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Just had a sleep over for my youngest daughter's 13th. Been told by one child that their mum will 'be having words with us' when she picks up as we removed all phones and ipads from the bedroom as is our house rule - then told them off when they went and took them back from the room we'd put them in. We even left it till 10pm - normally we take devices 2 hrs before bedtime.
This morning one girl is refusing to eat anything because we have no sliced white bread or crunchy nut cornflakes - despite having a load of other kid friendly cereal (cinnamenies, tropical granola etc) which we bought specially. They are also talking loudly about our milk only being semi-skimmed when everybody knows its fattening and we should only drink fully skimmed or some other nonsense which has even less fat.
This after one parent told me her daughter will only at maragarita pizza and tesco curly fries (which we duly bought as its a birthday party and we didn't want it spoiled)
WTF is wrong with people? No wonder there are no normal kids left with parents bending to every whim of these little demons.
Or are we the abnormal ones for having rules that are enforced in our house and ensuring a healthy varied diet for our children?
Or are we the abnormal ones for having rules that are enforced in our house and ensuring a healthy varied diet for our children?
This, weirdo
kids are bonkers, our granddaughter (2 and a bit) turn her nose up at triple cooked chips and ketchup but later had a double helping of thai green chicken curry and sticky rice.
All those ****wits we knew at school have had kids and their double ****wit kids have produced quadruple ****wit kids.
Is this your first encounter with humans?
Been told by one child that their mum will ‘be having words with us’ when she picks up as we removed all phones and ipads from the bedroom as is our house rule
The usual reasoning given for this is that otherwise it would be difficult for the child to contact their parent for an emergency middle-of the-night extraction should the sleepover go wrong. Besides which, it's not your phone, is it.
Surprisingly (or not), these are real world reasons, served up by real world mums.
I suggest that in future you agree the rules of engagement before allowing the kid's parents to drop them off.
HTH.
So some kids disobeyed instructions from parents and played with their toys when they were told not to, then they got fussy about food. Sounds normal to me.
Yeah of course it's for them to contact their mum. Its not at all for them to play Roblox and watch you tube all night long. If they need to reach their parents in an emergency they know where the landline is. Next?
It sounds like you have a healthy attitude and we would do the same, the only difference would be as someone mentioned above, we tend to set ground rules beforehand about food, electronic devices etc. I genuinely don’t think parents realise how damaging their lifestyles are for their children.
I started off like you mate, after numerous sleepovers (Which thankfully seem to have petered out!) you realise you just need to roll with it a bit.
And it's not my job to feed folks fussy kids, if a kid doesn't eat pizza for tea, or normal breakfast stuff*, then tough. They're free to help themselves to the fruit bowl. 😊
Wee shites.
* not cereal, I wouldn't feed that to a dog.
Its not at all for them to play Roblox and watch you tube all night long
It was a sleepover, not a school dormitory. They're 13, of course they're going to want to stay up all night mucking about and that's *exactly* why they want to have one.
Treating it like a school night is not really your job on this occasion - it's to keep them safe, feed them whatever they want and accept you'll not get much sleep.
Those sound like “normal” 13y old girls being fussy about food, rebelling against authority, expecting a sleepover to be an all night party rather than involving sleep. Do you not recall what 13y old girls were like when you were that age?
The amazing thing is you expected kids to eat granola and whatever cinnamenies are (although congrats that seems to be a new googlewhack which is a very rare thing in 2020).
load of other kid friendly cereal (cinnamenies, tropical granola etc)
Errrr! My kids don’t like cinnamon cereal things or granola your kids are weird, bacon sandwiches here and on sleepovers rules are relaxed that’s kind part of the excitement for the kids.
I think you're being confused by the word "sleep" in "sleepover". Let them do what they want, they'll eventually drift off around 3am and they won't be awake in time for breakfast, so another problem solved.
@wwaswas - you make a good point. To be fair, we left them to it and went to bed ourselves well before they did. The device thing is just a bit ingrained as I hate them in the bedroom and kids (even mine) spend WAY too much time on them - hell, so do I.
The food thing really bugs me as there is massive problem with healthy eating in the UK and it feeds (no pun intended) into most other aspects of life in general.
Personally, I'm all on board with the OPs intentions.
However. party sleepovers we tend to let things slide re devices and assume that there will be little sleep, but it's the kids that will suffer. We do give them strict warnings about pics and social media.
If friends are just staying over, then our "no screens in bedrooms" rule is enforced. But they know that in advance, we check re fussy eaters, but ours aren't perfect either.
Scout and Guide camps are fun - nop phones or tablets rule, then wait to see which parent contacts you first to tell you that little Johnny/Maisy is unhappy and wants to come home. Maybe if little Johnny/Maisy had obeyed the rule, not used their device and joined in with the other activities, they'd be feeling a bit happier
Your roof, your rules.
Food fussiness is par for the course I suppose, but regarding electronic devices, I don’t think they’ve been part of our way of life for long enough for there to be any societal norms that are accepted by the majority of people, which is where the friction occurs. It’s surreal to me that parents don’t strictly control such a potentially harmful item, but someone else will be thinking the exact opposite, and plenty more people somewhere in between. We haven’t yet reached consensus point on electronic etiquette.
Blimey I’m glad I don’t have kids and need to worry about all this stuff. Sounds a bit of a minefield to me. Not sure anyone can win when everyone has such different ways of parenting their kids. I do think however that when they stay in someone else’s house they should definitely abide by their rules. It’s only for one night.
They are still learning the rules of engagement. Today they learned that:
Not everyone has the same rules at home
They are not the centre of the universe
You go hungry if you don't eat what is offered
The food thing really bugs me as there is massive problem with healthy eating in the UK and it feeds (no pun intended) into most other aspects of life in general.
One night off for Beatrix from her couscous with pomegranate and sunflower seeds isn’t going to do any real harm. Pringles, Percy pigs and pop overload will be fine for one night.
The Scout example is interesting. I'm a scout leader and even though kids have had phones for years it is only recently that there has been a problem with them always wanting them with them. Like most troops we ban phones at meetings and on camp unless its for emergency use and that was never (or rarely)an issue. Over the last year or so we have seen a massive increase in kids ignoring us or kicking off when phones are removed. They all know the rules and they haven't changed in 5 years.
What ever the software and hardware companies are doing its turning phones from 'cool devices' into basically crack cocaine
@winston - think it's the societal change from "toy" to "lifeline", which is sad. Seems to be that bigger camps with more activities there are fewer issues than the odd night away locally. And depends on the kids - eldest went to WSJ last year in the States for 3 weeks, was pretty obvious a couple in his group were messaging parents daily, he didn't contact us directly but we did see his pics in the WhatsApp group
I think all parents should help out at their local scout group, you'll soon realise you're own kids are pretty good and that there's some weirdos out there (kids and parents)
WJS was a bit of a special case though - having your child in the US for 3 weeks among thousands of others would have most parents hyperventilating without frequent contact these days. Things have changed a lot. When I went off round the world in the early 90's I called my parents once or perhaps twice in a year, now my friends kids whats-app daily from Chang Mai
What ever the software and hardware companies are doing its turning phones from ‘cool devices’ into basically crack cocaine
It feeds addictive behaviour by constant serotonin boosting from those moments of pleasure / feeling a part of things and also the games are designed in this way ie you "win" lots of small things / stages
Thus when you stop it you no longer have that serotonin boost and feel "down" - they reset "normal" to a state of constant small serotonin boosts
No hyperventilating from us 🙂
Peak jamboree in July - wife is on staff team this year as other leaders are taking her unit, daughter will be with her unit, eldest will be away at NSGSO that same week, the only one who will contact me as they need something will be the wife
a load of other kid friendly cereal (cinnamenies, tropical granola etc)
Whit? Proper lol.
Yeah of course it’s for them to contact their mum. Its not at all for them to play Roblox and watch you tube all night long.
As said, I think you're missing the entire point. A sleepover isn't about sleeping, it's about getting to dick around with your mates far later than normal, waking up knackered the next day and having an easy Sunday before you go back to school. Don't worry though, I don't think they'll be asking for one again any time soon.
If they need to reach their parents in an emergency they know where the landline is.
That's funny.... They would have no idea how to use it or what number to call.
Sorry but I think you're going to be in for a hard few years as your 13yo gets older, wiser and more independent.
Absolutely fine having your house rules for your kids (and well done for getting them to stick to them so far) but I'm not sure about imposing them on others.
As said, it was a party sleepover, so maybe normal house rules shouldn't apply...it's only for one night.
So, instead of being 'cool' and relaxed for the night, your daughter now thinks you've embarrassed her in front of her friends.
If they need to reach their parents in an emergency they know where the landline is. Next?
Most unreasonable thing in this thread. Who has a landline in 2020?
I'm most amused that half the group is too healthy for semi-skimmed milk* and the other half demand pizza and curly fries. I guess 13 is right at the kid to teenage transition.
*I didn't even realise people bought the other types. Thought they were just there on the shelves to reaffirm that semi-skimmed is always the correct choice.
Lol whatever - took them dry slope skiing yesterday and they all loved it. Bought hover shoes and blu-tooth led headphones which light up in time to the music....WITH CAT EARS!!! All my daughters friends want the exact same presents for thier birthdays and think my daughter has the coolest parents who are a bit strict. All of them have slept over many times before and will do so again I'm sure.
The mobile phone and food issues are getting worse the older they get though and that what what I was highlighting.
As for 'a few years time'.....I have older children who are already well into their teenage years thanks.
You think tropical granola is a kid cereal- that’s your problem right there 😉
There are no normal kids.
Weird is the new normal.
Normal is the new weird
@db It is in our house. And my kids like sprouts too! (though one hates parsnips and another won't touch onions - can't all be perfect!) Don't talk to me about the veggie one.</span>
Have we worked out what the cinnammenes are yet?
I always wonder if as parents there is much thought about what we did when we were kids. Compared to me and my brother my kids are angels.
When we have sleep overs, which is fairly often with my girls, if it’s a celebration then there’s not much sleep happening. If they want to eat junk for breakfast that’s fine with me, for a celebration. (My kids and their friends just finished a pretty gruelling cross country running season yesterday, they were treated to an afternoon in one of those dessert only restaurants. Totally unhealthy, but it’s a treat, which is the same as a celebration sleep over, a one off treat.
So, the answer to the OP is "everywhere". Don't try to impose your version of "normal" onto others.
Control - gaining it, keeping it, maintaining it. Even more difficult when kids or animals are involved. It’s a ****ing tightrope, one slip and.... whooooooooosh!
Thank **** neither the kids or animals know how tenuous our grasp of control really is.
Or, we learn to roll with it 😁
Just for drac
The very progressive and wacky cereal choice. 100% processed sugar and by far the most popular choice in our house by those under 15 when allowed.
I guess this is fundamentally a question or lesson in when and how normal rules are broken or bent and how they then get reapplied after ??
For Winston, perhaps an observation made by Voltaire in his "Letters Regarding the English" is an interesting perspective. Earliest letters are regarding Quakers whom he greatly admired in many ways yet observed that (my phrasing) better to break rules within limits
What I find disturbing is not kids wanting to play with mobile devices all night but that they somehow need to be in contact with their parents from their parents perspective.
Ah! Cheers I thought you meant those. Can’t say my kids or any of their friends have asked for them.
The mobile phone and food issues are getting worse the older they get though and that what what I was highlighting.
Which is normal behaviour for teenagers. You're not asking them to be normal, you're asking them to be well-behaved.
When my eldest had a sleepover, he had a couple of mates round. I never really liked one of them , far too opinionated for a ten year old, caused trouble with most of his “friends” and his mummy believed everything he told her. Final straw was when i overheard him trying to tell my son how to delete his browsing history !!
Luckily , they have fallen out and we have not had to see the conniving little shits face since ( the “friend”, not my lad 😂)
When I was 13 I probably spent most of my time trying to get from 'Deadly' to 'Elite' on my Acorn Electron (couldn't stretch to a BBC Model B....).
Growing up you think your family is normal then you leave home and, over time, establish whether your family were a bunch of crazies or everybody else is crazy...my son is leaving home to go to uni probably this year and i await his initial assessment of whether his family were fruit loops (not the breakfast cereal)
A sleepover isn’t about sleeping, it’s about getting to dick around with your mates far later than normal, waking up knackered the next day and having an easy Sunday before you go back to school.
Nail on head. It's not the time to be imposing arbitrary household rules on others.
Junior J only gets crunchy nut cornflakes when we’re camping & on his birthday!😃
Some of his friends are surprisingly fussy eaters. They will only have plain pasta etc. When they come round we make concessions but it’s the continuous begging for snacks that does my head in.
What did the mother say?
Well, for what it's worth, I'm fully in support of OP here.
Sounds to me like what you've got there is "normal kids" rather than "normal in 1980 kids."
"what did the mother say"
Well I've no idea whether the child told her or not but we ended up dropping all the kids back because of the weather and my wife just got a text from her mum saying thanks so much for having xxxx she had a great time so I guess it wasn't the end of her world as some on here have suggested.
"It’s not the time to be imposing arbitrary household rules on others"
There is nothing arbitrary about the rules in our house and thats why they get applied to everybody.
I've spent a lot of time dealing with kids from many different backgrounds and two things seem to work with all of them. Firstly they prefer to have boundaries, if only to test and push against and secondly they hate hate hate not being listened to and their views not being taken seriously. Do those two things properly and you will rarely get long term issues - though obviously it does happen occasionally.
There is nothing arbitrary about the rules in our house and thats why they get applied to everybody.
Ah, because you know better than everyone else. Gotcha.
Ha, just wait until those kids hit 14, and the precocious ones use their phones to summon their boyfriends to the "sleepover".
You'll be up all night.
Oh, and it won't be 14 year old boys...
Tip: gravel paths all around the house, especially under windows.
ransos I’m pretty sure I know better than most 13 year olds in most circumstances (not all but most) yes.
In how to be a killjoy? I agree.
I thought the first rule of sleep overs was that we have pancakes for breakfast? Thats what we did this morning.
*I didn’t even realise people bought the other types. Thought they were just there on the shelves to reaffirm that semi-skimmed is always the correct choice.
My g/f had a customer today ask if they sold gold top milk where she works. She’s not even sure if such a thing is even available anywhere anymore.
In how to be a killjoy? I agree.
Pretty sure of yourself, aren’t you. One might even say cocky.
But I’ll bet you have your own flaws.
Pretty sure of yourself, aren’t you. One might even say cocky.
But I’ll bet you have your own flaws.
You sound about as much fun as the OP.
The point, which you completely failed to grasp, is that I'm not claiming to know what's best, and that it might be better to lighten up.
"I thought the first rule of sleep overs was that we have pancakes for breakfast? Thats what we did this morning."
Pancakes for supper tonight, That would be proper Dutch pancakes obvs. As requested by the birthday girl herself (who is Dutch anyway)
On sleepovers I am happy enough with them staying up and chatting etc. That's fine and we factor it in for the rest pf the weekend.
But I'm definitely with the OP on phones/tablets. The biggest problem is that while we have our devices pretty well locked down (child accounts, restricted apps, filtering, activity reports), other parents are considerably more lax.
My eldest is 9 and many of her friends not only watch TikTok but have their own accounts and post videos! Obviously I am a terrible human being for not allowing her unsupervised access. 🙄
imposing arbitrary household rules on others.
His house, his rules. Seems reasonable. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Some kids that age smoke; is that okay? Maybe they’d expect you to provide the fags, as that’s what their parents do. You gonna pop to the shop for them?
Also, the rules in question are hardly onerous. If you come over to socialise, be bloody sociable, don’t stare at a screen the whole time.
FWIW, I fully expect a hardening of opinion about the (mental)health implications of excessive smart phone useage in kids, and even adults within 10-15 years. It’s fairly obvious that there is some very clever/sinister technology that isn’t good for young (or my) brain.
You didn't make pancakes or waffles after a sleepover? Your kid will be a social leper in the playground today! 😉
We take iPads and phones off kids we've had over for sleepovers at "lights out". All of the parents we have over are of a similar mindset to us mind you.
My eldest is 9 and many of her friends not only watch TikTok but have their own accounts and post videos! Obviously I am a terrible human being for not allowing her unsupervised access. 🙄
DO NOT GIVE THEM AN ACCOUNT!!! TikTok is not about innocent dance trends and lip syncing anymore. Its full of 13yr olds bragging about how good they are at sucking dick and how their boyfriend is a drug dealer!
(although congrats that seems to be a new googlewhack which is a very rare thing in 2020).
Congrats indeed!
As to the phone use, if the child suffers from separation anxiety or any of the other conditions associated with childhood trauma then I'd probably be ok with them having a phone to call mum when it all gets a bit much at 3am. BUT, carers of said child should have discussed boundaries etc prior to the sleepover anyway.
Teenagers, mad as a box of frogs, always have been but shitfire they're really, really crackers these days.
I'm with OP, your house, your rules. Keep it polite but if Mrs Mum of over entitled Teen has a issue, do invite her to run her home as she sees fit and allow you to do the same.
For reference, ours stayed over a friends house Saturday night, they got to sleep at 5am apparently, he was extra specially dickish all day yesterday, found him fighting sleep trying to read a book 2 hours after his bedtime even though he admitted he could no longer read the words. If anyone thinks you should allow teenagers total control over their lives, consider that.
I am a bit split here. Yes the kids should abide by the rules of the house, but a bit of communication helps to ensure everyone knows where they stand (ie, tell the parents what you will be doing and ensure they are onside with you before you are handed the keys to their kids).
But I also agree that rules should be relaxed a bit on sleepovers as they are meant to be fun. We had a sleepover on Saturday (my wife was away and for some reason I suggested my two 10 yr olds had a friend over) and we set some simple rules, but at the same time I let them watch more TV than we would normally, I let them have a 'midnight feast' in their bedroom and let them go to bed a little later than normal. I think they are fun 🙂
If anyone thinks you should allow teenagers total control over their lives, consider that.
Ay? Consider one child reading a book past their bed time. I don’t get it.
@winston - make sure she doesn't invite a kid with a STW account username ransos next time. Stroppy little twerp. 😆
DO NOT GIVE THEM AN ACCOUNT!!!
It's sad really because I watch TikTok and there are some really creative videos on there made by some talented people. But yeah, there's also lots of stuff that is (or should be) very inappropriate for kids.
I generally curate it by favouriting any videos I see that I think the kids would enjoy and then letting them watch those (with supervision).
Same issue with YouTube to a lesser extent - Kids YouTube is a bit babyish for a 9 year old, but full YouTube is still a bit of a Wild West so she's not allowed that on her phone and watches it in the lounge where we can see what she is doing.
If anyone thinks you should allow teenagers total control over their lives, consider that.
Ay? Consider one child reading a book past their bed time. I don’t get it.
See, that's the difference.
'My Little Timmy is a complete Angel blissful ignorance parent' thinks "Ay? Consider one child reading a book past their bed time. I don’t get it."
'Teenagers are all nuts and left to themselves will do stupid things parent' "So a Kid who slept maybe 2 hours the night before and has been a in a foul mood all day because they're tired is actually trying to forcing themselves to stay awake even though they can no longer focus their eyes on a school night, best tell them to go to sleep.
We're all guessing this parenting caper, but when parents tell me they let their kids keep their devices all night, don't put in place content restrictions or even screen time limits, I just see someone who wants an easy life.
His house, his rules. Seems reasonable. Otherwise where do you draw the line?
Yeah, relaxing just a little bit is definitely going to mean anarchy. Thin end of the wedge. Give 'em an inch and they take a mile. Never did me any harm.
@winston – make sure she doesn’t invite a kid with a STW account username ransos next time. Stroppy little twerp. 😆
I expect your solution to non-compliance with rules is to bore them to death with your dubious taste in music.
But I also agree that rules should be relaxed a bit on sleepovers as they are meant to be fun. We had a sleepover on Saturday (my wife was away and for some reason I suggested my two 10 yr olds had a friend over) and we set some simple rules, but at the same time I let them watch more TV than we would normally, I let them have a ‘midnight feast’ in their bedroom and let them go to bed a little later than normal. I think they are fun 🙂
Precisely. I wonder if the miserablists on this thread are actually seeking ways of ensuring that their kids' friends never want to come round again.
Yeah of course it’s for them to contact their mum. Its not at all for them to play Roblox and watch you tube all night long. If they need to reach their parents in an emergency they know where the landline is. Next?
This. They're at your house, if there are any weird rules, like if you were Jehovah's witnesses and didn't want to actually celebrate the birthday, it's up to you to tell people. If there are any weird wishes to avoid the rules, say wanting kids to be left with gaming devices all night, it's up to them to tell you.
Although also, kids being fussy eaters is hardly "weird" but different levels of fussy result from different parenting styles. And in an unusual environment it's hardly surprising that these traits might come out more.
I wonder if the miserablists on this thread are actually seeking ways of ensuring that their kids’ friends never want to come round again.
No that's just a bonus!
So a Kid who slept maybe 2 hours the night before and has been a in a foul mood all day because they’re tired is actually trying to forcing themselves to stay awake even though they can no longer focus their eyes on a school night, best tell them to go to sleep.
Ah! Now that makes more sense. That wasn’t how it came across and I agree yes, we try to limit sleepovers to Fridays or outside of school times to try prevent this. Our youngest is a right nightmare when she’s not has enough sleep, the eldest is no bother.
a load of other kid friendly cereal (cinnamenies, tropical granola etc)
You tried to feed granola to teenagers? Jesus! You're lucky your house is still standing!
However, all those kids will now be telling all and sundry at school how you tried to feed them some weird shit that you'd clearly just swept off the floor in the back garden, then mixed in with that stuff that you feed to hamsters.
I hope that when your kids arrive home from school you're going to apoligise to them for all the Chinese burns, wedgies and unrelenting vicious mockery they'll have been getting all day
Ah! Now that makes more sense. That wasn’t how it came across and I agree yes, we try to limit sleepovers to Fridays or outside of school times to try prevent this. Our youngest is a right nightmare when she’s not has enough sleep, the eldest is no bother.
Ah, fair enough.
Both our kids are just moody gits when they're tired.
Indeed all kids are weird it’s part of the fun.