[Closed] What's "high mileage" these days?

Even in the old days that was 5 years? Easy to do that in a couple of years. Depends more on the kind of miles really

High milage on young car probably indicates motorway miles, long journeys. Less wear on clutch, suspension etc on those trips, engine always run hot.

Low mileage on old car probably indicates short journeys, maybe town driving, more wear on clutches and gearboxes, more potholes, often on a cold engine.

Go with service history rather than mileage (50k isn't a lot, lowest I've ever bought was 79, still going strong 6yrs later)

50k miles?! That's youthful!  However.. 50k of 1 mile city journeys is very different to 50k of motorway cruising.

I'm on 156k, and still runs sweet, handles great and after 800 miles last week, not a single rattle, squeak or creak.

Buy off condition, service history and of you can get a truthful story... its usage.

I bought my VW Caddy Highline at less than 3yrs old with 110,000 miles on it, it was previously used as a VW service parts van between dealers (lookers) and I’d rather have high mileage/long journeys on a diesel than low mileage city driving.

IMO how the miles are done is more important than how many.

low miles, 5 miles at a time while riding clutch on way to pick up pension = dpf, dmf, egr, turbo issues.

boy racer thrashed over every speed bump, from cold to 5000rpm = turbo issues, suspension and wheel bearing on way out.

Sales rep doing motorway miles one up, leased and maintained, at 25k+ a year = should be ok

(generalisations now end)

50k is ok.

80-100k you're in clutch/timing belt/bits wearing out territory. Careful how much you pay.

100k+ = cheap car, but accept more bills.

Motorway miles are better for a number of reasons, easier on every part of the car, but still working the engine hard enough to get it hot.

engines that get ‘babied’ don’t tend to run that well, this is based on the last 4 diesel cars I’ve owned, they all ran better, and ‘seemed’ smoother and more powerful/quieter when they had had a long run and a bit of a workout.

look at the amount of old volvo/bmw/mercedes on autotrader that have 2-300,000 miles on them, 50k motorway miles is literally barely run in these days.

most cars are changed because of fashion.

this is actually good for me, because I would never buy a new car again.

I'd agree with above around 50K of motorway miles being nothing. I've done 35K in 1 year of purely motorway driving, the car went back pristine and scarcely run in.

I think the notes of caution I'd sound with "high mileage" these days are that

1) even with a good motorway life you are taking a bit of a punt on DPF life (post acquisition)

2) a lot of the mechanical parts seem to be more effective but more complex to maintain (e.g. think multi link suspension vs. trailing arm or torsion bar) and so wear and tear can be more expensive and regular; and

3) I am not convinced that new electronically complex cars will produce the same number of awesome moon and back cars that the early 2000s did.

I wouldn't say 50k is especially high mileage though. For me 40-60k miles has usually been about my purchase point in a 4 year old car.  The problem is you can get some of the mileage oriented stuff come round quick - latest car was a cambelt after a year and some suspension bushes.

I may lease next time as I've had a couple of expensive/irritating surprises on the current one but I do 20k a year so this stuff can come round quicker than average. My view is probably a bit biased by the last one being the ultra reliable mega miler.

Garage dweller, id agree, especially on 3.

I think it can depend on the manufacturer to an extent too. The wife's Fiat felt shot at 45000. My 3 series feels tight at 117000. To be fair my BMW was trotting up and down the motorway mostly for it's first 100000.

Seems some wear their miles better than others.

The number of miles is irrelevant, it's the type of miles. The limo company my company uses have cars that do nothing but go up and down the motorways between airports. All MB E-Class and they clock up nearly a million miles before they palm them off, and I've been driven in several that have done well over 500k miles and they are like brand new...tight as a drum, no rattles or squeaks, engines sound brand new, suspension feels like new. They're obviously fastidiously serviced and want for nothing from a maintenance perspective, and all dealt with through the dealer. I always ask how and where they palm them off to when they've finished with them, but it seems to be a very closely guarded secret. Even the drivers don't know as they are always looking to buy one once the company finishes with them.

Yep id agree with that too.

ive driven older audis that got used as pool cars, 300,000 miles+ and i can assure you they didn’t get an easy life in any way, and the only obvious signs were a slightly sloppy gearchange, and wear on the gear lever.

This would be a C Class or 3 series diesel estate.  Was looking at BuyaCar but am now reading some horror stories.  It’s looked good to be able to pick the car, decent finance rates  and delivery to the door but there’s lot of horror stories online...

Too good to be true, obvs.

Depends on the car, the 'type of miles', and how it's been treated.  Cars can feel really tired and sloppy at 50K, even when they have been well looked after.  Just as important is the expectations of the owner, and how sensitive they are to such changes.  Plenty of people won't care or be able to tell the difference, while it's night and day to others.

My old Ibiza (03 plate) was on 287k miles when i got rid of it  in early 2016 & it still drove fine.

Current Ibiza is a 12 plate (2 litre diesel) and on 86k miles. Still feels like nice & new apart from an annoying seat squeak.

But, it mainly gets driven on fast A-roads and the 4 lane stretch of the A1 so ideal conditions for a diesel. It should have had the VAG emissions 'fix' but after seeing lots of problems around clogged EGR valves, reduced performance & a more rattly engine note at low revs we decided to give that a miss. If it ain't broke....

You can't really say low mileage is bad, It still depends how the miles are done. I only do about 7K in my car, but none of those miles are on short trips, all long enough to warm up the engine, certainly no 1 mile trip to the shops. Obviously it's hard to know how the miles are put on, so average or higher is usually better (plus condition).

It's always intrigued me that cars are the only piece of machinery where the usage timescale is recorded in miles which can be misleading as well noted above.

Pretty much everything else is measured in the number of hours it has run which probably gives a better indication.

A car can be crawling through traffic for two hours and cover just 20 miles while a motorway cruiser can easily knock up 100 miles in the same time and probably incur less wear.

All larger outboard boat engines since about 2000 can be interrogated to see running hours and the actual usage in various rpm ranges to give a clear indication of its history.

Seems odd that we can't easily do this when buying a car.

I class over 150,000 as high now.. Although with my Mondeo on 125,000 and driving perfectly nicely along with costing me very little in upkeep in the last 2 years i've owned it, i'm not sure that even 150,000 is a massive problem these days. Mine cost me new rubber and pads/discs all round, but i had stuck on 45,000 since i bought it, so consumables are going to happen. Other than that, it's cost me nothign other than a quick service.

but there’s lot of horror stories online…

Too good to be true, obvs.

A small minority can make a big noise. No one goes online to complain their car didn’t fail.

Depends where you are comfortable with risk vs reward.

Personally I wouldn't buy a car with over 100K on, but that's just my little 'thing'. I bought a Passat 1.9 Tdi with 92K on & sold it at 235K. It was running perfectly but needed niggly stuff doing for an MOT.

Got my current 2.0 Mondeo with 69K on the clock & I've just changed the timing belt at 125K. It's still running nicely.

Don't get sucked into STW logic.  Contrary to what you read on here (usually cheapskates defending their purchase of a cheap high mileage vehicle), a low mileage vehicle is usually a much lower risk than a high mileage one.  Yes, of course there are always exceptions.  The type of miles are important, but how exactly can you guarantee how any second hand car has been used?  Second hand car dealers are of course, well known for their honesty.  I'm sure lots of people think they can judge how a second hand car has been used when they inspect it, but the truth is, very few really know what they are looking for beyond a few superficial tests.

Forget it just lease a new one.

Ignore anyone that says 120k miles is just run in for any engine.

And that completes the full round up of opinions I think.

BINGO

It’s always intrigued me that cars are the only piece of machinery where the usage timescale is recorded in miles which can be misleading as well noted above.

Pretty much everything else is measured in the number of hours it has run which probably gives a better indication.

The age of the car is usually prominently disclosed 🙂

Talking to a private taxi bloke the other day, those guys swap cars at 300,000. Lots of short journeys and town driving. The magic number of 100,000 miles is from the 70s - 80s and no longer relevant.

Forget it just lease a new one.

Not specific enough.  Just lease a new Berlingo.

"The age of the car is usually prominently disclosed "j

What's that got to do with the number of hours the engines been running ?

Nah no one leases berlingos with their own money. Motability have the market and keep the leases a rip off.

High mileage is a risk,  but a calculated one I took on my current car.

Bought a V70 at 3yrs old with 100k on it.

Seeing similar but older cars with 2-300k on them gave me confidence that the car was capable of high mileage if looked after.

In 3yrs it is difficult to do 30+k per year just going to the shops  in stop start traffic .

The drivers seat looked to be the only one that had ever been sat in regularly .

The Radio had pre programed local stations for the full length of the county.

There were business addresses in the sat nav and phone book for all the way between Aberdeen and Exeter

These gave me the confidence to risk a higher milage car as the cost savings , to me,  made it worthwhile .

Nothing has gone wrong so far .

What’s that got to do with the number of hours the engines been running ?

Nothing directly, but the age of the car has quite big influence on the price of the vehicle (the magnitude of this influence varies depending if it is really new, or really old).

Indeed it does because there's no better way to determine its wear .

Bit like people who use oftsted reports to decide what school their kids go to.

If there was a better way im sure sure folks would use it .

Of course as you say it's all about having that magic number plate so everyone can see you have a near new car ......even if it has 200000 miles on the clocks

Depends on the car, the ‘type of miles’, and how it’s been treated.

I'd support this.

As an example my XC60 (2014, now replaced) had 74k on it.. lots of A1/A3/M3/M27 and the occasional whiz around Town and some to-fro'ing to the club and back and some surfing trips. Spotless and Volvo serviced regardless.. I'd say it was in better condition than the day I picked it up.. and the dealer when I chopped it in said "it's one of the best looking examples I've seen in years" but then I've no kids, I'm a finicky old git and I hate dirty vehicles. I reckon the person that bought mine would literally have been impressed with the condition, without the dealer spending any time on it cleaning it.

But as we all know, you like new cars and new bimmers.. so

Forget it just lease a new one.

This.

I think I've taken every car I've owned to the 140K miles mark (plus/minus 10k). Probably similar usage over all of them: a mixture of rural commuting; long motorway journeys and urban driving. My current car is on 136K and showing no major problems, at that sort of distance my 1980s Cavalier was on its last legs as was the Astra that replaced it.

Modern cars and particularly engines have moved on a couple of generations in the last thirty years, they are far more reliable. It's the newer features like reversing sensors that tend to go these days - our car's on its third set - they are at the same point in their life cycle as engines were in the 1980s. We got rid of the last car when the front suspension began playing up on an annual basis, at close to £1000 a time it wasn't worth keeping going.

Edit: those who like clean cars would have a heart attack at the state of ours 🙂 I can't remember the last time I cleaned a car - the garage will clean it when it goes for a service.

Forget it just lease a new one.

I've been doing some very specific numbers.    What I'd like to do is get a Diesel car that if necessary I can give back in a couple of years should the market get into horror territory, but also that I haver the option to buy it.

My vision is that I can get a C Class estate now with 40-50k miles on it, add 30k in 3 years then carry on and own the vehicle which at the buyanycar.co.uk scenrio I'm looking at  £70 a month cheaper than leasing, £90 a month cheaper than dealer PCP, and has a £7000 ballon yet only 3.7% interest.   £7k for a 8yo C Class AMG Line with 80k miles which I can then keep on as a "Bangernomics" type vehicle feels right.

For my job I need a car that waft around M/Ways, but will also carry the bike(s) (Please do not bother with "what car" addendums to the thread), and this seems a decent way to finance a car which I can keep as the "works" car for a long period of time.

The same car on lease is £14k over 3 years but I'll not own it at the end.   This one is £9k over the same period with the option to buy - 'cause of the miles of course.

I bought an ex-lease with 105k on the clock. 5 years and nothing but consumables later and I've been very happy.

Test drive a few though. I found a huge difference in feel between cars of the same age and mileage.

If ever there is a case of 'Analysis Paralysis' over just a blo*dy car, this has to be it.

As always, you're comparing apples & bananas - the cost of a out of warranty used car, Vs the cost of something new on lease.

And I thought I changed my mind a lot.

FWIW, I wouldn't class 50k as high miles, but I do think the middle ground of cars 4-8 years old can be a bit of a gamble. They hold their value still, and can still run up big bills. I had a F91 3 series that was 6 years old, and on ~100k at the point of selling, it was probably worth £7k still (well, it was as that's what I sold it for) it drove nicely, but I knew being an N47 engine, there was the risk of a timing chain issue - being endlessly paranoid about start up noise & listening for the death rattle, the rear shocks were just starting to knock & be a bit bouncy, and the clutch was starting to judder when pulling away. All big bill items.

On the face of it though, the car was mint, with a FSH.

I now have a 4 months old Skoda Superb Estate on a PCP deal, which when you consider depreciation, repair costs & running costs, as a PPM absolute, its actually not far from the BMW.

And it was new, with a 5 year warranty (negotiated). It's on a 3 year deal & will go back with 100k+ on it. If it proves reliable, i'm sure it would be a great purchase for someone. But I certainly wouldn't be buying it at ~£10/12k though.

£7k for a 8yo C Class AMG Line with 80k miles which I can then keep on as a “Bangernomics” type vehicle feels right

Im not sure your getting the bangernomics concept. I’ll probably have to pay someone to take my car away....

As always, you’re comparing apples & bananas – the cost of a out of warranty used car, Vs the cost of something new on lease.

I take a different view - the cost of owning a German barge over the next 4 years with minimal financial risk and with future buying potential, bearing in mind I work in a high risk job (sales).

Of course, the least risk is to buy outright the 5yo 38k miles 120d sitting in my garage with a pending end to its PCP - but thats another story.

If ever there is a case of ‘Analysis Paralysis’ over just a blo*dy car, this has to be it.

I like to cover all bases...

That to me is a high risk motor. Old but too expensive to walk away from

If you have to have the number plate on the carpark at work it's hard to see past leasing for me.....and I'm anti lease

zut alors - It's a car thread - I thought it was about Louise! 🙂

If the car has been serviced properly....then I would say150000 miles is high.

I'd have no problem with 50000 on the clock.

That to me is a high risk motor. Old but too expensive to walk away from

I started thinking exactly that, which is why I started the thread...   My concern with lease is the bikes around it - batter the thing and its going to cost me a fortune with "Mr Dent Mobile"

Of course, the least risk is to buy outright the 5yo 38k miles 120d sitting in my garage with a pending end to its PCP – but thats another story.

Why don't you do that then ?

Why don’t you do that then ?

Its not the "future" car I want to own.  Its not auto which in. modern day M25 is almost an essential, could do with being a bit bigger (kids/bikes a la your Mondeo), I wouldn't mid a few extra's, Nav for example.

Its not the end of the world to keep it though, beggars can't be choosers, but I'd still need to fund £10k to do so.

but I’d still need to fund £10k to do so.

But one way or another you''ll have to do so anyway to replace it no ?

P.s. If you like it so much, i'll swap you the Mondeo for it 😀

<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">I take a different view – the cost of owning a German barge over the next 4 years with minimal financial risk and with future buying potential, bearing in mind I work in a high risk job (sales).</span>

As someone who manages a big sales team, I understand the risks (and rewards) of being in sales, the reality is we live at the whim of the board, and are only ever 3 months from being performance managed out of a business (well, other than the 6 month notice period).

I'm guessing (hope) you have a suitable war chest to cover the potential of losing your job? The reality is however, in today's world, that's not something specific to sales, everyone in a business carries that risk.

And i'd argue that a 9 year old German car with nearly 100k on the clock at that point runs the risk of certainly having a big bill.

Sure Hob Nob, but equally theres a risk of no job and a family to feed.

Where I am right now is that the "reward" would allow me the initial payment plus £200 a month for 3 years from separated car-specific funds already in a savings account with zero risk.  Thats not going to get me what I want.  Anything above £200 is risk.  The closer I can get to £200, the smaller the risk.   I appreciate thats whats being said here is that the risk from new/lease which is financially higher payments is basically moved to a risk on mechanical failure/cost of a higher milage vehicle.

You'll understand then that the same saved "fund" to pay the £200 could pay the 120d outright today.  Now, then I would be at 0 risk financially but with only 80% of the car I really want.  Of course, perhaps thats the knock I have to take to put myself in a zero risk position - like I said beggars can't be choosers.

Based on the last para, I'm off to read my guide to essentialism again... 🙂

In between crunching yet another set of numbers on yet another car related enquiry do you have any time left to actually ride your bike?

Then only you can decide on where the compromise will be.

Is it the vehicle, or the financial risk?

Having read back, you don't seem to be doing many miles, so one could argue there is less of a risk buying used, but my example with my old 3 series didn't work, because I do 30k a year, and i'm office based 90% of the time.

The cost of leasing something at ~200 a month, with 9x up front for 40k over 4 years (or 30k over 3 years) just doesn't really stack up to me - it's PPM is 22.5/30ppm. That's over double what I spend on a £40k car.

At 10k PA as well, there is no point in you having a diesel either.

In between crunching yet another set of numbers on yet another car related enquiry do you have any time left to actually ride your bike?

STW.  Most people don't actually ride :-).

The cost of leasing something at ~200 a month, with 9x up front for 40k over 4 years (or 30k over 3 years) just doesn’t really stack up to me – it’s PPM is 22.5/30ppm. That’s over double what I spend on a £40k car.

I'm trying to do the maths but yes, a second hand C class, 10k miles a year with £2500 down and £248 a month working out at 38ppm.   To keep my car it works out 20ppm, half price.  Its for me to decide whether the size, nav, leather, ride is with the extra 18ppm either on lease of PCP.

I aim for a combination of low total cost per mile and to minimise the number of times in my life I buy or sell a car. Not necessarily driven by absolute purchase price. Rightly or wrongly I've tended to think I achieve a decent balance of those things by buying at 40-70k ish and selling/scrapping/giving away when it's not really economical to keep them going, they really feel worn out or something catastrophic happens. Current routine services only mondeo at 150k is not at this point yet, or even showing signs of getting close. Bought at 40. That said, I do more miles than I used to and they're on the motorway so I value comfort more but my cars really should last well. Perhaps by pure luck I've not yet had a bad one.

I reckon someone limited by purchase price could buy my current car and get many years low trouble use out of it. They certainly could've at 100k. But it's a risk.

I want the next one to be electric, so next change will hopefully be driven by when I can get what I want from the electric car market and I might drag this one out as a result.

May not be of any interest, but the new V90 R-design estate is available on PCH at the moment for £2k deposit, £200 month, 8k annual mileage with 7.5ppm excess mileage on an 18 month lease. Looks like a great deal to me.

Could be useful to tide you over while you make your mind up........

"And i’d argue that a 9 year old German car with nearly 100k on the clock at that point runs the risk of certainly having a big bill."

Why? Where is the logic / technical justification for this? what is so magical about 100,000 that means the risk factor suddenly increases. It makes even less since when you think of it in terms of 160,000 KM? What's wrong with 100,000 KM and why doesn't this suddenly increase the risk factor?

It's is completely and utterly irrelevant. It all depends upon how the car has been driven, what are those 100,000 miles? are they motorway miles or popping down to the shops miles? That is the only thing that matters.

And I'm speaking as someone who used to run a >100k mile Porsche...and tracked it. It was faultless for the 6 years I ran it as a daily drive throughout the year in all weathers. Didn't miss a beat, ran tight as a drum, probably the best car I've ever had.

Pretty much any 9 year old car, regardless of mileage, runs the risk of having a large bill.  It's not that the risk suddenly increases as you pass 99K, it is that there is a much higher risk of problems with a car of that age and mileage.

so what you mean is based on a sample size of 1 .

It’s is completely and utterly irrelevant. It all depends upon how the car has been driven, what are those 100,000 miles? are they motorway miles or popping down to the shops miles? That is the only thing that matters.

-and how do you know that with any degree of certainty ?

If its a realistic option - rather than the tangibles , look at your extra 18ppm in terms of - its 18pence extra a mile on a car you know , know how its been treated , know whats been done to it , what hasnt been done to it. Ie the devil you know.

[i]May not be of any interest, but the new V90 R-design estate is available on PCH at the moment for £2k deposit, £200 month, 8k annual mileage with 7.5ppm excess mileage on an 18 month lease. Looks like a great deal to me.

Could be useful to tide you over while you make your mind up……..[/i]

30ppm. Not a great deal. But actually not bad, given the spec - they are a great car. I looked at one instead of my Superb funnily enough but couldn't get close to matching a deal.

[i]Pretty much any 9 year old car, regardless of mileage, runs the risk of having a large bill.  It’s not that the risk suddenly increases as you pass 99K, it is that there is a much higher risk of problems with a car of that age and mileage.</span>[/i]

Exactly that. My experience is once you get past ~6 years, the risks of bills seems to start to rise, and thus do the costs. There will always be the exceptions, but they are that, exceptions. You have to be realistic and something big might go wrong, and that's going to cost you.

"and how do you know that with any degree of certainty ?"

Exactly. So you go for a 50k mile car which you know just as little about and has half the running experience so less of an indication of condition, and there are no guarantees whatsoever that the car is going to be any better than a 200k mile motorway mile muncher. It's a risk and all you can do is mitigate risks as best you can and mileage is not a guaranteed way to mitigate risks. With a high mile car you can look at the service history and the maintenance history and if there is nothing much there, then its a safe bet it's in good shape and has a lot more history and evidence to support that. If you look at a 50k mile car you have half the service life to consider so a much higher risk factor.

Look on condition not miles, there are markers to indicate the type of duty the car has had. For a manual if the clutch pedal rubber is well worn and the gear knob then its most likely had a life of short journeys with lots of gear changes, for example. If you're that bothered about it pay for a proper inspection and from compression tests you can easily tell the wear rate of the cylinder head valves and cylinder bores....if a motorway mile muncher then  it'll  be barely run in, if not then it'll be further down on the wear rate chart.

Just depends how much you can be bothered to delve into it. When I bought my high mileage Porsche I went into it ALOT. Mechanical inspections, calling up garages and dealerships on the service history to confirm the service history, etc.. When I bought my high mileage Focus I didn't bother. And actually the Focus cost me a lot more than the Porsche in the end.

to summerise for those CBA to read all that. - luck has alot to do with it. the rest is just educated guesswork.

May not be of any interest, but the new V90 R-design estate is available on PCH at the moment for £2k deposit, £200 month, 8k annual mileage with 7.5ppm excess mileage on an 18 month lease. Looks like a great deal to me.

Where are you seeing this?  Notwithstanding I don't think It'll fit in my garage...

That V90 is an 18 month deal, so 12k miles total.  £2,000 up front plus 18*£200 is £5,600. So it's almost 50ppm isn't it?

0.466p yes.   Using this cost my BMW dealers offer is 0.57p a month.  Crikey thats an eye opener...

https://www.marshall.co.uk/volvo/new-car-offers/v90/

That V90 is an 18 month deal, so 12k miles total.  £2,000 up front plus 18*£200 is £5,600. So it’s almost 50ppm isn’t it?

Yeah, but if you take it  to 10k miles per annum, the add-on @ 7.5ppm is around £225 and the cost comes down to 36ppm.

Just had a another look, if you could slum it in the Momentum instead of R-design, doing the same 10k per annum it'd be a sniff over 29ppm.

Well, I may have to try a 50k miles car from that buyacar website and hope it doesn't go wrong.   A '15 plate 320d series sport tourer is 35ppm with 4% interest, delivered to my house over 3 years, £8k balloon and then its mine or not.

My son came up with a great idea to get a cheaper Beemer - get a 3 series GT 😀