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After a few suggestions on this one.
My daughter graduated this year with a First Class Hons Degree in Maths from Royal Holloway (University of London).
She's now ready for the next step and to enter the big bad world of work. Slight problem, she's not entirely sure what she wants to do.
She isn't keen on teaching, before that's suggested. She's had a part time job teaching drama to children for several years so realises she perhaps doesn't have the patience for instilling knowledge in the next generation.
Finance seems an obvious direction but what she really enjoys is the actual problem solving that she has found in her university degree. She did briefly consider a Masters in Quantitive Finance but the additional student debt and the feeling she was just putting things off decided her against this.
She's only just turned 21, state educated and is a female with a qualification in STEM so presumably would tick a lot of boxes for employers. She's also worked customer service jobs throughout her university summers so not work shy.
So can anyone inspire us with suggestions of areas of interest that she should take a look at. Or company/science institute graduate schemes she should investigate. South West London and wants to remain close to home.
Sorry if this sounds like some kind of job wanted stealth ad, but some career direction suggestions or what other forum users (or indeed friends or family of theirs) did in this position would be genuinely helpful.
My mate did a PhD then went off to write algorithms for de beers to find diamonds on the sea bed.
He was very enthusiastic about the job.
I assume he is now minted
The people I know with them are government statisticians (which covers everything from health to the environment to economics) or have done research on ocean currents at the Scottish Association of Marine Science.
Get into finance, quantitative analyst etc.
Nuclear, there's a LOT of maths involved that goes hand in hand with reactor physics. EDF has a grad scheme.
Any idea which bits of maths. Like applied quantum stuff or pure maths
My understanding is that there are things that need numerate graduates. Some will be physicists or engineers others will be maths graduates.
The money stuff is potentially quite complicated modelling. Lots of physical systems need modelling as well. Some of the higher levels of computing might need pure maths people
I have recruited teachers at big careers fayres. Lots of companies recruiting different kinds of people. Well worth going along and chatting. What are they looking for?How do they recruit?
lots of people with that sort of brain end up in software engineering - I expect she did a module or 2 as part of her course?
grad schemes around london start circa £50k, so its not poorly paid either
Data scientist is the new term for analyst or stats minded/aware
All really helpful so far, keep it coming , she’s also keeping tabs on your replies.
A few potential areas already for her to explore, thanks. STW forum doing what it does well!
There’s no hurry to decide. She’ll figure it out when she looks for something that interests her. Mathematicians turn up in all sorts of unexpected places.
With a first class degree were folks encouraging her to consider a PhD?
She should just pick something that looks appealing. The worst that happens is she realises it’s no fun and then goes and does something else.
additional student debt
like real debt? She was in London after all. Or English student loans? These are not debts like bank loans. Though if she funds her own masters degree the support isn’t quite as nice as that of a first degree.
You can get into a lot of things with a maths degree, it's one of those that's a benchmark for a smart person that can pick up complex things and solve problems.
Small caution however, I think a fair few companies put smart young minds of this kind to waste.
My mate did a PhD then went off to write algorithms for de beers to find diamonds on the sea bed.
He was very enthusiastic about the job.
I assume he is now minted
Honestly, I doubt it.
What's she want to do, because with a maths degree you can do most anything . You don't need to things that look obviously mathsy, aanything with data, or data modelling is open.
I have a maths degree ended up in software engineering. Chip design is another highly lucrative path worth looking at. You know of course that AI is all maths/matrices. Don’t write off engineering either as there are many big problems out there crying out for new ideas. The ongoing space race being one of them
I did a Maths degree at Exeter and most people I k ow went on to work as actuaries or in finance/accountancy.
Personally, I went on to work in IT as the logic and problem solving abilities that Maths gives you transfers quite well to data analysis and coding.
Quantum computing? Nuclear fusion? Physics based modelling? Cryptography? All things that’re crying out for good mathematicians. All things with substantial problems to solve.
Graduate natural catastrophe analyst at a large insurer or bank is a good place to start looking
I went from Maths at uni to doing software with a bit of a specialism in fast time simulation, then ended up doing data analytics. Finance probably would've been more lucrative but I found it boring.
Actuaries and accountants is an obvious route for a maths grad, I’m sure a big chunk of my cohort went that way admittedly several decades back now. Pretty much any area of research if she’s considering heading down the PhD route, and perhaps even if she isn’t. As a mathematician I made a decent career for myself in (mostly) climate change research and a smattering of other sciences. Decent maths skills are always in demand and can be used in a wide range of areas beyond the basic “it’s a degree so I can do a graduate job” stuff.
I actually had a job offer from GCHQ before deciding to do the PhD. That would have been very maths-focussed research (cryptography etc). I think they liked to get their staff young and malleable rather than bitter and cynical like a new PhD tends to be.
(That last was a joke, possibly.)
Met Office definitely uses maths skills and is a good employer in a fantastic area (apart from the salary which is risible).
So many years ago I did a Maths 'with' course and then was very lucky to be of an era where some Masters courses were paid for, for about 10 students. Now that's gone, the ability to try specialisms is harder. The key question is what type of maths did she enjoy and choose in her final years.
People I know went in to bank local manager (now senior risk manager at the same bank), banking / finance, from actuary or accountancy to modelling markets to insurance/reinsurance, lots of climate, weather, flood scientists and engineers as that's what I went in to, statistical analysts for carbon/climate/energy start ups to big consultancy, software developers - particularly specialist programming equations - data scientists and consultants, including nuclear, and in Government / policy via data analysis jobs. And yes some teachers. And several PhDs working at Unis.
General high-level consultancy that will call themselves 'analytics' should give a range of fields, applications, and experience. Worth reviewing lots of grad programmes, including engineering firm, but understand the most 'driven' people she'll be up against will be a year below and applying for next year's intake. So she would need a plan of what to do with this year if she goes for a graduate scheme.
Scaffolder...that's dead good at maths
Depends on her values and what she wants out of work.
If I was talented that way i'd be looking at joining a quant team in one of the big investment banks, do a couple of years there then QNT it up at a hedge fund for a bit and retire early
STFC graduate recruitment scheme takes a lot of Maths grads in software engineering, proper engineering, and physics type roles.
if she wants to avoid the corporate grind then it’s a great place to work, lots of holiday, excellent pension, salary is better than the Met Office and if she’s really lucky she might get to work with me!
she’s too late for the 2024 intake and the 2025 scheme will be advertised in the New Year.
GCHQ have some pretty cool jobs in this field and they have a Maths and Cryptography Internship if she wants to explore this a bit more
I work with a lot of Maths grads on medical robotics, not southwest London though.
Software, Data science, AI (although in my experience most of th AI people I worked with were post-doc).
London will have some options, she could trawl r/Henry on Reddit of she's looking to get mega-rich 😉
MrsIHN is an actuary, marks the exam papers and gets involved with student recruitment, so I'm sure would be more than happy to chat to your daughter about it if she'd be interested
I recon someone with a maths degree can play a key role in loads of fields. I guess it depends on what she’s interested in and is motivated by. For example, if she’s interested in environment stuff, numerate people find jobs in meteorology, loads of environmental modeling disciplines, hydrology, etc.
My step sister has a maths degree and went straight to finance and has lived in Bermuda for that last 10(?) years.
Audio DSP
Masters or PhD in biomedical sciences and a career in Clinical Pharmacology. It a masters in medical statistics and also entry into the world of drug development.
You really don't need much Maths to do Accountancy, Actuaries on the other hand do need to be good at Applied Maths and it is still used as a stepping stone into Investment Banking, where it is well regarded. As far as Banking is concerned, quants do command high starting salaries but they often sit in Middle Office so their comp plateaus - as a general rule of thumb, the customer facing guys get the big bucks and often have the most varied and interesting jobs.
After 10 yrs degree/phd/research I landed in software, which then lead me into the telecoms industry. Recently of course have had a brush with maths again thanks to the ML boom.
More than ever it feels like the world’s your oyster with a maths degree - any of the above seem feasible to me.
All the money is in data now (ignoring traditional finance roles and the like). A rotational grad scheme at a consultancy that does a range of data analysis / data science / maybe some specific application e.g. pharma/robotics etc would get her well on the way to megabucks without becoming too pigeon holed. I'm 9ish years into engineering and often wish I'd chosen that route instead, it wasn't as obvious at the time though. Engineering is hard work for a lot less (still good) money.
A lot of the big IT firms with graduate schemes should be pretty flexible on opportunities (e.g. we have data science, developer, security etc. type roles - you probably have to pick a preference to start with but I assume you can change your mind down the line).
If going into the IT world one tip I'd say is try to get security cleared asap (SC to start then DV if possible), it's so much easier to find jobs and move around fields if you have clearance - another benefit of joining a big IT company is they're often more willing to put people through the clearance process as they have a variety of roles requiring it (rather than a company wanting to take someone on for a specific role, most times they'd expect at least SC already).
Investment banking!
My daughter's boyfriend has just started his career in investment banking having just graduated from Exeter Uni.
Don’t write off engineering either as there are many big problems out there crying out for new ideas.
Got load of mathematicians working with me. Modelling batteries, traffic patterns, safety/crash modelling, people, manufacturing and supply, autonomous drive stuff.
GCHQ
And never tell anyone what you do.
What to do with a Maths degree? Whatever the hell you want. Seriously. What is she interested in? She can apply her education to that. Maths is fundamental to everything.
Can't really help with the specific question (I are a physicist, so don't do proper maths) but I can sympathise with the OP. My daughter has also just graduated with a First (in her case Natural Sciences - basically Biology and Chemistry - at Durham) and is now back home trying to work out what she wants to do next. I blame the parents 🙂
You can become an actuary in Pensions or Insurance.
Insurance is probably the more lucrative route, particularly if you work at a Reinsurer or a Reinsurance broker
Are you saying flood and climate change is a bad idea ElShalimo?!
Nuclear, there’s a LOT of maths involved that goes hand in hand with reactor physics. EDF has a grad scheme
https://careers.edfenergy.com/job/Nr-Bridgwater-Graduate-Maths-Engineer/1114709201/
Schemes open and starting salary doesnt look shabby for a grad scheme!
@joshvegas - the actuary route usually has significantly better remuneration.
It depends on the motivtaion of the individual. Some people just want to make money, others want to contribute. When I got my applied maths degree from Sheff Poly I just wanted a job and sort of fell into engineering consultancy.
Why rush in to a career? Go and explore life, travel, find out who you are and what you like doing before some stranger on the internet, or worse your dad, finds you a job you hate shortly....
I’d imagine a maths degree gives you a lot of options - although for grad schemes it seems you’re looking a little bit late given she’s just qualified. Ideally for this year you’d have applied some time ago / looked at doing some internships over the summer.
I’m in banking - normal ringfence bank in the UK at one of the big 4 - rather then investment bank. Grad scheme comes in with a reasonable salary - especially for someone aged 24. They do 18 months on the scheme with 3 different job roles of 6 months in that time. From my experience looking after grads once they’re into the final 6 months there is a fair amount of pressure applied to decide what they want to do as their first permanent job and get it arranged as early as possible in that final 6 months.
If she’s in London then there are so many finance options - but if looking at investment banking just be aware the pressure there is intense and she’ll be expected to work really quite long hours. Money is good obviously but I wouldn’t trade my life for the salary personally. YMMV.
Also just be a bit wary of the American banks like Citi / Bank of America / JP Morgan - the culture there is very different to UK employers. I think Wells Fargo is meant to be the nicest US bank to work for.
The quality of some of our grads coming in has been amazing the last couple of years - our last one had an advanced maths degree and one of our analysts was really impressed with some of the work he did on placement with our team.
In finance / banking you really need to push for a career though - unless you find a senior sponsor you need to network as much as you can and really push for the next job. Generally I’ve found there isn’t really a pathway and people aren’t going to hand stuff to you on a plate.
Everything I hear / read suggests if you can get into the right kind of IT career then you have a lot of job opportunity in many different types of company and the earning potential is very decent. So I’d consider that too.
Honestly I’d say the only difficulty with maths is choosing what to do. Anything involving technical skills and numeracy will be crying out for them, because maths underpins all of the quantitative modelling in basically every scientific and economic field. Whereas a biologist for example might struggle to get a job in a heavily physics- and engineering-oriented field (not saying they can’t break out of the pigeon-hole but it’s rare). And I don’t just mean adding things up and doing basic sums. Lots of interesting challenging problems in all areas you can think of.
I’ve worked (and published papers) in engineering, astronomy, agriculture, climate and weather (mostly here covering a very wide range of topics within this area), epidemiology. Oh, bicycle engineering, which was a bit of a side-project. I may have missed one or two things. Finance! I forgot the finance stuff.
I also got to travel the world a bit which was interesting.
It's nearly 20 years since I graduated. A first class degree in Maths should open up plenty of doors. This website used to be the place to look for jobs as a graduate.
Her choices are not limited to using Maths. Loads of companies will take you on graduate schemes. Look at some of the big FTSE100 companies and the like to see what is on offer. I did chemistry and did a general management scheme at a fruit juice factory in Bridgwater. I eventually moved back into Chemistry years later but learnt a huge amount in those 2 years.
My wife did Biochemistry and ended up doing IT and management stuff at Accenture. After about 15 years she moved to the civil service. When I've been involved in grad recruitment, often the degree doesn't matter. Many places are looking for a broad range of skills, intelligence, self motivation and ability to learn. A degree is one way of showing that.
I'd suggest she has a think about what she likes doing in very broad terms. I like a mixture of practical and theoretical problem solving along with some creative thinking. I do (chemical) product development which lends itself well to that. Lab work, office work, small scale through to factory scale. Get to tinker with equipment as well as the "bangs and smells" of mixing things together.
Companies me and my wife looked at.
GSK (my elder sister did the graduate scheme there)
Pfizer
Astra Zeneca
Loreal
Deageo
HSBC
"The big 4" accountancy/consultancy firms
I'd look at civil service options. There are some really interesting careers available. They have a website.
Try and understand culture as much as job when you look at these places. I did not like Finance and consulting and moved away from that fairly early. My wife was more keen and did well at Accenture until she took redundancy - it is ruthless though - often long hours and very competitive.
My personal opinion, assuming a desire for a fairly normal career, would be to suggest getting onto a grad scheme in a big multinational and think big. They will have the best opportunities for training and career development in the early stages. Do that for a few years and then see where it takes you.
I would also consider some "exploration" either literally going travelling or doing some unusual work. A nice steady career makes for a comfortable life but not always the most exciting. I've got a couple of friends getting by riding bikes. One raced the Amstel Gold this year and the other spends his days doing ultra distance Gravel. My younger sister graduate around 2008 so there were no jobs. She went out to work for a charity in Kenya for a few months, got a permanent position and lived there for 3 years before coming back to the UK.
I have a maths degree!
Just be aware that there are IMO quite limited opportunites to really stretch yourself on the maths side of things even in quite mathematical jobs.
I ruled out finance in London as I just heard so much about long hours and stress.
I've done quite mathematical software engineering in defence and automotive (driver assist type algorithms) but often the work is really reading, understanding and implementing something from a research paper. For commerical stuff you're often looking to make things robust and reliable, which means staying away from cutting edge reserach until it's been proven in acedmia or by people with more time/money to spare.
Startups can be different so might be worth looking at.
Most people from my uni ended up in Acturial Science or Software Engineering. You can combine both, Actuaries are often quite stuck in their ways and the industry is a very behind on the software side so it needs improving. I did a contract at one place and their version control system was emailing around Excel spreadsheets and Python scripts with a version number appended.
There's lots of talk about AI taking lots of software engineering jobs at the moment. Seems a very long way off to me, but Actuarial Science is probably safer from that, who knows.
Also, as an Actuary you have more client contact and relationships with customers which adds value beyond your skills/knowledge, whereas with Software Engineers you are often just a cog in a machine and more easily replaced (on average, theres exceptions to this obvs,,)
My nephew graduated with a maths with physics degree from Bristol. He now works for a company working in cyber security for banks. He has tried to explain to me what he does which seems mostly related to developing software.
@joshvegas – the actuary route usually has significantly better remuneration.
Tell me about it.
Actually work to improve the situation, get peanuts.
https://www.gchq-careers.co.uk/our-careers/specialist-roles/mathematics-cryptography.html
Although I suspect that would involve a move to the West Country
For stuff that really uses the maths, the question would be what sort of maths is she good at, not just can do it, but really “gets” it? She should know by now.
e.g. Stats and probability, understanding different distributions and relationships between them etc - data science, some parts of ML. Would require an aptitude for computers, though this can be learnt. Know any python/scipy/numpy/pandas?
Or linear algebra and a good intuitive understanding of geometry? Computer vision and robotics is a lot of that made real.
There are also lots of simulation and modelling jobs that can be a mix of the above depending on the domain.
Logics etc and symbolic reasoning and representations? Sadly yet to have its big day (I have a PhD in this area applied to AI) but still finds its place in formal methods and verification, safety critical systems engineering etc.
And there are lots of areas of maths I’ve not touched on… what flavour’s favourite?
I would say, these days maths is applied through computers, what skills are useful there is quite field dependent through.
With alll the talent she has, has she considered being a bad guy?
I came into it from the Engineering side, but working for an Airline is really interesting and has some good benefits.
My lot have some really clever people doing all sorts of financial and operational analysis, data science, engineering etc and I find it nice that I can connect the work I do with something easily tangible and satisfying (people going on holiday).
The industry tends to pay well compared to others - the job I do could transfer easily from automotive, manufacturing, production, rail, nuclear, oil and gas etc, but the pay at an airline is up the higher end with Nuclear/O&G relative to the others - the same is relatively true for a lot of roles I believe. I got a ~50% rise doing a job on buses with wheels, to the same job on buses with wings.
Neither of these are my lot, however from SW London you have BA and Virgin at multiple sites which is what made me think of posting.
I'm not so convinced about BA , but Virgin seem like a good bunch, I've visited them a few times for various projects and meetings and it struck me as some where good to work - I havent checked details closely but they have a bunch of jobs up on their website that could be the right kind of areas.
The industry took a kicking during covid, the flipside is generally good benefits, maybe a bit of travel etc, and as above I just find it 'nice' to do a job with such easily visible results, still a little grin ever time I look out the office window as one of our Jets takes off.
still a little grin ever time I look out the office window as one of our Jets takes off.
And a bit more of the planet dies ?
Safety Engineer is another interesting career for Maths grads (if you're interested in it).
It's basically working on nuclear installations like power stations and working with logic systems. You get to travel a bit if you want to and nuclear isn't going away any time soon