When to cut your losses with a car?

Do you have a local trusted garage? Fuel pump shouldn’t be that much.

That’s still a decent motor in my book. My newest motors is from 2009 probably worth 2.5k tops.
Better the devil you know in my view

Great timing with the thread. I have just managed to get my Mercedes home so without wishing to hijack your thread, I will add a second similar scenario.

2007 E Class convertible bought last December for £6K.
£250 for passenger door lock (broken) and getting the central locking to release and lots of time and effort
£200 - ICE/Sat nav screen has gone blank but I haven't replaced that.
£1,250 for DPF, EGr sensor, broken bit or wiring, plus fitting plus warnings*
?? Tonight. I stopped at the traffic lights and the dashboard lit up with airbag, ABS, Wheel Sensor, Run Flat and every other kind of warning. That looks pretty I thought but unfortunately when I tried to put the car in gear, it wouldn't move out of neutral. I turned the car off, put out the warning triangle and logged onto STW. By the time the forum had loaded, the car was ready to reboot so I put the key back in , started up and parked it on the drive.

A) Do I flush £6K away and sell for scrap?
B) Do I pay a garage £1,000-£0,000 to try and fix it?
C) Do I grab a soldering iron, lift the carpets and have a go?

*The warnings were that the roof must have leaked at some point because all the wiring under the carpet and the connectors are corroded and need replacing. This was an unknown amount of money because of the time and effort involved but would definitely be a 4 figure sum.

This is a very tricky question but I agree with Lesgrandpotato - better the devil you know.

Every penny you have spent so far has made this car better. If you sell and buy another who knows what will be wrong with the ‘new’ car’?

Better the devil you know is fine, but when I’ve worked it out I’ve spent (averaged across the time I’ve owned it including taking off what I’d get if I sold it today) a staggering £460 a month on the vehicle so far including purchase cost and repairs. I know that will go down over time the longer I own it, but not if it keeps needing repairs and when it’s off the road for weeks waiting for a repair I have to hire a car for work because I rely on it for site visits.

for that much a month I could have leased a brand new car with a warranty….

So you're looking at just over £3k spend on repairs (including the proposed timing belt and clutch) in two years on a what is now 9 year old car.

Doesn't sound too shocking to me.

Is it on it's original timing belt still or has it had one before?

What is your budget if you do kick it into touch?

Aside from the heater core, those sound like normal maintenance bills for older cars. Clutches need replacing, braking systems need work from time to time.

Timing belts always need doing.

I spanner on our cars, but in answer to the question, it’s partly feeling and partly, will the replacement have a chance of throwing bigger age/mileage model specific bills?

How much will it actually cost to move to a perceived more reliable car?

I should add I recently scrapped a 2007 Civic Type R - I'd had it 4 years and there was always something that kept going. Never major though, a few hundred at a time, but every couple of months. Rust killed it in the end and it wasn't worth opening that can of worms.

As my other car is a 22yr old MG TF (and that costs!), I decided to go for a much newer car on PCP. Now the 'daily' is a 2020 Abarth 595 that's costing me £160/month.

I’m not an expert

I’d take it to a garage you trust. Pay for them to go over it and give an opinion.

But my instinct is that selling is giving some one else all your hard work and parts

@wca. I’d be pulling the codes on a reader to see if there is a common theme. If not then after a warning of wet underseat computers I’d be running for the hills if not a decent Indy who has sorted one before.

[i]@wca. I’d be pulling the codes on a reader to see if there is a common theme.[/i]

I noticed, just before I pulled upatthe lights was the steering wheel controls had stopped working - or at least the radio volume and mute buttons. I figure I will trace those and see what they uncover but suspect they will track to one source.
All the tyre sensor and ABS warnings are probably the run to another stack of sensors on one of the wheels. that is probably another common source.

It can't be that hard to work out where the wires for Tyre pressure, Stability control and ABS all meet , can it?

A) Do I flush £6K away and sell for scrap?
B) Do I pay a garage £1,000-£0,000 to try and fix it?
C) Do I grab a soldering iron, lift the carpets and have a go?

D) You could try grafting a conservatory on top if the roof is leaking.

@wca that’s how I’d think about it. I’d be looking for an Indy who’s seen it before tho if I could.
wheel speed sensor logic seems sound.

To my mind, the time to get rid is when you feel compelled to start a forum thread asking whether you should get rid.

The amount you spend fixing a car you already know is going to be less than buying a car you don't know.

I've been having the same thoughts about my daily driver too, but not due to a big bill.  It's more the fact that it's done a lot of miles, 213k, which for an 11 year old 1.2 12v Fabia is a lot.  The only failure I've had was the alternator at 207k and even then it didn't leave me stranded but things are mounting up.  The subframe mounts are definitely worn, the gearchange is getting vague (hard to go into gear at times, probably a clutch-related issue), the engine has a small weepy oil leak on the timing chain cover and it's just generally starting to feel it's age.  I don't have a regular job currently so I'd only have a budget of £5-6k to find a replacement and at that range I'd be buying something with 100k on the clock and most likely a few problems of it's own so for the time being I'm keeping the Fabia and will slowly work through it's issues.  It does help it just passed it's MOT so I've got 12 months grace before things get serious but I like the car, know it's full history as I've owned it from new and it's been a brilliantly (but boring) dependable workhorse so I'm wary to get rid of it and inherit a load of trouble with it's replacement.

Corroded Merc = bin.

You'll be there for year chasing earth faults and the like. Not cheap and lots of hassle.

The VW?

There is a chunk of "consumables" and a few busted items.

Brakes - ho hum, brakes are consumables.
Timing belt - should have known when you bought it, consumable.
Heater core - not unexpected.
Rattly clutch - what does a VW Pro say?
Pump - again what does the pro say?

Deffo split the pump & clutch from the other item to do your maths. I'm a tight arse and I budget a grand a year to fix mechanical gremlins (I do a chunk myself), but consumables aren't included if that makes sense. The grand covers depreciation, it's an arbitrary number but a bad year might cost 2k, but if I've had it for 4 years I'm 2k up.

My cars are always >220k miles & >11 years old before I class them as uneconomical to repair.

At what point do you cut your losses and shift it off onto someone else?

When you feel it's giving you stress than peace of mind.

IMO sell it while you still can before it become too expensive to repair and buy a "simple" car.

Better the devil you know.  Usually.

Otherwise ask someone who owns a Nissan 🙂

The bigger questions around whether to ditch the Passat are

- how much are willing/able to pay for a replacement.  If it's £25k+ then you can make a significant enough step up (and to a relatively low mile - say under 40 or 50k miles) car. But if it's £10-15k you're just buying a different and unknown set of problems.

I've always taken a 'better the devil you know' approach, (except for 1 hatefully shite Zafira which really was throwing good money after bad).   I've usually run cars until ****ed and scrap, then bought again. I hate the £££ spend on cars, but the repairs have usually been less than the cost of buying  a decent new to me car).

I went through the process of nearly buying a new new car a few weeks ago. Thinking the do it before the big bills started to really come (Ford Kuga diesel, 54k miles). But with new tyres and brakes all around this year already, I concluded the extra spend (£35k+) for the new motor just wasn't worth the improvement in the car, and I can pay for plenty of clutches, exhausts etc and still have £30k left in the bank ! (Not to mention the new car = 5 years of extra road tax stiffing).

Now the ‘daily’ is a 2020 Abarth 595 that’s costing me £160/month.

And worth every penny for the amount of shits’n’giggles you get from driving a 595! Only thing better is an Abarth 695 Competizione,and they’re pretty rare, but with beautiful trim and 180 ponies! *chef’s kiss*

How long is a piece of string?

I've got rid mainly as I was losing trust in it's reliability or the repairs were becoming properly silly. Most of our cars have been 120-180k and 10-12+ years old when we got rid.

I sold the V70 while it still had some value, when faced with a £4k estimate on a 150k/10 year old car which also was not LEZ and I had two at uni in LEZ zones...but I still wish I had been able to keep it.

I also sold our 12yr/145k Ibiza 1.4 16v estate a year ago - still see it buzzing around the local area. But, that again has a long list of issues including the catalytic rusting through and it being a one piece/£1200 part, suspension issues and CV joints etc etc. The chap who bought it was a home mechanic and welder and it never goes more than about 6 miles from home - so he was happy with a £1k project car, and still is.

Seems like the general consensus is to keep for now at least. I need to get it fixed up even if I was gonna sell it so let’s see what the repair costs me and if the specialist thinks it’s likely to have damaged anything else (there seems to be a known issue with fuel pumps on these where it fills the entire fuel system with metal filings meaning the entire system needs replaced at several thousand pounds) and I’ll revisit the thought process in the new year.

A van is sounding might tempting instead though I must say…

I'd ditch it asap - VW famed reliability/build quality isn't really a thing anymore as you are finding out. I'd look at Toyota/Kia/Hyundai estates instead.

There does seem a big difference between what you paid for it two years ago and WBAC are offering now - have you put lots of miles on it?

Worth checking what the going rate is on AutoTrader, trade and private sellers, compared to WBAC offer. Also see if Motorway suggests a higher price.

Could consider fixing, selling and replacing with something else if you've lost faith in the vehicle. Selling privately isn't so hard, should find buyers at that kind of age/price.

Buy a pump from autodoc and either fit it yourself or get a mobile mechanic to do it.

Then sell it , people often underestimate the cost of timing belt and dmf , clutch replacement parts and labour.

Pump should be doable on the drive, some require a vag tool to release, but in reality it's a hammer and flat bar and 300 quid

Yes there’s a significant difference in what I paid vs what it’s worth now. I bought it at the height of high prices in 2022 because I had to replace a written off car, and it was on 106,000 miles then. Now it’s on 131,000 so not mega miles added.

@singletrackmind do you know if they need coded into the vehicle? It seems doable otherwise but that put me off doing a lot of jobs on this car

What do folks think the going price is for a new clutch + flywheel, and timing belt.

In my head, new clutch + DMF is going to be around £1k, and a new timing belt £500-600 sort of mark.  Worse at the main stealers of course.

To the OP, for brakes - to do all 4 corners of discs + pads, Ford wanted about £1100 and even regular garages wanted £900+ on my Kuga. No callipers replaced. So I can see why you paid £1k for rear calipers + discs + pads.  (I bought some EBC discs and pads and discs them myself for about £430 in parts and £10 on a can of magic spray that made bastidtight bolts undo with no drama, + probably another £10 on brake cleaner spray.

I very much doubt it. The in tank pumps tend to be high volume , low pressure units . These feed either an engine driven lvhp unit up front or a secondary lvhp , these might need coding .

Looking online it's a drop in single unit with the level sensor built in.

Allow 2 hours , get some blue roll or loads of rags , latex gloves and watch a couple of YouTube videos but sometimes these are less than helpful

this is always a tough one. Cars are expensive and require money spending on them at some point. Buying anything old is a lottery and you need to be willing to play the game.

the merc if 100% in the bin for me. Anything where by its corrosion of wiring then your going to be chasing your tail for ages (potentially). No way youll every get to the bottom of it without a lot of time.

vw, well. As others have said all consumables. weighing it up i would be thinking whats the condition (any rust i wouldn't plough a lot of money into it). whast the suspension, exhaust, turbo like? all good potentially keep. but your at the age where by your going to get perished bushes etc so if your not willing to commit then think about that.

personally it depends if you like the car. If its nice spend the money. if your not bothered get shut and get something you do like. ive seen people with much newer cars with much higher bills and always think about that when spending money.

none of the problems you have are related to each other, they're all separate things, made by separate companies - so there's no pattern of failure that suggests something else will go wrong next.

I wouldn't be using a VW garage to do any of this stuff though - its an old car, I'd just be using a local backstreet garage and saving a bunch.

£10k is an awkward amount to spend on a car - its far enough out of bangernomics that anything that goes wrong needs to be fixed, but far enough out of warranty that you'll be paying for each thing that goes wrong.

@airvent - You're probably nowhere near Leeds, but just incase you are, theres a great independent VW specialist called smashing (they originally started as a breakers). I've used them for years with several cars and they've been brilliant.

https://www.vwspecialists.co.uk/

As many have said above, the repairs are typical of a car of that age/mileage.  You might only better your situation with another vehicle if you want bangeromics (sub £2k) or went nearly new (£20k+).  In the bracket your current car is in, you'll always need to factor in a running repair bill.  Whenever I buy a car, I factor in 10% or the purchase price for additional repairs in the first year or two, as the previous owner is likely to have let things slip abit before trading in.

Due to a variety of factors in the UK, people don't look after cars that well or run them down as their value drops.  It's better to view a car as a service cost.  A £10k car might need £1k - £2k of running costs per year, a bangeromics car cost at £2k only lasting 2 years or a new/nearly new car loosing £1.5k in value per year (plus interest lost it in being tied up in a depreciating asset).  There isn't really an option that will cost significantly less in the long run, unless you are lucky.

I used to be in the bangeromics camp (most of my cars have cost less than £1k!), these days I run a nicer car but keep it 7-10 years and maintain well to keep it running like new.  This might cost more a year in repairs but I get to drive something that works 100% and is easy to sell privately for a higher price, as it's best condition car available.

VAG cars are definitely built to last 10-15 years and then fall apart in my experience.

Get rid.

This year our Fiesta (that's worth about £500 if the buyer doesn't get closer than about 10ft) has had

Cambelt + pump £650

One new front shock strut £300

4 new tyres £240

New exhaust £125*

+ The usual servicing

It's still a bargain even though a years tax and a tank of fuel probably double it's value!

In your case it's a bit painful but I'd get the cambelt and clutch done and the fuel lift pump fixed / replaced then fingers crossed that might be it for another 100,000miles.

*yep, the whole thing from the catalyst back, fully fitted, I love cheap pattern parts and backstreet mechanics

I will be selling my car, or potentially scrapping it shortly. It's a 23 year old Nissan Primera. Been very reliable, has a slight bit of 'treated' rust on one wheel arch, but looks great, runs great and everything works. It's not worth more than a grand at best.  I'm actually getting a van, so it has to go.  I'll MOT it, and if nothing major is needed I'll pop it up for sale for someone to get at least another year's cheap motoring rather than scrap it.  If there comes up a big job, then it's not worth repairing, and it may be best to sell as MOT failure or just send to scrap. You just don't know with such an old car.

A 2015 Passat is quite new and I wouldn't hesitate on spending on wear and tear parts.

I'll make sure I have a repairs pot for the van though, as I doubt it will be as reliable as our two Nissans have been. We've a 2012 Qashqai that's mint, and the only jobs have been a wheel bearing (under warranty), gearbox/engine lower support needing replacing (20 minute job) and recently a rubber CV boot was needed.

There isn’t really an option that will cost significantly less in the long run, unless you are lucky.

I disagree, an older, cheaper car will always work out cheaper.

Servicing in theory should cost the same at 20 years as it does when new, but in reality most cars probably go through the spectrum from dealer serviced, to indie, to backstreet, to DIY. So running costs are cheaper in the real world.

"Maintenance" as in non-service items, but you expect them to wear out anyway, creeps up as time goes on, But most cars will get through several cambelts, clutches, exhausts, suspension bushes, etc in their life. So whether it's 7 or 17 years old you probably have the same overall risk of a mid-sized bill cropping up.

Eventually something will kill it if it reaches a natural end, usually rust or some major engine component wearing out.  But at that point it's not the current owner that's paid for that failure it's the depreciation paid for by the previous owner(s).  If it's a £1000 car then you only lose £1000 whether the cost to fix it was £1000 or £10,000.

Or it meets an unnatural end, getting stolen or crashed,  Which is far more expensive on a new car than on an old one.

Our Fiesta has objectively had a bad year, but compared to a brand new car it's less than 2 months hire / finance, or similar less than a couple of months repayments on a 5-yr old car (although at least in that scenario you'd own it after a few more years).  The other 10 months of the year is effectively free!  We've owned it from basically new (6 months) and with a handful of 'expensive' years like this one as the exceptions it's only getting cheaper with time.

+1 for get rid and get Kia / Hyundai

I had a 2007 Skoda Octavia VRS estate that started costing lots of money a few years ago. I got fed up of taking it to the garage.

I listed it for sale on ebay with honest description, it got a decent price, and I bought a 2016 Kia 2 years ago, not had any problems since.

Christ this one hits close to home, I too own a 2015 Passat, had it for 5-ish years now, paid similar as OP, had 132k miles and now at 180k-ish.

MOT with Service + Cambelt and Water pump cost me £900ish this month, led me to think what else its cost me during my ownership and I too had a seized rear calliper, air conditioning pump needed replacing and had to do the dual mass fly wheel and clutch due to failure!

For me, now I've done the big ticket stuff, she's getting run into the ground, handy as I cracked the rear bumper reversing recently taking more value off of the resale...

What do folks think the going price is for a new clutch + flywheel, and timing belt.

In my head, new clutch + DMF is going to be around £1k, and a new timing belt £500-600 sort of mark

Hmm.  Well in MY head (not always reliable), a new clutch + DMF was around £1k.... about 10 years ago. At least, for a diesel Mondeo.

So good luck....

@oikeith well it at least sounds like I could take it to 180k miles if I’m lucky, another 12 months and it’s paid off so I guess just repairs after that but they seem to never go a month or two without needing something spent on them, usually costing what a monthly payment on something new would which is what the kick in the nuts is for me.

another 12 months and it’s paid off so I guess just repairs after that but they seem to never go a month or two without needing something spent on them, usually costing what a monthly payment on something new would which is what the kick in the nuts is for me.

Think about it the other way, buying a 'new' car you pay some faceless finance company every month whether it goes wrong as well on top of that or not.

At least once it's paid off you're no longer paying to play that lottery.

DMF and Clutch for my Mini were going to be closer to £1500 - At an independent....5 years ago!

No local VW garage can fit me in until 6th January

this is the deal breaker for me - or ideally, just before it reaches this point.

paying for repairs on cheaper cars is possibly financially sound.

but being without it* for 3 weeks, including if you've got travel plans for christmas, thats not fulfilling its basic function as my primary transportation.

*is it drivable? do you trust it for a long trip?

It’s possibly drivable but for how long is a gamble. Could very easily leave me stranded or cause further damage if it can’t supply adequate fuel pressure to the rail, so realistically, it’s out of action now.

it being Christmas is actually useful in a way because I normally rely on it for work travelling round the region to client sites but I’m off work soon for a while.

Given I’m reliant on the car not just to commute to work, but as part of my job driving to meetings, I really wonder if a lease car with a warranty would be better. There’s only so many times you can apologise for car trouble to a client before it starts taking the piss a bit.

Why are you driving your own car to meetings? Do you get a car allowance?

Do you get a car allowance?

Yup, and 47ppm ?

Yeah I get a car allowance of £3,800 a year then 24p a mile. Should really be 47ppm but they’re a bit tight.

I've got a 13 year old Passat (1.6tdi) with 145k on the clock. Had tons of problems with the injectors, fuel pump and EGR value when i got it but that was sorted on warranty. Since then ive not spent much on it except obvious consumerbles likes brakes, servicing, timing belt, bushes. Its been pretty relaible and i intent to keep it for a few more years.

As someone else mentioned, dont go to the main dealers they are expensive for both parts and labour. It was once in for warranty work at VW and they mentioned the brakes needed doing, they quoted something like double my local garage and probably quadrupal what i could do myself.

I often think about changing but then for the price i'd pay for a newish one, i could fix a lot each year on my banger. I do a lot of the work myself if i can get to it on the drive so its a no brainer for me to keep it.

I thought the higher rate was only for people who didn't get an allowance? Certainly is at every company I've worked in the last 15 years.

You just claim the difference on your tax return. So you’ll get 47ppm just a bit deferred.

Hold on a sec...

The man maths just don't stack up here, we're talking about a Passat that's knocking on for a decade old now. For which you're still paying off an (exorbitant even in 2022) £10.5k (so interest on top?) plus you've shovelled a £1.5k into repairs on it and you're looking down the barrel of the same again? Within 24 months? 

Dude that thing has sucked almost £14 grand out of you thus far and clearly isn't reliable, it's a money pit,.Chopped in via WBAC you reckon you'll still be ~£10k down?

Honestly get out now before it gets any worse. My (uninformed) opinion, Yeah VAG group cars are nice enough and will mostly last a couple of decades, but that second decade tends to be full of ever increasing bills.

And you have a car allowance (roughly equivalent to £315 a month) from work? I'd get on Lease loco. Does it need to be Passat sized (for work/family)? You could probably do a smaller (new) car with a bolt on maintenance/tyres package more or less within your allowance budget... And just hand it back after a couple of years.

Why are you driving your own car to meetings? Do you get a car allowance?

As I understand it a car allowance is taxable at the same rate as your salary (except possibly without NI, and without your employers NI) so really its not a benefit its just a weird way of expressing your salary. I guess it could be a way to have office and site based employees on the same base salary but give the travellers a bit of a bonus?

in any case, once they've started giving you a "car allowance" not only do they not have to pay the full 45p/mile that they would if you used your own car, they then also gain the right to start dictating what sort of car you have:

age - I know of people that must have cars no older than 5 (or even 3) years - to present a "professional appearance";

must have 4 doors;

must comply with some poorly worded and not thought through attempt to seem eco that doesnt actually work in reality.

As someone who likes to buy 3ish year old, 2 door cars, and run them until they seem like they are about to get expensive - any of these criteria would mean an annoying and costly downgrade.

This is for me, 2 or 3 sites to visit a week, mostly in the same or neighbouring counties, probably only a few thousand miles a year. If you were racking up 20k miles of business miles it becomes a very different calculation.

Yeah I get a car allowance of £3,800 a year then 24p a mile. Should really be 47ppm but they’re a bit tight.

if you get a car allowance then they only need ot "cover" your fuel costs, 24p seems about right. anything over that would be a taxable benefit so you wouldn't see all of it.

if you get a car allowance then they only need ot “cover” your fuel costs, 24p seems about right. anything over that would be a taxable benefit so you wouldn’t see all of it.

Doesn't happen for me & I'm paid both?

age – I know of people that must have cars no older than 5 (or even 3) years – to present a “professional appearance”;

If you are failing to turn up to client sites as your old car is in for repair (again) then I can see where they are coming from.

You just claim the difference on your tax return. So you’ll get 47ppm just a bit deferred.

No, you get the tax back on the difference, so (assuming 40p tax rate) 45-27p = 18p, x0.4 = 7.2p per mile back from HMRC.

if you get a car allowance then they only need ot “cover” your fuel costs, 24p seems about right. anything over that would be a taxable benefit so you wouldn’t see all of it.

Depends on the company and how it's paid.  there's no legal requirement to pay anything, the 45p is the max HMRC will allow you to claim without it being taxed, they could pay you £1/mile but then you'd pay tax on the other 55p as if it were income.

If they provide you with a company car (and you pay BIK on it) but no fuel card then the rate is less as it's only supposed to cover fuel.

If they pay a "car allowance" then from a tax perspective that's just income and taxed as such.  The company is still free to set the expenses per mile at whatever they like.

If they do a car scheme via salary sacrifice then I think that comes under company car rules but I'm less sure.

Hold on a sec…

The man maths just don’t stack up here, we’re talking about a Passat that’s knocking on for a decade old now. For which you’re still paying off an (exorbitant even in 2022) £10.5k (so interest on top?) plus you’ve shovelled a £1.5k into repairs on it and you’re looking down the barrel of the same again? Within 24 months?

Dude that thing has sucked almost £14 grand out of you thus far and clearly isn’t reliable, it’s a money pit,.Chopped in via WBAC you reckon you’ll still be ~£10k down?

Except there's zero evidence to suggest that once fixed the car will be any less reliable than anything you could replace it with.

Selling it cheap and then having to pay £300+ each month foevermore is just guaranteeing that you've lost money and will continue to lose money.

If you are failing to turn up to client sites as your old car is in for repair (again) then I can see where they are coming from

I get the intent, especially in OP's case, they dont want an unreliable old banger - but in general, forcing people to get rid of a 3 year old car under 50k miles in this day and age seems less about reliability and more about you the employee showing up in a car that looks like they have given you with a company car (current model dull base spec german repmobile), but without them having to put the effort or expense in to actually providing one for you.

employee showing up in a car that looks like they have given you with a company car

I had a £5k car allowance with no stipulations so I just carried on using my ex military Nato green 110 Defender.

Could very easily leave me stranded or cause further damage if it can’t supply adequate fuel pressure to the rail, so realistically, it’s out of action now.

Yup, low fuel pressure into the HP pump and rail can give all sorts of issues with cylinder temps, exhaust systems, missfire and so on. Especially at higher engine speed and load. See it a *lot* on modified cars.

OTOH depending on the car and tank it can vary from extremely easy to change a pump (couple of hours, mostly undoing and doing up bolts/removing the rear seat cushion then 15 minutes to get the pump swapped) to an entire day of cursing and having to drop the tank/remove exhaust etc.

I’m fearful that it’s getting close to needing as much spent on keeping it running as it’s worth and they aren’t the most reliable so a single big repair bill would mean I’d be better off scrapping it. I still owe about £2800 on it from a bank loan.

What you have to remember is that most things on a car are independent. So if e.g.  your water pump fails one day it doesn't mean that your brakes are going to fail any time soon. What that means is that for a given age, a certain component has (more or less) a given probability of failure.  That means that the maintenance cost of a car is really a separate concept from the purchase cost.  You buy it for a known sum, then you have a certain probability of a certain maintenance expenditure for however long you keep it.  If you change the car for one of a similar age, that doesn't change.  It is also not affected by the market value of a car.  That can be artificially low or high depending on a variety of criteria that may not be the same as your criteria.

If you chop the car in, and buy another of similar value you'll face a similar chance of similar bills. If you buy one significantly newer, you might avoid having to spend on that one thing but you might hit another bill that could already have been changed earlier on the older car.  For example you might have a 100k mile car that's just had a new clutch, but if you buy an 80k car it might need a new clutch soon etc.

If you buy a car that's much newer than the one you've got, you might end up spending ten grand more than you already did just to avoid three grand's worth of work. That doesn't make sense from a maintenance cost perspective, but you may end up with a car that you like better.

In short, it's nearly always worth fixing an old car and don't worry about the market value until it's rock bottom.  A car's value to you is not the same as its market value. I should probably not have sold the Passat, I'd still be driving around in it now and probably be at least ten grand better off.

Thanks for all your viewpoints, much appreciated. Some thinking to do over the Christmas break for sure.

Except there’s zero evidence to suggest that once fixed the car will be any less reliable than anything you could replace it with.

Well there's no evidence of the opposite either, and cars don't tend to improve with age...

Selling it cheap and then having to pay £300+ each month foevermore is just guaranteeing that you’ve lost money and will continue to lose money.

It's an ongoing cost for transport. Amortize the ~£12000 the OP is into this Passat so far over the two years of ownership and it shakes out at about £500 PCM, offset by whatever he gets chopping it in (you can do better than WBAC's offer) he's still probably spending about the same as a lease (on a decade old, out of warranty car). Ownership incurs similar overall costs but comes with some harder to predict liabilities if (when) it suffers a breakdown.

If you're wed to the idea of owning a car you do need to be realistic about the costs and the fact that reliability does not improve with age and use...

If I had the time, space and patience I'd love to do bangernomics 'Rusty Nissan Prairie' style. But realistically most people aren't in a position to do that...

My take on it is that quite a few cars have an age where quite a few parts reach the end of there lives. I had it with an older Passat between 110k and 130k miles a few relatively big ticket items failed, alternator, brake servo, injector wiring loom in the head, intercooler pipes. I was lucky to be skilled enough to do the work myself. It then ran from 130k miles to 220k miles with just normal brakes and suspension bushes.

I am just about to retire a 2006 Citroen Dispatch van. 180,000 miles, most repairs done by me and has only broke down once, last year, in 12 years of ownership. Whilst the engine is sound (I've maintained it and they can do 300.000), runs well and passes MOT's and emissions with ease. Yes the Bosch EGR actually works and only needs a clean along with the intake about every 80,000 miles. The van itself is an old design dating back to 1994 and certainly feels it compared to modern vehicles!

It got rear ended last year by some buffoon (paid out and bought back) which has accelerated it's root to the scrap yard. I'm not repairing the damage or any of the other things that need doing. It's adios amigo as I have a new (new to me) petrol MPV to replace it. I didn't want an MPV or petrol engine (there's no way I can afford the extortionate prices of electric vans), but my arm has been twisted by emission charges and it will do, until SH electric vans slot into a more reasonable price range!

you can do better than WBAC’s offer

I'm not sure - it sounds like a shed.

You owe it nothing, move on.

Time to cut your losses IMO. Either get a lease or a loan and buy something fairly new. You could get a £15k car loan over 4 years for around £350 a month. Less than the current car has cost you. Newish cars have fewer problems.

Aside from consumables and servicing my almost 7 year old Skods has required a cracked brake light lense replaced and front brake pad shims (warranty repair)

I also am seeing a narrowing between running second hand cars and new lease or similar deals. I think the rising cost of repairs is a major factor, as is the 'more technical it is, more to go wrong as it ages' factor, as is 'bigger car = bigger bills and faster wearing out' factor...

We still managed to run a small second hand car cheap(ish). But, we chose to spend less than we could afford - my extra few £000 seemed to buy a 'nicer' car, but not necessarily more reliable or prone to issues.

Our mileage has significantly dropped as well now, and so the gap between lease and our loan + "older car running costs" has come right down. Excluding insurance and fuel, our Fabia is £230 a month...I can lease a new Astra electric estate for £290 on an amortised Lease for 10k miles is similar. I am assuming all regular service, tyres, fuel, insurance etc is the same.

If it's any help I have a 64 plate Passat estate with 100K on it and just had timing belt, water pump, new battery and MOT done for £850 in Edinburgh and paid £180 for a service in September.  Not expecting to be paying anything else until it's next service /MOT

Well my last post was slightly optimistic.  Having done the timing belt last year I was hoping it would be good for another 4-5 years but this year is looking expensive.  Already spent £1800 on a DMF and rear disks and pads and it's now needing track rods and ends, centre exhaust sleeve, rear trailing arms and bushes, rear spring seat arms, 2 new tyres and a service for £2200.

Now in the difficult position of wondering whether to spend this money on an 11 year old / 110K mile Passat worth ~£2500 (when fixed) or replace it.

To get into a 3-5 year old car I'm going to be paying £300pcm on finance which doesn't make me feel I'll be better off.

Any advice from the wise folks of Singletrack?

Looking at your previous post you've got an MOT coming up in December too! 😬😬

As for advice - piece of string innit - my 2020 Abarth has cost me a lot more money this year than my 2002 MG TF (which aren't known for their reliability!). And they get driven a similar amount of miles.

Your £2.5k value seems low. £4 - £4.5k maybe?  So it's a cost of  £2.2 to keep it going, for essentially regular replacement items. Those + the dmf/timing belt/water pump means you have a decent run now before they need doing again. Yeah, there will be other items coming up, but hopefully, unless you know otherwise, not so big. How's the clutch? DPF good? Are you at a good local independent garage with those prices?

Clutch was done at same time as DMF so should be good for another 100K.  Value was from Arnold Clarks version of WBAC so won't be it's retail value.  No idea what state the DPF is in.  It's at an independent VW specialist.  As far as I know prices are similar to any other normal garage I've used.  Definitely not going near a dealer for an 11 year old car.  MOT due in December but I'd be expecting a clean pass after this work.

This is a 'better the devil you know' situation then. Depends on your options other than fix it. Finance on a new car?,  risk a bangernomics car? 

My previous T5 was like this. Quite a few big bills after 100k, but I kept fixing it with the mindset of the fixed part being good for another 100k miles etc..and it was still the right vehicle for me to cart stuff around in. Eventually it wasn't the right vehicle so thats when I soid it. 

Value was from Arnold Clarks version of WBAC so won't be it's retail value. 

Might be more useful to judge the value to replace, i.e. dealer or private sale price.

I'd probably do the work and keep it, as you've already sunk the £1.8k and you should know you've got a tip-top car after the extra work.

I've just scrapped our 60 plate Aygo we've had for 4 years. Used as spare car when son breaks his and supposed to be for daughter as well, but she's not keen on driving (passed test a year ago).

Latest test suddenly threw in a load of issues. Cat has fell to bits after we had a whole exhaust system including Cat 4 years ago. So that with sensors and mid pipe minimum is £500. Both headlamps dodgy, despite being polished up. £200 for new. Rear brake binding and now needing welding around rear end and sub frames corroded. Decided £1k of work wasn't worth it on a £1500 car (at most). Shame it looked great but the tin worm had set in.

Passed no problem last year. 

You have a car with a new DMF and rear brakes. If you change it for something similar, you could easily end up with a car with an old DMF and rear brakes, and that also needs tie rod ends and whatnot.

Changing a car for something similar is a gamble.  You might get something trouble free, you might get a shed. So ask yourself - do you feel lucky?  Just remember, new cars aren't cheap either.  Especially not these days.  What are similar cars going for on Autotrader?

Ok, same model Passat, same age, similar miles, FSH and some kind of warranty  is £5-6K on Autotrader.  The one at £7.5K is probably an over optimistic private seller.   None of them guaranteed to have decent tyres, new brakes, new clutch, new DMF and some fresh suspension makes it a sensible choice for me to keep it.  Just got to convince the other half of the family that we shouldn't replace it now.

If it was 14 years old with a rust problem then I would get rid but its going to have to soldier on a few more years.

I try & get rid of cars before I have to spend big.

Our 61 plate Passat had a month of MOT left. Bought it 3yrs ago for £1500. 210k on the clock.Broken clockspring. Duff rear brakes. All four wings  & tailgate rusted through.

Saw a Saab 9-5 TiD wagon with a new test, 4 new tyres, refurbed wheels, new brakes, new towbar & 110k on it.

Owned by a Saab buff.

£700!

Stuck the Passat on FB for £1k - got £700 for. The same day.

Curious to know what OP eventually decided to do! What news, @airvent ?

Posted by: politecameraaction

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Curious to know what OP eventually decided to do! What news, @airvent ?

i actually still have the car, it got repaired which was an £800 bill for a new fuel pump. It also broke a coil spring on the rear in the summer so we changed them out on the driveway for a couple hundred. Now on 142k miles. I think by next MOT in February it’ll need a fair bit of suspension work done to get a pass looking at the state of all the bushings and ball joints. 

I do want to sell it next year and get a van instead at which point it’ll probably have 150k on it, and fingers crossed I don’t have to do anything major before that.