[Closed] What wood for log burners and how much?

I've found that wood is wood. As long as its not sopping wet, it'll burn perfectly well.

Price? £20 a cubic metre from my tree surgeon mate over the road. As far as I can tell, thats a good price 😀

Still tempted to get a trailer for the SS though and hide it in the woods, go for a ride and then collect and fill it on the way home.

it'll burn perfectly well.

but the net energy output is dependent upon how wet it is, even if it does "burn well".

recommended reading

Is it warming my house up? Yes.

=

Happy

as davey says, even better if its free

also this

Thanks fun to read, some actual advice would be greatly appreciated though! 😉

Reminds me, I've got a load of wood at the end of the front garden left over from when I built my sons a pirate ship climbing frame thing... Need to get that in the log store.

fair enough, there's loads of threads in here covering the same ground. I just couldnt be bothered typing it all out again. But at the very least since you'll be buying wood, be prepared to do the maths to work out how much each kWh of energy is costing you from the various alternatives. £20 /m3 may sound a bargin, but if it's soaking wet fresh cut stuff it isnt. The best value fuel Ive found (bar my own) has been carpenter's waste sawdust briquettes from eBay for £50 /400Kg. Around 1.5p/kWh.

Thanks fun to read, some actual advice would be greatly appreciated though!

If you have a dog go for a walk twice a day. Bring back a stick, get the dog to do the same. Job done.

If you don't have a dog, get a dog.

Get yourself onto arbtalk to listen to all the semiliterate log sellers complaining they can't make enough money from their [i]quality product[/i].

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/firewood-forum/

You'll be glad to come back to the comfort of audi driving, orange 5 riding, [s]IT managers[/s], [i]health care workers[/i] on here.

If it seasoned here in the UK outdoors you are doing well to get the moisture content below 15%

In the past, at work, we tested four different moisture meters and they all gave slightly different readings.

Wood will also give you different meter readings depending where you take the reading from on the wood.

I tend to split a seasoned log, take a reading from the center of the wood to get an rough idea.

Favorite wood to burn for me is Ash 😉

Price wise, season and store your own, at least then you will have some idea as to how long and how well it will burn.

As mentioned above, try getting hold of some fresh green wood and split and store it yourself, watch the wildlife reappear into your garden too 😉

ski - I showed a colleague pics of your alpine log-store-o-matics as I thought they were a brilliant design and just right for his needs. He had a crack at making some last weekend. He's promised me pics.

Get yourself onto arbtalk to listen to all the semiliterate log sellers complaining they can't make enough money from their quality product.

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/firewood-forum/

You'll be glad to come back to the comfort of audi driving, orange 5 riding, IT managers, health care workers on here.

To be fair to them, although a lot of people baulk at the the price of logs, there is a hell of a lot of work goes into cutting and splitting. I cut and split all my own, so can appreciate their efforts.

Price? £20 a cubic metre from my tree surgeon mate over the road. As far as I can tell, thats a good price

Does he want to sell me some at that price too? Also, is he any good? 🙂

I have a tree in my back garden in Hebden that I want taking down. I want to keep the wood though.

ski - I showed a colleague pics of your alpine log-store-o-matics as I thought they were a brilliant design and just right for his needs. He had a crack at making some last weekend. He's promised me pics.

What's this then? I need to make a log store.

5thElefant +1, get a dog.

What's this then? I need to make a log store.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/wood-storesshedbasic-principles-for-construction-of-store-and-storage#post-5345354

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To be fair to them, although a lot of people baulk at the the price of logs, there is a hell of a lot of work goes into cutting and splitting. I cut and split all my own, so can appreciate their efforts.

I agree, it just amazes me how indignant they become when someone new dares to startup in their patch.

I cut and split all my own - whilst it is hard graft, I wouldn't expect to be paid £20 an hour to do it, which is what some of them suggest they should be making.

Ta Stoner.

As per my knowledge there is nothing to do with wood type for burning we just need to check if it is wet. because wet wood doesn't burn.

Hard wood gives more energy than soft wood for the same volume. Apart from that I think moisture below about 25% should be ok. I picked up a cheapie moisture meter from Lidl that does the trick.

I cut and split all my own - whilst it is hard graft, I wouldn't expect to be paid £20 an hour to do it, which is what some of them suggest they should be making.

Is that £20 per hour after taking of the costs of doing business? Charging £20 an hour and making £20 an hour are very different things.

Hard wood gives more energy than soft wood for the same volume

Or to put it another way, for the same moisture content hard wood and soft wood give the same net energy output by mass.

That makes my head hurt.

But since woods usually sold by volume and not mass....

Most "retailers" simply sell by the "load" - i.e. back of the pickup.

Increasingly more are selling by the builders bag - 900mm3 = 730L
Which when allowing for air space would come out somewhere around 500L of wood in a standard builder's bag.

The energy in that 500L can vary substantially depending on moisture content and species.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html
15% change in density for Ash from wet to 20% dry
50% change in density for willow from wet to dry.

When I bought the carpenter's waste in an agg bag, it was weighed at between 350 and 400Kg. Smaller briquette size means far less air in the bag. 5% moisture (kiln dried lumber). So I could make a pretty accurate calculation of the total amount of energy I was buying.

Only on STW can the simplest of things be 'overthinked'!

Good dry stored seasoned hardwood is what you need. As for moisture contents and this and that..who cares! You may not be getting peak efficiency, but I doubt very much if the majority of people on here rely on their burner as their only heat source. It's pretty, it's warm, you've got flames and stuff..job done.

Is that £20 per hour after taking of the costs of doing business? Charging £20 an hour and making £20 an hour are very different things.

That's after their costs have been taken into account.

Good dry stored seasoned hardwood is what you need.

which is what everyone is saying, einstein.
It's just that you are very very unlikely to actually be able to buy any, or if you are even offered any you should check it. Wood sold as "kiln dried" on the other hand, usually is.

Taking a dog for a walk and coming back with a log is not "Good dry stored seasoned hardwood" either, at least for two years. Nor are cuttings from a tree surgeon.

Somewhat off the thread, mine is a multi-fuel stove and in the absence of free wood, I'm glad I went for this type.
Buying wood made me baulk at the rate of consumption so I'm now on coal and a 25kg bag at around £10 pretty much warms the house for three days.
Ticks over nicely overnight and in the morning, half an hour with all the vents open and topped up with coal gets it going for the rest of the day.
I like that you can control the heat output quite easily and it can be left while your out, ticking over, and then come back to a nice fire.
I'd prefer wood for the whole look, crackle smell etc but it's too dear.

That's after their costs have been taken into account.

Yup £20 an hour seems pretty optimistic for sawing down trees. 🙂

If thats what you want be cheaper to use gas then rockhopper.

I pay for wood. If it was costing me 10 pounds for 3 days of wood id rip my wood burner out.

I generally get 2 months out of a 50 quid load. Burning every day

If thats what you want be cheaper to use gas then rockhopper.

Only just.
Rockhopper's coal comes out at 5p/kWh before losses, so let's call it 20% losses and so 6p/kWh.

Mains gas standard rate is currently 5.62p/kWh @ 90% efficiency.
http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/

to compare your consumption we'd need to know how much wood your £50 bought and what moisture content you're burning it at. Without it, your comparison is meaningless 😉

The definition of a hardwood is a deciduous tree, a softwood is a coniferous tree, some softwoods are denser than some hardwoods.

Ritten by a semiilliterat.

Trail rat....
Sounds like you have a good value source of wood.
I couldn't get anywhere near that with prices I found and the last place I looked sold a load from the back of a pick up as kiln dried. Purely by coincidence, I saw them collecting a load from a field where all the logs were just thrown down, open to the elements and not even stacked so presumably not dried.

I didnt know that twinw4ll.
Every day's a school day! 🙂

Stoner...my comparison was less theoretical and more actual...I recorded my gas consumption with and without the stove running. Hot water consumption was assumed normal daily and the figures achieved suggested I was better off with the stove on, even if the ch kicked if for the extremities (we have a loft conversion).
That outcome may be due to the inefficiency of the boiler than the efficiency of the stove.

which is what everyone is saying, einstein.

Cool your jets big boy!! 😀 I was responding to the OP, who was asking about moisture content, kiln dried vs naturally seasoned etc etc

I was just pointing out that it's not worth overthinking it!

I'd be very wary of burning unseasoned wood, not for its efficiency by for the creosote deposits which will congeal in your chimney.

Back to the OP. As a repeat offender, my pusher is selling me about a ton and a half of newly felled Scots Pine for £10. It will need at least a year to season.

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twinw4ll - Member
The definition of a hardwood is a deciduous tree, a softwood is a coniferous tree, some softwoods are denser than some hardwoods.

Ritten by a semiilliterat.

😳

Holly is one of the best woods for burning and is as hard as it comes - but is technically a softwood, same for yew.

….and we all know about balsa

Futon - you need to stop lounging around in front of your log burner and come back out for our Tuesday Mile Munchers - we're missing you!

Slight aside - I acquired some logs - 2ft long about 15ins diameter - any tip on best way to chop this up - other than hard work with a hand saw?

chainsaw into 12" lengths, then decent sized axe to split

you're new to this wood lark, I guess?

A maul will do it. It'll be easier if cut them in half though.

Yup, new to wood gathering, usually buy wood by the builders sack but got hold of some tree trunks they were felling across the road from my house. I'm currently lacking in a chainsaw, I've a small axe and a rusty saw 🙂 - might have to go and get a chainsaw.

I could see a what chainsaw thread starting soon...

You can buy a decent handsaw for £10-15, and it's good exercise. I've got a Bahco one that cuts through green wood very quickly. Depends how much you have to cut up obviously.

Green wood is pretty easy to split with an axe IME.

anyone know of a cheap source of wood in or around Bristol? Local farmer wants £200 for a heaped back of a LWB landrover (cut and split). Which seems pretty pricey to me

My local farmer does me a heaped hilux of seasoned split hardwood for £60 delvered. He also helps me stack it. It's good value for the lazy man.

Does anyone know if those hardwood briquettes can be stored outside in a covered log store?

if it helps , stored mixed wood £120 for 2 builders sacks full delivered. (+6 magnums to the local kids to shift and stack) plus odds and ends and the pallets i can scavenge lasts the season october to april. I have seen a local specialist supplier asking £117 per builders bag.

£117 per builders bag

About what I paid for properly kiln dried hardwood, sized to fit the stove.

They couldn't even drop it off beside the log shed (crappy baby Hiab) so I had to hand ball it all the entire length of the garden.

It is a little bit drier and better burning than the bags of logs from the garden centre, but only time will tel if it's more convenient.

The advice on here regarding scrumping for timber and seasoning your own is all very well if you have the time and space.

I think next year I'm putting an old computer screen in the stove and just showing videos of flames.

pictonroad - if they are still in their plastic wrapping then that's OK for a while. If not then no. They need to be in a dry store, preferably inside, and used quickly. They can soak up moisture from the atmosphere quite quickly.

OP - I think your local to me.
Got a good supplier of Ash if you need some. King of wood in my humble opinion as it can be burnt green and gives off plenty of heat and leaves less ash in the grate to clean out in the morning.
I've got access to a load of Cedar as well but that's going to need a year to be great (and it will be great in a burner!)
Tim

Hmmm, I pay between £600 and £4000 per m3. I have a feeling I'm buying for a slightly different market, however all my off cuts (about enough to keep 20 stoners / mcmooters going) are efdectivly free.
All kiln dried hardwoods, and they burn hotter than nuclear! 😀

Richc. Try this lot, they will stack it for you at no extra cost.
[url= http://www.firewoodandkindling.com/ ]Firewood and Kindling Bristol[/url]

Live in a small village which us a mix of new builds and older properties.

New builds have tanked LPG heating which is very expensive. We're on electric.

Lots of new builds having log burners installed.

There has been a notable decrease in air quality this autumn and into winter. Some really smelly and smoky.

Down to what is being burned?

What are planning permission requirements for wood burners anyway? None?

No doubt in my mind, if you don't like collecting, chopping and splitting wood then log burners are nice to have rather than a way of saving money.

We have found scrumping to be a another addiction. Just as you develop an eye for new trail's, it's the same for possible firewood. Having a van helps though.

I think on balance, at this time of year, if your stove will burn coal, I'd buy coal in preference to wood. It's not dependant on being properly seasoned. Plus, less storage space needed. You still need some wood to get it going with, but not that much, only a couple of logs per burn.

And scrumping for wood is great if you have space, and a van, but not everyone does.

Regarding the OP's ask about kiln dried - it is only really worth while if you are going to keep it in a kiln, anywhere moister, such as outdoors and it will just reabsorb it to a natural level. So doesn't make sense to me, I even have access to a kiln and don't consider it worth the effort and cost.

All wood burns, season it for the best result though, some stuff takes longer than others. No need to be snobby over hardwood/softwood, softwood may burn quicker, but it should also cost you less.

We do a bit of firewood as a sideline to clear the bendy stuff the mills won't buy. 2 of us probably spend about a month cutting, splitting, storing around 100 ton of timber. All this is driven by fuel and will require fuel to deliver and the further you are from the source the more fuel you will need, so if fuel is going up, you can expect firewood prices to go up - pretty simple. Prices are very localised, if we towed down to Cardiff we could easily charge double if not 3x what we do locally.

If you are pracical minded, you can buy cordwood like mcmoonter, if you are practical minded with a large garden you can buy a lorry load of 25 ton (by weight, because that is how the lorries are restricted) we currently get £50-£60/ton roadside for this depending on species, so add haulage of £400 minimum to get the drivers attention = £1650+

Finally, we don't appreciate wood fairies, we sweat hard to put timber down. Ask first.

Just paid our supplier £120 for two builders' bags of mostly ash and oak with almost no cypress this time, so I'm happy. It's been stored and some of the bits are mildewey so it's been piled up in the guy's barn not really drying out properly. However our log store is round the side of the house where there's an almost constant gale rushing through as the westerlies find their way past so once stacked, our wood seasons pretty quickly. By the time last winter's birch is finished in about February (Grandma comes for Christmas and the rate of burning doubles) I reckon the new lot will be ready.

When you see radial cracks in the ends of the logs and two pieces ring when banged together, is when it's ready. I've weighed before and after and found that some wood loses 40% of its weight when dried.

When you see radial cracks in the ends of the logs and two pieces ring when banged together

good rule of thumb there