follow it up with what I knew about the country or when I had been there

Normally got a good reaction when I knew a little about their country or could tell a story from when I was there

I wouldn't do it now and I would never have pushed it like that.

It's possible to have a genuine and innocent interest in someone's roots

It's possible to be "a bit clumsy" in asking.

That whole dialogue goes way beyond clumsy.

I wonder if she ever pressed Queen Liz the same way until she got the answer "Germany".

Normally got a good reaction when I knew a little about their country or could tell a story from when I was there

The woman in question was from the UK though....

Whyteleafe via Ethiopia.

Indeed Ads

"What business is it of yours?"

Not really one question…

Ok fair enough. The whole transcript makes it sound like a Gestapo interrogation.

It’s possible to have a genuine and innocent interest in someone’s roots

I've been thinking about this this morning, as I initially thought the same. But I've realised that if I met someone white at a do, I wouldn't give their 'roots' any thought at all (unless, to be fair, I heard them speak with a particular accent or they were wearing a beret, a stripey top and a string if onions around their neck or something). I've realised that the reason I might be, what I initially thought innocently, interested in someone non-white's 'roots' is because of just that, they're not white. I've therefore based at least part of my interest and, in some way, opinion, of them on the colour of their skin. And that, I think, is unconscious racism. I think.

Where are you from , no really from

North Borneo, fishing village, really. LOL!

Ancestors from SE Asia and China.

@5.9565904,116.0494652,3a,75y,207.84h,108.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEFfmTZGgSZWYRW5wG-CZjA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US">Behind the Aru tree was my childhood house.
That Aru tree is several hundreds years old I guess. Sea is on the other side of the road. Plenty of reclaimed land to build houses. The place used to be much much nicer but it's a "dump" now.

Some of my ancestors are Norwegian but no one has asked me the question yet 🙁

So I would live to chat about horned helmets;) , longships... raiding etc.

But I'm not... only in fantasy and a bit of DNA.

Where are you from?

Where your born I suppose.... Bristol, UK. is where your/I from. in my case.

But if I dressed like a viking, I'd expect questions.

If I ever meet a member of the royal family or one of their hangers on I'll definitely be interrogating them to find out exactly how closely they're related to their spouse.

'Ah, so you're his great-aunt and yet you both share the same grandmother. I knew we'd get there in the end...'

I'm white but not infrequently get similar questions when people see or hear my surname, which is really unusual even in the region it is from (somewhere round the Poland/Czech Republic/Slovakian border - my dad's family were peasants so they didn't keep records either 😀 ).

I like being asked as it's quite an interesting story, but I can see how that's all kind of different to the main example here.

Here's the charity boss's aural account of the conversion on the beeb.

Her accent is, well, British (one of many) so it's pretty obvious this was a "colour" thing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63819482

Many folk think my name is French.  Its actually cornish

Some of my ancestors are Norwegian but no one has asked me the question yet 🙁

That's funny! Because of my surname many people have assumed I have Norwegian or Scandinavian heritage. Passport control in Iceland, my consultant I saw last week and countless others over the years including some Norwegians, but I've never seen it as a Norwegian name! I've traced my family.on that side back to the 1800s and they're all Durham or Yorkshire, and then Iowa in USA as the earliest in the late 1700s! I guess the Iowan may have come from Norway. One day I might get one of those gene tests to see!

I get asked the question often, because whilst i'm from Liverpool, my accent isn't quite fully Steven Gerrard nowdays, it's more tame.. but people can tell i'm from near enough Liverpool.

I'm fine with that..

I'd arguably be less fine if i was in the transcript situation though.

People ask me where I'm from all the time at work on calls, without knowing my colour (which is white), they are simply interested. In the past I asked people of colour the same question, out of interest and something to talk about, but I stopped once it was pointed out to me that it is a potentially loaded question that context and could be unwelcome.

My questioners stop at 'Cardiff' assuming they know where that is, and the Susan Hennessey should very obviously have stopped at 'Hackney'.

How many generations are we supposed to go back to find our correct nationality?
Aren't we all from Africa eventually?

I’ve been thinking about this this morning, as I initially thought the same. But I’ve realised that if I met someone white at a do, I wouldn’t give their ‘roots’ any thought at all (unless, to be fair, I heard them speak with a particular accent or they were wearing a beret, a stripey top and a string if onions around their neck or something). I’ve realised that the reason I might be, what I initially thought innocently, interested in someone non-white’s ‘roots’ is because of just that, they’re not white. I’ve therefore based at least part of my interest and, in some way, opinion, of them on the colour of their skin. And that, I think, is unconscious racism. I think.

That's really interesting, thanks - was horrified by the transcript yesterday but when chatting about it with Mrs Pondo last night, I couldn't explain why asking is dubious. Now I can, thank you.

I wonder if she ever pressed Queen Liz the same way until she got the answer “Germany”.

Exactly. No-one has ever asked this of me - because I am white and an English accent. (and pertinently, I am Indian by birth and lots of family heritage).

How many generations are we supposed to go back to find our correct nationality?
Aren’t we all from Africa eventually?

Fish like creatures. We were fish. LOL!

People can ask me anything as I don't get offended at all.

One of my colleague used to called me North Korean because he thought I looked like one LOL! But then I found out his grandparents adopted a Welsh surname to blend in in London ... LOL!

“Your best wife is black!!!!!”.

You missed a trick there, "What, I'm allowed more than one?"

There’s a big difference between asking “where are you from?” once and repeating the same question and disregarding the given answers more than nine times in a row. That’s hideous.

I’m sure that it’s a coincidence that the same aide has been the source of many disparaging comments about a mixed-race member of the Royal family too.

I did think it was one of those non stories that seem to grow out of nowhere occasionally, but having read that transcript, if that's only half true it's cringingly bad. These people are supposed to be our betters somehow?

idiots

@PJM1974

I’m sure that it’s a coincidence that the same aide has been the source of many disparaging comments about a mixed-race member of the Royal family too.

I didn't know that, is it rumoured or actually documented?

Good advice for life in general is to never read the comments section on the Daily Mail website, but the comments for this story show how far we still have to come for acceptance of anyone that isn't a blue shade of white.
I won't (and probably can't) link to it, go and find it for yourselves to be saddened and angered - actually don't because you can probably already guess what it says.

Many folk think my name is French.  Its actually cornish

I would have thought you’d get more questions why your mum called you Tandem than about your surname Jeremy.

Very elderly privileged white lady asks very out of touch and offensive question shocker.

From what I've heard, these roles and the people filling them, are being phased out under Charles, thank goodness.

Feel sorry for William on this one, you can't choose your godparents, and we have no idea if she had any influence over him and his views anyway

Sorry, but I don't agree on this idea that any interest is subconscious racism but then I've been asked the same question based on my accent and vocabulary (someone was convinced I must have been brought up in the border area but that was a link to my grandparents) and also knowing how folk in the Highlands and Islands often show an interest based on surname/clan and how that often has a geographical root.

Another example based on the person's name has already been given above.

"Where are your people from?"

Jesus. I bet everyone in earshot had their super sour gobstopper faces on for that one.

I like to freak people out if it's being asked inappropriately, one of the advantages of being born in Kenya....you can see their little brains reach "does not compute"

scotroutes
Full Member
Sorry, but I don’t agree on this idea that any interest is subconscious racism

Of course it isn't, but any intentions beyond interstest will be likely become clear very quickly. E.g. Me, from Glasgow (not a thick accent but certainly Scottish and speak at West Coast speed) working in a call centre back in the day:

Caller on the other end "where are you?"
Me "Glasgow"
"Yeah but where are you really? You're not in Glasgow"
and you can guess how things went from there before I hung up

'Germany' (Charles)

A vagina.

Feel sorry for William on this one, you can’t choose your godparents, and we have no idea if she had any influence over him and his views anyway

It looks like she had a hand in the optics of his infamous Caribbean tour. Or people with the same colonial viewpoints, at least

I'm sure plenty of us visibly winced when seeing images like this? I remember being gobsmacked that anyone thought this was a good look in the 21st century

Isn't it sad that even now such questions are asked, likely only to people of colour. I remember how well Sadiq Khan batted away such a question asked by the BBC when visiting India/****stan:
BBC reporter: "does this feel like coming home."
SK: “Nah, home is south London mate."

My surname is Ernest, derived from Ernst. Great grandad moved from Germany to UK post WW1 and added the 'e' before WW2 to hide the German ancestry. I have never been asked where I'm from etc. and it would seem its a safe assumption its because I'm white.

I don't know why people get so offended tbh because the past is really the past. Who you are now is more important. The person asking the question might be ignorant or naive but that only shows who they actually are. Why the need to feel accepted?

Who you are now is more important.

A woman from London, is and was a woman from London. The offence has come at being repeatedly pressed to give the old racist the answer she was looking for as a black woman obviously couldn't possibly be from London (in old racist world)

How many generations are we supposed to go back to find our correct nationality?
Aren’t we all from Africa eventually?

dont be arguing with racists on twitter, because quite often they dont believe that either

Think we're getting only one side of the story, the lady who was 'interrogated' has supplied the transcript herself, and made a few guest appearances in less than 24 hours, and still is.

Not sure we'll ever get the other side, but it does seem the press are going to town on this, considering it's a 'she said' with no corroboration, yes 83 year old privileged white women were brought up with racism, sexism, etc, etc being common language, but i can see this could have been less of an 'interrogation' and maybe a royal style small talk, i.e. you're here representing a charity for African and Caribbean women and i need to make small talk whilst circling the room.

Again, if the transcript is corroborated, then release the hounds, but it doesn't feel like we're getting the full story here.

Slight different spin.....when the planes crashed into the twin towers and the news was all about Muslim's etc..... My dear old dad at his office which he had been at for over 10years suddenly got asked by his workmates what religion he was?...now my dad (who is dark brown) don't take crap from no one, refused to tell them , even though he has no religious faith whatsoever..his train of thought is...why does it matter? It didn't matter last week before the planes crashed...he only got asked because he is brown...or bald..lol

What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?

Like I did this morning

Not sure we’ll ever get the other side, but it does seem the press are going to town on this, considering it’s a ‘she said’ with no corroboration

Pretty stuff there was a third party in the conversion who was also a little shocked by it all, so...

uggski
Full Member
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?

What about it? Did you get an answer you didn't like and then repeatedly push to get an answer that suited your narrative?

uggski
Full Member
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?

There was, and they aren't anonymous either

I know some people would love the balance that this story clearly needs but…

Pretty stuff there was a third party in the conversion who was also a little shocked by it all, so…

There was. I saw her being interviewed on TV (Beeb I think) about it.

My wife gets a similar interrogation from folk quite often. She is from Africa. It’s usually followed up with when are you going back home. She then tells them her kids were born here. They then push on with you must be missing home etc.

We still have a long way to go to get rid of racism it’s all over the UK. The recent issues with the Kevin Macavoy play in Glasgow is another good example. I’ve no idea how we can get rid of it. Maybe just a case of making it socially unacceptable.

Pretty stuff sure there was a third party in the conversion who was also a little shocked by it all, so…

Sorry for typo.

Yeah, I thought I had read on the Beeb that a third part corroborated the conversion.👍

What about it? Did you get an answer you didn’t like and then repeatedly push to get an answer that suited your narrative?What about it? Did you get an answer you didn’t like and then repeatedly push to get an answer that suited your narrative?

No, we were having a conversation while I replaced a laptop at work. it was only reading this that I thought about it. But i started typing it when there were only replies on the first page and it moved on a lot by the time I hit reply 🙂

Her family was from Morocco and no, I didn't have to ask repeatedly.

A woman from London, is and was a woman from London. The offence has come at being repeatedly pressed to give the old racist the answer she was looking for as a black woman obviously couldn’t possibly be from London (in old racist world)

That only shows the ignorance on the lady asking the question. If the lady is set in her old ways I doubt there is a need to change her views. I rather them be themselves then to "sweep it under the carpet" pretending to be someone who they are not.

Just like my colleague who kept questioning why I am here (passive racism or prejudice if I really want to interpret his intention) . I just told him I am legal and I can. Also told him my father fought two wars for the British empire and was offered citizenship but he rejected the offer, in preference for staying in Borneo (silly old fool, otherwise I would rich beyond my means!). He never stopped asking. Rather irritating tbh but one day I found out his grandparents actually migrated to Britain for fear of persecution in Russia and middle east. My answer is very simple. My foolish idiotic father fought for the British empire without seeking a return and by offering his life, while his grandparents seek shelter in Britain to preserve their lives. Who contribute more? (a rather weird conversation between two "foreigners" to be honest but he is "white" with a Welsh surname but actual surname is unpronounceable LOL!) (at one point I was going to use the term "coward" but I refrained from using that description because it is no good for work relationship)

Thing is, it's not just going to be this once is it? She's been in royal service for 70 years, how many other times has it gone unchallenged (in and out of public). Unconfirmed rumours about Megan Markel etc aside.

Right to ask the same question back in response, would be only reasonable.

A few years ago at work (I was still fairly new there, getting to know people etc) I asked a (black, female) colleague how to pronounce her surname. Mostly, this was because I had to introduce people in meetings so knowing how to pronounce names was important and it certainly wasn't only POC that I asked - anyone with any sort of unusual name or spelling would get the same question.

I had a fair idea and I could also make a educated guess at the African origins of the surname but she was delighted that someone had actually asked that (rather than mangle her name or mumble it to avoid such things) and by having a conversation where she told me the pronunciation and I could ask "is that X or Y origin?" she then told me the origins of the name and the "where are you from?" answer without me asking a clumsy and potentially racist question.

There are certainly ways and means of asking that sort of question but I guess snobby royal hangers-on don't get taught that sort of thing.

Thing is, it’s not just going to be this once is it? She’s been in royal service for 70 years, how many other times has it gone unchallenged (in and out of public). Unconfirmed rumours about Megan Markel etc aside.

Why challenge? Why not just explain to her that time has changed.

There are certainly ways and means of asking that sort of question but I guess snobby royal hangers-on don’t get taught that sort of thing.

Yes, there certainly a way of asking without offending.

I always make it a point to ask people to educate me in pronouncing their names and surnames correctly. I can't pronouncing French because the muscle memory is not there.

I had to practice a few times to pronounce my South African (Zulu friend) surname many times because it starts with "N". While everyone struggles with the surname from my region "Ng". LOL! We had a good laugh.

p/s: my colleague who called me North Korean, a joke of some sort, actually caused a lot of embarrassment to one of my Scottish colleague as he thought it was full on racism but could only mastered up a nervous smile ... LOL!

“What business is it of yours?”

May have spent time/childhood in Africa on holidays etc. Loves the country, or even like many children of the diplomatic or military backgrounds were born or brought up there. Might even have friends born/lived there.

Personally I dont think there was a thing racial about the questions.

I think this is a case of  looking for racism where racism doesn't exist.

You read that transcript and you think that thats 'looking for racism where racism doesn’t exist'?

Righto

It’s possible to have a genuine and innocent interest in someone’s roots

It’s possible to be “a bit clumsy” in asking.

That whole dialogue goes way beyond clumsy.

Indeed.

Taking this a step further though, what is the correct way to ask someone obviously foreign where they are from without it being seen as a loaded question? Just ask where they grew up? Sounds more like you're taking an actual interest but I could be wrong.

Interesting surname or otherwise I'd assume "what's your family heritage" for the same reason?

A vagina.

Incorrect answer!  The only acceptable answer is "From my Father's Balls!"

Sorry, but I don’t agree on this idea that any interest is subconscious racism but then I’ve been asked the same question based on my accent and vocabulary

Yeah, fair enough, it's maybe not that anyinterest is unconscious racism. As ever, context is important, and I suppose the real question to ask yourself is why the question is being asked, i.e. what has prompted you to think that the person's roots are, for whatever reason, of interest. If it's as per your example, because of a distinctive accent or vocab, then that might be fair enough. If it's just because the person's skin is a different colour, not so much.

ask someone obviously foreign

As above, first ask yourself why you think they're obviously foreign.

May have spent time/childhood in Africa on holidays etc. Loves the country, or even like many children of the diplomatic or military backgrounds were born or brought up there. Might even have friends born/lived there.

Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?

doesn't sound like it

Did anyone else hear Lady SH’s friend defending her on Radio 4 yesterday and, in doing so, just making it sound much worse? She rolled out all the usual rubbish you get from casual racists.
- She is form a different age/era
- There were not black people around when she was younger
- She can’t be racist as she has black friends

The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.

No she wasn't. I mean, if you've never been to London you might think that, but otherwise... no, not really.

Tell me what you want, what you really really want

Many folk think my name is French.  Its actually cornish

I'm pretty sure Jerry originates from 1970s sitcom

This reminds me actually, I was once at a BBQ where one of the families there was hosting a Japanese student for a bit who was studying English. She was there too, she was nice, but her English wasn't that great so conversations were a bit tricky and had to be simplified to a certain extent

At one point one of the other guests said to her something along the lines of "can you tell if someone is Korean or Chinese..." and then mid-sentence realising that she was effectively saying "...because you all look the same to me". Watching her trying to dig her way out of that in such a way that the Japanese girl could understand, but that would not be hugely offensive, was both awful, and hilarious.

The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.

Questions about what she was wearing might have been acceptable ("I like that dress, where's it from?"), and then may have led to a conversation about her heritage. Assuming any heritage based on what she was wearing is suspect.