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We're flipping [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/man-fish-powerade-wrapper-neck-around-it-angler-garbage-rubbish-trash-a8029586.html ]destroying the very things that sustain us[/url]!
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Plastic? How about the atmosphere. We've known this shit for decades but "progress" on actually reducing impact is questionable. Makes me sad.
Agree more needs to be done to get manufacturers to change their packaging.
Surfers Against Sewage have been organising beach cleans for donkeys years, you can count the attendance of some of them on one hand.
Anyway, tell me how I’m going to carry my spring onions home from Waitrose without a plastic bag.. and my tomatoes but hold on they come in a plastic tray and a plastic film covering them so that’s fine, but I’ve only got two arms and my milk will dribble on the floor if I have to carry that too..
#irony
Properly cheeses me off the amount of useless plastic packaging us humans use... grrrr
I don't understand why everything isn't in cardboard or paper yet? It seems cheaper and more sustainable with far less chemical processes. Do any product designers know why we don't have paper packaging on everything? It seems stupid to be using plastic in such a disposable way.
"Individually wrapped for freshness"
Or, wrapped in plastic & wrapped in plastic as it's otherwise known. Piss. Boiled.
Start charging for packaging like they did with carrier bags.
Just today in Sainsburys I walked past a cage full of 'out of date' plastic full-sized ready-'carved' 'pumpkins' that had been on offer from a fiver down to 60p
Must say, even tho so many remained unsold it gave me neither hope nor happiness for our currently miserable species.
Also a massive stack of 'special' orange plastic bowls within which to place your plastic-wrapped seasonal treats.
Special orange plastic, mind you. Destined forcthe landfill once the season is finished (ie next morning)
Shampoo marketing guy : I say dear old chemist, can you put some micro beads into the gloop?
Chemist: yer, cheaper than soap and it’ll agrivate the teeny bit of soap we actually put in the gloop.
Shampoo marketing guy: marvellous, we will promote “blonder, shiny, blond, shimmer gloop”
Chemist: but what will happen to the micro beads?
Shampoo marketing guy: down the drain mate now off you go, my bonus needs recalculating
It would only take the introduction of some simple legislation. It's one of those things future generations will look back on and ask what the hell were we thinking about?Agree more needs to be done to get manufacturers to change their packaging.
It would only take the introduction of some simple legislation.
A ban on breeders would be a good start. Let the planet recover for a bit.
Paper isn't necessarily the answer as its manufacture does require nasty chemicals. If the packaging was designed to be reused like proper milk bottles that would be better all round
never. same as anything that threatens wildlife/the planet/ecosystems.
humans are greedy, as long as there are humans, we are ****ed.
Yes! Let's close down the baby farms.A ban on breeders would be a good start.
Even if they just stopped wrapping things that really don't need to be wrapped it would be a start.
My do they sell bananas in a plastic bag frinstance? They already come in an excellent biodegradable container.
FMCG and food is nearly always plastic packaging where SS larger irregular purchases are often cardboard, it's the wrong way round!
Ban on plastic packaging for fresh food, reusable packaging for FMCG and processed food would be great but without legislation and with the lobby groups I don't see it happening
Once it's a bit closer to too late, we might consider it. It will be a bit later after that that we will consider actually doing something.
Just as an added point the recent introduction of the TPD laws affecting e-cigs has had a massive effect on how much more plastic I get through. Instead of the 100ml glass bottles I used to buy I now have to buy ten 10ml little plastic bottles instead. I throw piles of these in the recycling each month now and God knows if they actually do get recycled.
It'll change. I have hope.
It probably won't change fast enough mind.
Conscientiously reducing my usage of clingfilm and it's really not hard to do.
Also make a lot of my own cleaning products so no more individually wrapped dishwasher tablets.
I've been inspired by this Scottish blogger who neither patronises nor scolds:
never. same as anything that threatens wildlife/the planet/ecosystems.humans are greedy, as long as there are humans, we are ****.
My sentiments exactly.
Also make a lot of my own cleaning products so no more individually wrapped dishwasher tablets.
Interesting. What do you use?
(Also you know that not all dishwasher tablets come individually wrapped?)
Happy to share my recipes Graham and, yes, you're right about dishwasher tablets although they can be harder to find.
I bulk buy from here which makes it cheaper but you need to be careful about postage:
http://www.summernaturals.co.uk/
2 cups of Borax substitute
2 cups of soda crystals
1 cup of citric acid
1 cup of salt
Sweet orange essential oil
Just mix together and I store it in glass jars. Instead of using Rinse Aid, you can use white vinegar which is a staple of many home cleaning recipes. Again bulk buy.
Packaging ain't the problem, we (human race) are..
Just looked at the article linked to.... Wonder how long the fish survived without the powerade wrapper 😕
I doubt it would be living long either way.
Plenty of diswasher powder available in cardboard.
Plastic bottle and plastic film bags along with paper cardboard and cans /foil /glass are taken back to Tesco for recycling the week after i bought them at Tesco, they have recycling skips for all the above, "every little helps"
Wonder how long the fish survived without the powerade wrapper
Sadder still that the 'wrapper' is basically a plastic label used simply to advertise the sexysportyness of the drink. The bottle gets lobbed separately once the wrapper is torn off.
the thought of making [b]dishwasher[/b] tablets by hand being eco friendly - is trad washing* up not a better idea in the first place?
to be honest I am fairly firmly in the "sooner humans eff each other up completely the sooner the world can get on with its recovery" camp
* quite happy to be proved otherwise
I am the evil plastic manufacturer. 😈
I've worked in the plastic packaging industry for the last 25 years and in all fairness lots has changed in that time, but also we are using more and more needless packaging. I've been exposed to lots of new ideas about reusable and degrading plastics and "packaging solutions". But most, if not all, have fallen by the wayside due to the customer not being prepared to invest in something better.
I also did a stint within the drinks filling industry. Now there is an industry that on the surface looks environmentally friendly. Glass bottles and aluminium cans. Both recyclable in very easy systems, but the transportation costs are horrendous. Lorries transporting half empty loads because it weighs so much empty, or is just fresh air, then third full lorries to take away the filled bottles or cans.
Where I am now at least manufacture the PET bottles on site, so the material arrives by tanker, 2 or 3 a day, and then leaves when filled. It use to be a lorry "full" of empty bottles every 20 minutes, 24/7, plus they would then leave completely empty to return to refill with more fresh air.
I'm not making any claims that it good, far from it, but most of the packaging we see is customer driven, off the back of "packaging designers". If prepackaged fruit and veg didn't sell as well as it does then it wouldn't exist. It sells because that's how people want to buy it.
is trad washing* up not a better idea in the first place?
Wasn't there a thing a while ago that dishwashers used less water/energy than washing by hand?
Might help a bit if more people actually put the right stuff in their bin , we do one week mixed recycling, then landfill (actually incinerated these days), most times when I tip out the lorry it all looks the same , and the stuff that gets wasted is horrendous, the amount of food that people throw out is unbelievable , we are so wasteful.
Wasn't there a thing a while ago that dishwashers used less water/energy than washing by hand?
Yes there was.
Our dishwasher has a few litres of water sloshing about in the bottom whenever I open it. No way I could wash all those dishes in that amount of water.
to be honest I am fairly firmly in the "sooner humans eff each other up completely the sooner the world can get on with its recovery" camp
Never understood why humans coming out with this line and yet not being suicidal. If you aren't suicidal, then there's your answer.
If prepackaged fruit and veg didn't sell as well as it does then it wouldn't exist. It sells because that's how people want to buy it.
The clear and obvious alternative is to ban it. Then we wouldn't have a choice, loose produce would become normal again in a matter of months and no-one would give it a second thought.
Well we're far from perfect chez nous but most of our food is from local shops rather than supermarkets so we do our bit for reducing packing that way. Our milk is delivered in glass bottles. We recycle. However one thing I found alarming on a TV programme recently is the discovery of fine plastic filaments in plankton. They come from washing clothes made with artificial fibres.
So every time you wash your fleece or Helly you are polluting the oceans.
That's old news, as a result of fish eating that plankton there is now evidence of plastic particles present in the actual flesh of the fish we eat.However one thing I found alarming on a TV programme recently is the discovery of fine plastic filaments in plankton.
Maybe we will do something when we ourselves are partially composed of plastic (if not so already)?
Oops, too late we already are.
Couple of years ago I emailed Waitrose customer service why they package tomatoes in black plastic trays when black plastic could not be recycled by many councils and explained that I fully understood why it could not be recycled so why didn't they change to a different colour or clear.
They replied avoiding my question going on about how companies had been investing in research into black pigments which could still let the plastic type be identified.
I replied I knew this already (as per my original email) and asked again why they didn't just change to a different colour or used clear plastic instead.
I got the same email back...
I tried again...and got the same again.
In the end we stopped shopping there most of the time and buy tomatoes from Aldi who use clear plastic trays.
Every time I go into a supermarket the packaging makes me sad/angry/depressed. Likewise when I see it washed up on the beach.
I always collect rubbish when I see it when I am out, especially on the beach and my nephew does likewise now.
In the end we stopped shopping there most of the time and buy tomatoes from Aldi who use clear plastic trays.
Or go to a grocers and buy loose tomatoes in a recycled brown paper bag?
Or go to a grocers and buy loose tomatoes in a recycled brown paper bag?
Ha. Ha. Ha. Who has the time, inclination and the money to do that?
Also - have you ever tried parking a car near a local grocers?
Besides, most local 'grocers' are Tesco/One Stop etc.
Besides, most local grocers provide pkastic bags for produce.
Also, we got/get what we want. And we want to do it 'all in one'. At a superstore. With free parking. All wrapped in plastic.
Just being sarcastic btw. Currently eating ongoing late-ripening toms out of friend's polytunnel. Amazing, they actually taste like tomatoes too. Something that the supermarket-stocked 'on the vine' (they grow on vines????) offerings quite spectacularly fail to achieve.
#blandoverpricedtoss
Extra points if it is made from recycled carrier bags.Currently eating ongoing late-ripening toms out of friend's polytunnel.
FWIW the local grocer in my village is less than 100 yards from my house and sells loose stuff in brown paper bags.
Not that I'm claiming to be a saint. We get half our meals delivered from Hello Fresh, which is far from environmentally friendly.
Extra points if it is made from recycled carrier bags.
f that snarky bolx. It (tunnel) is over a decade old now, and with many repairs. But you have to start somewhere if you want to opt out of the madness. And It literally provides scores of people with toms, courgettes, peppers etc. 'Points' don't make food or less oacjaging - so will leave that element of poncense to de-tractors.
My grandfather never bought supermarket toms, not for any plastic-related shenags, but because he liked the taste of tomatoes. # grampsgreenhouse
I don't know if it was a novel comment but I'd not heard it before- Prince Charles said a while back that we base decisions on evidence, which is fine except when we're making decisions about things that can damage the world- by definition, if you wait for evidence, you're already doing the damage. So we're essentially testing the world to destruction. Testing to destruction's a great idea normally...
Prince Charles said a while back that we base decisions on evidence
Don't see it myself so much.
Consumers seem to base decisions primarily on convenience. Humans are naturally lazy gatherers like other primates. Low hanging fruit etc.
The public gets what the public wants - the public wants what the public gets.
Any marketing experience will tell you that strong branding + perceived trust + increased convenience + keen pricing will bag the biggest share of the market. A small minority of primates may demand different based on 'evidence'.
(Super)Marketing = making it easy for us to consume more and faster. Gain our 'trust' by making it all look uniform, spotless and neatly packaged. No germs or pesky 'dirt' (soil) on our produce. This makes the cheaper factory-grown/reared-pre-packaged stuff ironically more desirable than fresh + hand-picked. No hippie food for us. No poncey 'organic' rip-off rubbish. Give me a pack of [s]factory stuff[/s] cheap and spotless. At least then I know I'm getting the 'real thing' not some rip-off nonsense which is the same (sic) product with a poncey price tag. I'd prefer so much cheap stuff I get to gorge self and still have leftovers to throw away!
OTOH - regarding supermarket's own brands:
'These are Huntingford Fayre Pork Pies'
What are those?
'Huntingford Fayre'
'Oh'
'Yes, not the cheap supermarket branded ones'
'Where did you buy them?'
'The supermarket'. And they were only £1. And they're 'Huntingford Fayres!'
'Yes, but what is 'Huntingf.... oh forget it'
'Evidence' doesn't hardly come into it for the average consumer. The average shopper wants it cheapest, easiest, quickest and cleanest. IMO. How do we know this? Because this is how the majority of food is produced, packaged and sold.
Mushrooms are my particular hate, the plastic box weighs more than the produce.
It is greed, the packaging is there to protect profits not for customer convienience.
Greed tbh is the root of most human faults.
I used to think plastic was ok because it can be recycled but recently I've been concerned about stories of plastic nurdles being found on beaches etc, and microfibres being released from synthetic clothing such as fleeces.
I totally agree we need to stop over-packaging things.
I also wonder if there could be some clampdown on the tons of useless plastic tat being produced, such as rubbishy plastic toys in kids' takeaway meals. The type of thing that is played with for 30 seconds and discarded.
Plastic, or most plastics can be recycled...the problem is some is not because people can't be bothered to do it. My wife is terrible, i'm forever pulling stuff out of the bin that should have gone in the recycle bin, she gets it but just seems to put convenience ahead of what I believe to be everybody's responsibility in this day and age. And the yoof's of today who we're supposed to be doing all the environmentally responsible stuff for so they can inherit the planet in half decent shape don't seem to care. The number of times I see a Vauxhall Corsa 'halfords special' at a junction with a cloud of smoke bellowing out of it followed by a full on mcdonald's bag full of the cartons and everything being tossed out of the window then that is pretty depressing. Then I travel to other countries and you think why do we even bother!
But the trend is to use more plastic not less. The bike industry is a classic. People are bending over backwarwads to replace their perfectly recyclable metal bike for environmentally irresponsible carbon one all in order to save the weight of a big poo.
We've got 3 bins in the kitchen (Green, Non-recyclable and plastic) and 8 in the utility (glass x2, paper, metal, cardboard, cartons (plasticized card basically), plastic, non-recyclable).
Our "non-recycling" bin outside is usually only 20-30% full when it's collected once a fortnight.
Green bin is also only 25% full.
That's for a family of 4.
The rest we take to the local recycling place when we are a) passing or b) going shopping.
Fines for people who put recyclables in the non-recycling bin as well.
AFAIK, as a country, we import waste to recycle.
Oh, the non-recyclable-but-burnable waste goes to a BioMass plant in the next town to provide heat/power to the local area........ That also burns waste from the logging industry.
The whole thing isn't particularly hard to do TBH. Just need to political will to do it.
Even people in tiny flats have recycling facilities, usually in the basement or not far from the flat (the flat we lived in when we emigrated had one recycling centre on the way to the nearest bus stop and another on the way to the local shops.
Oh, yeah, plastic shopping bags cost about 20 pence...... we don't use many. Maybe one a week.
My stepdaughter recently explained that she doesn't have a cover to protect her new iPhone because the covers can't be recycled.
She gets a new phone every year, or sooner if she drops it.
Madness.
There's something very wrong when a bunch of bananas in a plastic bag cost less than a loose bunch!
The world is going madder than me... And that's saying something.
I was at a friends last night, they were showing off their new kitchen, “look at this built in recycling bin.. it was £300!!” it did look very nice but on closer inpection all the sections contained mix waste.
No actual recycling was happening. It was soon closed when I started sorting though it.
AFAIK, as a country, we import waste to recycle.
Very wrong sadly. We ship thousands and thousands of tonnes of low grade waste across the world to be dealt with in countries with less attentive pollution prevention laws to deal with.
China has recently decided it no longer wishes to be the world’s rubbish tip and is banning the import of low grade waste.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1C30GR ]Reuters: Waste mountains waiting for export[/url]
A number of our modern waste recycling facilities were taken down as they were unprofitable against just shipping it abroad. I await to see which country decides the profits of the 1st world’s waste are way more important than their people’s health. Somewhere in Africa is a good bet. 😥
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[quote="pictonroad"]Very wrong sadly.
Would have thought that it was pretty bloody clear from the rest of my post that i wasn't in the UK.
Would have thought that it was pretty bloody clear from the rest of my post that i wasn't in the UK.
it wasn't at all clear
Really?
Logging industry?
BioMass plants/Communal CHP?
More than one recycling centre within easy striking distance?
The whole thing isn't particularly hard to do TBH. Just need to political will to do it.
20 pence for a plastic bag (aren't they 5 pence in the UK now?)
Anyway, no, not in the UK, yes, we import waste.
Moving from plastic to paper bags is madness. Paper bags barely last one use and paper is not remotely environmentally friendly either in it's process or the amount of fibers it chucks into the air.
As for packaged fruit and veg a lot of it is for improving the shelf life of the food. Whether you think that's a good a or bad thing for the environment I'm not sure.
One of the biggest improvements in reduced use of plastics of late in the UK, has been the carrier bag charge.
the UK isn't as backwards as some might think - although many of its residents might be!
for instance in Bristol -
we have multiple recycling bins
main bin is collected fortnightly and usually has very little in it
from my house I can walk to several recycling spots
there are various small biomass / waste incineration plants nearby with more planned. Although looking at it, a lot of the planned ones that hit the headlines over the last few years never actually came to fruition so there aren't as many as I thought. There are biomass plants further north tho.
plastic bags are 10p I think but we don't really buy them.
it was probably your reference to things costing 20p that threw me 😉
Would have thought that it was pretty bloody clear from the rest of my post that i wasn't in the UK.
Calm down dear, my error, anyway, the information I commented on is still pertinent.
The public gets what the public wants - the public wants what the public gets.
It does. Which is why you need legislators with balls, and preferably not subject to the whims of a dim electorate (one reason I'm pro EU).
In the office in which I currently work, there are probably 1000 or 1500 people. There are two coffee places, each of which is churning out paper cups, probably a couple of thousand a day. There are recycling bins around the place but they don't accept paper cups.
The management should force the coffee shops to not give out paper cups and only sell coffee in re-usable cups provided by the customer. Within a few weeks every coffee starved employee would've brought their own mug.
In the old days when people made their own beverages in the staff kitchen this is what everyone did, and didn't think twice. There was a stash of company mugs for visitors.
Surely plastics themselves aren't the problem...
More the fact that since we live in an oil dominated society, the vast majority of plastics are oil based.
If the oil industry didn't have such vast lobbying power (no doubt along with the economic convenience of existing production facilities), perhaps we'd see more immediate adoption of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic ]Bioplastics[/url].
[url= http://www.theinertia.com/environment/this-icelandic-student-might-have-just-solved-the-global-plastic-problem/ ]There's a clever Icelandic dude who has used algae[/url]:
a design student named Ari Jonsson entered in a design festival in Reykjavik, Iceland. He brought something with him that has the potential to change the world. It’s very simple: a bottle of water. But not just any bottle of water… Jonsson’s design holds its shape while there’s water in it. When it’s empty, it begins to decompose.
Globally, we use 500 billion plastic bags every year, and every single piece of that plastic takes anywhere from 400 to 1000 years to decompose. Of all the trash on the surface of the ocean, some 90% of it is composed of plastic. And to really blow your mind, think about this: except for the small percentage of plastic that’s been burned, every single piece of plastic ever made is still floating around somewhere. That drinking straw you used yesterday for less than a minute? That’ll be around for the next half-century.
Edit with [url= https://www.sciencealert.com/this-biodegradable-algae-based-water-bottle-breaks-down-when-it-s-empty ]bonus link[/url] for choice quoteability:
"I can't claim that this is the perfect solution for our problem with plastic bottles," said Jónsson. "But it's a start and an idea that hopefully helps us to look at new ways to solve the problem… Switching to reusable bottles is also great, but that will have its pros and cons, just like my project, the more ways we can tackle this issue the better."
Glass bottles ... recyclable
The glass collected by our local council is ground up to make aggregate for building new roads...
Prince Charles said a while back that we base decisions on evidence
Prince Charles, the massive fan of homeopathy?
Malvern Rider - MemberConsumers seem to base decisions primarily on convenience. Humans are naturally lazy gatherers like other primates. Low hanging fruit etc.
Fair comment, he was meaning the global we- governments and corporations- rather than the individual. The point is, people dispute climate science or similiar and we get very tied up in proving the point, where actually the consequences are such, that we shouldn't expect or require 100% or 75% proof. If anything the burden should be on the polluter or regulator to prove beyond any doubt that it's safe.
If you were going to jump off a cliff you wouldn't settle for the water probably being deep enough, so when we're planning emissions targets and plastics reduction and the like we shouldn't settle for it's probably fine. And we definitely wouldn't jump off the cliff to see what happens.
It actually made me think about it a fair bit... I do get dragged into fighting deniers (or genuine skeptics) with facts and it lets the entire argument become very dry and technical and ignorable, and disputable. It'd make more sense to reposition the entire debate and get away from "do it unless you know for sure it's damaging"
miketually - MemberPrince Charles, the massive fan of homeopathy?
Even an inbred out of touch overprivileged clock is right twice a day
Wasn't there a thing a while ago that dishwashers used less water/energy than washing by hand?
This was based on research that compared a dishwasher loaded up to the maximum capacity as per the design, with people washing up by hand under a running tap. Not very representative of UK practice...............
What are the chances...
just got a phone call from Greenpeace about Coca-Cola and how they are one of the largest contributors to the global plastic problem...
By some strange twist of fate, I've recently been doing a bit of research into a somewhat questionable investment bank called [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_%26_Company ]Allen & Company[/url].
Turns out that long time president of Allen & Company (albeit now run by his son), [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Allen_Jr. ]Herbert Allen Jr[/url] has been on the board of directors of Coca-Cola since 1982, when he sold Columbia Pictures to Coca-Cola.
Worth bearing in mind that [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tenet ]George Tenet[/url] ex head of the CIA who was in charge of intelligence throughout the period before 9/11 and during the build up and execution of the resource rich invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq works for Allen & Company.
May go some way to explaining the economic ties between the oil and plastics industries...
Greenpeace's solution of deposit refundable bottles, just like in the old days of Corona and Irn-Bru seems a pretty straightforward fix, without needing to dabble too far in R&D.
Surely sustainable and biodegradable Bioplastics are the long term solution though.
Already got deposits on plastic bottles here. Have had for years, longer than i've been here anyway.
That reminds me of a funny incident in Lidl in Bourg St Maurice when I was out there for the summer.
A Scandinavian sounding family were behind me in the queue, with a massive sack of plastic bottles; just as I'd paid and was packing my stuff, they tried asking the cashier how they got their deposit back... she looked totally disgusted and bemused and turned to me, hoping I could explain what was going on; I did my best to explain, then she, with typical gallic flair guffawed 'poubelle'... I stifled my laugh and left giggling to myself.
Whilst it was funny at the time, in a way it's a perfect illustration of how we can be trained into habits on both sides of the equation.
Along with the environmental benefits, deposits on bottles can also have social benefits; I remember when I was in Central America, entrepreneurial folk (kids and adults) would go around collecting bottles which had been discarded, and ask you for your bottle when you finished.
So some of us in the first world are a bit concerned - that means very little will happen for a very long time.
Meanwhile in the rest of the world, where there is a massive plastic pollution problem, they have other things to worry about.
Then, when/if the third world possibly develops into a consumer society, pollution will increase even more.
Basically the root cause is greedy lazy people and we keep breeding.
We are witnessing first hand the destruction of the environment.
This was based on research that compared a dishwasher loaded up to the maximum capacity as per the design, with people washing up by hand under a running tap. Not very representative of UK practice.........
Dishwasher uses about 10 litres of water.
Coincidentally, that's about the size of a sink.
No score draw, except, dishwasher more convenient.
There seem to be loads of people everywhere carrying bottles of water. Can't they just take a water bottle and fill it with tap water.
There are 2 canals by our house. Everytime I walk past there are bits of plastic floating slowly down to the locks, these bits will eventually end up in the ocean.
It's time to start shopping sensibly. You really don't need bananas, pineapples, avocados, onions etc in a covering, nature gave them a skin. Pop these items straight into the shopping receptical and off to the till.
Some people are more than lazy, they just couldn't give a toss and only think about themselves.
Education, education, education.
I overheard two people in my office talking about drinking enough water and one of them said she keeps a load of plastic bottles of water in the fridge because it's easier than getting a glass out of the cupboard and going to the tap...
I have a friend who spends a lot of time sailing in the caribbean, they found a huge area of floating plastic, mostly bags and plastic sheeting, several km long and going down 20m or something. They filmed it but I don't think it's online yet. Really horrendous. There's various other films about other areas of floating plastic in the sea online and various awareness campaigns by some big players including Red bull tv.
I think microfibers have been covered on this thread already but yeah we're eating quite a bit of plastic in seafood these days - they've even been found in animals in the rockal trough, nevermind coastal waters.
davidtaylforth - Member
It would only take the introduction of some simple legislation.
A ban on breeders would be a good start. Let the planet recover for a bit
Yup this.
ton - Member
never. same as anything that threatens wildlife/the planet/ecosystems.humans are greedy, as long as there are humans, we are ****.
And this.
manlikegregonabike - Member
I don't understand why everything isn't in cardboard or paper yet?
Simply put, weight.
After visiting Munich I was pretty impressed by their system - this was 10+ years ago:
They had the standard number of bins: glass, paper, plastics etc, and one for non-recyclables.
Your non-recyclables were weighed automatically by the truck, and the amount logged against your account. You get an allowance each year - above which you have to pay per KG of non-recyclables that you throw away.
Obviously we'd struggle with this in the UK - you'd get people fly-tipping, or try to put things in other peoples bins, but it would start to change people behavior, make them understand that there IS a tangible cost associated with sending things to landfill, and encourage them to choose products with recyclable packaging (and then actually recycle it).
Unless you are going to legislate at the manufacturer/retailer level (which I believe we should), you have to introduce an incentive for the consumer to drive market forces - demand products that don't come without the bare minimum packaging.
The galling thing is the solutions are out there - have been for years. We just need the political will to put them into practice.
I live in Munich and am not aware of anyone's rubbish being weighed 😕 🙄
There is a deposit on all bottles, be they glass, reusable plastic or one-way plastic. Plastic bottles have a higher deposit.
You can leave all your empties after a party by the river knowing full well that some poor homeless or industrious pensioner will have collected them by the time the sun is up.
Plastic carrier bags are not given away and cost about 20-30 cents. I'm not 100% sure what they cost as we always take our own. Just about everybody does.
When I first came to Germany I was initially really confused by the collection of bins under the kitchen sink.
There is noticeably less litter in Germany compared to the UK. The UK is generally better than Spain or southern Italy.
ghostlymachine - Member
We've got 3 bins in the kitchen (Green, Non-recyclable and plastic) and 8 in the utility (glass x2, paper, metal, cardboard, cartons (plasticized card basically), plastic, non-recyclable).
Our "non-recycling" bin outside is usually only 20-30% full when it's collected once a fortnight.
Green bin is also only 25% full.
That's for a family of 4.
The rest we take to the local recycling place when we are a) passing or b) going shopping.Fines for people who put recyclables in the non-recycling bin as well.
AFAIK, as a country, we import waste to recycle.
Oh, the non-recyclable-but-burnable waste goes to a BioMass plant in the next town to provide heat/power to the local area........ That also burns waste from the logging industry.
The whole thing isn't particularly hard to do TBH. Just need to political will to do it.
Even people in tiny flats have recycling facilities, usually in the basement or not far from the flat (the flat we lived in when we emigrated had one recycling centre on the way to the nearest bus stop and another on the way to the local shops.
Oh, yeah, plastic shopping bags cost about 20 pence...... we don't use many. Maybe one a week.
Do you also live in Germany? 😉
So expanding on this a bit:
Surely plastics themselves aren't the problem...More the fact that since we live in an oil dominated society, the vast majority of plastics are oil based.
If the oil industry didn't have such vast lobbying power (no doubt along with the economic convenience of existing production facilities), perhaps we'd see more immediate adoption of Bioplastics.
Turns out that in addition to the 'spooky' links between long time director of Coca-Cola Herbert Allen Jr and ex CIA head George Tenent, there's also another glaring conflict of interest closer to home...
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Manzoni ]John Manzoni[/url] [b]Chief Executive of Her Majesty's Civil Service and Permanent Secretary of the Cabinet Office[/b] had a high level career in the oil industry for almost 30 years, ([b]Manzoni was Chief Executive for Refining & Marketing at BP[/b] at the time of the Texas City Refinery explosion in 2005)...
In February 2014, Manzoni joined the British Civil Service in a senior role as Chief Executive of the Major Projects Authority, a role under the remit of the Cabinet Office.[10] [b]His former BP boss John Browne, Baron Browne of Madingley, who had also left BP in 2007 and to whom Manzoni had been second-in-command, sat on Manzoni's appointment panel.[/b]
But what does this have to do with plastic?
As of 2015, Manzoni continues to be a non-executive director for SABMiller, for which he is paid £100,000 a year.
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller ]SABMiller[/url]
was the world's second-largest brewer measured by revenues (after Anheuser-Busch InBev) and was also [b]a major bottler of Coca-Cola[/b]. Its brands included Fosters, Miller, and Pilsner Urquell.[2] It operated in 80 countries worldwide and in 2009 sold around 21 billion litres of beverages.
SAB Miller also owned over 150 market-leading local brands. [b]The company was one of the world’s largest Coca-Cola bottlers and had carbonated soft-drink bottling operations in 14 markets. These were subsequently owned by the new Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV entity which is also a PepsiCo bottler.[/b] In December 2016, Coca Cola Co. bought the Coca Cola operations in Africa and in two Central American countries. The deal requires regulatory approval and should close by the end of 2017.
Nothing to see here, as if kids need a planet anyhoo...
I have a friend who spends a lot of time sailing in the caribbean, they found a huge area of floating plastic, mostly bags and plastic sheeting, several km long and going down 20m or something. They filmed it but I don't think it's online yet. Really horrendous.
Saw something the same on FB today, & yes it is horrendous.
Most supermarket veg is available loose, its all the 'premium' or organic stuff thats wrapped as it needs to be distinguished from loose veg at the tills. So we have to buy the standard stuff to reduce demand. Unfortunately, the 'ugly' veg is often bagged so it can be distinguished as budget, if it were loose everyone would pick out the best and leave all the misshapen veg in the tray.
I did have a bit of a stubborn moment last time when I couldn't find any mangetout/sugarsnap/green beans etc not only not wrapped, but also all from Egypt.
I worked in injection moulding & blow-moulding factory some years ago. To start I was always thinking surely we've made enough ****ing buckets by now? Got numb to it after a while. Made me dead inside.