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So, it has finally happened, my daughter is buying a horse after receiving a generous gift from a relative. So we are now looking at options for lugging the thing around – it may be a horsebox (which we could then consider renting out) or it may be trading in our current 'second car' for something suitable for towing – right now I am not sure if it would simply be a bigger family car (ie, Kia Sorrento) or an older pick-up or even an older XC90 or something. I'd just like to hear people's thoughts/experiences on both. Thank you.
I don't have a specific budget, but I would say around £10k total.
Horses are heavy so you'll probs be looking for something that can pull 2000kg and I'm guessing you'll also be looking for 4WD.
my very small amount of horsebox knowledge makes me believe that they're moneypits (but so are horses, so.....). I'd have thought you'd be better with a Discovery or similar.
Toureg has a good towing capacity.
My old XC90 decided to become 2WD without me knowing until it got snowy and it just sat there spinning the front wheels. I'm not sure it's much of a towing vehicle anyway.
Good luck with the horse. I have 3 [now grown up] girls that liked riding, 5 stables and 6 acres of paddocks - I still refused to have a horse and they just had lessons!
Yes definitely looking at 2000kg+ towing capacity – I think I'd rather go for 3,000kg+ really as, as far as I understand it, it is safer to drive when the vehicle isn't nearing its towing capacity.
But yes, we know about the moneypit that is horsing – she's had a full loan for some time so this isn't going to be *that* much more expensive (other than the vehicle requirement).
2000kg is fine for one horse and horsebox. My wife tows an Ifor Williams trailer with a 4WD Kuga and it's been bob-on.
More is always better, but more generally means more expensive too. But 4WD is essential.
I really miss the days when SWB 3dr Shoguns and the like were common!
Same decision to be made a few years back.
Mrs B had an earlier xdrive BMW X1 2.0 TD auto so theoretically 2,000kg.
We ended up trading it in for a Touareg TDI which is theoretically 3,500kg.
The Touareg is notably 'better' when towing but has obvious downsides in terms of fuel consumption, etc, etc.
A Land Rover Discovery 4 that has been looked after. Has a 3.5tonne towing capacity and will get you in and out of muddy fields no bother.
They are also great for carrying mountain bikes and dogs and pretty much anything. We had one for around five years and nearly always kept the seats folded down and covered with rubber mats. You've essentially got a two seat small 4x4 van, or the capacity to carry five people and loads of kit. We've now upgraded to a Mk5 Discovery commercial.
I'm glad to say my horse days are over as a previous Mrs Montylikesbeer and I are no longer together.
I had an Ifor Williams single trailer with a Kia Sportage which worked well.
I dont miss, mucking out, haylage, farriers (grrr), vets (double grrrr), collic, tack, the list goes on.
Happy (horse) Trails 🙂
Submarine
I dont miss, mucking out, haylage, farriers (grrr), vets (double grrrr), collic, tack, the list goes on.
You needed to set out the guide-lines from day one! 🙂
I rode when I was a teenager then packed it in, but when I met my wife-to-be I said I wasn't going to be one of those husbands who follow their wives around at shows with a grooming box. And I haven't - it's her domain.
I still get all the ear-ache though as every bugger else in the family has horses.
Dont buy a Landrover. They are at the bottom of the reliability tables for a reason.
We had a Discovery 3. Broke down more times than care I to remember, even with the Ifor trailer on the back with a horse in it. Had an Isuzu Trooper too - which i called my Land Rovers 'special tool' - as it towed it far too many times than it should.
But a Toyota Landcruiser.......
I know STW seem to hate them but I can't recommend a pickup highly enough for this job. We use a Ford Ranger (last of the good ones made by Mazda), slightly agricultural these days and starting to show it's age but have had it for 7 years and put probably 70k miles on it with very little cost other than fuel, tyres and servicing.
Something like a Toureg/Disco/Land Cruiser would get you more for your money and be a nicer and more comfortable vehicle to live with but cant beat the practicality of pickup imo, especially with horses (try fitting 10 bales of hay, 4 passengers and 2 dogs in a Disco!). Being able to throw messy stuff/dogs etc in the back is also a massive bonus, just make sure you get one with a canopy so tack, shopping, bikes etc can be ferried around and left securely.
I'll be replacing our with another pickup truck when it dies.
Don't forget that you need a car that can tow the MAM of the trailer which for an Ifor Williams HB511 is 2,700kg. I ended up with an eight year old VW Touareg which can tow 3,500kg and seems to be the sweet spot of reasonable cost second and (relatively) few stories of horrific reliability issues. Initially I wanted a Land Cruiser but they seem to be £35k plus second hand.
I'd suggest hiring a horsebox/lorry until your daughter is certain what she wants to do with the horse. That gives you plenty of time to look at the best option.
A large SUV 4x4 plus trailer is what you see most of the time at horse events. MrsG has a horse so I get dragged to plenty of horse events.
My advice would be: do you really know if/when/where you need to transport said Hos'?
We've got 2 horses and now a donkey as well, when we moved we used our single Ifor Williams (401 i think) over two trips with our 2 horses to the new place, towed behind a Mk1 Freelander no problem. Also i've towed it loaded with a hos behind my yeti, again no problem.
The box has been sat for the last 7 years, not moved once. It's handy for what if, but in reality we dont really need it.
If you're going away every weekend hacking/eventing etc. horse box every time, less hassle, safer etc. if you want in an emergency backup or for transport now and then, check what you can hire locally.
Having a box and car just (okay maybe not 'just') for towing is kind of the worse of both worlds.
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" />My advice would be: do you really know if/when/where you need to transport said Hos’?
We already know that as we currently have a full-loan and spent the summer hiring/borrowing/sharing horseboxes/trailers etc (currently not needed as her loan is lame) so I would say it will get used quite a lot (probably every other weekend).
As mentioned above - early VW Tourareg with the V6 diesel or a Porsche Cayenne 957 (effectively the same car). 3.5towing capacity, proper 4x4 drivetrain with very capable traction control system and low range box for easier towing manoeuvres. I have the petrol Cayenne used as a tow car and it's very capable whilst being civilised and a nice thing to be in. Galvanized bodyshells and well built. Only problem being £700 road fund unless pre March2006
Disco 3 or 4 is good but SDV6 engines are likely to snap the cranks.
XC90 isn't great for towing - the autoboxes are a weak point and it's AWD not true 4x4. For less money get the Tourareg instead.
Bloody hell, Touraregs are huge :O
My OH has had two Freelanders (Mk 1 and Mk2), both very good and now has had a Kia Sportage for the last few years.
When she got the Kia we had to get the 2.0d and 4x4 as it had a greater towing capacity than others in the range.
She's just sold the horse trailer (a 15 y/o Ifor Williams 511, good condition and well looked after, got £3500) as she's recently bought a converted Renault Master.
As someone said further up, vans/lorries are just so much easier to live with.
What about this - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410135149523
We already know that as we currently have a full-loan and spent the summer hiring/borrowing/sharing horseboxes/trailers etc (currently not needed as her loan is lame) so I would say it will get used quite a lot (probably every other weekend).
then i'd be looking at a converted van, like THIS. Then you have option to lend/hire out if you want. Every other weekend is quite frequent for towing and if your doing distances as well, the van would be better.
If you still need a second car with that as well then that might make it tricky though.
I need a tow car for collecting hay more than moving the animals around, with 2000kg capacity (for the braked trailer) and it's a pita trying to find something that I:
a: like
b: is relatively frugal
c: low emissions/tax
d: all wheel drive/4x4 and can handle dragging the trailer down a muddy track
e: not silly money
£10k is not enough!
We have an old jeep grand Cherokee that is used for towing. It’s thirsty but it tows well and has been generally reliable
Dont buy a Landrover. They are at the bottom of the reliability tables for a reason.
I know people that have had issues, but then I've had virtually none - one of the best tow vehicles out there. White one still going strong on 150k - caravan is over 2t and it's towed it dozens of times
Don’t forget that you need a car that can tow the MAM of the trailer which for an Ifor Williams HB511 is 2,700kg.
No you don't, you just can't legally tow if the combined weight of the trailer and the load is greater than the towing vehicles weight limit.
My mum’s used a Volvo V60 4wd estate for pulling horses since 2011. Before she had that she had a Volvo V70 4wd estate. You don’t have to compromise and get an SUV. You’ll find one of them for £10k no bother.
I love my Volvo's......but because I'm a pedantic engineer the (fairly wide) Volvo engine is transverse it didn't leave much room for the gearbox hence the Asain Warner auto boxes in Volvo's aren't as strong as they could be. The Asain Warner auto in my longitudinal layout Cayenne by comparison is massive and don't have any reliability issues. I'm also a hoot at parties when I get talking on these subjects.
Bloody hell, Touraregs are huge :O
.....and heavy, which is why they make such good tow cars, Dobbin isn't going to start the horse trailer wagging with 2.3t towing it along!
My wife went down the horse box route in the end. We looked at towing vehicles but they are expensive, massive and very fuel thirsty. Not great for a commute. We had to buy a second vehicle at this point though - we weren't replacing one.
A dedicated vehicle made more sense for us. Wife got a 7.5tonne licence and a box that can handle two horses so her and a friend can go places. Boxes are generally easier to drive than a big car and trailer. Particularly when manoeuvring.
Can you see yourself going to events and things fairly soon - are you buying a "ready to ride" beast? You might not be going to that many places for some time? I'd not rush into anything.
Where are you towing to/from?
Loads of motorway miles to events around the country, something like an E-Class.
Pulling the horsebox out of a boggy field ten miles away, old Land Rover.
Double Cab pickups are about to become very very cheap.....
My old XC90 decided to become 2WD
Haldex 4x4 systems seem to have a mode of failure that means that most 4x4 drivers with that system have no real idea whether they actually drive a 4x4 or not - right up to the moment where a 4x4 would prove itself to be actually useful. 🙂
Came here to suggest a cheap double cab but beaten to it 😀
Everyone on my rural bit of the world seems to use an Isuzu pickup double cab thing. Although a friend's did cause alarm when the knackered battery was fine until it wasn't, and the entire vehicle cut whilst moving.
I know the guy I bought my old Saab 9-5 aero from was seeking itt for an Octavia Scout to better drag his daughter's horsebox out of a field, but I know nothing about towing so don't know if that's a good idea
Also,
my very small amount of horsebox knowledge makes me believe that they’re moneypits (but so are horses, so…..). I’d have thought you’d be better with a Discovery or similar.
Is that because it's better to have multiple moneypits to greater increase your chance of bankruptcy? FFS don't get a disco.
Have I missed something - why are double-cabs suddenly going to be cheap?
Have I missed something – why are double-cabs suddenly going to be cheap?
Starmer has changed the double cab pick up tax bracket that the Tories had to back pedal on. There doesn't seem to be the backlash this time though as it wasn't announced, just snuck in through the small print in the budget
So prices will sky rocket until the April cut off then probably drop off is my guess. They went up a good few grand last time it was announced
Bloody hell, Touraregs are huge :O
They come with a 5.0 V10 diesel as well, capable of towing an airliner… 😉
My Dad used to tow a plane…with a Moke.
Planes are light though, 'cos .... flying!
I move our [2 tons] boat around with the mower!
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Mazda CX 5
Horses are heavy so you’ll probs be looking for something that can pull 2000kg
You've got to think outside the (horse) box.
Get a small horse. That way virtually anything will pull it.
Hell you can virtually get a Shetland pony on the back of a motorbike.
The last gen XC90 and XC70 are the standard for towing horseboxes round here, probably every third horsebox has one in front of it. I also live in the middle of horse country, probably 2 dozen stables within 10 km of me at home, and probably twice that at the office. So i see a _lot_ of horse boxes.
Planes are light though, ‘cos …. flying!
I move our [2 tons] boat around with the mower!
Yeah, the plane used was a bit more challenging…
Horses are heavy so you’ll probs be looking for something that can pull 2000kg
You’ve got to think outside the (horse) box.
Get a small horse. That way virtually anything will pull it.
Hell you can virtually get a Shetland pony on the back of a motorbike.
Can't you use the horse to pull the box ? Like they did in the good old days ?
A van?
Then you get something for biking trips too.
In an ideal world I would do that, but I have to sell our car to help fund the new vehicle purchase and I don't fancy nipping to the shops in a 3.5t van.
Did a quick straw poll during the commutes of the last 24 or so hours.
Seen 28 horse transport devices (i counted).
About a third vans/lorries, all but one were 3.5/2.7t sort of things, the 8th one was a full on coach built thing like a motorhome.
6 or 7 of the old XC90 and XC70/V70 families. Also new shape XC90 and XC60 (one each IIRC).
3 Subaru Forresters, couple of Passats, and 2 or 3 VW SUV/MPV (Tiguan/Touran i think).
The rest were pick ups/double cabs.
Based on this, I think you should get the coachbuilt motor home with built in horsebox for £200 grand. This is STW after all... go big or go home.
Might need to upgrade your driving licence though.
Starmer has changed the double cab pick up tax bracket that the Tories had to back pedal on. There doesn’t seem to be the backlash this time though as it wasn’t announced, just snuck in through the small print in the budget
So prices will sky rocket until the April cut off then probably drop off is my guess. They went up a good few grand last time it was announced
Interesting reading about that (sort of), but this only a BiK increase and only really affects people financing/Leasing them for business purposes Right?
Interesting reading about that (sort of), but this only a BiK increase and only really affects people financing/Leasing them for business purposes Right?
I haven't read much about it, but wouldn't it also affect VAT? Ie, before the change, a self-employed builder could buy one and claim 100% VAT back (or 50% if used for personal journeys). Isn't that why commercial sales usually show commercial vehicles for sale excluding VAT?
Yeah, the plane used was a bit more challenging…
Yep.... I'll give you that!!
Although didn't Geoff Capes or someone manage to pull a 747??
Have I missed something – why are double-cabs suddenly going to be cheap?
bloody awful things anyway. cross between a car and a cart to be towed by the horse.
useful on a farm for moving farm things .Currently a tax dodge otherwise.
as for lorrys vs towing ....
The running cost of even the cheapest to run lorries will far exceed that of a trailer - If you cant tow a trailer get some training - youll need some for the lorry anyway.
Bloody hell, Touraregs are huge :O
They come with a 5.0 V10 diesel as well, capable of towing an airliner…
most things with a tow bar could - its stopping it thats the issue.
My neighbour uses a Kia Sportage to tow horses in a trailer.
How about another horse, they could take it in turns to pull each other
Bin dun.
kormoranFree Member
Deux cheveaux
didn’t Geoff Capes or someone manage to pull a 747??
Don't talk about Mrs Capes like that.
Just get a normal medium size van? Transit Custom, Trafic etc.
Crew cab van can even give you six seats.
have you ever tried to get a horse into a seat ?
This is something i've been looking at too. We have recently got a pony and he's unlikely to need a lot of transporting about at the moment, but i'd like our next car to be tow capable in case we need to rent a trailer to go to a show / move him etc.
As it wouldnt be a regular thing, am not keen to buy a land rover or similar which would be a pain for the rest of the time.
Through lots of searching, there are a number of vehicles that appear as though they should be able to tow and cant, and then some other surprises.
New SUVs like the Sportage and Hyundai SantaFe can only now tow about 750kg braked! This is apparently something to do with the hybrid systems and making the slightly older petrol / diesels more desirable.
The STW favourite Octavia estate looks to be able to tow 1500kg, but i'm not sure that would be enough?
And then from some more searching, most of the Volvo V60 can pull 2000kg, and the XC40 can do similar.
Any other recommendations for 'normal family car that can tow a surprising amount?'
The thing with towing a horse-box compared to a caravan is the weight is moving. And sometimes the weight is going bat-shit crazy!!!
IME you need the weight of a SUV type 4x4 to keep things stable and you don’t end up with the trailer pushing the car.
And yes - many new hybrid SUVs can’t tow. I think the latest Kuga can tow 2100kg though.
https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/new-kuga#kuga
Don’t forget that you need a car that can tow the MAM of the trailer
Don't think this applies to cars, I have heard the same but it was when I was taking my CE license and applicable to commercial vehicles.
Tow vehicle and trailer are also dependent on horse weight, 'hers' is rather large so we have the heavier HB511 trailer but a smaller horse in a smaller trailer would bring RWD saloons into play. Also regarding 4x4, I tow ours with an Iveco campervan (3.5t limit) It's only RWD but it's only needed a tow once in about 12 years, out of a field where the lorries had sunk to their diffs and the landowner subsequently stopped running eventing there! I reckon we would have got out but the trailer had grounded out on a hump) So a 4x4 isn't essential (m&s tyres are though)
I don’t fancy nipping to the shops in a 3.5t van.
Better than taking a horsebox though! That's the reason I tow with my camper, it's still useful as a bike van, holidays, nipping to the shops when my wife's car is not available. It's only a metre longer than a Discovery and probably does similar mpg.
I reckon one of these ought to do the trick, always fancied one myself as a holiday/festival camper - could earn a few bob towing the unfortunate souls stuck in the mud at going home time!
