[Closed] What would you rather have - more money or better quality of life?

I'm sure you can both, or neither.

Everyone whose primary motivation is to start a thread in relation to anything scotlandish should be deported there. Immediately.

Surely the two go together?

But those who want a better quality of life will learn two things (IMHO).

1/ A Scottish government, will over time, seem very much like any other government is by the general population.
2/ Oil money does not last forever and the promised better quality of life somewhat depends on it.

Surely the two go together?

What a horrible thought. Never met a poor person who was happy, or a rich person who was miserable?

Seems absolutely bang on to me.

Seem a bit simple to me.

I take it you dislike people who are materialist.
You vote Yes.
Tell me if it is possible that you are biased.

Quality of life for me ,hands down

Sounds more like a half-witted observation by someone trying to feel superior about voting yes to me... Is your boss Alex Salmond?

I take it you dislike people who are materialist.

Tell me if it is possible that you are biased.

Biased against what exactly?

Voting in what?
Surely not [b]another [/b] Scotland thread??

Everyone whose primary motivation is money is voting no.

Everyone whose primary motivation is quality of life is voting yes.

Seems absolutely bang on to me.

Complete and utter sh*te!!
Stick to starting threads about how a Londoner should not lead Better Together. More your style.

I gave up a very well paid but stressful job to run a business I love and have a good family life. I'm voting yes.

But I know a minister, probably the least selfish person I've ever met and a very good man, who is voting No.

So no, I don't think there's any connection.

Like everything Bencooper there are shades of grey, but I think there is a definite link. Add in risk averse and short- sightedness to the motivated by money and we're probably getting more accurate.

Since retiring I am time rich, money poor and all the healthier, happier and enjoying life a whole lot more 😉

Nope, he's not risk-adverse or short sighted either. Neither are the few other No voters I know.

We might be on opposite sides on this, but it does no-one any favours to make generalisations. Better to understand that, while we might not agree with them, no voters do sometimes have valid reasons for voting the way they do, just as we do.

Nope, he's not risk-adverse or short sighted either. Neither are the few other No voters I know.

I wish I was meeting the same No voters that you are.

Wot Ben said.

OP looks like bias horse crap. Tbh.

All the no voters I know are none of those things, me included.
Good try though.

Problem is the two are inextricably linked, whether you like it or not.

After a certain point, I do find that people with excessive amounts of money are often maladjusted and paranoid.

This is a product of judging yourself solely on how much dosh you've got and isolating yourself by moving in circles that only rich people are allowed in, thus reinforcing the entitlement/nervousness.

Nowt as queer as folk.

Personally I like to have enough to buy bits and pieces for my bike, not have to worry about paying bills too much and have a holiday with the wife and kids each year. Anything on top of this is a bonus, but I'm not going to cripple myself working to obtain it because why have more money when you haven't got the time or energy to enjoy it?

I think the OP needs to add . 'Born in London'

Can I have money for, say, 3 years then go back to quality of life?

Is this a vote?

Seem a bit simple to me.

+1

Bencooper - way back at the beginning of one of the other threads you said you and your family were seriously considering moving to somewhere in Scandinavia if there was a No vote. Do you still feel the same way?

I'll probably head to Australia if it turns out that way.

Tell me if it is possible that you are biased.
Biased against what exactly?

So this:

Nope, he's not risk-adverse or short sighted either. Neither are the few other No voters I know.
I wish I was meeting the same No voters that you are.

Shows no prejudice at all.

Bencooper - way back at the beginning of one of the other threads you said you and your family were seriously considering moving to somewhere in Scandinavia if there was a No vote. Do you still feel the same way?

We've got some land in Maine, might do that.

No, probably not. Got a decent business and a decent life here. If there's a No vote, will heave a deep sigh, shake my head, and start planning for the next referendum.

Problem is the two are inextricably linked, whether you like it or not.

Once you control for starving to death, freezing your bollocks off or living under an authoritarian dictatorship, then it's not entirely clear. It's certainly correlated with living in the developing world.

However, Costa Ricans for example are happier than Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index

I'll probably head to Australia if it turns out that way.

Thats a long way to go to live in a country who's people are dragged into illegal wars. 😉

I saw this first hand. Was in Hobart at the time when protests were happening in 2003.

It's a long way to go, but the quality of life is much higher than it is here at present.

Meh, you'd be surrounded by Aussie accents though. It'd be like living in a ****ing nightmare. "GDAYYY MAATE!". ARGHHHH. My friend went off and lived there and came back with a full Aussie accent, we were in mourning for weeks.

There are two types of people in this world. Those who speak the truth and those who speak in dichotomies.

Well the risk is that yes will lead to less money for everyone so it's a good job if the yes voters aren't worried about money!

We've been in the position where we had loads of cash, but no time - so bought extra holiday back from work

The Mrs now no longer has a paid job, and is time rich (relatively) - I work a longish day. I'd prefer more time, but need to make sure we can maintain a reasonable standard of living.

Overall I would prefer a better quality of life - but need the cash to support the goals that we have.

I'd say it's a balance

Hate the referendum - it's brought out some ugly stuff in people, just want the thing done now

Out of interest. How will Scotland being Independent lead to a better quality of life?

Well the risk is that no will lead to less money for everyone so it's a good job if the no voters aren't worried about money!

Runs both ways that one

Out of interest. How will Scotland being Independent lead to a better quality of life?

People might think that they have more control over their lives. Fairly basic tenant of psychology.

People might think that they have more control over their lives. Fairly basic tenant of psychology.

I get that as a point of principle but surely if having more control means having significantly lower wealth - to the point of difficulty/discomfort, then the feeling of quality of life is negatively impacted, no?

ie: the principle is likely to only be true to a point and depending on other variables?

I get that as a point of principle but surely if having more control means having significantly lower wealth - to the point of difficulty/discomfort, then the feeling of quality of life is negatively impacted, no?

ie: the principle is likely to only be true to a point and depending on other variables?

Yes, like everything in life, happiness will depend on a balance of variables that is different for every individual.

I think many of the yes voters do not believe they will see a big drop in standards of living, so the idea of having a government that they feel more directly represents them will be massively appealing.

Wan - come and live in Cumbria - the quality of life is great and its way closer than Australia with similar weather to Scotland so you wouldn't feel homesick!

And most of us don't like Cameron either so plenty of common ground 🙂

AD - I lived on the other side of the Solway Firth for a great many years. Quality of life is pretty good, but a change of politics could make it a lot better.

and start planning for the next referendum.

I thought this was a once in a lifetime opportunity?

I thought this was a once in a lifetime opportunity?

Westminster might arrange it so we never get another chance - but if it's a no vote there's still going to be a lot of people unwilling to just forget the independence idea.

They can move to the Isle of Man.

At first I thought this was a troll but I think it might be serious.

I'm in the fortunate position to make enough money to live on, and have a decent quality of life. From my pov a yes outcome puts that at more risk than a no vote, so for me voting no is a no brainer.

I have a lot of friends and some family who are voting yes though. We'll see I guess.

 but if it's a no vote there's still going to be a lot of people unwilling to just forget the independence idea.

So ben, if it is a no vote are you hoping that the people of Scotland 'continue to suffer' to prove a point? You did previously say that you would support devo max if it was meaningful. Are you hoping this fails at the first hurdle?

 

I have my quotes the wrong way round!

We've not been offered Devo Max, so I don't think that situation will arise.

No we have not, however other parts of the UK are now looking to Scotland and thinking things can change for us all. In the result of a No vote do you hope devolution does not happen to support an independence agenda?

So you would prefer Scottish wages to be lower, because you are all going to take it easy, and not work that hard ?

That will mean not as much tax revenue so services won't be as good. Plus things will be more expensive so you won't be able to afford nice things (luxuries like bikes) or decent food.

Eventually your health will suffer from eating nothing but deep fried mars bars and you will need the NHS, but then the NHS won't be there as 1. There is no tax revenue to pay for it 2. The NHS in Scotland used to be subsidised by Whitehall, and you quite politely told us to f-off.

It's a nice romantic gesture that Scotlandshire can become in independent and life will be great, but the reality is you will all have to generate more revenue to stay afloat.

My gas engineer works 7days/all hours. Mental.

I think you'll need to agree how "quality of life" is measured before you can do this equation. Is it a new merc every year and a holiday in vegas and or good food and some friends to share it with or something else altogether. You'll also need to agree what "money" is, someone on benefits in the UK would be considered wealthy on most of the world.

No we have not, however other parts of the UK are now looking to Scotland and thinking things can change for us all. In the result of a No vote do you hope devolution does not happen to support an independence agenda?

Depends. If proper federalism happens, then as I've said all along I'd vote No. But we've not been offered that, we've not been offered Devo Max, what we have been offered is maybe some more tax raising powers - and they're a poison chalice, meaning actually less money for Scotland instead of more.

So I hope the devolution that's being offered doesn't happen. I hope it doesn't happen because we vote Yes, but if it's a No then I hope it doesn't happen because it's a very bad deal for Scotland. Not because of an independence agenda.

I would rather good health.
- Sometimes more money is required to maintain or regain good health.
- Sometimes more time is required to maintain or regain good health.

money = time
time = money

It's ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that's what they are all about?

When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

Traded money for a better quality of life 14 years ago. Moved north-ish so we could afford to have a family on just one salary(or two small/part time salaries). Been great watching the kids grow, having cheap but fun UK holidays, start school, get involved with activities that a lot of parents miss out on. Wondered why I spent so long chasing money and then wasting it.

Eldest now at secondary, youngest not as dependent either. Cost of living has shot up, costs of activities, trips and uniforms for the kids has also gone up.

I'm now 10 years into a rut of a job that I hate, has no prospects and has left me deskilled to go back to the private sector. Starting to look at training to break the cycle and start to move on again, but a bit more money would be nice!

It's ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that's what they are all about?

When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

You are either trolling or stupid.

Oh yeah? Well you are being needlessly inflammatory.

Don't know if he's stupid but certainly missed the point, suspect it was an eagerness to continue an argument that exists only in his head.

Ok - assuming you are serious. This "English" you speak of - are you saying that they are all experts on economics and predicting the future? What about the Welsh and Northern Irish? Are you saying that you and all of the people living in England are an expert on Scottish economics because that is what your post suggests. Are you saying that you personally know more about Scotland, its future and what its people want and aspire to than those of us who live here? Are you expecting us to believe a word that vested interests tell us? The only jobs, healthcare, pensions and social security that you are worried about are those in your area.

So I'll rephrase and change my statement - you are either trolling or think we're stupid.

No I think you missed my point, wan.

The original question seems to contain a strong yes subtext. That is, if you vote no on economic grounds you must be avaricious and materialistic. Some people in the yes camp seem to be saying 'well life is good, I don't need any more money so why should I worry about economics?'

To have a good quality of life you don't need tons of money, but you need enough to keep the worries away. This is not guaranteed in the UK and won't be guaranteed in Scotland either.

The only jobs, healthcare, pensions and social security that you are worried about are those in your area.

Seriously - WHAT?

It's ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that's what they are all about?
When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

You wrote that.... What do you mean by it with regards to my questions.

Can you just answer my questions and try to keep up with the debate.

I did, I thought?

Why on earth did you write that tirade against my character?

You didn't even attempt to answer the questions, possibly didnt even recognise that there were questions there. I'll bullet point them:

1) This "English" you speak of - are you saying that they are all experts on economics and predicting the future?

2) What about the Welsh and Northern Irish?

3) Are you saying that you and all of the people living in England are an expert on Scottish economics?

4) Are you saying that you personally know more about Scotland, its future and what its people want and aspire to than those of us who live here?

5) Are you expecting us to believe a word that vested interests tell us?

Simple questions with short answers available.

"The only jobs, healthcare, pensions and social security that you are worried about are those in your area." That can hardly be called a tirade against your character.

I have no idea why you are asking me these things. They weren't anything to do with my post, but since you ask:

1) No, obviously.
2) What about them?
3) No, obviously.
4) I don't know.
5) Am I expecting you to? Well, that's a better question. Simply disagreeing with someone BECAUSE they have a vested interest is very poor thinking. Someone might well be simply lying to cash in, but they might just as well be honest and correct. You can't separate the two just by looking at vested interests. Also be aware that SNP have vested interests just as much as Westminster does.

That can hardly be called a tirade against your character.

It's calling me selfish, which by my standards is a pretty grevious insult.

When I read these threads and one of the main contributors starts being antagonistic and rude in their replies to opposing views...in my opinion anything they've said on the subject becomes irrelevant.

It's almost as if they don't understand the concept of debate.

McHamish - I guess there is a possibility that people who have not had the opportunity to become as refined as your good self have opinions too maybe..?
whatever next?
votes for women?

It's just nicer to be polite rather than including thinly veiled digs in your responses.

In my opinion of course.

1) No, obviously.
2) What about them?
3) No, obviously.
4) I don't know.
5) Am I expecting you to? Well, that's a better question. Simply disagreeing with someone BECAUSE they have a vested interest is very poor thinking. Someone might well be simply lying to cash in, but they might just as well be honest and correct. You can't separate the two just by looking at vested interests. Also be aware that SNP have vested interests just as much as Westminster does.

If that is the answer to those questions why did you write:

It's ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that's what they are all about?
When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

This bit in particular

When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

I hope the Scott's vote yes, Scotland prospers and everyone lives happily ever after.
That failing I would rather they vote yes and fail miserably as an independent country and become the benefactees of a blue peter appeal.
Than them stay now, as I am sick of them whingeing and the party leaders going up there cap in hand begging for them to stay promising more powers if they did got on my tits aswell.

They should have turned up with balloons and a six pack wearing party hats and blowing party horns saying we have come early for the Independence Party at Alex's house.

Good post Chip.

On the original question, I am skint but content.

Maybe if I was not content I would strive for a greater personnel wealth,
But then I would not be content.

Tom_W1987 - Member
Out of interest. How will Scotland being Independent lead to a better quality of life?
People might think that they have more control over their lives. Fairly basic tenant of [s]psychology.[/s] delusion.

FTFY

I've been skint and at proper rock bottom.

I`ve been better off than that and still struggling

I`ve since been lucky enough to have some decent jobs and contracts too

What I have learned is:

Serenity is much easier with the bills paid 8)

Perhaps a better question is would you rather experience the deepest recession for many years or would you rather go further and experience the full Iceland.. How would your quality of life be affected by the latter?

People might think that they have more control over their lives. Fairly basic tenant of psychology. delusion.

So just because people have different beliefs to you they are delusional. That's the second time in as many days that someone has used psychiatric illness as a descriptor for those on the yes side of the fence. Yesterday it was the Torygraph and dementia: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11090644/Scottish-independence-Glasgow-the-friendly-city-turns-demented.html

Classy. If you want to come and see what people with delusions and/or dementia are really like go and work in a care of the elderly ward for a day. You would probably cry and would be very ashamed of your comments.

So if they vote yes, they can hide their own Easter eggs.

someone has used psychiatric illness as a descriptor for those on the yes side

From watching the clip I would hardly describe that as rational behaviour.

You would probably cry and would be very ashamed of your comments.

I think you being a bit over sensitive. The words mad, crazy, mental etc. are used all the time to describe a lot of things that are well short of real mental illness.

So just because people have different beliefs to you they are delusional.

No, but to imply that is what I said is delusional. HTH

And demented? The OED

INFORMAL , chiefly British Behaving irrationally due to anger, distress, or excitement:

So the problem is?

I was doing a well paid job in the South East. A few months ago I gave it up and moved to Scotland and I'm on minimum wage. Never been happier.

I'm voting no, as for me Scotland is already a fantastic place to live and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

One thing is sure though, after Thursday we will still be ruled by a bunch of odious, self serving slimeballs whichever city they happen to meet in.

I refer you to Douglas Adams and the lizards...