When you ask a demo...
 

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When you ask a demolisher to preserve something...

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The Christie Memorial Clock , Stirling, had a few structural issues and it was decided to dismantle the structure, and later rebuild.

Last Friday night this happened (The fun really starts at 13mins):

The council have since announced “We are fully committed to the rebuild and restoration of this important local landmark. "

Good luck putting that back together.

https://www.stirling.gov.uk/news/statement-on-christie-clock/


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:29 pm
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That's amazing. Surely it's normal practice to remove scaffolding that is in the way or at least erect it in such a way as to allow access to the structure being taken down.

#Edit - comments above based on 13' onwards. I've just watched the first few minutes. That is not dismantling with a view to rebuilding, that is either willful destruction or gross incompetence.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:34 pm
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WTF?????? Oops! But why did he then destroy all the scaffolding too? Having a strop?


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:35 pm
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Is it just me - lousy connection so I've only watched a few seconds at various intervals - but are they trying to dismantle the scaffolding with that, rather than just taking it down?


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:36 pm
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I'm no expert, but that grabber/digger thing didn't look like the right tool for the job.
Did the operator just get fed-up with softly-softly & decide to smash it all up, including the scaffolding?

Maybe it's owned by the same people as that Wonky Pub and there'll be a block of flats put up in it's place soon?


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:39 pm
kelvin and oldnpastit reacted
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@coyote

that is either willful destruction or gross incompetence

Yep.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:39 pm
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I assume it's the same contractor that did the path on Dumyat


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:40 pm
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I'd really like to see the Method Statement for that.

Step 1. Discover your wife has been sleeping with your best mate

Step 2. Open Can of Special Brew


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:43 pm
kelvin, martinhutch, oldnpastit and 2 people reacted
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Demolition companies do this often.

Theres a reason most insurance companies wont cover scaffolders for demolition work.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:48 pm
kelvin reacted
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It honestly looked like they tried for a while to be careful, got bored or stroppy and just smashed the whole lot down.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:50 pm
thols2 reacted
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Looks like I'm in the wrong line of work. I've finally found a good use for some of my equipment 'skills'.
Just need a few cans first, and I'm there.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:52 pm
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Goodness me. There will be hopefully a few folk losing their jobs over that job! Who on earth signed off the RAMS / Lifting plan for that job?


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:58 pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-66695251

Seems like wanton destruction rather than any attempt to dismantle to reinstate...


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 2:58 pm
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Last Friday night this happened

Around kicking-out time...?


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:00 pm
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Contractors tried valiantly for five hours to remove the crown.

Must be in the other video then.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:12 pm
roger_mellie reacted
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I wonder if it was considered too dangerous to take the scaffolding down first.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:15 pm
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Agency driver.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:23 pm
 tomd
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Being charitable, is there a possibility the structure was deemed unsafe to to the point no-one was allowed to access the scaffold? The options then are fairly limited. But not sure why they couldn't have barried it off while they came up with a decent plan to set about it.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:28 pm
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A friend of mine has an historic buildings restoration company that has done major stone/lead/timber/plaster works on cathedrals/churches/clock towers etc.

He's shown me round a few of his local jobs when they've been working on them.

Swollen steel within stonework is an issue but I know for a fact he wouldn't have done it like that!!!!


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:29 pm
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No, the usual method would almost certainly involve an actual crane and having the load pre slung then cut & lifted away in a rather more controlled manner.

Not through the drunken hulk smash method these cowboys employed


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:34 pm
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I have a feeling Historic Environment Scotland may take a rather dim view of that, despite the report on the BBC site which says "... we worked with conservation officers and had all historic records in place..." that does not look like something which would be sanctioned by anyone with their head screwed on straight.
If unstable, at the very least it could have been guyed while they worked out a long-term plan.
Wanton destruction of listed structures without prior approval is a criminal offence AFAIK.
Built around 1905.
Category C listed in 1978 HES Listing details
Pretty much put beyond economic repair 2023.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:51 pm
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That tower has been sitting fine for years so no, I doubt there's a good reason for not removing it.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 3:54 pm
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I know nothing about (de)construction but am sure I could've done a better job than that!

Surely at the very least the top bit with the actual clock could have been strapped up and removed with a crane - it's not actually [I]that[/I] massive.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 4:30 pm
marra reacted
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I wonder if it was deemed too dangerous to both leave up or access the scaffolding - perhaps initial work had somehow disturbed or loosened something.

That said, on the surface it looks like a total clusterf*ck of a job from some people who should know better.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 4:37 pm
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Is that the bloke who put an end to the Crooked House at Himley ?


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 4:38 pm
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Still, it'll be a nice government contact to build the new one won't it.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 4:43 pm
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Is that the bloke who put an end to the Crooked House at Himley ?

Didn't set it on fire first, very sloppy.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 5:07 pm
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Why do it in the dark?

Reminds me of all those trees they had cut down in Plymouth overnight.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 8:56 pm
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I wonder if it was deemed too dangerous to both leave up or access the scaffolding

This is the only explanation of the actions that makes sense. It can be rebuilt. If it collapsed while being worked on, fixing the potential horrific injuries or bringing people back from the dead is a lot more difficult


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 9:14 pm
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This is the only explanation of the actions that makes sense

It really doesn't. What could possibly have happened between putting the scaffolding up and taking the crown off that could have weakened the entire structure? It was not an unsubstantial piece.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 9:29 pm
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This is the only explanation of the actions that makes sense. It can be rebuilt.

I guess it depends on where you stand on the ship of Theseus paradox.
I would go for replacing after a demolition like that.

As squirrelking says its quite hard to understand how it was considered safe to stick scaffolding up. Might go back to an older thread about scaffolders being nutters.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 9:33 pm
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No exactly on the same scale.

Bathgate's old swimming pools frontage had listed status. Local company clearing the site 'accidentally' knocked it down. 10 years later the plot of land is still vacant.

See also the listed villas at Bangour Village Hospital, site owners neglected them for years in the hope they would fall down. Mustn't have been any RAAC in the early 20th century as they're still standing and hopefully being redeveloped.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 10:21 pm
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Was his last job the Crooked House? 😳


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 11:00 pm
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Wanton destruction of listed structures without prior approval is a criminal offence AFAIK.

In this case the council via one or few of their officers may have given approval. They said it was urgent.

As much as I would like to see the people who caused this to happen (council, stonework and conservation advisors, demolition company, machine operator, ...) prosecuted, chances of it happening are slim.


 
Posted : 07/09/2023 11:43 pm
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I cant see any subcontract or lifting plan that would bring this to happen


 
Posted : 08/09/2023 6:56 am
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There are plenty of ways to dismantle an unsafe structure if you're prepared to spend some money doing it.

My guess is a badly worded request to the procurement dept, then a badly worded tender specification written by somebody with expertise in buying stationery but no knowledge of demolition or H&S, contract awarded to cheapest tender with no technical assessment, and no independent supervision requirement. All are unfortunately commonplace but rarely combined to such effect.


 
Posted : 08/09/2023 8:47 am
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Stirling Council are already well in the red with their finances, so suspect this has been done with as little time spent by each area to get this through and done. I'd hope Historic Scotland and someone else gets in and looks to press charges, but suspect nothing will happen - the Council will get a slap on the wrist and the operators will not have any impact either...it will then sit with all the other 'projects' that need to be fixed but there is no money to do.
I suspect all councils are in very similar situations...and we all complain about how poor council services are - more people to provide services for; more services needing to be provided and a severe lack of funding (due to various issues but many seem to be a bit of a fail in proper fiscal planning and lack of seeing the impact of the pandemic and cost of living crisis bringing many things to a head) - I'm not trying to defend the council as I do think they have massively dropped the ball on managed to dig this hole themselves.

Sorry, clearly had a rubbish sleep and this seems to be annoying me so I'm just ranting a bit.


 
Posted : 08/09/2023 8:59 am
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Could only be betered by that "ozzy man reviews" fella adding a commentry to it.

Sadly, it does seem like a parallel to the tories telling us the 'NHS would be safe in their hands' .

Year 2023 equates to around the 9m 30 to 10m 30 section by my mind.  Listing badly, work to stabilise ahead of election, a bit more dithering, but the witing is on the wall.


 
Posted : 08/09/2023 10:23 pm
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I've passed this thread a few times, can't stop thinking this would have been an appropriate soundtrack.


 
Posted : 08/09/2023 10:52 pm
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Thats shocking. Especially as its clearly a local authority led project.

By comparison, here's one under my control - a listed building almost completely destroyed by fire, but just enough left standing to be worth saving:

Fire damaged farmhouse


 
Posted : 08/09/2023 11:04 pm

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