[Closed] What will racism look like in 20-30 years time ?

Humanity will be united as one in opposition to our lizard overlords.

the same, just less people will admit it... Well.... certainly the older generations.

The younger ones, they're truely inspiring and really do seem to care less about 'difference' than the older generations.

I used to feel like we were steadily if clumsily progressing towards a more inclusive tolerant future but now I think that was largely a sham and/or we've gone into reverse, sadly.

I watched the Rock against Racism documentary at the weekend and even though I thought I could relate to the 70's and 80's it was a real shock how bad it was. We appear to have come a long way so hopefully by 2050 things will be a lot better but we have a long way to go!

At the current rate of regression I would say back to c.1850 levels.

You never know, though. As perchy hints at - we may well be ruled by lizard overlords or aliens from another planet who just felt they had to step in to save us from ourselves.

Unfortunately, their skin was a different colour (green) so humanity united for a brief moment and then massacred them all. Before falling out with each other and carrying on much as before around five years later...

Humanity will be united as one in opposition to our lizard overlords.

This^^ Vive La Revolution . .green ones first

Unfortunately I imagine something to do with inherently biased algorithms or something like that. Or consciously vindictive algorithms.

All this anti racism stuff will have been a waste of time as the Chinese will be running the world in some truly 1984 dystopian hunger games type society. 😉

The serious answer is that in 30 years time, the dominant culture on the planet is likely to be China.
Have a look at their attitudes towards their own ethnic groups and you’d come to the conclusion that now would probably be a good time to start digging an extensive network of escape tunnels to give your grandkids a chance of escaping the re-education camp.

Humans will always divide into us and them.
If we eliminate racism we'll just find another them to pick on.

Yeah good point lets just stick with racism to be safe.

thought the White Riot documentary was a real eye-opener. Started in 1976 and have we really come that far in 45 years? These scumbags still exist - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Front_(UK).
Black Lives Matter had to come to prominence again recently as though many (particularly in the US) haven't got the message. In 20-30 years, I would've thought things will be pretty much the same, seeing has they haven't moved on that much since the 70s. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Crazy to think the US had it's first black president, then that piece of shit Trump straight after, like they needed to balance it out.
. https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/psa-white-riot-sky-arts-11pm./

I think we will look back at some of the 'acceptable' discrimination in the 2020s with the same view we have of the casual racism of the 80s. THings like discriination against Gypsys and Travellers (see the recent Pontins thing for a good example), but also discrimination against women, young people (for example different rate sof minimum wage, restricted access to benefits etc).

Sadly I also think others are right - the human condition seems to want to identify someone who 'isn't like us' and blame them for all the ills (real and imagined) in society. With the impact of climate change leading to lots more displaced people from the hotter regions of the world and those whose homes are underwater, I can't see this canging. Hatred sells newspapers after all (or hologram news services, or whtever we have in 2050).

I watched the Rock against Racism documentary at the weekend and even though I thought I could relate to the 70’s and 80’s it was a real shock how bad it was.

You should try working in a factory or a warehouse in Rotherham or Doncaster. Nothing has changed.

I think we do a good job of sweeping it under the carpet until recently. Certain people have realised that racism is still a useful tool for motivating and harnessing the energy of large groups of people who were deprived of popular ringleaders for a few years.

You should try working in a factory or a warehouse in Rotherham or Doncaster. Nothing has changed.

I think we do a good job of sweeping it under the carpet until recently. Certain people have realised that racism is still a useful tool for motivating and harnessing the energy of large groups of people who were deprived of popular ringleaders for a few years.

Basically this.

Some of the 'oh so clever' bastards that are doing this are doing it for financial gain, thinking the genie might be able to be popped back in the bottle once they've offshored the proceeds and ****ed off. By someone else of course. The rest genuinely couldn't give shit one way or another.

As for the 'easily led' who buy into all this nudge-nudge racism shit, they're just going to get screwed over like everyone else. Silly little sods.

It's a wider topic really, how will the various forms of bigotry evolve over time?

It's really what forms of bullying, exclusion, suppression, hate speech or plain old casual acceptance of stereotypes will be dancing around the edges of "social acceptability" and which groups will be the prime victims...

The thing I've noticed is that as much as I thought we'd moved forwards as a society in the early 90s (when I was much younger), looking back, we really hadn't. And right now as much as people are better drilled in "what is acceptable" in mainstream media and public discourse, the backlash (eg; FB, Twitter Parler, etc) is every bit as toxic and vicious as it ever was...

All that's really changed is the current "battle grounds" are much more online than in print or broadcast media (but not exclusively).
Thing's like JK Rowling's recent outing of herself as a Transphobe (and finding quite a bit of support online in doing so). The UK's own Right leaning Brexity majority repeatedly getting their way, or the rise of Alt-right "thinkers" like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson who seem to help push the myth of organised, malevolent "ANTIFA" or "The Liberals". These all illustrate that bigotry doesn't really go away; it just adapts to the current circumstances and finds different ways to paint minorities or all types as a "problem". Racists/bigots are not to be underestimated they've been consistently skilled at operating the propaganda tools of the age and steering the populous the way they want...

This isn't an enlightened age, I somehow doubt we'll be living in such a world by 2050 either, but I'm sure the topics will have moved on a bit.

It will get worse. As resources become further stretched due to climate changes and refugees become even more of an issue, any discrimination will be amplified.

It'll get diluted a little every generation, i'm 44 and grew up with parents, TV, etc that used all the racial terms and so on, reality is in some areas it's died down, in others it's just sleeping a bit, we'll see soon enough, or not so soon.

The press will still be slagging off Meghan, whilst deifying Kate

It would help to read at least some of Echart Tolle, the Power of Now. Then you won’t have to worry about crap that hasn’t happened yet.

One step forward one step back, is how it feels at times. Not just racism, but xenophobia in general. I like to think that as the older generation departs and kids that have grown up multicultural take over we proceed in the general right direction, but there's a lot of 20 year old racists to die still.

I often mention but one saturday night in 2012, as a nation we roared as a mixed race girl, and then a Somali immigrant won gold medals at the Olympics. Because they were British (we even roared for a ginger, but baby steps 😉 )

But then Brexit and xenophobia and 'go home' and I realised that we weren't there yet. But I'm naive so when Harry married Megan and we had a mixed race royal wedding I thought we were getting somewhere. Now it comes out that someone in the royal family expressed concern at the potential brownness of the new prince. I don't know why, I'm no royals fan but that has shocked me this morning, as much as what we see from the bigot in the street every day.

I believe we are moving(slowly) in the right direction.

Having been raised in Barnsley in the 80's racism was basically actively encouraged at every point. From schools to work especially. Everything was designed to pull the other person down.

Now I have seen my cousins grow up with a completely different attitude (for the record im 40+ they are 30 ish) its been refreshing to see them challenge things where i didnt/couldnt. I now see my own daughter growing up in a totally different world to myself and im thankful for it. Yes i think there will always be divisions in society but i truly believe that with each generation we say goodbye to more racism. I cant see it lasting untill my daughter has children.

I had this same conversation with someone who has married a friend of mine that happens to be an Indian lady. He says he admires the thought but im deluded.....

I grew up in South Africa, and have seen what large scale racism is, and its net effect on what comes after.

Now in South Africa there are Xenophobic attacks on non South Africans shop owners and the like for "stealing jobs from the locals".

People will always find someone to blame for the problems in society. Its easier than actually fixing the problem.

Now in South Africa there are Xenophobic attacks on non South Africans shop owners and the like for “stealing jobs from the locals”.

That has been happening for 15+ years.

Shops in Knysna were burned out 10-15 years ago because there were Somalis trading there.

Now in South Africa there are Xenophobic attacks on non South Africans shop owners and the like for “stealing jobs from the locals”.

They haven't really fixed the problems, apartheid ended, but no one has really addressed inequality. Very tough to make it out of the ghettos in SA.

What about them Lizards?

They come over here from their bloody planet.....etc

I've often wondered this.

Maybe in 100-200 years time there won't be such a thing as black, white, yellow, brown etc - we will all be so intermingled that all our genes will be mixed and everyone will be a similar race.

In 50 years time I think it is certain that things will be different. However we seem to be heading into more extremism that will last another 10 years or so, then things will hopefully start to get better. Maybe we will be back where we are now. It will be our children/grandchildren who influence life in 50 years time so we better get them pointed in the right direction!!

there won’t be such a thing as black, white, yellow, brown etc – we will all be so intermingled that all our genes will be mixed and everyone will be a similar race.

Oh what a beautiful dream. If it could only come true, you know.
What we need is a great big melting pot big enough to take the world and all its got

You should try working in a factory or a warehouse in Rotherham or Doncaster. Nothing has changed.

It has though. Those people know what they're doing is unacceptable (in part, it's why they express those views) . Back in the 60's 70's and even the 80's they (sometimes) did not.

Now it comes out that someone in the royal family expressed concern at the potential brownness of the new Prince.

What Meghan said was 2nd hand from Harry, so exactly what was said and in what context we may never know, but from my limited experience the "browness" of child in a mixed race family is quite often discussed much like discussing eye or hair colour is in Caucasian families.

I think (and hope!) it will be very much a minority view that racism is acceptable, far more than it is now and has been recently. I know the likes of Trump and Brexit have stirred things up again but it seems more like a final cry of that part of society before they all die off and are replaced by the current youth who seem exponentially more accepting of people being from different backgrounds, whether that's defined by skin colour, ethnicity, religious beliefs, disability, sexual orientation or social status. You just have to observe any large group of students to see that, as a whole, they are mixed together socially and educationally to a far greater extent than even my generation was back around the millennium.

It really does feel like the turning point has been reached where regular people are able to openly call a racist a racist and have the backing of others. It's been a long, slow journey to this point and it's now that the racists and their organisations are realising that their days are numbered so are making the most noise just before they become a dinosaur culturally. This doesn't mean that any work to improve racial relations should stop, far from it, but the head of momentum is now so great that it will take a lot of energy and fighting back for the racist element of society to turn the tide back now.

Bloody Martians, coming over here stealing our blood and drivin' round in them fancy rover things of theirs. A good old fashioned virus, that's what we need. Sort the buggers out, just like we done 'em in 1898.

Me daughter married one of 'em. Now we've got a grandthing who's fifteen shades of bleeding' emerald, gawd the shame of it.

It really does feel like the turning point has been reached where regular people are able to openly call a racist a racist and then elect him as President

Sorry, not such an optimist here....

Our own PM isn't afraid to shy away from the odd racist comment to get a laugh from the crowds....

What we need is a great big melting pot big enough to take the world and all its got

Over 50 years ago...

I just wrote a really long post about what I witnessed while working in Rotherham but I deleted it. It was basically the most extreme, fanatical hate speech I've ever heard in my life and it makes me miserable to think about it. I'll just say there's a little too much unjustified optimism in this thread for me too.

I work in a University now. I'm safe and sound in a nice little office full of polite and educated people most of whom have spent their whole lives in a bubble of safety and security. At my previous job I was the "lefty faggot" or the "Geordie snowflake" but now it's warm and civilised and from where I'm sitting racism is a thing of the past.

id like to say it would be gone, sadly this wont be the case as throughout time its always been there in many forms…

Discuss

IMO skin colour will not feature prominently but ideology will.

Colour is less important by then but how you think matters, which also means the world will be divided roughly into two broad categories in extreme. The ones that feel freedom is much more important and the ones that feel obeying is important. Both will battle for mind control and will even go to war over this. Prepare yourself coz war is coming ... 😀

But it won't be in the form you are used to.

Depressingly familiar, I imagine.

It'll be worse, people are already battening down the hatches and entrenching themselves in their little bubbles of people who think and look like them. 2010-2020 was the peak of anti-racism I reckon.

It will all be blaming foreigners for everything wrong with post-brexit/covid Britain and butthurt westerners fighting over a smaller share of the worlds GDP as the developing world gains more power and influence.

And it won't just be from the far-right, it'll be from previously woke greenies or western feminists when they encounter women with power and money who don't necessarily think like they do

And as the line between war and peace becomes ever more blurred, where competing nations can fight war though the use of communications, financial derivatives, weaponized trading, fake news and data - the concept of who is and is not our friend or ally will become increasingly more difficult to discern - and with that people will resort to parochialist ideals in an effort to protect themselves.

We've just had four particularly bad years.

A few cans of worms have been opened but I genuinely think that this kind of discussion and worry is part of the process of improvement.

The BLM movement gained real traction last year in a way that black rights campaigning hasn't for decades.

So I'm sure we'll be in a better place (in the Western world) in 30 years time, but probably not that much better.

A few cans of worms have been opened but I genuinely think that this kind of discussion and worry is part of the process of improvement.

The BLM movement gained real traction last year in a way that black rights campaigning hasn’t for decades.

So I’m sure we’ll be in a better place (in the Western world) in 30 years time, but probably not that much better.

I'll agree with this. As a 50 year old white bloke I've been exposed to experiences of everyday racism in discussions this last year that have horrified and disgusted me. My own awareness and understanding of the issue has grown hugely. More importantly, I see that awareness and attitude in my kids and their friends.

We may never erase all racism, we may replace it with another "them and us" divide, but it will become less common in the years ahead.

You guys are way too optimistic.

Just wait for backlash when the west is no longer dominant.

It will get worse. As resources become further stretched due to climate changes and refugees become even more of an issue, any discrimination will be amplified.

Just wait for backlash when the west is no longer dominant.

These 2 points are key and it will definitely get worse. It does appear that the best time was around 2000 - 2010 when it felt like racism, sexism etc,. were at their least worst and it has gone downhill from there.
Ability to "speak your mind" largely anonymously via social media has made it clear than it may not have been as good as it seemed and provided people with the "oh it wasn't just me who thought that about x"

The BLM movement gained real traction last year in a way that black rights campaigning hasn’t for decades.

I think that's true but there's also been an enormous backlash. I've seen comments from people in this country claiming it's all just about rioting and communism, and the booing of players taking the knee is only limited by a lack of crowds. Some people booed it from outside a stadium closed to the public!

The BLM movement gained real traction last year in a way that black rights campaigning hasn’t for decades.

All I saw was a few statues being pulled down / removed. I don't recall any real changes happening (but then I'm white, so maybe haven't noticed). Whole thing seemed to get derailled by focussing on statues.

Empire magazine now uses a capital B for Black. So I'm sure thats solved lots of the problems

Empire magazine now uses a capital B for Black. So I’m sure thats solved lots of the problems

Not just statues then, real progress 😉

All I saw was a few statues being pulled down / removed. I don’t recall any real changes happening (but then I’m white, so maybe haven’t noticed). Whole thing seemed to get derailled by focussing on statues.

Really? I am from a liberal, anti-racist, 'woke' type background but I didn't really think until recently about things like unconscious bias and structural racism. I thought that because I'm not 'a racist', as in someone who thinks black people are inferior or whatever, then I wouldn't ever have problematic attitudes and behaviour, because why would I?

I was inspired by BLM to read 'Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race' and it definitely challenged some of my assumptions. I think if you just take it to be just about statues you are being almost wilfully ignorant and perfectly playing into the hard right wing populist narrative.

I think if you just take it to be just about statues you are being almost wilfully ignorant and perfectly playing into the hard right wing populist narrative.

Well if there are any long term changes to society as a result of BLM, then I am definitely ignorant of them, so please feel free to list them...

I don't think being sceptical that pulling the odd statue down isn't the same as addressing structural inequality equates to 'playing into the hard right wing populist narrative', but what do I know, I'm white, so not really qualified to comment on it.

NB On a personal note, I'm fairly indifferent to pulling statues down. Seems a bit of a 'token gesture' to me, but again, who I am to comment.

The footage of that statue coming down in Bristol and being dropped in the river where it belongs was one of the few times I've ever been impressed by the actions of the British public.

Everyone else is just clapping on the doorstep like servile muppets while the Tories run the country like a mafia.

It will get worse. As resources become further stretched due to climate changes and refugees become even more of an issue, any discrimination will be amplified.

Just wait for backlash when the west is no longer dominant.

This is the kind of political fearmongering that drives racism.

Frankly I think in 30 years there will have been a backlash against the current populist driven racism, but I fear how far it will go before that happens.

The real war is being fought, and currently won, by the 1%ers against the majority, the nationalistic narrative is the distraction to cover it up.

The real war is being fought, and currently won, by the 1%ers against the majority, the nationalistic narrative is the distraction to cover it up.

Well given they run 99% of the media, it's unlikely to change as they set the popular agenda.

I think if you just take it to be just about statues you are being almost wilfully ignorant and perfectly playing into the hard right wing populist narrative.

I think that's a bit harsh. The government and certain sections of the media have tried very hard to ensure that it's 'just about statues' because that furthers their culture war, plays well with the gammons, and means they don't have to examine why so many black people die in police custody or from COVID etc etc

Well if there are any long term changes to society as a result of BLM, then I am definitely ignorant of them

We won't know the long-term changes until beyond the scope of this thread.

We're barely even into the short-term since last year's protests & the accompanying cultural discussions.

Well if there are any long term changes to society as a result of BLM, then I am definitely ignorant of them

As eluded to above, long term by it's very definition isn't the change that happened overnight.

It's for example the thousands of HR departments up and down the country quietly re writing their recruitment specs because they realised that the satus quo was simply recruiting people from their background (e.g. must have a degree for a low level position, is inherently biasing your recruitment pool towards the kind of people who go to uni).

And the the uni admissions tutors thinking "well maybe DoE is just something well performing schools in nice areas push the kids through. And doesn't really differentiate them from inner city kids". Again, not a explicitly racist thing. But one of a long list that filters in favour of a white middle class background.

It'll be 20 years before the long term impact of thousands of those small changes is seen in the boardrooms of FTSE100 companies.

We won’t know the long-term changes until beyond the scope of this thread.

What I was really getting at is there are no programs / projects under way (that I know of) to address any aspects of the deep seated institutional racism which is embedded in UK society.

In the US, Biden is enacting some bills (eg voter rights) etc which at least do address some of the issues and will probably make a change. He's also promoted several people of colour (or whatever the right phrase is) to cabinet posistions etc.

Looking at this as an Engineer, we have 100s of metrics which measure racism from stop and search, % CEOs of FTSE 100s, % with degrees, % home ownership, cancer recovery rates, % incarcerated etc etc

So we have everything we need to measure before and after to measure progress. What we seem to be missing is the bit in the middle where you actively make changes, with the expectation that you'll improve the metrics when you next measure them - unless we only use the metric of 'number of statues of people associated with slavery', but I really don't think that's progress.

It’s for example the thousands of HR departments up and down the country quietly re writing their recruitment specs because they realised that the satus quo was simply recruiting people from their background (e.g. must have a degree for a low level position, is inherently biasing your recruitment pool towards the kind of people who go to uni).

Again, to me, that seems like bolting the door after the horse has bolted. I would wager that part of the reason we don't have black people represented in senior roles is caused by the problems with racial bias in education etc. You need things like Sure Start to target children when they're young and stop them falling behind etc. I don't see any programs like this addressing racism.

What did it ‘look like’ in 2001?

Again, to me, that seems like bolting the door after the horse has bolted. I would wager that part of the reason we don’t have black people represented in senior roles is caused by the problems with racial bias in education etc. You need things like Sure Start to target children when they’re young and stop them falling behind etc. I don’t see any programs like this addressing racism.

Didn't the House of Commons have some kind of awareness training planned last year that caused a massive angry gammony backlash amongst anti-woke, anti-antifa MPs? Real change has got to come from the top.

What did it ‘look like’ in 2001?

From my white, male, secular point of view? "Nothing to see, move along". I'm at the top of the UK privileged demographic tick list, but I hope my eyes are a bit more open now.

Real change has got to come from the top.

Yep, I'd expect to see goverment targets, similar to reducing poverty in children.

Eg by 2025 reduce the lag at Key Stage 2 from XX % to YY % for all black children in England etc.

And then then you'd expect the government to introduce programs to try and attain it etc.

I read the papers every day and can't recall any mention of a targeted intervention for racism since BLM.

It’s for example the thousands of HR departments up and down the country quietly re writing their recruitment specs because they realised that the satus quo was simply recruiting people from their background (e.g. must have a degree for a low level position, is inherently biasing your recruitment pool towards the kind of people who go to uni).

Again, to me, that seems like bolting the door after the horse has bolted.

That's as may be, but those HR departments don't get to set government policy, so they can only do what they can.

Here's the National Trust, post BLM, releasing their report addressing the fact that half their properties were built on slavery and pillage (for which, of course, they got roundly slated by the government as it pursued its policy of culture war and division):

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/addressing-the-histories-of-slavery-and-colonialism-at-the-national-trust#Introducing%20the%20report

Here's my local university's plan for widening participation amongst ethnic minorities and low-participation areas generally over the next 5 years:

There are no doubt plenty of other examples.

If your definition of 'making any kind of impact' rests solely on actions taken by this government, then you're going to be waiting a long time, and it will be very easy to say that BLM did nothing. We have an openly, enthusiastically racist prime minister, and a Home Secretary so servile she enacts racist policies that would have deported her own parents. We have a racist monarchy and a huge selection of racist press. It's going to have to come from elsewhere.

As above we don't know about long term changes yet, and yes progress has been slow even in the short term and lots of people are paying lip service to the concept, but dismissing it as being about statues is very reductive IMO.

It seems very strange to slate the movement for being ineffective rather than criticise society for not really listening.

Here are the stated aims of the UK BLM movement:

https://twitter.com/AllBlackLivesUK/status/1274295379018821634

Sorry Footflaps but I disagree.

Large scale change might be possible by government intervention in the form of targets and funding for various programs.

But a lot of what I heard was it wasn't just the PM calling people from Africa "piccaninnies". It was often the cumulation of low-level bias by people who didn't consider themselves racist that stack the deck.

It's not down to the government to tell HR departments "employ fewer white people". It's for HR departments to look at the companies employees and figure out why their existing policies have perhaps resulted in a racially biased outcome.

It’s not down to the government to tell HR departments “employ fewer white people”. It’s for HR departments to look at the companies employees and figure out why their existing policies have perhaps resulted in a racially biased outcome.

OK, different example: women in Engineering. Rare as rocking horse shit.

No amount of tweaking our interview process will every change that.

If you want more women in Engineering you have to figure out why they don't take STEM A-levels at the same rate as men and why so few choose to study Engineering at University.

It seems very strange to slate the movement for being ineffective rather than criticise society for not really listening.

I don't think questioning it's effectiveness and focus is the same as 'slating the movement'.

I just think it could become more effective and achieve something substantial rather than very little, which is what I think will be the result based on current progress / tactics.

To enact change you need specfifc measurable goals which are achievable in a realistic time frame. You then focus on those, using metrics to measure progess. You then pressure / lobby the government to adopt them. Not easy by any means, esp with the current government.

OK, different example: women in Engineering. Rare as rocking horse shit.

No amount of tweaking our interview process will every change that.

That's a totally different subject with different challenges, or have I missed something here?

Back to race and recruitment - how about if names were removed from CVs during the selection process? So recruiters were not aware of whether a candidate might have an "ethnic" name.

That's one little, positive thing a company can do by itself. But could also become law for organisations of a certain size.

That’s a totally different subject with different challenges, or have I missed something here?

You missed an Analogy.

Back to race and recruitment – how about if names were removed from CVs during the selection process? So recruiters were not aware of whether a candidate might have an “ethnic” name.

That’s one little, positive thing a company can do by itself. But could also become law for organisations of a certain size.

But if the real problem is that black people are 60% less likely to go to University or 300% more likely to have a criminal record, then you're missing the bigger issue - which was the point of the Analogy...

Blind interviewing only works if the issue was racial bias in the recruiters. If you recruit against absolute criteria and one segement of society is massively disadvantaged when trying to achieve that criteria, you won't end up with a representative cohort of employees....

But if the real problem is that black people are 60% less likely to go to University then you’re missing the bigger issue – which was the point of the Analogy…

I'm not sure that is "the real problem".

But if it is, that needs to continue to be addressed. AFAIK action has been taken to help more BAME pupils get to university. Further action should be focused on all disadvantaged pupils IMO, bringing class under the diversity & inclusion umbrella.

I’m not sure that is “the real problem”.

On just about every measurable metric (inc resussitation in A&E*) black people fair worse than white people. At every stage in education they are behind.

By the time you get to employing graduates (as an example) the pool you have to choose from has been filtered and filtered to remove black people.

Yes, great to have a fair interview process, but it's very late in the game to inact any real change.

* IIRC Their lips turn grey not blue, so all the standard medical training is racially biased which results in more deaths as people miss the symptoms till their condition has progressed to a worse state.

Maybe through crises during and post-Covid people will see that their structural problems are down to class and not identity. Lots of NHS workers are from minority groups. NF and Tommeh have had sfa to say this year. Nonsense like the (Labour commissioned) Parekh Report banging on about Britain becoming a 'community of communities' (aka ghettos) and the press forever pushing identity politics don't help but then I think people have become more skeptical. Incidentally, it's quite amusing to see the Tories winning in the front bench minority identities contest.

Maybe through crises during and post-Covid people will see that their structural problems are down to class and not identity.

I don't think you can disentangle the two - for as long as the current structure disadvantages POC, equality is an unreachable goal.

That’s as may be, but those HR departments don’t get to set government policy, so they can only do what they can.

Some of the biggest employers rewriting those job specs ARE the government, or at least, the public sector.

It will take time, it might not be my generation, but for my kids generation, racism is abhorrent and they see people, not races.

I'm astonished so many on here don't see that slow change occurring. It might not be a perfect instant solution, it might not suit the doom and disaster mongers amongst us, but it's s happening.

I read all those one liners then took a look at other threads.

Found it hard too differentiate for a while 😆

You can get help you know.

It will take time, it might not be my generation, but for my kids generation, racism is abhorrent and they see people, not races.

Being 'colour-blind' and thinking racism is bad isn't enough though.

Maybe through crises during and post-Covid people will see that their structural problems are down to class and not identity.

It's both. Poor black and asian people are doubly disadvantaged.

But if the real problem is that black people are 60% less likely to go to University or 300% more likely to have a criminal record, then you’re missing the bigger issue – which was the point of the Analogy…

That was the example I gave.

If you write a job spec and say "must have an (unnecessary*) degree and no criminal record**" you're writing something that isn't racist but has a racially biased outcome.

*Lots of jobs don't need a degree, even my old lab job needed a chemistry degree when in reality an A-level would have been just fine. I'd argue that if you recruit people with degrees into a lot of them they'll be bored and want to leave, which was true of that lab it has quite a high turnover of people going to work elsewhere.

**Especially in a world where people like to say "H&S gone mad". Why does this statement always exclude speeding etc. I'd argue that points on your driving licence is just as good an indication you're not likely to be able to follow simple site rules than being caught with small amounts of drugs, graffiti, having a knife or other stereotypical crimes.

It will take time, it might not be my generation, but for my kids generation, racism is abhorrent and they see people, not races.

Another point that was made repeatedly (and I'm not sure whether I entirely agree with it either though, so this is a bit of devils advocacy). Is that you absolutely should see peoples races. Being 'colourblind' and ruling out a candidate for not having a degree and having a criminal record as mentioned above has just the same outcome as ruling them out on more overtly racist grounds. You should infact look slightly more closely at an individuals background and cut them some slack if that background meant they were less likely to have a degree.