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every year i play a bit of a lottery, and wait until im fairly sure the lovely sunshine has gone, and then fit them. i usually lose and end up driving around for a week on winters in blazing sunshine, or summers in pissing rain and cold.
my german colleagues tell me they just stick them on first week in october. what think you?
I had 4 x cross climates fitted on the hottest day of the year, good discount though…
To be fair winters in blazing sun is preferable to summers in the cold.
For most people that is - Unless of course your driving to the extreme of your vehicle's ability and getting squirm setting the lap record for the trip to tesco.
I'll swap them over when the temperature is routinely below 7. We ain't there yet.
Does this not depend on whether it's cold where you live, given that summer tyres can be A rated for wet grip?
All seasons.
Get them on at some point in October when I have a spare hour.
All seasons (Agilis Crossclimates) went on the van a couple of weeks back. They'll be staying on all year round so not much use to your decision making.
I was a bit surprised as to how quiet they are (compared to the previous tyres) considering how chunky they are (for road tyres)
Dont really have the weather to justify full winters where I live.
I really like winters for just cold and wet generally but I’m going to gamble leaving as late as possible this year. Need eneough tread left in them for a (fingers crossed) trip to the alps in Feb but as I’m probably selling the car after then don’t want to have to buy another set. So all in all we’re guaranteed loads of nov-jan snow here🙄😉
Just bought a new (play) bike with Hans Dampfs, are these winter tyres? Don't normally change my mountain bike tyres between seasons, I just tend to ride a different bike:
- Lightweight carbon full suss is for good weather or big days out in the hills where making progress over proper off-road terrain is priority.
- Singlespeed 27.5+ rigid bike for all year riding with the kids plus is brilliant when it's filthy.
My Cross bike is the only bike that I change tyres on it for winter slop. Fast rolling tyres in the winter and a set of wet/mud tyres ready to be installed for the winter which will probably be over the next week or so.
Edit:- Apologies, I thought this was a 'bike' tyre thread.
re all seasons, that is the correct answer, however when i bought the car it had horrible ditchfinders on it so i went straight to the tyre place for 4 nice new summer tyres, and only when i was driving home did i remember i should have got all seasons. i think i'll stick it out a couple of weeks yet as its not below 7. normally the first frost is first week in november.
Does this not depend on whether it’s cold where you live,
This.
I have full winters fitted all year.
When the current tyres are threadbare…but then I replace with the same tyre, so I may not be too helpful
In all of my 47 years on this planet I have never met or known anyone who has two sets of tyres for a motor vehicle. Is this really a thing?
Discovery has Pirelli Scorpion Zero All Seasons on - they'll be staying on until they wear out.
Hoping we get some snow this year to see how all the fancy automatic terrain response systems deal with it
I usually forget until the first icy day (usually in November). But ideally I'd put them on at some point in the next month.
In all of my 47 years on this planet I have never met or known anyone who has two sets of tyres for a motor vehicle. Is this really a thing?
Yeah, it's great. You should try it.
How fast are you lot driving that you require specific tyre choices for when it's cold? It's not bloody f1!
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain't exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
How fast are you lot driving that you require specific tyre choices for when it’s cold?
its not the going, its the stopping...
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain’t exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
would that be central belt or city bypass limits ?
the first frost of the year is always fun at our house watching those who have pushed it a bit long before getting their winter tires fitted waiting on the gritter before they can get up the hill to the main road......
not that they would have helped in the 9ft drifts we had last year ......(also in scotland where it is cold)
Probably end of the month for us.
The Germans say "October bis Oestern"
October til Easter - but there are insurance issues in the Fatherland about fitting winter tyres. They are brilliant on loose snow and hard pack snow. But as rubbish a summer tyres on black ice.
Winter tyres were great when I lived in Germany and Switzerland. My issue in the UK is that it very few people have winter tyres, so if you are able to stop really quickly and the people behind you can't ....
I have 2 sets of wheels/tyres for both my van and car!
Van I rarely swap these days as doesn’t get used much over winter and I now run ATs which cope ok on the odd days it is used.
Skoda car has full winters and I swap when the average temperature drops low enough for them to make a difference.
I’ll swap them over when the temperature is routinely below 7. We ain’t there yet.
Same understanding from me too. Cross over point is when the average temperature is regularly below 7.
My winter tyres also deal with rain much better than my summer tyres. So if you are going through a particularly wet patch that could influence your decision too.
In all of my 47 years on this planet I have never met or known anyone who has two sets of tyres for a motor vehicle. Is this really a thing?
Yes its a thing and has been for a while a now. Do you 100% need it ... No.
Depends on your situation, but I find even living in Hertfordshire there are benefits to having two sets of tyres.
I drive a sports car as my daily driver and I feel having two sets of tyres gives me best of best worlds. Fun and communicative feel in the summer and safety and confidence in the winter no matter what the conditions.
My van has one set of all season tyres, as the compromise of loss of sporty feel isn't something I care about in my van.
South Manchester and never bothered. That said, ice spikers are ready for the MTB's when needed. Will fit Snow Studs early to the commuter as I'm commuting on the canal and don't fancy icy cobbles without them.
Ditto the 7C thing. Norwegian recommendation is 1st November in the south, 16 November in the north.
as some others have said, CrossClimates all year round, and have done on last few cars, can't fault 'em. Scotland Central belt driving mainly with some trips further north and south a few times a year.
Previously it's been when commuting o'clock is regularly 7°C or colder. However, a recent vehicle change means the spare wheels and tyres no longer fit.
Think I might move the new car over to cross climates rather than swap wheels twice a year.
Stealth add. Vauxhall AstraH/Zafira B alloy wheels and winter tyres for sale. May fit other vehicles. South Yorkshire/NE Derbyshire area.
It's been around 7'C the past couple of mornings as my wife has left for work so I'll be changing the tyres on the car later this week I recon.
As soon as the morning/evening temperatures are below 7deg on a regular basis.
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain’t exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
Its one of the things unless you try you'll never know. A bit like tapered head tubes and through axles. I never thought my frame or forks were flexly until I demoed a bike with a stiffer front end and noticed the difference and improvement in performance.
Did it mean my old bike was instantly unsuitable for off road? ... No But now I was enlightened I didn't want to go back.
Most modern cars have high levels of steering and braking assistance and poor levels of feedback. While this makes the car very comfortable on bumpy roads or in traffic etc .. it does mean the driver is disconnected and can't get a feel for the conditions.
On my sports car which has very good feedback I can feel the tyres go plastic and not key into the road surface as well in colder temperatures. On frosty days I can feel a slight pushing of the front end and a delay in initial turn in. This is felt while driving normally round town in residential areas below 30mph.
Driving the sports car in the winter doesn't make the car unsafe (even the summer tyres are good road tyres not silly semi slicks) but the winter tyres just give me more confidence and peace of mind, even when just pottering about and popping to the supermarket to get some groceries.
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain’t exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
Most of us don't need "dedicated" winter tyres, but decent all-season tyres are a much better compromise than using summer tyres all year round.
Last winter I got them swapped in early to mid October and the guy who stores them and swaps them for us said it wasn’t time yet. However I knew it was the last winter I would get out of them so thought may as well have them on longer and save the tread on the summer tyres.
Need to buy some new winters but can’t remember the dimensions of the steel rims they are on. Just know it’s a smaller rim than the alloys the summers are in! D’oh!
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain’t exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
For the last decade my commute as been either south shore of Loch Tay singletrack road (no sun at all, no gritting etc) or all around Scotland including Highlands and Borders, year around, visiting schools and nurseries. As others have said, under 7*c and wet they are better at stopping and cornering. They have also got me out of trouble a few times - including these days our road which is a hill at each end, shaded from sun and often sheet ice or slippery. Both cars wear all seasons.
I have Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons fitted to my car. I've driven to work (2wd Octavia) with side streets covered in snow then at work driven the 4wd Octavia Scout. The 2wd car with all seasons was far better.
During the Beast From The East it was the only car I saw getting out our estate for about 2 weeks. Managed to go through unplowed snow above front valance level.
I work shifts so now and then am on roads which haven't been treated and when daily temps are at their lowest. In central Scotland we can be below 7C on some days for 8 months of the year.a
Obviously 99% of the time it makes no difference. If I had to emergency stop on cold wet roads it would matter though. Summers are a quarter longer stopping distance at 2c wet braking.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Summer-All-Season-and-Winter-Tyres-Tested-at-0c-15c.htm
If they get me to work once or twice when I wouldn't have got there or stop on damaging slide onto a kerb once they have paid for themselves as the premium over summer tyres is only around £20 a tyre.
Wouldn't fit anything else but all seasons.
I’ve yet to experience a winter when I’ve not been happy enough on the summer tyres. Yes a buy A wet grip rated ones but that’s it. For the number of times it snows and I need travel then it’s not worth it. If I wasn’t a suburban dweller then I might have a different perspective
. For the number of times it snows and I need travel then it’s not worth it.
The way my man-maths works it out is that having winter tyres and summer tyres - each for ~6months of the year works out at zero additional cost. Each set of tyres will last approximately twice as long as they are on half the time.
Therefore the equation as I see it as there is probably no benefit most of the time to having winter tyres for general driving, but if you need them - ie emergency stop then there is a clear benefit.
Therefore clear benefit at no extra* cost makes it a no brainer.
*granted there you are front loading the cost of two sets of tyres at the start rather than spreading the cost over say 5 years.
All seasons for me, again Goodyear vectors, my little country village is only 2 mile from the large conurbation, but it's two mile I'd not want to walk. They are noisier than normal tyres, but given the state of the roads and our varied weather, they seemed the best compromise. Also owning a Haldex 4x4, there no way I wanted to get stuck in bad weather, due to summer tyres 😀
For the number of times it snows
Winter tyres, not snow tyres. Anywhere it's often below 7c you should see a benefit. You dont need to be bashing through snow drifts for them to provide improved safety.
The way my man-maths works it out is that having winter tyres and summer tyres – each for ~6months of the year works out at zero additional cost.
I reckon most will be paying someone to swap those tyres/wheels over.
I’ve yet to experience a winter when I’ve not been happy enough on the summer tyres. Yes a buy A wet grip rated ones but that’s it. For the number of times it snows and I need travel then it’s not worth it. If I wasn’t a suburban dweller then I might have a different perspective.
I've had three - 2008, 2010 and 2012 - 2008 I had brand new summer tyres on and still managed to get into the middle of the Yorkshire Dales in a rear wheel drive BMW with 2" of snow everywhere, but some of that was sideways. 2010 my Z4MC with 19" CSLs and <4mm of summer tred got stuck on a totally flat car park in similar conditions. 10 mile walk home in -10deg temperatures. 2012 - 3 Series Touring with new winter tyres managed to make it home to the bottom of a steep twisty valley with maybe 3-4 inches of snow on the ground and a lot of compacted ice. There were cars in every hedgerow on the way down, but my silly automatic RWD bus made it down okay. They work.
The main reason I like CrossClimates so much is wet weather traction. No other tyre* I've used resists wheelspin so well in the wet. It makes the car easier and nicer to drive.
I've had a succession of FWD hatchbacks all with 200-250hp and always used good tyres (Eagle F1, Pilot Sports etc) but the CrossClimates blow them away for traction in the wet. The fact that they are okay (vs completely useless) in the occasional snow we have is also a bonus.
*I've yet to try a more winter optimised all season like the Goodyear Vector though
But as rubbish a summer tyres on black ice.
Not IME. I regularly drive on a stretch of water ice where spring water crosses the road and freezes. This isn't a problem despite a moderate slope and gradient when taking care on Winter tyres. On the rare occasions I've had Summer tyres it takes extreme care at walking pace to get across.
+1 Michelin Cross Climate+ left on all year round. Performed great in the snow last December and earlier this year
Probably November for me. As others have said - once its regularly below 7°C
Big fan of winter tyres, although I do miss the sharpness and ultimate grip of the summers - the winters feel very wooly if you corner hard on dry roads when its warmer. I'll trade that for the ability to get where I want to go with less chance of ending up in a ditch. (plus a slightly paranoid attitude to not wanting to be *that* guy in the beemer)
My experience is that (outside of snow) the summers aren't too bad when they've got some heat in them, but for the first 20 minutes of a journey on a cold dank morning, the car feels a lot more skittish on summers than it does on the winters. Like driving on hard plastic rather than rubber. On ice, winters still aren't great, but you do at least stand a chance. A bit like a mountainbike -v- a roadbike. One you'll definitely crash, the other you might be alright if you're careful/lucky.
As an outdoorsy type, I like being out in the hills in the snow, so being able to get to the hills in winter weather (back again) is worth the expense!
I have 2 sets of wheels. The spares live in the cellar the rest of the year. I've just bought new winter tyres - the first set lasted 9 years, so feels like a decent payback period.
scruff9252
Free MemberThe way my man-maths works it out is that having winter tyres and summer tyres – each for ~6months of the year works out at zero additional cost. Each set of tyres will last approximately twice as long as they are on half the time.
Yup. And people tend to sell the wheels separately from the car when they move it on, so it's generally straightforward to find a set of wheels with good quality winter tyres cheaply so it's not even that big a cost. Storage is the only real hassle, for anyone that can work a spanner and has a jack.
For me, they used to always be fitted in a panic, the day before the Kinlochleven enduro- usually first weekend of November.
Does the maths still work out if your tyres age out rather than wear out? Had the MX5 MOT the other day and they recommended a tyre change at 6 year old, but still way more than half tread all round. The last 2 years most cars will have done reduced mileage. I'll keep an eye on them, but just looked at Michelin CrossClimate, way more than double the cost of good regular choices.
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain’t exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
Having driven in Scotland for the past 10 years I can say this is not true for me. Driving to work winter tyres, or all weathers (my preference) make a massive difference when it's icy, wet or snowing. They can mean the difference between getting home, or getting stuck like a lemon.
Year before last I remember five people crashing on one corner, a guy in a RWD Merc not making it up a hill, and me being very glad I has my winters on.
Does the maths still work out if your tyres age out rather than wear out? Had the MX5
A cold wet drive home in the dark in the passenger seat of an mx5 on a busy dual carridgeway convinced me that the only place an mx5 should be during the bad weather is in the garage.
Does the maths still work out if your tyres age out rather than wear out?
THIS is the issue for me on both sets. I now only do around 1500-3000miles a year.
It’s UV light that does most of the ageing, so tyres that are kept covered in a cool dark place (e.g my garage) for nine months of the year are likely to be longer lasting than tyres left on the car all year round. It’s always worth checking when tyres that are supplied to you were made-some may already be 3 years from date of manufacture but because they have been stored correctly can be sold as ‘new’
I got into them after reading on here and then needing them for a drive-ski trip to the alps. Not looked back really since as this:
the car feels a lot more skittish on summers than it does on the winters. Like driving on hard plastic rather than rubber.
The rubber compound is just so much softer on winters at <7 deg C. that it's also a lot more comfortable on the v broken tarmac we have locally as well as grippier. Yes they can feel a bit squirmy in the warming spring but that's the trigger to think about switching back to summers.
As said above, you don't have to have them for UK, but to the people saying they've never conceived of doing it in 47yrs on this earth I'd say car tyres are v different from 30+ years ago. The fashion for big alloys with wide, low profile tyres for sporty looks and handling to impress car journos, means that we now end up with pretty darn high performance summer tyres fitted OEM on almost all cars. These turn hockey-puck hard in the winter, rather than narrow softer all-year tyres we'd have got back in the day.
"its not the going, its the stopping…"
+1 !
I live 800ft up in the surrey alps. There's a school at the top of the road, and all the little cherubs get delivered in posh 4wds, which are of course perfect for this, especially in the snow. They're OK getting up but coming down is a different matter entirely!
My daughter has no problem either way in her Seat Mii shod with michelin cross climates...
we now end up with pretty darn high performance summer tyres
Or worse. Eco tyres made of old phones and other hard plastic to get the BIK down for middle management
South Manchester and never bothered. That said, ice spikers are ready for the MTB’s when needed. Will fit Snow Studs early to the commuter as I’m commuting on the canal and don’t fancy icy cobbles without them.
That the Bridgewater canal?
I do recall one time in Jan 2019 when it snowed fairly heavy overnight and it was virtually unpassable on my gravel bike.
The problem is the ruts that are created and the ice that forms due to the thaw-freeze cycle over 24 hrs.
It can get very sketchy.
However, it generally ends up with a few sketchy bits and the rest of the path clear. Having ridden studded tyes are a few times before, I dunno how appropriate studs would be with such long ice/snow free sections.
Cross climate 2s being fitted on Saturday. Mainly because STW says I should (😁) and also the car has 4 different tyres on it as supplied when I bought it.
dunno how appropriate studs would be with such long ice/snow free sections.
Studs don't care.
7 degrees is the recommended crossover point. For me in N Yorks that was generally early Nov until late March. I did get caught out once having put the summers back on and waking up the next morning to find 6” of snow! Made for an interesting drive to north Wales! I think the benefits of winter tyres depend on what car you have, where you live and what type of driving you do. A few years back I was weekly commuting from Bristol to Harrogate in a BMW so having winter tyres was a no-brainer. It made the difference between getting home for the weekend or getting stuck in Bristol or somewhere in between. The difference in cold, wet, slush, snow or ice over summer tyres was night and day. Even more so when compared to crappy run flats. Much safer all round. My commute is now simpler and in a FWD so I’ve gone for Cross Climates all year. A good compromise. I sold my old BMW alloys (bought secondhand for £100) and 2 season old winter tyres at a profit meaning I’d done nearly 30k miles for free!
I'm going to find out how good all-seasons are shortly. TBF they've been great all summer
Previously had Goodrich Activan Winters and whatever was cheapest for the summer but lack of storage meant this was becoming impractical so I'm trying all seasons on the new van, got some Maxxis Vansmarts. RWD and really heavy, this should be interesting on the ice!
My summers are "all seasons" (3 seasons really), my winters are mountain snowflake winters.
Bit of breathing room in the shoulder season but once it's reliably below 7 the winters are on. Law here is October 1st for m+s rated but that's insufficient.
Just got to kill off the last of my all season tread next summer then I'll likely go winter rated knobby tyres year round on the big van.
The way my man-maths works it out is that having winter tyres and summer tyres – each for ~6months of the year works out at zero additional cost. Each set of tyres will last approximately twice as long as they are on half the time.
If you do the swaps yourself, have somewhere to store them and keep your vehicle for a few years I find it actually works out significantly cheaper than just running one type of tyre year round.
I find winter tyres wear less in winter than a summer rated tyre does and vice versa.
In addition to that.... It only takes one 'oh shit oh shit oh shit' sliding moment to realise the value of winters.
Night and day difference in snow. Significant difference in cold slimy winter non-snowy roads.
As previously documented I had all season tyres fitted, just by luck, just when the snows hit earlier this year and they got me around the hills of Sheffield with barely a hint of wheel spin. I was very impressed with them.
They’ve also been brilliant through summer, very quiet, I get good mpg, grip has been fine (although note I am a fairly boring driver in a fairly boring car) and the times I’ve been driving across muddy fields etc they’ve performed well then too.
Can’t see me fitting anything else now and if I were needing new tyres on now and had summers on currently I wouldn’t bother with full winter ones.
Soon, but not quite yet. Usually done before the end of October and back again in April, depending; this year it was well into May before I swapped but this was an unusually cold spring.
I've decent summers on the big car at the moment, a Superb. The original alloys have the summers on and a box of 4 new factory steel rims a few years ago cost me £120 delivered from Germany. Goodyear Ultragrip full winters on those rims live in the shed for the summer, so last well and are going into their 4th winter with about 6mm of tread still on them. Living in rural Angus, practically everyone out here swaps over, except for those who have only one set of tyres for their transport- winters only, like on the Mrs' Fabia.
I've had to do a lot of mileage in daylight this last month to get out and cover running events, so prefer the summers stay on for longer drives in daytime temperatures.
However, mornings here are now cold most days, around 3-4C so well within range for the winters but as I'm no longer commuting to an office, that's pretty irrelevant this year. A desire to get to the hills year-round means that the winters will go on as soon as cold weather becomes normal again.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the 4 season, cross climate sort of tyre; it's never quite the 'right' tyre in summer nor grippy enough in snow or ice. Always a compromise but they do make life a lot easier without the twice a year swap hassles.
This test found a winter tyre pretty much the same in the snow as all seasons while being worse than all season in cold wet conditions.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
Will change mine over in nov probably. Not doing the miles anymore so will wait a little longer this year.
Unless of course the weather craps out and my wife wants to take my car into work
Changed roughly in line with the clocks changing, i.e. end-October then end-March. TBF I'm usually a few weeks late in changing onto the 'winters'.
Used to have full winters on spare rims for all 3 vehicles but now only have for my car (a 400bhp RWD penis extension), and even those are CrossClimate+ as decent full winters weren't available in the necessary size - still much, much better than summer tyres in colder/wetter conditions. Mrs a11y's car on CrossClimates all year round, and Pirelli (I think) all-seasons on the van. Central-ish Scotland.
I've just ordered another set of rims to get winter tyres fitted onto. I've done this with the last 3 cars. I was going to put crossclimates on, but they aren't available in the size I need and the current tyres are only 6,000 miles old.
I've got a set of wheels and winter tyres to sell that I used on the A6 - I'll just wait for the first few flakes and put them on Gumtree.
Hubby usually changes to winter tyres first week in November. Although one year we got caught out (living on a hill doesn't help) by early snow.
I may need to have a friendly word with a new neighbour who parks his car at the bottom of our road, there have been many sliding and slippery moments in the past, where cars from our road haven't managed to stop at the bottom. His car would become the buffer.
The way my man-maths works it out is that having winter tyres and summer tyres – each for ~6months of the year works out at zero additional cost. Each set of tyres will last approximately twice as long as they are on half the time.
Works out cheaper as my summer tyres are about £50 more each.
And we've already had some 3c mornings, but mine will be swapped later this month - rural Scotland.
No choice here due to constraints of a company vehicle, when they wear out it's whatever van tyres are actually in stock at the local fitters.
My own car has no ABS, no traction control or other gadgets. The tyres are an older profile and tyre choice is limited as it is.
For the last decade my commute as been either south shore of Loch Tay singletrack road
Was there a couple of weeks ago, lovely place. SWMBO was gutted the Crannog had burned down (Archeologist).
And we’ve already had some 3c mornings, but mine will be swapped later this month
I was monitoring temperatures when I was commuting to Strathpeffer and then to Inverness. There was no month in which I didn't have a sub 7C commute 😁
@jamesoz - there's a crannog in Loch Vaa near Aviemore. It's currently (last weekend) under 6cm of water so can be a bit tricky to find. Next time you're in the area with your wife, let me know if she wants to swim out to it.
@jamesoz – there’s a crannog in Loch Vaa near Aviemore. It’s currently (last weekend) under 6cm of water so can be a bit tricky to find. Next time you’re in the area with your wife, let me know if she wants to swim out to it.
Wow, very kind of you. I'm sure she'd love that, it was her first ever trip to Scotland and she loved the place.
A long journey from the fuel starved south but I'm sure we'll be back.
Having driven in Scotland, where the weather ain’t exactly warm all year, for 27 years, not once have I felt the need for a dedicated winter tyre.
I used to spend 3-4 weeks every winter in the Cairngorms climbing and would drive up from the South East on whatever tyres I had on the car.
Had many occasions when I could have used winter tyres. Worst one was coming back from the cinema in Inverness to Aviemore. I could see the b-roads hadn't ben gritted so thought I'd test the grip before I had to turn, so applied the brakes gently in a straight line, ABS kicked in and car just kept moving, then tried using the gears, nothing. Our turning came and went as we just 'drove' past it. Finally, just ground to a halt 300m later at the end of the road just at the start of someone's garden! Another 20 feet and we'd have be in their living room....
Then I've had to fit chains to get down from Corrie Cas car park when it had completely frozen whilst we were on the hill.
As per above, four seasons here. Had Michelin Cross Climates on for the last couple of years, but just changed the fronts to Goodyear Vectors (mainly because the reviews were good). I've found them really nice to drive on - quiet and comfy.
As has been said, it's not the going, it's the cornering and stopping. Live in Cheshire, so we get some cold weather, but probably not enough to justify full winter tyres. Having said that, all the tyres are M&S/Snowflake rated, so legal to use in Germany etc. in winter. I don't think I'd go back to summer tyres.