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Gary Wilmots house?
My uncles house is currently taped off in Amesbury, but he has no idea why! They haven't told him anything despite his house being behind the tape. I drive past it on my commute, just a few bored looking police men standing around.
The woman in Amesbury has just died. ☹️
Is it suspected that they’ve come into contact with the exact same nerve agent that the Russian father and daughter did? I don’t mean the same type, I mean the same actual source?
if not, there could just be some nutter out there with a nerve agent (that’s not affiliated with a country etc) and they’re leaving this stuff lying around
They reckon its either the discarded container the previous poisoner used, or excess poison he had was dumped somewhere.
The local MP said on R4 this morning that the couple had drugs problems and were in the habit of searching through bins! Bizarre.
Looking through bins....?
How many weeks since the original poisoning? Surely the bins in Salisbury would have been emptied at least once since then.....
So either Wiltshire council are really bad (they're not quite that bad-I live near Salisbury) or the perpetrator has more recently disposed of the agent.
That's if its the exact same batch.....
If is another batch then its proper spooky.....
Diplomacy is going to be fun...
OK im getting all Alex Jones here
but Craig Murray has raised an interesting point about 2 of the images released yesterday
they appear to be the same location at Gatwick, with the same time stamp, but of the 2 different people, has the MI6 photoshop team been sloppy?
pics on the met police site too
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
actually if thats a fixed angle camera then there are differences in the top left, also date stamp could be from later on, if plane landed at 3 , maybe border police take a snap of everyone disembarking, especially from russia, but then did they know/ suspect they were GRU?
coming out of Gatwick there are more than one (5 or 6 from memory) lanes as you finally exit from the security area into the public area of the terminal.
All are to all intents and purposes identical and entirely feasible they went through 2 channels simultaneously; a spot the difference expert* needs to see if there are any distinguishing aspects to the photos other than the men before I'm accepting your conspiracy on this.
* not an expert, a six year old can spot dozens I'm sure
So what will Maybot do?
I reckon she’s about to do s.o.d all and accept trade negotiations in return.
Rusixt
They look like different lanes, cameras are are at slightly different angles. If they are who police think they are then they'd have stayed fairly close to each other while never giving the impression that they were travelling together.
they appear to be the same location at Gatwick,
They're not the same shot, the angles are different. That's two photos from two different cameras, I'd wager.
Yes I assume different lanes. This RT interview is good.
I went for an explore on Salisbury Plain last Saturday which involved cycling through Amesbury. Following the bridleway through the new estate, suddenly came across police tape and a police woman sat on a foldable chair. Looked like she'd been there a while at 8.30am!
At the other end was the same set up, plus a police portacabin , 2 more officers and tape . Looks like the house is closed off for the long term!
Fortunately they helped me with the diversion as i got lost going round the houses!
A hundred years ago Britain had the influence to make the Russkies shit their pants and own up to stuff like this.
Fifty years ago Britain was mates with a power (the US) who had the influence to make the Russkies get a bit nervous and hang their operatives out to dry as ‘rogue agents’, or maybe part of an uncontrolled element of a satellite country’s secret service.
Now? Listen carefully and you can hear Putin and his mates rolling around on the floor nearly pissing themselves laughing at what ‘influence’ Britain is going to try to bring to bear. Even if the Orange Cretin came out in full Stormin Norman mode, all Putin would need to do is mention something about how he too enjoys water sports (wink wink) and would the Donald like to join him in analyzing his proficiency in water sports (wink wink) by viewing the video evidence and the support will disappear.
This isn’t about whether the russkies did it (of course they did), it is about power vs impotence. The Russkies will continue to tell blatant lies to our faces in front of others as it signals exactly how little influence we have. It’s a win-win for Vlad. Get away with it and look invincible. Get it totally pinned on him and......look invincible.
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1037649163767492610?s=19
We are being trolled by the embassy....
We have reached the point where we know MAD isn't going to happen. So people can get bolder about what they do.
Hmm yeah...I think dannyh has summed it up nicely.
Annie Machon, the lady in that interview is dodgy as ****. She is a 9/11 Truther and Princess Diana weirdo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she turned out to be part of Vladislav Surkovs long game/propaganda/hybrid warfare against the west.
We have reached the point where we know MAD isn’t going to happen. So people can get bolder about what they do.
This. Everyone knows pressing the big red button isn't a possibility and people have realised they can start pushing boundaries and starting wars, even between two nuclear armed states without bringing about the end of the world.
Fifty years ago Britain was mates with a power (the US) who had the influence to make the Russkies get a bit nervous and hang their operatives out to dry as ‘rogue agents’, or maybe part of an uncontrolled element of a satellite country’s secret service
Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an ice pick
That made his ears burn
And his assassin was awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union
Giorgi Markov was assassinated on a London Street in broad daylight, in 1978. No one was charged, and the main suspect is reported to be living and traveling freely around Europe.
Hence the reason I said that it would be explained away as the actions of an ‘uncontrolled branch’ of a satellite country’s agency. Markov was ‘the work of the Bulgarians’ according to Moscow, if memory serves. As if the Bulgarians wouldn’t have sought Moscow’s sanction in those times - even if the original idea was theirs.
Trotsky got his ice pick in Mexico didn’t he? So not a lot of relevance to doing someone in on British soil.....
As someone somewhere else put it.
I bet Putin’s old FSB mates are seething with envy at what he’s managed to achieve with “a couple of prozzies and a fake Facebook ad or two”. Quite magnificent.
Now? Listen carefully and you can hear Putin and his mates rolling around on the floor nearly pissing themselves laughing at what ‘influence’ Britain is going to try to bring to bear.
Actually...we got sanctions re-imposed on Putins already puny and pathetic failing economy which is again hurting. Why do you think he's knocking off old aging spies decades after they defected in the first place? it's a desperate and pathetic action of a guy struggling to maintain power and popularity. We got other world powers and leaders to agree and back up our evidence and claims. We've frozen assets in the UK of certain Russian Oligarchs who will no doubt start to pressure Putin at some point, and we refused a visa to Abramovich. I'm not sure what people are expecting...for us to fire up the tanks and start rolling on towards Moscow? This is a game that will take time to play out. Russia will deny everything, we'll continue to try to locate the suspects...who will probably never now see the light of day as they will no doubt be bumped off themselves...if they haven't already. But in the meantime we have one more bargaining chip on the table for future negotiations, whatever they may be....that's international politics...building up those bargaining chips in a tit for tat list and trade at some future point when we have something properly important to negotiate.
Putin's little plan to look tough in front of his own people as his popularity was waining has backfired somewhat. OK, the world will not bring down the hammer on Russia over this, but it will probably prevent Russia from doing this again. We're not the only country harbouring ex-russian Cold War spies, so other countries are definitely standing up and taking notice.
We have no option but to pursue the course of action we are....following the rule of law, bringing in our allies. No one incident will change much on its own, but people have taken note...Putin is on the naughty step.
Putin has nothing on the UK. No power to bring to bear. He'll continue the tough talk, but its all a charade...testing our air defences with his archaic and knackered Cold War aircraft, talking tough in the media, purely for the benefit of his own people than anyone in the international community, but so what. We don't use his gas or oil, so no reliance there. However his corrupt and rich cronies do like the UK and the benefits we've allowed them over the years, so by hitting them we will get to Putin, start to undermine him in his own country, start to help destabilise him in his current shakey position. However some of our European allies, especially the Germans, are heavily reliant on Russian energy so this will certainly test their mettle if Putin decides to try to play hard ball with our supporting allies....but he risks losing valuable income he desperately needs from those nations so he'll probably do nothing.
I anticipate things will start to quieten down now for some time.
I tend to agree with wobbliscott, we certainly have a better international standing than Russia, however I do think we need to increase funding to the Royal Navy to retain some of our international clout. We are an island nation that relies hugely on free trade, as such I think there is some merit to Dannys argument that we have lost some clout. We have - and it centres around the hollowing out of the Navy.
testing our air defences with his archaic and knackered Cold War aircraft, talking tough in the media,
That underestimates their capability, the Tu-160s are all being upgraded or have been. You don't need stealth if you have big fast bombers with huge standoff missiles.
If you look at the comments coming out the MOD and various wargames, right now - it's not so clear cut - some seem to think that Nato would get a good kicking if Russia decided to push into the Baltics. There have been arguments made the Russian army both outgun and outrange us on the ground.
why would Putin not do it again ?
Managed it with spy in London a few years ago .
we’ll continue to try to locate the suspects…who will probably never now see the light of day as they will no doubt be bumped off themselves…if they haven’t already
The last one (who delivered the polonium) has been made up into the Russian parliament. Then again, his effort was a bit more successful
for us to fire up the tanks and start rolling on towards Moscow?
Well, the lessons of history show that neither the massed armies of Napoleon or Hitler managed to succeed in invading Russia, although both attempted it in winter, which sopports the old adage ‘those who forget the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them’.
The last one (who delivered the polonium) has been made up into the Russian parliament.
I Wonder Why
Article 98
-
Deputies to the Federation Council and deputies to the State Duma shall possess immunity throughout their term in office. A deputy may not be detained, arrested, searched except when detained in the act of perpetrating a crime, and may not be subject to personal search except when such search shall be authorized by law to ensure the safety of other people.
Actually…we got sanctions re-imposed on Putins already puny and pathetic failing economy which is again hurting
Yeah, yeah right.
Failing? define failing. Stagnating more like.
We got sanctions n evreyfink...
Plenty of Russians doing very well out of thier current economic situation.
Frankly both Countries are willy waving to keep the likes of Mr n Mrs Whailing Daily occupied whilst more important issues are slowly sucking them under,
Trotsky got his ice pick in Mexico didn’t he? So not a lot of relevance to doing someone in on British soil…..
I'm disagreeing with the idea that the Soviet Union used to be dissuaded from state action by US influence (in the UK or anywhere else in the world) or that in the past they were particularly coy about what they were doing. After Trotsky's assassination, Stalin immediately awarded the killer's mum the Order of Lenin for her assistance, and he got the Hero of the Soviet Union later.
In Markov's case, I don't think anyone doubted that the KGB were involved, but our association with the US didn't appear to make the Russians particularly nervous about executing a very obvious assassination. In fact, I think the blatant nature of these killings is part of the objective. They kill one individual, but send a very obvious message to lots of other people who might be thinking about chatting.
We are an island nation that relies hugely on free trade, as such I think there is some merit to Dannys argument that we have lost some clout. We have – and it centres around the hollowing out of the Navy.
Does our loss of clout not centre more around the fact we are walking away from the EU to try and become a mighty world trade power on our own...?
Does our loss of clout not centre more around the fact we are walking away from the EU to try and become a mighty world trade power on our own…?
Yes and it's hilarious that we think we can do that with a shoestring blue water navy.
I Wonder Why
Article 98
Of course - the point was that it's quite a contrast to being killed off as was suggested for these two latest state heroes
It is, but that would be a little to obvious these days
I’m no JHJ conspiracy nut, and in all likelihood it was the Russians, but these two feel like patsies. They can get into to the UK, either with the nerve agent or they collect it somewhere, manage to poison the Skrippals, then suddenly decide to go on a sightseeing tour together and get their faces all over CCTV? Goes from highly professional to amateur hour very quickly.
but more importantly, the faux outrage of the government, public and other foreign governments is laughable when you think about it as I’m sure our security services have offed lots of foreigners on their own soil, and let’s not even talk about the CIA etc!
They can get into to the UK, either with the nerve agent or they collect it somewhere, manage to poison the Skrippals, then suddenly decide to go on a sightseeing tour together and get their faces all over CCTV? Goes from highly professional to amateur hour very quickly.
Was it not reported they have spent this long and a huge amount of man hours piecing the cctv together? Snippets to find their tracks not just a sightseeing tour.
a sightseeing tour together and get their faces all over CCTV?
Next time you walk down any street (Fisherton Street, for example) just try amd count the number of CCTV cameras you see. Try the same in an airport or mainline railway station. Then think about those that you can't see. Inside a shop, in a taxi, etc.
I suspect that one different aspect here is the potential risk to the public beyond the original targets. A British citizen (Dawn Sturgess) has died as a result of what happened.
Was it not reported they have spent this long and a huge amount of man hours piecing the cctv together? Snippets to find their tracks not just a sightseeing tour.
Fascinating background on the special police unit who do facial recognition, and it isn’t AI, or hackable...
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/salisbury-novichok-poisoning-russia-suspects
Quick update in what the hell is going on in Salisbury...
The main car park is very busy.
Plenty of tourists enjoying it all.
The Thai stall in the market had a very long queue for an early lunch. Rightly so.
Cotswold have a pretty decent sale on. Look for the original wattle and daub as you go up to the footwear department.
The umbrellas outside Waterstones still look brilliant.
A very happy chap was picking up his new Brompton from Stonehenge Cycles. Workshop as busy as ever.
In short, life's going on, and going on very well!
Seen the video yet? Bonkers!
"We go to make visit to cathedral, which has very famous spire which is 123 metres tall. And an old clock"
Source - Wikipedia.ru
It's all so plausible. Who hasn't flown into a foreign country for a couple of nights to visit a minor city on two separate days, taking special care to take in some of the finest suburban housing estates that the place has to offer?
(taking your mate who, by a weird coincidence, has a consecutively numbered passport!)
we are being trolled
not funny for the victims
proper trolled.
along the lines of "my dog ate my homework" and "yes nurse, I just fell over and impaled myself on this 12" frozen sausage".
Very true, kimbers. If it wasn't for what actually happened, this would be hilarious!
https://twitter.com/guywalters/status/1040183891603193856?s=19
Should have been the plot for Day of the Jackal.
Day of the Jackass.
If they'd watched this GRU training video, they would have been more appropriately dressed for cold weather.
“We go to make visit to cathedral, which has very famous spire which is 123 metres tall. And an old clock”
I just heard this on the radio. Paraphrasing from memory, they said it was all a "fantastical coincidence" and that they'd gone to Salisbury because friends had said it was a must-see holiday destination.
I just heard this on the radio.
Yup. Couple of days holiday and so what better to do than fly to the UK and stay in London whilst popping down to Salisbury to see the cathedral.
Considering the number of suspicious deaths of Russian dissidents recently which havent had an obvious trail to follow I suspect these two wont be getting a performance bonus this year.
Just saw the interview. What a farce. Why did the Russians wheel these guys out? It has done Putin no favours. I think a poisoning might be coming back to haunt them soon.
It appears that there are plenty of people in Russia who are less than convinced by this whole TV interview, from what a reporter was saying on the 10 o’clock BBC news. I’ve seen five year olds tell more convincing fibs than those two!
isn't that the point though....... by coming up with a shit story, they're basically saying 'yep, it was us' without actually admitting it, knowing that it is putting the fear up any other dissidents and at the same time boiling 'our' piss that there's sod all we can do about it.
They're probably drinking vodka and giggling with Vlad as we speak.
My instinct was that Putin may surprise us and cut them loose to UK authorities, but then what might they say? They are innocent until proven guilty, however they certainly should have their story brought to scrutiny in a UK court.
At the time lots of conspiracy stuff was floating around, however this does appear to be a success story for the process of police investigative procedures, unless I have missed the odd hand shake somewhere between Wiltshire police and Jimmy Saville or a Saudi Sheik.
It has done Putin no favours. I think a poisoning might be coming back to haunt them soon.
Putin has got himself far enough up the ladder, stamping on so many on the way up he is into the great dictator phase where he can't let it slip whilst being still at the height of his powers. At the moment he can get away with this, the 2 guys will have a nice retirement one way or another, perhaps they will go tandem skydiving next in Siberia.
However once his power starts to slip....
Why aren’t we aggressively shadowing these obsolete planes with our top of the range eurofighter and making the point?
As in, the eurofighters that go out to intercept pretty much all the Russian aircraft that come this way, or over the Baltic? How much more aggressively do you want them to make their point- just some small missiles to start with? Maybe only blow off the ends of the wings?
On the broader question, quite a few countries levelled heavy sanctions against Russia in response to what we said. Russia basically doesn't have a soft power network- hard power is pretty much what they have to play with. The uk still has a lot of influence around the world to work up through before it needs to start annexing larts of its neighbours.
isn’t that the point though……. by coming up with a shit story, they’re basically saying ‘yep, it was us’ without actually admitting it, knowing that it is putting the fear up any other dissidents and at the same time boiling ‘our’ piss that there’s sod all we can do about it.
I would disagree with this. I think Putin and his supporters want to be taken seriously on a global level. He needs to be seen as strong but also credible to other world leaders. I don't think he will be as happy with that charade as you make out.
Stolen from Reddit:
<div class="ghzo1t-0 cmHgru">
<h2 class="pd8yw6-0 cmzwWe">Visiting UK - travel advice needed</h2>
<div class="_1wrPey753PxLyLbB0NCEZP"></div>
<div class="_1hLrLjnE1G_RBCNcN9MVQf"></div>
</div>
<div class="ghzo1t-4 liUicR s1hmcfrd-0 ckueCN">
<p class="yklcuq-10 hpxQMr">Hi guys, me and a friend are interested in visiting England for a couple of days in early March. We are mainly interested in visiting Salisbury, famous for its 123m spire. Our plan is to fly into LHR on the 2nd, visit Salisbury for half a day on the 3rd, and then another half a day on the 4th before flying back to our home (Russia). We have booked a hotel in London for the 3 nights. We'll maybe pop round to stone henge but if its muddy at all we won't bother. We've come half way around the world but are far more interested in the world famous 123m spire.</p></div>
I'm sure there are those who STILL believe this was a UK plot to make Putin look bad.
isn’t that the point though……. by coming up with a shit story, they’re basically saying ‘yep, it was us’ without actually admitting it, knowing that it is putting the fear up any other dissidents and at the same time boiling ‘our’ piss that there’s sod all we can do about it.
This is my POV.
violating our airspace with his obsolete Cold War jets.
I think you'll find it's because when they come down the North Sea they're very very careful to stay just inside International airspace, that's why.
Yup, They're trolling everyone.
a) The people who believe it was Russia, by basically saying we've not even bothered to make up a plausible story, what'cha'gonna'do? AND
b) the ones who were sure that the "two russians" were an MI5 plot*, by saying here they are, yes they exist. How's that conspiracy worldview looking for you now?
c) also Corbyn. It looks like the evidence that wasn't enough for him is getting more solid. Has he made any comment yet?
*to hide the fact that it was Aliens carrying out a false flag operation on behalf of mossad, to distract attention from the other aliens (who escaped through the broken fourth wall in a Deadpool movie).
I suspect they first came up with the idea for this trip when they both manned a surface to air missile battery in the Ukraine?
If Russia can get away with blowing up an airliner over Europe, a little poisoning shouldn't be that much of an issue.
I do believe that they are in fear for their lives.... I don't think Putin is fond of failure especially when it brings a load of shit with it.
Russian bots are going crazy on newspaper comment sites. Don't they have more important things to do, like sowing discord ahead of the US midterms?
As in, the eurofighters that go out to intercept pretty much all the Russian aircraft that come this way, or over the Baltic? How much more aggressively do you want them to make their point- just some small missiles to start with? Maybe only blow off the ends of the wings?
You're missing the point. It's not about actual capability it's about daring to make a statement.
Can't be that difficult to stick a Go Pro in the cockpit and show the aircraft involved, then after a few seconds put a side-by-side graphic up of the relevant relative performance figures of the two aircraft. Upload to Youtube and job's a good'un.
Maybe get the RAF lad to do a token victory roll, when they're well clear of the other aircraft, obvs.
Can’t be that difficult to stick a Go Pro in the cockpit and show the aircraft involved, then after a few seconds put a side-by-side graphic up of the relevant relative performance figures of the two aircraft. Upload to Youtube and job’s a good’un.
A good what? It shows the Russians wander in, we escort them out and repeat. Putin gets to look strong at home where he controls the narrative as he taunts the west. We look like we are getting annoyed.
Well, we're into perception management now, aren't we?
I would say my 'plan' above would be interpreted as:
"They wander in (although don't actually dare violate the airspace proper) in their sooty trailed lumps of 1970s pig iron and we pop up a 21st Century aircraft. They then get out of Dodge as quick as they can".
We are perceived as being provoked but calmly just re-iterating that should something actually 'go down' we are more than capable, but for now they aren't worth the bother. Think of it like a rattlesnake's rattle.
Depends on your perspective, but painting them as a mild irritant that could be swatted should we want to would be a good idea IMO.
We could just send over a few of our long range bom....
oh ****.
As has been pointed out, they are flying in international airspace. The best response would be to ignore them but it gives our pilots something to do and makes good sabre-rattling headlines for those that don't understand international law.
Craig Murray - Loonbag
The best response would be to ignore them but it gives our pilots something to do and makes good sabre-rattling headlines for those that don’t understand international law.
I'm not aware that there are any sabre-rattling headlines, though. I could be mistaken - I don't read or even look at most of the comics that would fanfare such a headline.
It's not about sabre-rattling for me, though, it is more like outing an internet troll who portrays themselves in an impressive sounding way, but it actually a 40 year old who still lives with his parents and whose actual martial arts expertise is a shabby Bruce Lee poster on his bedroom wall rather than the ex Navy Seal stuff that he has posted online.
The TU-95 Bears that Russia 'probes' our airspace with may be old (like the B52) but they are still caperble of carrying 16 AS-15 cruise missiles each with a 200kton warhead. They can also carry the KH-15 missiles including the stealth variant. There's also rumours that they can carry hypersonic cruise missiles. All of which can hit the UK from well outside our airspace.
They may be a 1950's throwback but I wouldn't laugh at them just yet......
The bigger concern is the Russian planes tend not to have their transponders on meaning they are more a risk to commercial aviation that actual airspace sovereignty, out in the North sea this would not be a big issue but it tend to be more a problem in the Baltic which is a little more condensed in regard to short hop passenger jets.
It should be noted that Nato, read US, spy planes do the same thing.