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I bought my wife a second hand go pro 3 for Christmas and she was delighted. Pictures and videos of family holidays and been used plenty.
She was on a school camp last week and her TA was using it when then clamp snapped off the selfie stick and the camera sunk to the bottom. Just bad luck. Our fault even a school there was a little crack in the bottom of the clamp. We've told her this.
I was going to meet someone on Wednesday and buy a second hand 4 for about £130. Annoying that we need to replace it but my wife was quite excited about the touch screen and it's just one of those things.
This morning, her TA had left a new Hero 5 black on her desk. £350 worth of camera! Nb. We live in Thailand and this is a month's salary for a teaching assistant.
Should we pay her for the camera? My wife pleaded for the receipt and even suggested that she could give some money for the cheaper replacement but to no avail.
We can afford to pay but it's obviously a lot off money. We're saving hard and going without 'treats' and this would be very frustrating. On the other hand, it wouldnt have any lasting effect on us.
I think the accident was just that but an extravagant replacement is immature and quite a misplaced gesture so am a little on the fence as to insisting on paying for it.
Assuming we could get her to accept the money, would you try to pay for it?
In the circumstances I would insist on paying something. You had already resigned yourself to spending £130 on a replacement camera - if the TA really wants to contribute something, then this seems like a suitable amount. The difference for the upgrade should come out of your pocket, as it sounds like you can afford it more easily and will get good use out of the camera.
PS I have applied UK monetary standards to the quandary - if I knew the TA had spent a month's salary on the gesture instead of a couple of day's salary (as would be the case in the UK) then I'd be even more resolved to contribute.
PPS Assuming that insisting on contributing won't cause any sort of offence - I'm not aware of any cultural issues that may be present.
We're not sure about cultural standards or differences as we've never been in a similar situation and no westerners we know have. We've asked one or Thai people who seem equally stuck.
We can't get her (TA) to accept a single penny. We've also discovered there's no cooling off period so the camera's now 'bought'.
Like I said, we were happy to accept the apology and replace the camera at our own expense.
My wife think she that anything other than paying for all of it will make her feel bad whenever it's used and I can understand that. Paying for some of it seems absolutely fair. Like you said, the £130 plus a bit extra to account for differences in earnings. If we end up 'buying' the camera full price then I'll be quite pissed off. That's more than we spend per month (excl. rent)
You say it's no long time biggy for you to pay the £350 - is missing a months wage a biggy for the TA? I would imagine it is.
Has the TA got a family to support? Rent to pay?
No way could I allow someone to pay a months wage if it was an accident.
I think it's probably best just to accept it and also accept that that TA is a bit immature and naive.
It seems thus reflects a cultural attitude and, possibly, a level of deference - TA to teacher - with a dash of guilt.
You need to find someone Thai to help explain to the TA that it was a used camera and, at most, a replacement used would have been appropriate.
As above - a month's salary is excessive, inappropriate and (presumably) a sacrifice for the TA.
A couple of suggestions:
- explain situation to school management & ask them to pay 'bonus' of £220 in local currency to TA which you fund
- get her address and deliver brown envelope to her address when she's at school
- if gift vouchers are available/common in Thailand that could be an option
- contact consulate and ask for advice
Absolutely pay her £200 or so for it, this will be a serious stress in the person's life right now, one which is merely an inconvenience for you.
I was going to meet someone on Wednesday and buy a second hand 4 for about £130.
One of the reasons the TA may have bought you a [i]new[/i] camera is some countries / cultures don't really have a concept of 'second hand'. Offering a second hand replacement, even for something that was second hand in the first place, might be considered impolite.
I met a guy once who'd taught ESL in Japan - making conversation with his students he mentioned that he'd bought a second hand TV - that seemed to get the same reaction as saying he'd had to resort to using a food bank or been reduced to begging.
That said it wasn't too far from the truth - he'd gone here to try and make some money and boost his savings. However he really wasn't managing to make ends meet and he and his wife had to supplement their teaching incomes by working in a nightclub simulating sex acts under a glass coffee table 🙂
My wife pleaded for the receipt
Does the TA have previous convictions for shoplifting? 🙂
Did you tell the TA that the clamp was damaged before she used it ? If not, pay her in full for the camera. As to the cultural differences, explain that you don't see others suffer for no good reason.
Failing that, donate a months salary (yours) to a local charity.
Whose faulty selfie stick was it?
Explain situation to school management & ask them to pay 'bonus' of £220 in local currency to TA which you fund
I think this might be the only option as she's flatly refused to take any money at all after she and my wife had a long lunchtime chat. I don't think it's 'respect' as opposed to misjudging the right thing to do. We're friends out of work.
I've no doubt that this is causing her serious stress. She was shaking when she gave it to my wife.
Of course I know the right thing to do is to give her money and really, giving most of it with a deduction seems quite petty ... guess I'm going to the cash point this evening. I knew before posting, but did have a thought as to if paying the difference (subtracting what we would have paid for a replacement) would allow her to feel like she'd done the right thing and perhaps made me / us feel a little better about it.
Quite annoyed with the situation (replacement not original loss) but what's done is done and the new one has voice control!
It might be easier to make her accept the money when we're actually giving it to her as, as it stands, she really does just see it as a present.
Zane & Reuben - yes, she was told immediately after that the bracket had had a split / been epoxied and it was our faulty bracket on our selfie stick. She'd been asked to take some video while my wife did something else. She was blameless and we told her so. We didn't expect or want any contribution towards a replacement and made that clear a few times. As I've said already, we didn't want her to be out of pocket, feel guilty or otherwise. Within a day of losing it, I had posted a wanted ad on STW for a new (to us GoPro) but sourced one near us in the end. I was happy (for want of a better word) to pay for a replacement and was doing so with good grace.
You need to explain to this TA that your culture is one of forgiveness, & that you can't accept this situation. Need to explain it as diplomatically as possible, so maybe ask a Thai colleague. But, I would try doing it in a letter so that this colleague can read it again, in private without any potential obligation on her/his part that culture might dictate in a face to face meeting.
I wanted to write a sincere letter to a Czech colleague once. I wasn't happy using Google, & learning enough Czech at my age would have taken ages, so I emailed someone at the Czech embassy. Seemed a daft idea when I look back now, but a lady replied & was only too happy to help. The colleague was quite overwhelmed when she read the letter. I don't think it would have come across as well had I simply translated it, & that's the thing with culture & language differences; it can be tricky.
Just making some cultural assumptions and may be off base, but it's quite possible the TA is living at home and their meager salary is actually just spending money, a month of it might not matter all that much and just means they'll have to wait another month for their new handbag.
Maybe a little white lie may help? I don't know if you do have it or not but you could try to tell her that it was covered by insurance and that the insurance company have paid out the value of the go pro? That might make giving her the money back a bit easier to achieve if the TA doesn't think it's coming directly from your own pocket?
if money isn't acceptable, would a gift of similar value be? leave it on the TA's desk as a "thank you" - refusing the gift of gratitude may not be culturally acceptable, refusing money as payment probably is.
Need to explain it as diplomatically as possible, so maybe ask a Thai colleague. But, I would try doing it in a letter so that this colleague can read it again, in private without any potential obligation on her/his part that culture might dictate in a face to face meeting.
Top advice!
BigButSlimmerBloke - Member
if money isn't acceptable, would a gift of similar value be? leave it on the TA's desk as a "thank you"
THIS!!! Maybe a food hamper and other household consumables.
I dunno the reality here, but in my head im seeing someone deeply embarrassed trying to make amends for their perceived slight, at the cost of maybe a couple of kids going without at home..
What would you do - money and morality.
The Buddhist way (common sense way not necessary Buddhist only) of not taking more than it's worth.
In your case you return cash (£200) to her since you cannot split the action cam.
If she refuses then explain to her that one should not take more than it's worth.
Explain to her that over compensating is a good gesture but it is not necessary in this case because you bought it second hand at £130; and it was unintentional lost.
Explain to her that if you were to accept her over compensation (a form of greed) you will sin because it was non-intentional.
Explain that you will take £150 (slightly more than the £130 due to inconvenient) but will refund her £200 as a good enough "punishment".
he'd gone here to try and make some money and boost his savings. However he really wasn't managing to make ends meet and he and his wife had to supplement their teaching incomes by working in a nightclub simulating sex acts under a glass coffee table
post of the day for me 🙂
Thanks all.
Lots to think about. Not as to if we should pay (we should and will pay) but how to give her the money.
Chewkw - are you Asian i.e. talking more from knowledge than a Western perspective. Singaporean or maybe I'm mis-remembering.
FWIW, The lost camera was less than £130. That was the cost of the replacement which was an upgrade. The lost one also came with batteries, additional LCD screen and other extras which makes deducting a 'fair' amount seem really petty.
ps. excuse the typos in earlier posts. It's hard to write on a phone!
Just thought, can you do it through the school? They presumably have her bank details to pay a salary, would they be able to process your money and add it back into her wage?
I'll email to ask. No idea if there are tax issues or anything like that but it's definitely worth finding out about.
THanks
Yes, I am from that part of the world. Not from Singapore coz that is the land of stress ... 😛makecoldplayhistory - Member
Chewkw - are you Asian i.e. talking more from knowledge than a Western perspective.
Yes, take what ever that make up the value of the same action cam that was lost. I was only assuming you wanted the original value.FWIW, The lost camera was less than £130. That was the cost of the replacement which was an upgrade. The lost one also came with batteries, additional LCD screen and other extras which makes deducting a 'fair' amount seem really petty.
It's a replacement rather than profiting from accidental loss but if the value comes up to the price of a new unit due to accessories or upgrades then so be it.
Do not take more than what it is worth and you should be fine. 😛
In that part of the world over compensation is a way of "self-punishment" and apology for all inconveniences caused. This is also a way to show respect and to maintain good relationship. i.e. to make other happy again so there is no bad blood created. 😛