[Closed] When was the "us and them" split made?

First house was £53k

My first house was £250k bought ten years ago. It's more or less worth that now. My mate bought in 2000 or so and doubled his money I think. House he then moved into around the same time as we bought ours is now worth around double what he paid afaik.

I'm 41 now and one bedroomed flats are now £120k round here, which is Cardiff.

loads of data here with which to construct whichever story makes one feel better about oneself.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5568/housing/uk-house-price-affordability/

it was when house prices massively shot up after 2000.

london and south east, properties are expensive, but not definitely 'too' expensive - it is simply that properties now take two full time salaries to afford, and need to be in cheaper/crappier areas, and will be smaller than the previous generation. Take a pair of teacher's salaries (as an example), £60k with a 4.5x multiplier will buy a £300k house with a 10% deposit. Even in most parts of the southeast, that'll get you an ex-council house. Years ago the same people would have probably been able to get a much better place.

there was no 'split' - properties are just getting gradually more and more expensive as time goes on. I suspect lifestyle is more a misnomer than anything else - does an extra £10 a month over 2 years (for a posh iphone vs a generic android) really make much of a difference?

^ fascinating link Stoner.

(a failed property business means I am both a capitalist pig landlord, personally and solely responsible for the property issues we face apparently, and a mid-40's family of 5 struggling in a three bed house I can just about afford)

Take a pair of teacher's salaries (as an example), £60k

How many teachers earn £60k? How long does it take to get to that level?

At 43, I'm starting to worry if I/we will ever get on the housing ladder, if we do it will be part rent part buy, but how are we going to pay the rent in ~25 years when we retire?

What really gets my goat is I've paid ~£70k over the last ~10.5 years for the privilege of living in the same rented accommodation! 👿

I think our only hope, as grim a thought as it may be, is that inheritance comes to our long term rescue.

Neither Mrsgoat or I are capable of working full time hours, but thankfully my job pays relatively decent money for a 3-day week contract, plus Mrsgoat seems hopeful of getting a better position in her workplace with better pay. The question is, will she find doing more hours (days) too mentally exhausting? I've been there in my last job, got the t-shirt, it left with with absolutely nothing to give after work or on my days off.

molgrips - Member

How many teachers earn £60k? How long does it take to get to that level?

'ave another go...

Take a [b]pair[/b] of teacher's salaries (as an example), £60k

So £30k[b] each.[/b]

We're all good at maths round ere

How many teachers earn £60k? How long does it take to get to that level?

Not many, but heaps earn £30k (which I think is what he was getting at).

My house might be worth a smidge more than we paid for it in 2004, but not a lot. For my age I'm in a decent position housing wise, but struggling financially at the mo, wife doesn't work so household income is just over £30k for a family of 4. If my mortgage was similar to my peers then we'd be in the doodoo.

No tax credits for me, I earn too much apparently. Doesn't matter than I can't afford the train to work any more.

I think Molgrips needs one of those teachers.

I was lucky and bought my house when property prices were still sensible, I took a decison to do it at a young age and pleased I did.

fascinating link Stoner.

The issue isn't affordability of mortgage payments, it's the ease of saving a deposit - which is a function of deposit absolute value, rent levels and incomes. That stat isn't on that page.

I think Molgrips needs one of those teachers.

[img] [/img]

Rightmove tells me there are 595 properties for sale under £90k near me, that'll give you a £465/mo/25yr mortgage with a small deposit. Not London though.

That stat isn't on that page.

Agreed.

It echoes much of my thought - that some of my peers are there through inherited deposits and reduced payments, not through the usual save/pay/pay/pay/pay again route...

loads of data here with which to construct whichever story makes one feel better about oneself.

Well having just reviewed all that data, I am now pretty convinced I am the messiah and you should all bow down at my feet...

Now I see people in mid twenties seemingly never going to be able to afford a house even on decent wages. Is that really true or is it mostly around London or because they won't give up luxuries to save for a deposit (like people of my parents generation had to!).

My sister in law has significant savings for a mortgage, but is still at the bottom of the ladder. She wants a one-bed flat, but round where she is (Surrey) she's looking at £200k+ for anything not with a significant issue, which is a joke.

How many teachers earn £60k? How long does it take to get to that level?

A pair = 2 x £30k

Edit: beaten to it.

if you're 40+, you're probably the right side of the pulled-up drawbridge.

if you're 30-, you're buggered, you'll be renting till you die (unless you have helpful parents)

i'm trying to persuade my in-laws to let us (build and) live in a cabin in their garden... (i'm 38)

Its definitely a problem, and whilst the prices in the SE are certainly crazy they are somewhat offset by equally crazy wages.

Up here, depending on what field they get a job in, a fresh graduate may be looking at a wage of £18-20k is probably looking at £100-£120k to buy a house.
= looking for a minimum of a £5k deposit and a fairly risky £560pcm 95% mortgage.
More realistically a £15k deposit is needed to get a better deal and reduce the LTV.

Now here's the key part.
Our imaginary £18-20k graduate has a take home of ~£1350pcm
If staying at home with parents and paying minimal rent, its pretty easy to put aside £500pcm and you've got your deposit in 3yrs, and still leave plenty left over for car, food, and a decent quality of life.
However if you are already renting a place at close enough £500pcm then you've got no chance of also saving at £500pcm, and you are looking at more like 5-10yrs to get a deposit together.

And the really harsh bit, is house prices are generally still appreciating, so unless you can save quite quickly, your deposit may be growing each month but you aren't actually getting any closer to home ownership

Inheritance is somethign to consider.

Home ownership has been increasing since the 50s. So as more of my parents' generation die and leave houses, that will enable even higher prices as deposit lump sums become available - to those whose parents could afford to buy. This could further drive inequality, couldn't it?

All these people renting - they are paying money to private individuals, mostly, who own houses they don't live in. So they are also creating bit fat piles of assets, that will make it really easy for their kids to buy houses or possibly not even work at all. All the while keeping those houses out of the hands of the poorer end of society.

I can't see anything other than spiralling inequality in the long run.

I was wondering when did the split occur? I am 40 and now own a £200k house (with a £465 mortgage) but have never earns more than £26k. First house was £53k, paid £28k of that off and sold for £110k. I might have been one of the last people to get a 100% mortgage as we bought as the house prices were rising dramatically.

I'm a similar age but much worse position financially, despite earning more, because i didn't buy a house before the rise!

I had a few redundancies, and ended up going back to uni to retrain. I still managed to save up a deposit, but in hindsight I'd have been far better off putting it all the property market even if i'd have rented out after the redundancies.

Lots of friends bought earlier, but they all had significant parental assistance.

I think the start of the increases occurred after the interest rates were dropped in 2001.

Also took me a while to find someone to buy a house with 😥

If staying at home with parents and paying minimal rent,

I'm 46 and I moved back in with my parents after Uni to save for a deposit. Meant I could save a lot more in a shorter time. I put down a £16k deposit on a £91k house 20 years ago. Now worth over £500k.

I'm 46 and I moved back in with my parents to save for a deposit.

Naff all work for a Physics graduate in rural Herefordshire. Point is that what works for some isn't possible for everyone.

Yay for living in Oxfordshire where house prices are on average more than 6 times the amount the stated pair of teachers earns.

I bought my first place in 1996 (I think) for £42,500 (2 bed terrace) as a single bloke aged 27 years with zero help from my parents (they were in a pretty dire financial position themselves so they just helped with giving time to clean/decorate my new place) and the value remained static for several years then suddenly shot up. Houses on that street now sell for £230k and I'd struggle to get a mortgage at all if I was starting from scratch despite being a high rate tax payer. I think we'd struggle to get a mortgage even if I included my wife's earnings.

I would hate to be in the position most young people find themselves in right now.

Yay for living in Oxfordshire where house prices are on average more than 6 times the amount the stated pair of teachers earns.

Yep, London, Cambridge and Oxford all top the unaffordability league based on average income. Although all three cities have plenty of people on large salaries who can afford to buy.

I can remember when it was possible to buy houses in Southampton for <£60k around 1995, now you might be lucky to find a flat for ~£130k and a house for <£150k.

Since 2006, the rent on our current place has grown from £510pcm to £635pcm, while the the original landlord and then the son that inherited it are doing far too little to maintain this flat's dated 1960's build. Still no shower; laughable double glazing that lets a gale through when the bitter easterly wind blows; far too few electric sockets for modern living; storage heaters that consume electricity outside Economy7 times etc.

But if we moved rental properties, we would have to downsize, similar space buildings in decent condition are >£700pcm. We couldn't afford that rise and it would definitely prevent us from slowly building any deposit through HTB ISAs.

ahwiles - Member
if you're 40+, you're probably the right side of the pulled-up drawbridge.

if you're 30-, you're buggered, you'll be renting till you die (unless you have helpful parents)

i'm trying to persuade my in-laws to let us (build and) live in a cabin in their garden... (i'm 38)

And in my case if you're 33 you bought your first starter flat a year before the crash then lost £30K when you had to sell a few years later. Gave us rather a dry bumming when we came to get a mortgage to buy a family home. 😀

I'm early 30s, bought a house 4 years ago. One of the first of my friends, although quite a few have done it in the interim.

My friends are split into

never going to be able to afford a house even on decent wages. London plays a huge part here - some of them plan to move when work allows it.

won't give up luxuries - no idea how to save.

first house in 1982, 30k (2 bed flat, coast, Hampshire, in a bleeding retirement zone with a nightclub ???), I actually had to visit the building soc manager with last 3 months salary slips, it wasn't funny when the mega interest period came along 14/15% I think ...........

Yep, London, Cambridge and Oxford all top the unaffordability league based on average income. Although all three cities have plenty of people on large salaries who can afford to buy.

Those stats normally include brighton and are somewhat skewed - the adult populate in all of those (outside london) includes a huge number of both students and recent graduates, none of whom tend to earn much money, but most of whom are willing to pay significant amounts of rent for a single room, which pushes the floor of the prices up. I'm not saying that they aren't expensive, but I'm not sure the average earnings is necessarily comparing like with like

Oxford's actually so ####ed we're struggling to get peasants to come in and do the manual jobs... like teaching and nursing as they simply can't afford to be here.

It's horrible isn't it? I live in the southeast - and someone has to work there...

Yep, my partner and I are fine and sorted. But we have kids aged 20,17, 15 and 15.

Mine will have some dosh from relatoves who have popped their clogs at convenient times. Hers might do, eventually... but despite them all having good earning prospects - I am not sure how this is going to work out, and kids having to rely on inheritance sucks.

We are told there are not enough new houses being built, but also that there are lots of empty houses, but perhaps not in the right places, and there seems little central will to alter things to push industry and tech start-ups to base themselves in lower cost areas. But the Market really is not going to sort this out.

When interest rates go down, loan multiples go up, money supply and house prices and then indebtedness goes up. Round and round goes the bloody great wheel. 👿

if you're 40+, you're probably the right side of the pulled-up drawbridge.
if you're 30-, you're buggered, you'll be renting till you die (unless you have helpful parents)

Agree with this, I'm 36 and amongst friends it depends on whether life circumstances (e.g. met partner) were right round about 2001

I remember when I was younger, a typical mortgage was 3.5x a single salary (conventional wisdom was that you shouldn't borrow more than this). So your £30k salary nets you a £105k mortgage. I hope you like living in the less salubrious end of Burnley.

There was a recent article, (maybe Guardian long read?), that disputed the notion that it is the hardest it has ever been to buy a flat/house. When you look at the wider view such as cost of living, salaries, savings, interest rates, lifestyle etc.
It is difficult now but things were worse in the 70s and the late 80s when rampant interest rates, low wages and so on were commonplace.

People who bought pre early 2000s and now.

Boomers and the lucky / smart of generation X&Y on one side - the unlucky, daft X&Y and Millennials on the other.

It won't last forever though, all markets self-correct in the end, the Banks are almost ready for a price correction, not sure all consumers are - but there always has to be a loser and the 'haves' have been on the winning side for very, very long time at everyone else’s expense.

midlifecrashes - Member

Rightmove tells me there are 595 properties for sale under £90k near me, that'll give you a £465/mo/25yr mortgage with a small deposit.

😆

£90k will get me a small plot of land with planning permission, or a two bed caravan in a trailer park.

Ever so glad I moved away from the South East London to Devon.

Victorian 3.5 bed terraced 10 minutes from the University/town for 175 in Plymouth. 20mins to the nearest beach or Dartmoor......

Job market is not great though admittedly

Job market is not great though admittedly

I think this is the key issue. Not enough investment outside the south east? Seems to be lots of affordable houses in other parts of the country.

£90k will get me a small plot of land with planning permission, or a two bed caravan in a trailer park.

Bit cheaper here - £90k gets you a 1 bed flat. Either ex-council in a dystopian estate or half a converted 2 up 2 down terrace house.

The price of housing in the Southeast reflects the strength of the Jobs market there, and that's it really...

Yet we'd [b]all[/b]be better off if jobs shifted elsewhere and souh east house prices went down, except for a few people who live in the South East [i]and[/i] have no kids [i]and [/i]are going to downsize to use their property riches as a pension.

newrobdob - Member

I was wondering when did the split occur? <snip> First house was £53k, paid £28k of that off and sold for £110k. I might have been one of the last people to get a 100% mortgage

That's when the split occurred.

It won't last forever though, all markets self-correct in the end

As has been stated repeatedly over the years though, it isn't a functioning market. And hasn't been for deacades. Governments constantly meddle in it for short term political expediency. From flogging cut price council homes in the 80's (to buy votes) through to the frankly insane Help to Buy scheme introduced by Osbourne (to buy votes)

IMO, I think you'll find the 'us & them' has just been re-established, except now the percentage of ownership has increased markedly from pre 80's.

Which makes the lenders very happy as they now technically own much more capital/assets, earning interest ( read rent) on long term loans and taking very little liability and responsibility for the maintenance and upkeep, leaving that to the 'owners' ( read tenants - until,of course the debt is fully paid).

To summarise @stoats and @pjay 😉

Just looked at where we used to live in N. Wales. We lived in a terrace of slate miners' cottages right next to a main road. Even for the area they were nothing special.

1999: £32k
2001: £41k
2002: £43k
2017: £90k

Apparently the average for a terraced house in that village is £122k.

Looking round us and up into The Dales - average price is £300k - £360k. These prices have a social impact. There's no way a young couple can afford to buy a property given that most jobs in the area are agriculture/quarrying/tourism based. Is it any wonder that local schools are getting shut down due to lack of pupils. Yet attempts to provide "local" housing are met with resistance, primarily from those who can afford the current prices.

I remember when I was younger, a typical mortgage was 3.5x a single salary (conventional wisdom was that you shouldn't borrow more than this). So your £30k salary nets you a £105k mortgage. I hope you like living in the less salubrious end of Burnley.

and with interest rates at 11%, that's possibly a sensible figure. When they're <1%, what is the point in making a high earner move houses several times (in order to get to the house they want) rather than allowing them to borrow what is (to them) an affordable sum of money? static earning multiples are a pretty hopeless tool as they don't take into consideration number of dependents, costs, or overall level of earning (bringing up a kid on £10k takes a lot more of your take-home income than bringing one up if you earn £100k). The graphs on the first page show that payments as a % of income are at their lowest rate since 1988..

208k will get you a rather nice (if I do say so myself) 3 bed detached corner plot with a garage in the grim midlands. It's got riding from the door as well...

Granted I couldn't have afforded it by myself or without help from parents so we've actually been very lucky. Saying that, friends that are more sensible with money have managed to save for a deposit (although I'm mainly friends with engineers so wages tend to be higher)

It won't last forever though, all markets self-correct in the end

Yes and no. This isn't a simple supply/demand system, because there are different aspects to demand.

We might end up with houses being affordable to private landlords but not first time buyers; which would result in houses being a commodity subject to its own market driven by investors not homeowners. So again, rich people get even richer as this capital gets handed down to offspring, and rents can go up to the point where the poorer or younger people can just about afford to pay leaving them no spare money to save. And worse still, if say young professionals can only afford to rent and not buy, they will become trapped so when they finally die they have no capital to pass on to their grandkids who won't be able to get out of the trap.

Keeping people renting transfers money from the poor to the rich.

£90k will get me a small plot of land with planning permission, or a two bed caravan in a trailer park.

You'd get a 4 bed terraced house for that near me and enough change left over for a decent 2nd hand car. It wouldn't be anything fancy but in a safe area with good neighbours.

I think too many people get caught up in what other people would think of them when buying somewhere to live and overstretch to the point they have almost nothing left over.

I'd much rather live very comfortably in a modest house in a less desirable area than be upto my eyeballs in debt with not much spare for anything else.

I suppose the same goes for cars.

I've just resigned myself to living in footflaps' shed until I manage to kill off the family.

binners - Member

It won't last forever though, all markets self-correct in the end

As has been stated repeatedly over the years though, it isn't a functioning market. And hasn't been for deacades. Governments constantly meddle in it for short term political expediency. From flogging cut price council homes in the 80's (to buy votes) through to the frankly insane Help to Buy scheme introduced by Osbourne (to buy votes)

I have it on good authority that 1) the Banks are ready to absorb a reduction or hold in property prices on their balance sheets, 2) the number of Millennials and X&Ys in 'generation rent' along with concerned mortgage payers is passing the number of Boomers to make it politically viable to do it.

The recent easing of planning rules and large scale building projects represents the first cracks in post-credit crunch plan to protect prices.

It won't hopfully be a massive crash, it's unlikey (Brexit disaster aside) but the gap between income and prices will narrow and it will be by a lot.

I'd much rather live very comfortably in a modest house in a less desirable area than be upto my eyeballs in debt with not much spare for anything else.

What else do you do with your money though?

It's not just a case of trying to impress people, in the early 2000's it was one of the best investments you could have made. And the best thing is, it's mostly the banks money your investing, like a 10x mutiplier of your deposit.

I remember when I was younger, a typical mortgage was 3.5x a single salary (conventional wisdom was that you shouldn't borrow more than this)

That ratio was the max I could borrow in 97 IIRC.

I've just resigned myself to living in footflaps' shed until I manage to kill off the family.

I have 16 Lithuanians in there at the moment.......

My daughter is 25 and about 2 years into a career as an IT consultant. Late last year she changed job so that instead of being based in London she could base herself out of Edinburgh, with one of the main reasons being was that she can afford to buy a decent flat now (£110-130K or so) in Edinburgh but is years away from being able to do so in London (and even if she could it'd either be a shite area or really far out).

I think too many people get caught up in what other people would think of them when buying somewhere to live

If you live in an area with cheap housing, I suspect you haven't experienced what drives people to stretch themselves with house prices.

I don’t get the issue from my experience; I bought my first house with then girlfriend at 23 years old in 2010 for £135k. Salaries where £20k each. We then sold that for same price and bought second home for £186k on a joint salary 50k. We sold that 3 years later for £60k profit and bought our house now for £205k and spent £20k renovating – it’s now worth £300k with a mortgage of £200k on a joint salary of £70k. We haven’t been ‘lucky’ on house purchases – simply bought the right house in the right area and renovated it sensibly.

In my area – N.Wales and Chester house prices are certainly reachable and there’s still money to be made.

Nothing on rightmove for under £90k here, oh apart from a block of 3 garages for £65k and an old BT repeater station for £20k and Aylesbury is hardly leafy suburbia

I have 16 Lithuanians in there at the moment.......

Must try harder, I reckon you could house 30 Syrians at a push.

I have it on good authority that 1) the Banks are ready to absorb a reduction or hold in property prices on their balance sheets, 2) the number of Millennials and X&Ys in 'generation rent' along with concerned mortgage payers is passing the number of Boomers to make it politically viable to do it.

I'll believe it when I see it. Every single government has made similar noises. None have got even close to actually doing anything realistic about it. As with most things where politicians and bankers are concerned, don't listen to what they say, look at what they do.

It won't hopfully be a massive crash, it's unlikey (Brexit disaster aside) but the gap between income and prices will narrow and it will be by a lot.

Given there's no indication wages will rise meaningfully in the short-medium term, I don't think we can have one without the other.

I think the only thing that is likely to make houses affordable for first time buyers again is a rise in interest rates big enough to shaft people who are leveraged really hard on their existing mortgages, a la the 80s. However I don't think BoE will be willing/allowed by its political overlords to raise rates, even to counter the horrendous inflation we'll see as a result of Brexit.

EDIT: beaten to it by Binners, more or less.

Sometimes it is luck, "well timed" might be a better term: when I moved to our current area I was renting a flat at £300pcm as well as paying a small mortgage on our then current house. It wasn't a nice area so looked for something else, found a small terraced house for £34k, I'd got savings so put down a decent deposit and had a second mortgage of £115pcm.

We then moved to the area and bought our current house, sold the terraced house for £60k after just two years of owning it and basically paid off the mortgage on our current house. The sub-prime financial crisis started about six months later.

Edit: and when I went to the bank to use the proceeds to pay off the mortgage I got: "Ooh! You've a lot of spare equity. Do you want to take out a loan?"

It's not just a case of trying to impress people, in the early 2000's it was one of the best investments you could have made. And the best thing is, it's mostly the banks money your investing, like a 10x mutiplier of your deposit.

This, in the SE.

Housing in London is/was the 90's/00's replacement for the final salary pension. We've been very, very fortunate- especially since we left and bought elsewhere..

Had this thread before and as I pointed out Darlington in Durham is a great town with plenty of Jobs and good affordable housing on the East Coast Main line - however the person that was moaning didn't want to live in a "Darlington" they wanted trendy Leeds city centre for £2.50... there is loads of affordable houses in the UK just not in the South East

Irrespective of all of this^, it's a [i]total[/i] shitter on one salary 🙂

there is loads of affordable houses in the UK just not in the South East

Aye, it's grim daan saff!

I bought my first house with then girlfriend at 23 years old in 2010 for £135k. Salaries where £20k each

What if you don't both earn 20k? What if you're single?

You really can't see a problem?

To answer the OP, 1999 dot com bubble, investors got out and put money in housing, cheap credit and low interest is making many things boom in price as keeping money in the bank earning 1% is pretty pointless, witness silly prices for classic cars, bikes, art etc etc

What if you don't both earn 20k? What if you're single?

What if you're married with a partner who can't work, 2.4 kids and a spaniel?

That's the point I was alluding to (badly). Time was, one salary could raise a family. Now we've got a situation where both adults [b]have[/b] to work in order to keep a roof over their heads whilst maintaining a half decent standard of living.

I don't have kids, I don't know how you lot do it.

I don't know how you lot do it.

I sometimes wonder how (and have posted around this subject in the past). I earn decent money, my wife gets a small salary from my business and also works part time so between us our income (before tax) is around £80k.

We have a mortgage (£1k a month but 'own' around 65% of our current house) but no other debts (ie, no HP on cars etc) other than the usual household things yet every single month we are broke. Yes we get some nice things but are very careful with money (my wife shops at Primark/Sainsbury's etc for clothes, I use TK Maxx) and we do get to go away on holiday once a year. but that is never anything overly fancy.

However, many of the other parents at our girls' school rock up in expensive cars/4x4s, go to exotic locations for 5 star holidays (two, three and even four times a year) and all seem to be draped in expensive clothes and jewellery – and they all have nice houses and are spending loads on extensions/conversions etc. One parent recently posted on Facebook (about a week after returning from a 5 Star holiday in Mauritius) asking about recommendations for luxury breaks to Lapland for next Christmas.

I simply do not know how people* do it – are they all just banging it all on credit?

*However I do know that one family have an interest only mortgage which (to my mind) is utterly bonkers.

Sandwich - Member

Must try harder, I reckon you could house 30 Syrians at a push.

Under 16s or children? 🙂

Im 30.

3 bed semi in the greenbelt.

Set our goal and saved like **** for it

I did 18months adhoc taking all the work abroad I could get in equatorial guinea- Nigeria and holland working on the rig's.7-8 weeks at a time. I did another 3 years doing ad-hoc without the same urgency mind to get the money to renovate it and to pay it down to a comfortable monthly level. And have finally taken a position where I only work 6 months of the year to shift the balance back the other way.

I have several peers who are all similarly educated living near by who have all bought houses in a variety of methods. Some have grafted for a deposit like we did - others the bank of mum and dad and some are mortgaged to the eyeballs.

How ever being in a very expensive part of Scotland( compared to living in Dundee or Glasgow) I must say I don't know too many people who have not managed to get them selves a house IF they wanted one.

Equally Brother in law bought a nice 2 bed flat for less than half what our house cost - in Glasgow.

I'm not sure what I did is too different to the olden days. One of my older colleagues dad's bought his house after 2 years in south Georgia whaling !

Johndoe - interest only mortgage makes sense if it is far cheaper than renting and you are investing the extra elsewhere for greater return

Edit 80k PA and you are broke!

london and south east, properties are expensive, but not definitely 'too' expensive

[url= http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-39972246.html ]Personally i think oieo 380k for a 2 bed ex council flat in an area with a high crime rate is pricey, its not even in hipsterville.[/url]

interest only mortgage makes sense if it is far cheaper than renting and you are investing the extra elsewhere for greater return

Edit 80k PA and you are broke!

london and south east, properties are expensive, but not definitely 'too' expensive