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A 17% decline in trucks through Dover between 2017 and 2021 isn't my idea of "similar" even if it's yours, finefilly. Now look at the cars, and the coaches.
Madame used to take two busses of kids to the UK every year. She's stopped because Brexit means kids need a passport and a pile of paperwork she's not prepared to do. The end, she's taking them to Hamburg instead. Edit to add: the headmaster can't discrimate between kids on the basis of their origin, if the UK government won't accept kids in the group of non-French origin then no-one can go.
I used visit the UK but haven't been for years. It's now a pain with a French passport with all sorts of shit to fill in, and people don't want me and my foreign bloody car.
I don't order stuff from UK retailers any more, the billing and taxation are totally random. There are plenty of threads on here to say that's reciprocal.
Imports and exports between the UK and EU are down, look at the stats, 20% down is significant not similar.
All that to say that ferry companies operating Dover Calais have taken a big hit in traffic due to Brexit for which there has been no compensation. P&O have choices to make:
Make savings
Throw in the towel and use the boats elsewhere on more profitable routes if they can find them.
It’s now a pain with a French passport with all sorts of shit to fill in,
Without wanting to derail the thread, but I am interested to know what you need to fill in to visit the UK as a French passport holder ? As far as I know for the last two years any extra form filling has been due to covid ( travel locator forms, proof of vaccination, neg test results etc),but those requirements have now been removed (as of today), so you should just now he able to visit with just your french passport which is the same as you always used to need before Brexit.
My original comment was comparing 2019-2020 (ie before and after Brexit and CV19). So, er yea, it was similar. You're comparing my description to a longer time period.
I also acknowledge the passenger numbers were hit by CV19, but the truck numbers were similar, showing that Brexit had not massively affected the number of trucks through Dover from 2019 to 2020 (due to brexit). If you read the posts before mine, it might make more sense.
And I stand by my original comment that there are other ways to run a good business than just cutting costs. Its also pretty obvious that binning these 800 people won't save £100m per year either.
As far as I know for the last two years any extra form filling has been due to covid
My sister who lives in Madrid comes regularly to the UK on a French passport as her son and grandchildren live in London. The only restrictions I am aware of have been due to Covid, although she still came over and was in the UK about a month ago. She is coming over again in a week's time.
You're right Julians, I'd latched onto Priti Patel's announcements last year when Madame was looking into it but apparently they haven't been implemented, yet:
Une nouvelle formalité de voyage pourrait être instaurée après le Brexit, sous la forme d’une autorisation ETA similaire à l’ESTA américain. Il n’a pas été précisé si la formalité envisagée serait obligatoire pour aller en Grande-Bretagne uniquement (Angleterre, Ecosse, Pays-de-Galles), ou également en Irlande du Nord.
Il s’agirait d’obliger les étrangers, y compris les touristes et voyageurs d’affaires, à détenir un passeport valide et un eVisa officiel afin d’entrer au Royaume-Uni.
Jusqu’à présent, un visa Angleterre n’est pas nécessaire pour les Français. Actuellement, les voyageurs en provenance d’Union Européenne peuvent voyager outre-Manche munis d'un passeport valide uniquement.
Une autorisation électronique pour l’Angleterre, Ecosse, Pays de Galles, Irlande-du-Nord ?Le gouvernement britannique penche sérieusement sur un projet de eVisa, qui se nommerait probablement « Autorisation ETA - Electronic Travel Authorization ».
La durée de validité de cette autorisation serait de 3 mois. Au-delà, il faudrait effectuer des démarches supplémentaires pour rester sur le sol britannique.
Nul ne sait, à l’heure actuelle, si cette nouvelle obligation de Visa Royaume-Uni sera appliquée réellement, ni à quelle date. Notre site internet sera mis à jour dès que nous aurons de nouvelles informations.
If P&O wanted to make 800 people redundant they can but need to have a minimum of 45 days 'consultation' before serving notice. They didn't do this and that is illegal irrespective of anything else and whether they can save cash by paying poor wages.
If the crew we're on overseas contracts then this might not apply but their furlough claims during covid lockdowns were then fraudulent.
Either way I hope (but kind of doubt) that some directors end up in jail although I suspect it will be a way too small a fine and keep on cosying up to run tax avoiding freeports so there is less money to be spent on everything in the UK.
Although you can visit the UK on an EU passport without a visa I don't know whether you can with an identity card which is all most Europeans, particularly children, ever use. The UK is thankfully not a country where you have to show identity cards regularly. I also don't know whether you might need a work visa if a teacher with a school group which I think is the scenario that was described above and you would now need medical insurance for the UK etc. etc. Another educational opportunity missed for UK kids in having fewer exchange kids to learn foreign swears words and snogging with no common language and all those other things that happen on school exchanges.
Although you can visit the UK on an EU passport without a visa I don’t know whether you can with an identity card
No you can't travel to UK on an identity card, you've never been able to, even before Brexit.
I went to the UK on an ID card before Brexit. Very few of the kids on Madame's trips had passports.
I went to the UK on an ID car before Brexit.
Just googled and looksnlike imwrong about the Id cards ,you could use them before and you can still use them now,but only under more limited circumstances
I always thought travel on Id cards was a Schengen only thing.
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/whats-going-on-with-po/page/7#post-12294480
Missus is still on a paper ID card, gets very stern looks at passport control.. Have a nightmare getting a passport due to usual dodgy Italian rules
I've just asked Madame who's arrive home about the non-French/European kids on her trips and the thing that's changed is that they now need a prohibitively expensive visa. Previously they just needed a french carte de séjour and a document from the Mairie but now need a passport and a visa. For kids from African countries that's a fortune and the headmaster is not prepared to run a trip they would effectively be excluded from as that would be clear discrimination
slowol - it's not redundancy as the jobs still exist; it's a mass sacking with severance payment but it's still shit.
Totally reprehensible behaviour by P&O Ferries & DP World.
Just boycott ever using P&O. Unfortunately we always use the tunnel because of doggo.
it’s not redundancy as the jobs still exist; it’s a mass sacking with severance payment
I'm not an employment lawyer but I've experienced redundancy from multiple perspectives and also "sackings" of employees
Ignoring anyone who's been there less than 2 years, if these employees are subject to UK employment law, they can't be "sacked" for no reason.
P&O have massively F'd up here. As above, if they were claiming furlough for any of these employees, then they've either made fraudulent furlough claims or they've massively ballsed up the legally required redundancy process, or most likely a combination of both
The UK is thankfully not a country where you have to show identity cards regularly.
Way off topic, but you do you know. Try picking up a parcel from the post office, or going to a job interview (often passport for the latter). Or a BC race.
And I am expected to carry an ID card at work as are many others.
Whether right or wrong a company can legally make all its staff redundant and then rehire other staff. In theory it's the post not the person that goes but a lot of employers just shrug or say different pay for the new person so tough as that makes it a different job. There are more get outs than enough and try proving it in court. Plenty of firms done the fire and rehire on lower rates thing and it's not illegal and forget morals with a lot of firms. Pretty much the best you can get from an employment tribunal for being sacked unfairly is 3 months pay and that's if you can afford a lawyer and a 2 year wait.
What isn't legal is not doing some 45 day consultation which is often a sham and IME companies rarely do anything but tell what they are doing rather than consulting and listening.
UK employment law is far too biased to the employer. To have very publically appear to have broken the law as well as acting immorally is quite a feat.
The UK is thankfully not a country where you have to show identity cards regularly.
Nor is France, you don't even have to possess one. Very useful though:
It's free
I can travel all around Shengen with it
It avoids being hauled off to the cop shop by suspicious cops with nothing better to do than find out who you are.
It's all you need in your pocket to accomplish a host of adminstrative tasks.
It means that people, especially non drivers, aren't excluded from doing things they are entitled to by petty jobsworths who don't believe how old they are.
Don't tell the red tops though, that would spoil their fun. 🙂
To have very publically appear to have broken the law as well as acting immorally is quite a feat.
To be fair to Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem I suspect that these are not issues which he generally has to concern himself with.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/po-ferries-sackings-brexit-uk-eu-employment-law
The consensus is that this has nothing to do with Brexit. Some of the remarks on this thread haven't aged well.
Nice to see our resident Lexiteers are all in agreement that Brexit is all still absolutely bloody brilliant!
Carry on…
The employment law has nothing to do with Brexit but the fall in traffic which has lead to P&O losing money has everything to to with Brexit long term and Covid short term, Ransos. Brexit is one of the reasons they're trying to cut costs, however Brexit has not enabled the ruthless way they've fired the workers.
Yeah binners, how dare the Guardian publishes expert legal advice which contradicts your assertion that P&O's callous and appalling behaviour was the result of Brexit.
What were they thinking when they said this :
Andrea London, a partner in law firm Winckworth Sherwood’s employment team, said Brexit was a “red herring”. She said the EU collective redundancies directive was implemented in the UK by a primary act of parliament which “gold-plated” (went beyond) the EU legislation, adding: “Given its longevity and trade union backing, it is firmly entrenched in the UK employment law environment, and there inevitably would be considerable opposition to any repeal or paring back of the protections in this act due to leaving the EU.”
They also quote some so-called "barrister". Pfft..... I would rather take the word of some random geezer on a MTB forum who claims to do colouring in for a living.
A question:
My sister is intent that the P&O have sacked the workers and hired foreign ones in to replace them.
She's rabidly pro Boris/ Brexit.... can someone confirm or deny this is the case?
She's not too concerned about the sacking, more about who is replacing them...
Cheers.👍
Your sister is incorrect - they appear to have illegally fired them and replaced them with UK based agency workers. I don't know how much cheaper this is , but presumably the cheaper the better.
Is she expecting the same to happen to her?
. Pfft….. I would rather take the word of some random geezer on a MTB forum who claims to do colouring in for a living.
Now who is it who whittles wood for a living? 😉 I haven't done anything for a living for nearly 20 year's.
wbo
Free Member
Your sister is incorrect – they appear to have illegally fired them and replaced them with UK based agency workers. I don’t know how much cheaper this is , but presumably the cheaper the better.Is she expecting the same to happen to her?
Cheers. No, she's retired. Just doesn't like foreigners. Unless they are treating her in the NHS.
It's a couple of agencies that are doing the hiring not P&O. P&O claim not to know what they are paying. The agencies have definitely recruited staff in the UK, although I don't know if they also have from elsewhere.
The UK is thankfully not a country where you have to show identity cards regularly.
The UK unfortunately confuses having to show ID cards with making them available to citizens. If you don't have a passport or driving licence there are things you cannot do, eg, setting up an online account with HMRC. You also have to have certain things like bank statements as paper records, for ID purposes. We should just have an ID card with a QR code giving encrypted proof of validity.
Apologies if this point as been made before, but for all those who are justifiably going to boycott P&O, be aware that P&O Cruises is a completely unconnected company to P&O Ferries. The cruise company is getting stick from people who think it's the same.
Nice to see our resident Lexiteers are all in agreement that Brexit is all still absolutely bloody brilliant!
Carry on…
No surprise that you failed to respond to what I said, or to acknowledge that you were completely wrong with your earlier comment. I'd stick to the well-remunerated colouring in, because you're out of your depth here.
You lot do seem quite interested in my colouring in for some reason. You’re just jealous because you could never keep your felt tips between the big black lines, aren’t you? It’s quite literally an art form
And well-remunerated? You betcha comrade! This country is just full of graphic designers and illustrators musing over the specs of their new Range Rovers. The trouble is the garage space with all the Ferrari’s.
Back on topic though: glad to see that the Brexit you wanted is all you hoped for. It is all that you hoped for, right? It sure looks like a socialist utopia to me
Back on topic though: glad to see that the Brexit.....
Yeah but that's not the topic. The topic is P&O's reprehensible behaviour which has nothing to do with brexit.
If you are keen to discuss brexit there is a thread dedicated to the subject.
which has nothing to do with brexit.
This has EVERYTHING to do with Brexit. This is quite literally the blueprint for future employer/employee realationships in Brexit Britain.
This is literally what ‘Britannia Unchained’ Brexit was about
The owners of P&O are busy setting up Freeports on behalf of a Tory government, so don’t expect any sanctions from their partners in establishing the UK as the money laundering capital of the world (don’t mention the war!)
And the best thing about it is that they got a bunch of lefties to vote for the greatest assault on workers rights this country has ever seen, and you lot - socialists, right? - are on this thread still defending it now
Useful idiots
Apparently binners there's some weird lenticular clouds tonight, why don't you go outside and yell at them?
I would doubt that the owners have said, look, Brexit.. lets boot everyone out . But they will have looked at softened labour laws, or so the impression is given, and hoped to take advantage. I'd be curious why, but I guess they're hoping to get rid of all the accessory costs that come with perm employees, and then go to contract as they can cut out rubbish like pensions and sick pay, and easily boot them out when the options there to get very cheap staff from other countries.
I would guess the owners are out to maximise the dividend and then run P and O into the ground till it collapses
I regularly throw my shoes at the sky to protest about clouds
Doesn’t change anything, comrade
This has EVERYTHING to do with Brexit
Evidence for this claim? Preferably links to reliable sources rather than primary school memes.
I would agree it has a lot to do with having a hard right bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK but then I would also suggest that possibly those lunatics were helped by the useful idiots ranting and raving about Corbyn and coming out with absolutely hilarious comments about allotments whilst saying anyone who supports Corbyn was a sixth former might have been useful idiots for the hard right.
You can try and slice it any way you like but the bottom line is that when it comes to Brexit ‘The Left’ we’re absolutely aligned with the Faragist right
What we’ve seen with the sacking of 800 P&O staff is the future of employment rights in the UK. It’s the inevitable direction of travel with the establishment of the UK as the ‘offshore’ centre of the world as it races to the bottom as Singapore-on-sea. Freeport’s are just centres for international tax evasion and money laundering. Have a look which company is leading the charge on behalf of their Brexiteer mates in the Tory party. They never gave a monkeys about the ferries anyway, it’s all about the ports, soon to be ‘Freeport’s’
Have a read of No Logo by Naomi Klein to see how these Freeport’s or ‘Export Processing Zones’ pan out once established. It’s not pretty.
And all this has been enabled and voted for by ‘The Left’
Like I said: useful idiots, if I’m being diplomatic
Absolute ****ing mugs, if I’m not
Back on topic though: glad to see that the Brexit you wanted is all you hoped for. It is all that you hoped for, right? It sure looks like a socialist utopia to me
Sigh. I see you're still incapable of admitting that your tedious rant was wide of the mark. But we all know how this goes: give it a while and you'll deny ever having said it. I'm not sure if you're dishonest or just easily confused.
I’m permanently befuddled. Does that help?
So how’s your socialist utopia, free from the tyranny of the EU working out for you? Maybe ask any of the 800 sacked P&O workers how it’s working out for them? And all the thousands that will inevitably follow now that this is the new normal
I’m permanently befuddled. Does that help?
So how’s your socialist utopia, free from the tyranny of the EU working out for you?
I'd try taking more water with it.
Maybe ask any of the 800 sacked P&O workers how it’s working out for them?
I don't think you care at all about them. They're just a vehicle for your predictable rants, which reliably fail to engage with trivialities like truth.
I don’t think you care at all about them
Oh… did I forget to express my solidarity with them via Twitter?
Maybe I should start an online petition and share it on Facebook?
I do apologise for for my insufficient dedication to virtue signalling
Oh… did I forget to express my solidarity with them via Twitter?
Really? You havent shared some absolutely hilarious screenshot? I am... disappointed.
I do apologise for for my insufficient dedication to virtue signalling
Carry on like that and people might start to think that you don't argue in good faith.
I would agree it has a lot to do with having a hard right bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK
That is Brexit. You just haven’t accepted it yet.
I’m permanently befuddled.
I'm not surprised. Yesterday the Guardian, which I know you hold with the same reverence as some do the Bible, had a lengthy editorial on the issue of the 800 sacked P&O employees. Nowhere did they blame brexit for what they claimed was "capitalism’s unacceptable face".
You must have been devastated and confused when you realised that they weren't blaming brexit.
That is Brexit. You just haven’t accepted it yet.
Actually it isnt since brexit was a symptom not the cause but heyho who am I to argue with a political expert like you.
Carry on like that and people might start to think that you don’t argue in good faith.
It is fascinating how often Binners repeats the hard right attack lines.
By pointing out how often recently the aims of the ‘hard right’ seem totally indistinguishable from those of ‘The Left’?
Righto….
If you go far enough in either direction, you meet in the middle around the other side. As you lot constantly demonstrate.
What mystifies me is what you get out of it? It’s obvious what the hard right get out of it. I’m just baffled as to why you lot keep facilitating it. I’m sure the 800 sacked P&O workers are wondering that too
Apart from the solidarity expressed on Twitter. I’m sure that was a great comfort
Thoughts and prayers…
I’m just baffled as to why you lot keep facilitating it. I’m sure the 800 sacked P&O workers are too
Apart from the solidarity expressed on Twitter. I’m sure that was a great comfort
How many of those 800 sacked P&O workers do you think share your opinion?
How much comfort do you think hearing you blaming brexit and lefties would bring them?
You voted for it. You tell me.
You seem to have misunderstood the question binners. I know you said that you are permanently befuddled so I'll try to repeat it in a more direct manner.
The question was how many of the 800 sacked P&O employees, which you care passionately about, share your view that it's all the fault of brexit and lefties?
The ones with anything between their ears?
I don’t know how many share your viewpoint and thus actively enabled a far right coup
How’s Lexit going? Come up with any benefits yet?
A 17% decline in trucks through Dover between 2017 and 2021
This isn't really to do with trade with the UK, it's more about Irish hauliers taking a direct ferry route to France rather than pounding down UK roads to Dover.
The new ferry routes have benefitted Irish ports, but that's about it. The journey takes longer, is more frequently disrupted by bad weather and because of the imbalance in trade between Europe and Ireland frequently results in expensive-to-run lorries returning empty.
A lorry driving from Wales to Dover will add approximately zero to the UK economy apart from ports and ferries, which is the discussion here.
Is it because of Brexit? Lower numbers of lorries certainly is
Of that 17% you attribute some to route changes but not all. I suggest the main impact is Brexit as the number corresponds pretty well to the drop in trade which depending on which figure you take and for what period is pretty close. For example:
https://obr.uk/box/the-initial-impact-of-brexit-on-uk-trade-with-the-eu/
I’m sure the 800 sacked P&O workers are wondering that too
They might wonder why some internet nobody is using them to create fake attack lines for his usual targets. Not a nice thing to do of course, but unsurprising.
The only reason i mentioned Brexit earlier in this thread was regarding that the government should use some of those 'new' independent from the EU abilities to clamp down on P&O, as this could be the first of many, and it'll be a real telling point about this government, are they in for the old pals network, or actually using brexit where it could actually bring benefit.
Of that 17% you attribute some to route changes but not all
There's a connection. Pre-Brexit those Irish hauliers would have run a return load from Europe to the UK to avoid an empty truck, which is much less likely now. Brexit hasn't just affected the UK
some of those ‘new’ independent from the EU abilities to clamp down on P&O
I didn't think that UK legislation had been changed from the EU version yet, isn't it part of the agreement?
Apologies if I'm repeating what's been said already
Apols if already mentioned, but Irish Ferries did this many years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/dec/01/g2
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/dublin-port-staff-refuse-to-handle-irish-ferries-ships-1.1185536
Despite the protests they ultimately achieved their aim, if you travel on one of their ships with the exception of a few senior crew, all the staff are eastern European. IF is doing pretty well considering, the Irish public has moved on and still uses them consistently, they have invested in new ships and new routes inc dover - calais.
EU country, EU business & EU laws, and they got away with it. Brexit might have worsened the financial situation for P&O but it is the lack of political will and lax application of workers legislation that will see this through.
EU country, EU business & EU laws, and they got away with it.
Yep, I imagine the problem is the now-ubiquitous habit of registering ships under flags of countries with little or no regulation, oversight, or crucially, tax and then driving them around making money at the expense of the employees.
Fire and rehire took place in many forms over Covid and I don't remember there being much outrage about it then.
Brexit might have worsened the financial situation for P&O......
According to the Guardian editorial of a couple of days ago P&O's claim that the sacking of 800 crew and their replacement with agency staff was necessary to remain viable "does not stack up". Quote :
The ferry operator’s chief executive, Peter Hebblethwaite, its third in three years, said the company had to sack workers and replace them with cheaper crew to remain viable. This does not stack up. P&O’s owner DP World, the state-owned ports operator, was flush with cash and could afford to pay sailors properly. This month DP World announced bumper profits of $896m (£751m) in 2021, up from $846m in 2020.
As far as I am aware at no time has P&O blamed the affect of brexit for the their actions. And as a staunchly pro-Remain newspaper you can be certain that the Guardian would be the first to point out any connection with brexit.
They might wonder why some internet nobody is using them to create fake attack lines for his usual targets. Not a nice thing to do of course, but unsurprising.
Have you ever heard binners speak kindly of RMT members? I believe that he despises them as much as a Daily Mail columnist does.
Just because the Guardian doesn’t draw a connection to Brexit doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
The gov knew about the terminations ahead of time and did nothing to stop them. Even aided them.
U.K. employment rights have already been eroded. Cheap overseas labour have taken those roles at P&O previously filled by U.K. staff.
Freight rates are down on British routes.
These are all Brexit dividends.
Someone asked the nationality of the replacements, Columbian according to Les Echos:
Ils seront remplacés par des Colombiens et des intérimaires, déjà recrutés par la compagnie, afin de réduire de 50 % la masse salariale, selon les sources syndicales, furieuses de ce procédé.
DP World might be profitable, P&O ferries is no longer. Put yourself in the DP world CEO's shoes Eernie, what would you do? I'd find a way of making P&O profitable, sell it, asset strip or redploy the boats.
The Guardian article ignores P&O ferries' financial situation. I assume you're refering to this uniquely worker rights orientated pience - poor jounalism, it ignores the bigger picture. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/po-ferries-sackings-brexit-uk-eu-employment-law
As far as I am aware at no time has P&O blamed the affect of brexit for the their actions
If I was hoping to get an easy ride from the government for any questionable employment practices I wouldn't be blaming Brexit either. And whilst I don't have knowledge of the inner working of DP world I doubt that propping up loss making parts of their organisation is a viable long term plan for them.
If you re-read my post you'll see that I am not blaming Brexit for this, in fact the analogy I shared proves quite the opposite, but the financial implications of Brexit (or even CV19 for that matter) will undoubtedly have been part of their decision making process. It seems daft to ignore that reality.
EU country, EU business & EU laws, and they got away with it. Brexit might have worsened the financial situation for P&O but it is the lack of political will and lax application of workers legislation that will see this through.
Don't be coming round here with your "facts" and "simple logic" - we need Monty Python screenshots.
Don’t be coming round here with your “facts” and “simple logic” – we need Monty Python screenshots.
too stressful, could pick the wrong meme, how about this?
The Sunday Times has a good article on the financial pressure faced by P&O.
It attributes much of the pressure to competition on more routes by Irish Ferries - who did the same fire / rehire foreign crew in 2005:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/30/transport.uk
On comparable routes, the wage bill savings from Irish Ferries use of staff on low wage maritime contracts ($2-3 an hour) means they can undercut P&O’s operating costs by around 25-35%.
So for all the “if we had been in the EU this wouldn’t have happened” the reality is that it’s competition from an EU ferry firm that sacked its workers some years ago that has resulted in the collapse in P&O’s profitability - with the company making three years of increasing losses starting in 2019 before Brexit negotiations were even concluded.
Other articles also confirm:
- the employment contracts are registered in Jersey
- the trading entity can legally contract with a Swiss registered firm for the supply of maritime staff
Ergo, P&O have acted in a brutal manner but likely legal manner to save business in the face of “unfair” competition from an EU registered competitor that pays its own crew $2-3 an hour.
“capitalism’s unacceptable face”
That is Brexit. You just haven’t accepted it yet. Looking forward to these same employers working with the government in the light regulation free ports they have planned?
starting in 2019 before Brexit negotiations were even concluded
Imagine if trade was already being reorganised before we left the EU, because, well, it wasn’t a secret that we were leaving, or that we weren’t seeking a close deal that would reduce the impact of us leaving on trade. In fact, all the talking up of “no deal” meant Ireland, The Netherlands and France in particular were preparing for the absolute worst case scenario.
So despite brexit promising to protect British jobs against EU rules this has been allowed to happen? I consider that a massive brexit failing.
British jobs
"British jobs" what do you mean British jobs?
As a point of detail (and regardless of the legality of the dismissal), it's definitely redundancy as they are not replacing the sacked staff, they are buying in this service from a subcontractor.
All the tories with their crocodile tears - and those sho voted for them - can **** right off. This is precisely what the tory vision is, there's never been any ambiguity about it. Making it easier to fire people is a key goal of theirs.
“British jobs” what do you mean British jobs?
Jobs in Great Britain undertaken by its citizens? As opposed to jobs in Great Britain undertaken by foreigners or jobs outside Great Britain?
The time to clarify this would have been before brexit I guess, but I voted remain so hadn't believed the promises regardless.
it’s definitely redundancy as they are not replacing the sacked staff, they are buying in this service from a subcontractor.
It is definitively NOT redundancy as the work being done and the numbers of jobs is not changing; it's a mass dismissal.
The fact that a subcontractor is involved is irrelevant.
Refer to ACAS website for definition and explanation of redundancy.
i worked for P&O a long time ago. minimum 14 hours a day if the ship was running on time, longer of it wasnt.
Worst company i ever worked for, voted with my feet and left after 3 months.
every shipping company will tell you they arent making money, and the outsourcing of foreign labour has been going on for years. The only reason there are (were) so many brits working on the english channel route was because of the French who protected it as only the French can do.
It is definitively NOT redundancy as the work being done and the numbers of jobs is not changing; it’s a mass dismissal.
The fact that a subcontractor is involved is irrelevant.Refer to ACAS website for definition and explanation of redundancy.
If an employer decides to outsource the work being done by a particular group or class of employees, this technically creates a redundancy situation, as the employer will stop carrying on that particular type of work.
Ultimately its pretty irrelevant, unless P&O all of a sudden find a conscience they will just buy their way out of the problem and by the time the holiday season starts any repetitional damage will be forgotten about as people just want cheap ferry tickets.
@frankconway, can you quote something more specific to justify your opinion? Just saying it's on a website somewhere isn't very convincing.
Jobs in Great Britain undertaken by its citizens? As opposed to jobs in Great Britain undertaken by foreigners or jobs outside Great Britain?
The issue here is the sacking of 800 P&O employees and their replacement with agency staff on much lower rates and employment conditions. The nationality of those affected is irrelevant, unless you are some sort of bigot. Are you assuming that the 800 sacked all had British nationality?
That is Brexit.
Capitalism doesn't have an unacceptable face in the EU? Of course everyone in the EU loves capitalism without question. It's why they never have strikes or protests in the streets when big business screws them over. I see the fantasy that the EU is a liberal socialist utopia still has legs. It's quite bizarre.