Uninsulated 1930s semi, 1990s double glazing, modern combi boiler, new extension with ufh, 4 young kids. Gas hob and electrical oven, cooking every day.
Show your working and payback period please!
Balance radiators (I should do this anyway)
Fit new boiler controls so the combi can modulate properly from demand from both zones (£600)
New double glazing with trickle vents to fix condensation issues
Smart TRVs
Swap the old fashioned tumble dryer for a heat pump one (1 load per day)
Insulation (£££ as solid walls)
Solar PV and or battery (£££)
Something else?
Loft insulation?
Aware insulation works best when all sides are insulated but can you up the roof insulation or get that added?
Your ideas sound sensible...but is there any scope to change the cooking habits? Would a large cooking session and then quick reheats be possible (would that be better from a cost point of view?)?
I don't know what balance radiators are and I'm assuming smart Trv are the controls on radiators? If so, this is something I'm kind of looking at - I don't own a house so not my choice but if so they could help with making heating more sensible and used in rooms that need it more in winter...so if that is right then that also sounds a good idea.
Minimise use of the tumble dryer. Probably easier said than done with 4 kids. I think it would take a long time to recover the additional price of a heat pump dryer over a normal one...unless the current one is broken.
Oh and stop breeding 😂
The tumble drier seems an easy win, washing line at this time of year, shiela maid type device in the winter,tumble drier as a last resort.
They use a lot of power to do something a bit more quickly which would just happen naturally
.
Solar water heater is usually cheaper upfront than PV. At least in the summer you won't need the boiler on just to heat water
Condensation likely to be lifestyle driven so try and address source.
Make sure boiler is on eco so its not always preheating water.
Check loft insulation and overlay more.
Bleed rads, checks draught round doors, make sure sun gets in whenever poss, turn standby items off at plug, use leds..
Hope it helps
Damp air takes more energy to heat than dry air. Sort the damp problems.
Oh and stop breeding
Better still, get rid of the 2 kids you like least. You can downsize to a more efficient house, and there's all the savings from less cooking, washing, ferrying them about - the possibilities are immense.
Better still, get rid of the 2 kids you like least
😂
Gas hob and electrical oven, cooking every day.
Wherever practical, put lids on your pans. You want to heat the food, not the kitchen. Moving to a gas hob I was astonished at how much lower I'd to set the burner for a lidded pan; an open pan of pasta is almost full chat, closed the flame is barely visible.
Batch cook. Why are you cooking every day? Make double, stick half of it in the freezer to ding another night, you've just halved your cooking. When I lived on my own I'd often make quadruple amounts - one for now, one in the fridge for lunch tomorrow, two in the freezer for whenever.
I've always found it slightly perverse that we simultaneously want to eliminate drafts and increase ventilation. I never quite got my head around that one.
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Thermal insulated curtains.
Draft excluders
Lids on pans when you cook.
Only boil kettle when you need it.
Short showers.
Stack up washing up and do in one go.
Energy saving light bulbs.
All free, low cost or home DIY'able.
I’ve always found it slightly perverse that we simultaneously want to eliminate drafts and increase ventilation. I never quite got my head around that one.
You should be able to control ventilation, draughts you cannot control. Seal up the obvious ones and then use windows and doors and mechanical extraction only when needed.
Clothes on the line our tumble dryer is almost redundant maybe used once in the last 3 months plus you clothes smell better.
Clothes on the line our tumble dryer is almost redundant maybe used once in the last 3 months plus you clothes smell better.
This. Ours is rarely used even in winter. In the summer everything dries outside, in the winter it gets left on a drying rack.
How much is house insulation? By which I assume you mean walls?
Only boil kettle when you need it.
Who boils a kettle when they don't need it? Just happen to be walking past, think I'll switch it on?
Only boil as much water as you need rather than a kettleful for a single brew, perhaps.
You should be able to control ventilation, draughts you cannot control. Seal up the obvious ones and then use windows and doors and mechanical extraction only when needed.
Ah, yeah, that makes sense for wet rooms like kitchens and bathrooms. Living spaces though... What, you're supposed go round and close all the trickle vents before you leave the house?
On the clothes drying front, outside on the line is obviously best, but of these what l weather is rubbish put the wet clothes on an airer in front of a radiator, then put a big sheet, like a double bottom sheet or mattress protector, over the whole lot, tucked down the back of the radiator. The sheet traps the heat inside, acting like a hotbox, drying the clothes much quicker than just letting them sit there.
Thanks all, I'll keep trying to persuade the rest of the household to do the easy things like pan lids and I've "misplaced" the thermostat. Already got heavy curtains, full complement of loft insulation etc.
Damp is coming from condensation on the old windows from 3 kids sleeping in the same room with no trickle vents.
I'd really like to see some numbers on where spending money is best -
New double glazing Vs 1990s, what's the payback period? Can I get trickle vents retrofitted and the blown panel replaced?
How much more efficient is a modern condensing boiler running modulated output Vs on\off (TPI)?
We're unlikely to reduce the tumble drying much, there's just not enough hours in the day to hang out the hundreds of small clothes that get washed every week. Some of the bigger stuff perhaps, but with high usage how quickly will a new one pay for itself?
Double your loft insulation, quick and cheap.
The lead time on new double glazing right now will probably take you well past winter. You might be able to get hold of just a panel for your blown one. You can attach an extra layer of film to improve the rating of existing panels.
Dry air > wet air, so neglecting ventilation will just lead to mould and cost you money. Gas hob will also add moisture (along with no pan lids).
Maximise the efficient use of the oven instead - roast veggies alongside other bits of the meal etc rather than boil them. Maybe consider a positive pressure pump in the loft - sounds counterintuitive but used efficiently during the day will deal with your mould issue and make your house cheaper to heat.
Also, if you must use the tumble, make sure it is venting efficiently, rather than delivering moisture into the room.
The sheet traps the heat inside, acting like a hotbox, drying the clothes much quicker than just letting them sit there.
How does that save energy?
Are just using your central heating to dry the clothes and stopping the heat energy warming your room.
A heat pump tumble dryer would be a better option.
Do less washing would be a start. Ask yourself if clothes really need to be washed everyday? If something of the kids (or yours!) gets spilled on sponge it off, rather than sticking it in the washing basket.
Is there a reliable objective professional who I could pay to assess my house and suggest most effective/best value improvements? Don’t want an EPC or a builder who has a vested interest in the work.
Don't discount the rest of the window in terms of efficiency, the surrounds and units have come a long way as well. 90's double glazing probably has a U value of 2.8W/m^2K and modern stuff is legally below 1.6W/m^2K (triple is below 0.7W/m^2K).
That's quite the difference.
Double your loft insulation, quick and cheap.
Depends, he says it's fully done so adding more starts to get into very marginal gains (assuming a depth of 300mm rockwool)
No baths (I've only had one since December (ew) navy showers will become the norm). Cooking for several meals at once in the oven then re-heating with microwave. I shall be buying up anthracite next week on the assumption that the price will only rise. Jumpers. We're two in a four bed stone EOT and our usage is below average but it looks pretty awful. We do have a sun-facing wall so clothes dry no problem.
I have no idea if they are any good but they just seem to sell the kit and do assessments.
https://www.buildtestsolutions.com/energy-performance-of-my-house
Do less washing would be a start. Ask yourself if clothes really need to be washed everyday? If something of the kids (or yours!) gets spilled on sponge it off, rather than sticking it in the washing basket.
Also, do it when it's needed - ie, when you've got a full load. When I lived alone I probably ran the washing machine about once a fortnight. Now with just me and my partner it's like every other day. When The Girl and her fella were living here it was at least daily, and some of that was during lockdown where she didn't change out of her PJs for a week. WTF are you washing, dust?
I don't understand it. We went on holiday last week. I took a rucksack of clothes and toiletries (and another bag of games, books, chargers etc). My partner had a huge suitcase along with a rucksack. The Girl and her boyfriend took a large and a small suitcase, two mid-sized holdalls, and still managed to run the washer once if not twice. Granted, they have a new-born, but even so...?!
Tomb - I had boiler serviced by bg so asked the engineer what to do. I know they sell boilers but he said don't waste yr money on new boiler, bigger rads etc, doubling up loft insulation on 2 bed detached bungalow is c 1k. Some good tips on here.
I found this article interesting. Doesn’t cover all your points but it at least tries to estimate the savings associated with each energy saving measure.
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/hub/quick-tips-to-save-energy/
I have a heated airer for winter instead of a tumble dryer. Means I don’t need to have the heating on to dry clothes, and clothes don’t sit there damp for ages going smelly. Well worth considering imo, even with small children. I was sceptical until I was given one, and it became one of the first lost-in-th-divorce items I replaced! https://www.lakeland.co.uk/21736/dry-soon-3-tier-heated-airer
Only boil as much water as you need rather than a kettleful for a single brew, perhaps.
Any spare water from the kettle goes in a thermos flask for the next brew.
When looking at the heating clean the radiators out and fit a magnet swirl pot to the boiler return pipework. Better flow and radiating heat from the whole panel not just the top.
Replacing double glazing almost never works out from either co2 nor cost perspective. Stick with what you have there, drill some holes above the frame if you want a trickle vent
Get the wife/kids to pay the gas/elec bill, then see how quickly the household becomes energy efficient.
Replacing double glazing almost never works out from either co2 nor cost perspective. Stick with what you have there, drill some holes above the frame if you want a trickle vent
Er, it definitely did for my father in law. The old stuff was leaky with aluminium frames that may as well have been the original single glazing for all the good it was. If it's 90's glazing the u value could easily be almost 2x a modern unit at the bare minimum. That's a lot of heat being lost if you have big windows. Trickle vents also have the benefit of being able to be closed and not a direct hole to the outside world.
He went from heating running 24/7 and a damp flat to barely running any heating and much improved dampness. Not sure on exact numbers he's saved but will be able to find out. That's a small "3 bed" top floor flat FWIW.
Our trickle vents are terrible. They don't seal fully shut so if it's freezing and/or windy outside we get draughts through them. Plus they allow noise in.
Here's a fact sheet from the government..
Replacing single glazing with the best double glazing would save the op around £100 per year, and cost what, £4k? 40 year payback. And the op already has double glazing so the cost is the same, but the saving way lower, maybe £10 per year, so a 400 year payback.
Halfing a very small amount of heat loss saves very little money
Replacing windows may help with things like dampness, but it's almost never effective from a pure cost perspective. The cost savings are basically a con perpetuated by large double glazing companies.
We replaced a draughty window recently but only as it’s in our toddlers room so better for keeping the temp a bit more consistent. It must be about 1.7m x 1.2m and was £600. I can’t see that being financially efficient for saving on heating bills.
FWIW though that was fitted about 6 weeks after order. We also got a replacement double glazed unit for another window that was cracked. That cost way less than £100 for what I would consider a normal sized window (the bit that opens). Was also fitted in under two weeks.
I read the first few posts and got bored. Here's some words from my limited experience: the second hose I owned was built in the 1800s. The previous owners, contrary to what they said did **** all to maintain. We had massive condensation issues, this was fixed entirely once a nuair drimaster was installed. I cannot recommend this product highly enough. At the same time, check and if required sort the loft insulation. We then moved to installing double glazing (use a reputable local installer, not a snake oil national chajn). And simple draft excluders on doors - really simple, cheap and bloody effective
Cheapest option for 3 months abroad ?
If you install a clothes pulley, you’d render the tumble dryer pretty much useless.
Before you fit the clothes pulley, it’s best to upgrade some of the hardware first.
The stock pulleys and hooks can fail after a couple of years.
I’d have a look around your marine supply shops for better hardware.
I calculated some of the return periods when I renovated, electricity was cheap then and was what I based it on. Everything was DIYed so no labour costs.
Roof, floor and wall insulation - between 2 and ten years assuming most heat was being lost through the roof before insulating. In terms of comfort it was doing the floor that was most noticeable, being able to walk around barefoot in Winter.
Replacing everything halogen with LED strips. The kitchen is better lit with one well-placed 18W LED than with 500W of spot lights. As the room used most the return was pretty much immediate.
PV under seven years
Oven 10 years IIRC 2KW rather tha 3.5kW
Solar thermal 11 years, in fact it was quicker because it was more efficient than expected.
Triple glazing instead of double, probably not in my lifetime at the time - now it would be worth it. I did it anyhow for the comfort.
If you DIY all of the above except triple glazing would pay back in well under 10 years at 50p/kWh.
Is there a reliable objective professional who I could pay to assess my house and suggest most effective/best value improvements? Don’t want an EPC or a builder who has a vested interest in the work.
We had a recent EPC for a house sale. The guy was very good at explaining stuff to us, what was cost effective, what wasn't etc. He wasn't aligned to any window firm, boiler co etc. Just impartial chatter. There's a cost obviously (£75 for ours) but I'd be wary of anyone coming to do a 'free survey', they've got to get their money somehow, their own product or companies they 'represent'
