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The OCPW will likely be visiting the labs.
Knowing how hard it is to fraudulently trick the MHRA, I find your position pretty laughable to be honest Edukator. They seem to be doing all the right things in terms of international obligations, unlike during the Iraq debacle.
well we we’d better start with old videos about what to do in the case of nuclear war as well then, and then ban anyone with a funny eastern European accent and get that good old British tradition, the concentration camp back for anyone we think looks a bit “iffy in a famous five stylee”…hey at least it will give some of the plucky Brits employment after Brexit
Are you that blindly cynical that you don't think we should have emergency responders properly prepared? Shall we get rid of the bomb disposal teams whilst you're at it? Maybe get some hippy love circles going as well?
if we suffer an anthrax terror attack like the Americans did in 2001?
Everything went a bit quiet on that after the majority of evidence suggested it'd come from a US military installation...
Are you that blindly cynical that you don’t think we should have emergency responders properly prepared?
you show me a plausible imminent threat and I'll stow my cynicism, you jingoistic, war drum banging buffoon, bet you knock one out over photo of dear Maggie in her Argentine War ensemble dont you 😉
Was your previous log in Katie Hopkins? 🙂
you show me a plausible imminent threat and I’ll stow my cynicism, you jingoistic, war drum banging buffoon, bet you knock one out over photo of dear Maggie in her Argentine War ensemble dont you
You can go and find anthrax in the countryside, pretty sure you can't go looking for bombs unless you decide to go looking for UXBs. The use of anthrax has less to do with availability than it does imagination. CBRN was due a spending boost after the massive cuts to it.
Anyway
The use of anthrax has less to do with availability than it does imagination.
I know, I've worked in BSL 4 Labs as part of my job and have had to collect "suspect white powders" in the past as well.
Really? So why are you so against the people who may be on scene without having the kind of protection that BSL IV PPE provides, having some kind of protection against that threat. Anthrax vaccines aren't exactly a huge outlay.
It's one thing doing it in a lab, it's another being asked to do it on scene potentially without the right gear on. Are forces personnel not worth that outlay?
Considering you've worked in that environment, I'd have thought you'd known better in regards to how hard it is for a non-state actor or small state to make an exact copy of a substance (out of hundreds) that the Russians use that is unknown outside of potentially all but a select few intelligence circles.
They seem to be doing all the right things in terms of international obligations
apart from condemning and sentencing Russia BEFORE the OPCW has had a chance to check their working out.
I'm not saying they're wrong - in fact I think there's a very high probability they aren't (quack quack) but we must have the highest standards, and trust in our leaders isn't at a high point right now.
Catching up, has anyone blamed the jews yet because that is all I am missing from my wacko conspiracy theory bingo card?
apart from condemning and sentencing Russia BEFORE the OPCW has had a chance to check their working out.
I’m not saying they’re wrong – in fact I think there’s a very high probability they aren’t (quack quack) but we must have the highest standards, and trust in our leaders isn’t at a high point right now.
As I said, do you think the French and Germans would pull their weight if we kicked the can down the road by 6 months?
has anyone blamed the jews yet
You forgot the code word, don't you mean bankers? *nod nod wink wink*
It’s one thing doing it in a lab, it’s another being asked to do it on scene potentially without the right gear on. Are forces personnel not worth that outlay?
as I stated previously more than happy for the outlay, IF there is a credible risk, then just do it quietly. To publicly state that your are doing it and then name countries that are the current bogey men is pure theater and just gives snappy soundbites for the press. Gavin Williamson is an utter, utter tit of the highest order and is so out of his depth its untrue.
As I've said all along, I agree with you that Russia very naught boys, but and this is a big but, you cannot escalate a situation without making sure that everything is as clear, transparent and in accordance with international law as can be. Particularly given out glorious past of totally titting it up
Sabre rattling Diplomacy via social media and press soundbites without time for quiet reflection is a very good way to arse it up again.
Whilst I'm not a fan of Corbyn, the fact that he his being roundly barracked by the more warlike politicians and right wing press, makes me think that he may be correct in his condemnation, but also in his call for caution.
IF the evidence was that strong, surely the government could have shown him the clear and concise information so that they would have unanimous backing from the entire parliament, rather than just a "trust us, we haven't lied before, honest" .
Well this thread has gone full on tinfoil helmet, hasn't it?
As with all conspiracy theories, its complete bollocks of course!
We have a government and security services that prove with wearying regularity that they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Then all of a sudden we're expected to believe that they'e involved in complex plots to bump people off, involving nerve agents, and make it look like the Russians did it?
To achieve what?
Get a grip FFS!
We have a government and security services that prove with wearying regularity that they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
Yeah, but that's what they want you to think.
Zokes, it’s been a long long time since I studied biochemistry, I’ve spent most of my time since graduating in QA, whilst my degree was quite clinically focused. Any ideas on the decontamination routine for this? Because a few arrsers are saying that the usual “hose it down with water” routine isn’t going to cut if for this, also the borderline sub-clinical effects can last for a lifetime. The sheer potency would make me worried about the effectiveness of any decontamination procedure to be honest.
Afraid that's way beyond my expertise. As with anything with a chemical pathway: dilute it far enough and you'll render it harmless, it's just that you might need to dilute an awful long time. To get 1 microgramme of the stuff diluted to 1 part per billion you'd only need a litre of water. 1 miligramme would require 1000 litres, 1 gramme and you're looking at half an olympic swimming pool, etc. Biology's much scarier as you start off with only a few cells and they grow by themselves. At least with chemicals and radiation the most you'll every be dealing with is what you have at the start!
In terms of decontamination of things that have definitely been in contact with the agent, controlled incineration would almost certainly be fine - anything organic burns if you give it oxygen and enough heat.
as I stated previously more than happy for the outlay, IF there is a credible risk, then just do it quietly. To publicly state that your are doing it and then name countries that are the current bogey men is pure theater and just gives snappy soundbites for the press. Gavin Williamson is an utter, utter tit of the highest order and is so out of his depth its untrue.
There is a credible risk, Novichok has been used for ****s sake. Who thought that was a credible risk a month ago?
And the government also have to be seen to be doing something, to allay public fears, I think that announcing how you are going to protect service personnel is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
As I’ve said all along, I agree with you that Russia very naught boys, but and this is a big but, you cannot escalate a situation without making sure that everything is as clear, transparent and in accordance with international law as can be. Particularly given out glorious past of totally titting it up
Hang on, where have we broken any international law? We have the right at anytime to boot out their 'diplomats' for no reason whatsoever.
I think we needed to throw out toys out the pram quickly, because I don't think we can entirely trust our allies to back us up on this if we give this affair time to quieten down.
As I said, do you think the French and Germans would pull their weight if we kicked the can down the road by 6 months?
Why 6 months? How can we analyse, decide and act in days but if we followed channels it takes 6 months?
Because, they are widely known to be exceedingly bureaucratic.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/14/nerve-agent-novichok-produced-russia-site-expert
There is a credible risk, Novichok has been used for **** sake. Who thought that was a credible risk a month ago?
which has got cock all to do with anthrax as well you know, why not advertise that we will also be immunizing all front line medical staff as well
"We have a government and security services that prove with wearying regularity that they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery"
totally, and yet they have without any shadow of a doubt definitely found the smoking gun in Putin's hand. I dont believe there is any funky conspiracy, just that it is no where near as black and white as May is portraying.
In terms of decontamination of things that have definitely been in contact with the agent, controlled incineration would almost certainly be fine – anything organic burns if you give it oxygen and enough heat.
Indeed, that exactly how our own stocks of chemical agent are slowly being destroyed at Porton Down - incineration.
Rachel
Then all of a sudden we’re expected to believe that they’e involved in complex plots to bump people off, involving nerve agents, and make it look like the Russians did it?
It's not that though is it?
It's more that they likely haven't got a scooby doo whodunnit, but blaming the Ruskis is very bloody convenient.
Plenty of old fashioned war comic fans will jump at the chance of another cold war and
To achieve what?
Well now you're more worried about a war with Russia than Brexit, NHS, Homelessness, Education, Corruption, Child abuse, Offshore tax and tax avoidance, Cost of royal wedding, Trump's visit, Saudi's visit, Arms deals, War in Syria, War in Yemen, BBC propaganda, Council tax rises, Universal credit, Police cuts and privatisation, HS2, WASPI, Carillion, Job centre closures, Fox hunting, Poverty, Disability cuts, UN breach, Nurses pay, Loss of CPS files, Cuts in forces, The Lie of austerity and all their other failings
but especially the new EU tax avoidance legislation
which has got cock all to do with anthrax as well you know, why not advertise that we will also be immunizing all front line medical staff as well
You know full well that we aren't immunising all forces personnel and that anthrax victims won't end up in Peterborough City Hospital.
Indeed, that exactly how our own stocks of chemical agent are slowly being destroyed at Porton Down – incineration.
Rachel
Shall we napalm Salisbury then?
Didn't that outbreak actually in reality, originate from a farm next door to Pirbright?
Do you expect us to believe that someone from Porton Down has handed a sample to SIS to kill some Russian for the lolz? Because that is what you appear to be indirectly implying by posting that link.
its not like we've ever lost anything from Porten Down in past like foot and mouth is it?
no, just showing that nothing is black and white or goodies and baddies my little warmachine spambot. What bike do you ride out of interest?
I rest my case....
Losing stuff happens, people even lose nukes. Not sure any intelligence agency has used a lost nuke to assassinate someone though.
anyway thanks for this mornings fun i've enjoyed it. i'll see you in the bunkers when the Sirens start to wail
I know someone who worked at pirbtight , the leak was caused by a cracked sewer pipe & improper decontamination in the lab.
Some of the infrastructure was pretty old apparently.
Some of the comments on this thread treating the subject as source of amusement and entertainment have been shameful, given that Skripal and his daughter are still in critical condition in hospital and it is not yet clear whether they will recover.
The fact that the Yulia Skripal - who is guilty of no more than being her father's daughter, and probably had a very hard time of it when her father was arrested and imprisoned - was also poisoned suggests a number of possibilities:
- The perpetrators were incompetent/indifferent to the possibility of any innocent victims in picking a time and place when she would be likely or certain to be included in the attack.
- It's been suggested that Yulia might have been used to bring the nerve agent into the UK unwittingly. If so, that was a truly evil act. It would also have been staggeringly reckless given that the outcome of such an uncontrolled remote 'delivery' of the poison would be unpredictable, with the potential to result in the deaths of multiple innocent persons, not least first responders.
- If the father and daughter were exposed to the agent at his home, then it was a matter of pure luck that they decided to go out and were consequently discovered by members of the public when the symptoms started. If they had stayed at home, then they would have died and their bodies might not have been discovered for some days. Moreover, the persons who would have discovered their bodies in such a scenario might have been at much greater risk of being poisoned themselves, because the cause of death might not have been apparent/identified for some time (whereas the symptoms the Skripals exhibited when they were found by the public and treated by the emergency services probably gave some warnings which helped to determine relatively quickly that it was a nerve agent).
- If Yulia was used as an unwitting mule, or some other remote delivery method was used such as sending a parcel in the post to Skripal, that might indicate that the Russians were less keen (following the forensic exposé of who murdered Litvinenko and how) to send one or more agents to the UK and specifically to Salisbury to kill Skripal, because of the high likelihood that they would subsequently be identified by CCTV etc. and/or the higher risk of getting caught.
I know someone who worked at pirbtight , the leak was caused by a cracked sewer pipe & improper decontamination in the lab.
Some of the infrastructure was pretty old apparently.
I got told something completely different in the interview, I didn't even ask them about it, they just came out and flatly denied they had anything to do with it. This is after the findings of the report were made.
I remember around the time that one of the big shots was arguing that it was sabotage or human movement that caused it, not the pipes. I'm hazy on the topic though.
Can I just check I have this right:
The attack happened in Salisbury which also happens to be where Porton Down is located?
If there is anywhere in the UK this substance is likely to have been stored or manufactured for testing it is in Porton Down?
If so then surely that's too big a coincidence to dismiss out of hand.
No, I think the Russians probably realised where he was living and thought it'd be a ****ing hilarious idea to kill him with a chemical weapon right under the noses of a world leading CBRN centre. Putin is the worlds biggest troll.
Good way to sow discord amongst the enemy as well, by encouraging conspiracy theories like that.
You know that 'Russia killed him' is also a conspiracy theory, right?
Not saying it didn't happen but it assumes a motive and proposes various ways it could have happened despite there being a complete lack of evidence to confirm it. That's a conspiracy theory.
with anything with a chemical pathway: dilute it far enough and you’ll render it harmless, it’s just that you might need to dilute an awful long time. To get 1 microgramme of the stuff diluted to 1 part per billion you’d only need a litre of water. 1 miligramme would require 1000 litres, 1 gramme and you’re looking at half an olympic swimming pool,
Great. Homeopathic Novichok rampaging everywhere.
If so then surely that’s too big a coincidence to dismiss out of hand.
If it was a bunch of random people who ended up contaminated then yes it would be sensible to look at Porton Down.
That the victims was a former Russian spy and his daughter plus a cop investigating the poisoning makes it rather unlikely especially since they were in the middle of Salisbury.
I would be expecting a few more victims if it had been released from there.
I doubt very much it was released from there. I just think it is at least as likely that it originated there rather than in Russia.
There is a lot about this situation that makes absolutely no sense to me. Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.
Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordering it.
Perhaps we already knew it was going to happen and couldn't do anything about it with blowing the cover of our super spy in moscow/or that we can hack Putins personnal phone, The "we tested the substance and it's russian so putin is guilty" is a ruse, we knew whom to blame all along.
Can we have a no sarcasm rule on this thread please? The situation has gone so far beyond parody it's impossible to tell if people are being serious or not.
As a means of (attempted) murder it leaves a whole lot to chance. This is at the same level of conspiracy as using a Fiat Uno to cause a road accident in the hope of killing a couple of passengers in another vehicle.
Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.
Thats true. However considering most things which come out of his mouth is utter shite I am not sure this is of any real significance.
Considering how potent it is, is it really scotroutes?
Putting something in her cosmetics or a present for her father/memento related to her brother's death isn't that big a gamble. Obviously there's a risk of others being hurt too (as happened) but a very high chance that the intended victim(s) would suffer. I just don't see the need for some elaborate conspiracy theory when there is a fairly obvious solution.
There is a lot about this situation that makes absolutely no sense to me. Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.
Yeah but did he simply state it, or did he paint it on a bus?
Well, I think it is somewhat significant. Just because it came out of the mouth on a moronic man-child doesn't mean it didn't come from the British government. If it was just a BJ moment then someone at the government needs to come out with a statement saying so as soon as possible.
Even with Litvinenko the government never came right out as said it was Putin (even though in that case it almost certainly was) so why the total lack of diplomacy this time around.
Why is 'Russia killed him' not also an elaborate conspiracy theory?
Because Russia has developed weapons of this type, and has a history of assassinating people it considers enemies, see eg litvinenko. And the daughter travelled from Russia just prior to the event which provides an obvious vector. Basically, it would be easy for russia to do it, and it's the sort of thing they do.
Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.
Thats true. However considering most things which come out of his mouth is utter shite I am not sure this is of any real significance.
Indeed, flaccid BloHard spouting horsecrap again.. and again.. and again.. 4 times he’s been sacked for lying, clearly this government supports liers and cheats.
Just because BloJob says something, doesn't mean it necessarily has to be wrong. I agree it's reason to be suspicious but every so often he must tell the truth by accident if nothing else.
Because Russia has developed weapons of this type, and has a history of assassinating people it considers enemies, see eg litvinenko. And the daughter travelled from Russia just prior to the event which provides an obvious vector. Basically, it would be easy for russia to do it, and it’s the sort of thing they do.
See. Absolutely foolproof.
If you ignore the fact that they are still alive and the cause identified back to the source.
Why do you have to ignore the fact that they are alive? It's pretty obvious that this was an attempt on their lives and they were lucky to survive (so far). What has that got to do with who did it?
Are you seriously trying to argue that it was some sort of accident? Hard to see the relevance of the youtube clip otherwise.
Seems like a lot of trouble to assassinate a couple of Russian expats.
surely putin could have sent over some Russian drivers...
"but they were in a lift/ swimming pool/ changing rooms at the squash court when the car struck them"
...nothing suspicious there.
could be that the governments trying to change the composition of the chem-trails to something that won't kill all the bees but causes breathing difficulties in some people.
salisbury was just a trial run. Hell we can match the craziest Russian scientists in the chemical warfare game.
Sigh....as others have said...and me actually....there is plenty of motive for Putins brand of realpolitik to include messages like the one that has been sent.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552
UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.
After being given a suspended sentence for another count of fraud in 2006, he fled to the UK to seek political asylum and became a critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Mr Glushkov also had a close friendship with fellow Russian businessman Boris Berezovsky, who came to the UK in 1999 after falling out with Mr Putin.
Mr Berezovsky was found hanged in the bathroom of his Berkshire home in 2013 and an inquest recorded an open verdict.
why the total lack of diplomacy this time around
Because last time TM was Weak & Wobbly on the issue, so now she's over-compensating
UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.
Why do we need an expensive and lengthy investigation when it's clear who did it? Just ask Boris.
I suppose Glushkov was just having a danger**** and went a bit far too.
Has anyone found any actual evidence yet?
Well there's one corpse with (apparently) indications of strangulation and three seriously ill people (apparently) poisoned by a nerve agent. That's quite a lot of evidence to be going on with. I haven't seen any of it myself but it's stretching credulity to pretend it's all fabricated.
so why the total lack of diplomacy this time around.
Because May et al have neither the skill nor the wherewithal to conduct international diplomacy. See Brexit for many many examples.
You want diplomacy? You’ve seen who our foreign secretary and defence secretary are, right?
I thought this was quite interesting,
Resident Chelsie Croes, 21, said: “They came to our house asking to check the wi-fi. The police wanted to check our internet routers. They didn’t say why they were doing it. I don’t know if they wanted to find out if we had been hacked into.”
So, as far as we know she's innocent yet she's had something of hers that holds some pretty personal data checked over. This doesn't sit easy with me. We know the government can access our internet data but if say, she had transferred some private videos of her Jilling off, from one computer to another within her home, and named that filename something obvious like Making a fish finger sandwich, then this would be shown in the log files of her router, potentially.
Does this set a precedent? Literally nothing is private.
Don’t worry. Theresa May proved when she was Home Secretary that she’s a massive respect for civil liberties
Apparently it was Israel after all
Seems like a lot of trouble to assassinate a couple of Russian expats.
I almost think they're collateral themselves. If it's Russia (quack, etc), then it seems apparent that it serves two other purposes:
1) Sends a message to all other defectors that they are not and will never be safe
2) Sends a message to the UK government that Russia can and will act on UK soil, and frankly, there's nothing the UK can do about it
I was having a conversation the other night about the general intelligence of political leaders. Putin is definitely one of the smartest alive presently. He might be one of the smartest in recent history full stop.
Putin just needs to get reelected and then pull a Xi Jinping to remove term limits, how he has engineered that I can't fathom
Whilst I’m not a fan of Corbyn, the fact that he his being roundly barracked by the more warlike politicians and right wing press, makes me think that he may be correct in his condemnation, but also in his call for caution.
And members of his own party, from comments I’ve heard on the news.
Because May et al have neither the skill nor the wherewithal to conduct international diplomacy. See Brexit for many many examples.
And what, pray tell, did diplomacy do in the previous examples of seeming state-sanctioned assassination in the U.K.?
Tzar Putin acts the tough-guy, but he’s little more than your average school-yard bully, picking on and provoking others into retaliation then acting then claiming they’re the innocent party and everyone disrespects them when all they want is to have everyone love them.
Like in Ukraine, and shooting down another country’s passenger jet.
Putin ran the KGB, he’s a master of this sort of behaviour, in destabilising governments and manipulating people, and it seems there are a significant number here who are easily manipulated as well.
Can I just check I have this right:
The attack happened in Salisbury which also happens to be where Porton Down is located?
If there is anywhere in the UK this substance is likely to have been stored or manufactured for testing it is in Porton Down?
Try looking at a map; Porton Down isn’t in Salisbury it’s on Salisbury Plain, a sodding great area of chalk downland that makes up most of Wiltshire, which is why much of the British military has its bases there, for training and live firing, and it’s why Porton Down is there, so it’s out of the way of the places people actually live.
Do some research, it’s what Google is good at!
Here’s Porton Down’s location, it’s ‘near’ Salisbury, relatively speaking, but not ‘in’
And for the real conspiracy folk, there’s even a village not far away called Palestine, right on the top right of this map:
Evidence of foul play - absolutely. But specifically Russia?? None that I have seen or that has been offered up.
Would I put it past Russia - no.
But would I put it past the UK, Israel, the US or others? Er, no also.
All have form as being sneaky b*****ds and most Governments are as crooked as sin - especially those named above.
The West needs is 'baddy'. Russia are conveniently that. They need to be maintained as such so that the agenda can continue to be pushed to allow continually increased military spending, allow unquestioned or balanced surveillance on the people and allow the general suppression of civil liberties whilst all the time ensuring that the rampant debt based consumerism required to perpetually keep the capitalist ponzy scheme is propped up.
I have no doubt that Russia quite enjoys its position as No.1 baddy too which doesn't help the situation!
One country is run by an actual Bond villain and the other a schoolteacher. Did you see the dude they wheeled out for the security council?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I rest my ****ing case lol
It's Friday and I'm pissed but yall ****ing hilarious.
And remember guys, when in doubt, blame Israel. Also bankers and that evil shithead Blair.
All those lovely lunatics like Putin, Saddam, Kohmeni, Gaddafi duck, Pol Pot, Castro, Velupillai Prabhakaran - they're just all misunderstood bros. We all want to get along really. And even if they are evil shitbags, it's because we're evil - so we can't complain - let's just let them all kill each other. It's kind of fun to watch all the fuzzy wuzzies go all killey, rapey and mustard gassey anyway.
And if we interfere in that, it's definitely because..... neocolonialism for oil.
The West needs is ‘baddy’. Russia are conveniently that. They need to be maintained as such so that the agenda can continue to be pushed to allow continually increased military spending, allow unquestioned or balanced surveillance on the people and allow the general suppression of civil liberties whilst all the time ensuring that the rampant debt based consumerism required to perpetually keep the capitalist ponzy scheme is propped up.
Riiggghhhht - that military spending that has been decimated since the height of the cold war (3.8% of GPD) and now stands at less than 2 %.
But yes, the British military industrial complex is definitely on the warpath with it's budget that is roughly half the yearly budget of the NHS.
The idea that the uk govt planned all this...to make itself look helpless and friendless... lol
....with it’s budget that is roughly half the yearly budget of the NHS.
Frankly it would be a much better use of the money if the NHS’s budget was 10x that of the military
I have seen no evidence offered it was Russia. I think thats the most likely explanation but not the only possible one
Actually, I did check google maps. 23 miles. About half an hour's drive, in fact.
I didn't think I was suggesting Porton Down was in Salisbury. Given the fact it's a village itself I thought that would be obvious but I guess if you're just looking for flaws any excuse will do.
You realise that you're just sounding desperate when you use sarcasm to say anyone who questions the government's line is being moronic? Absolutely nothing has been 'proved' and not asking questions about your government's motives is a dangerous road.
Frankly it would be a much better use of the money if the NHS’s budget was 10x that of the military
It’s more like a quarter of the NHS budget.
The proof that points to Russia is the specific type of Novichok nerve agent used, a type only ever produced by Russia and nobody else. The types of Novichok agents produced by other countries were different and all had different signatures so easy to identify the source of the agent.
So the two possible scenarios are Russia did it (either ordered by Putin or not...doesn't matter, Putin is still as culpable in both those cases), or somebody else has started to produce the specific Russian recipe of Novichok nerve agent to make it look like Russia. Only a significant government has the capability to do that. It's not that easy even for a significant government.
Dismissing the second scenario....i.e. the UK, US or other significant nation did this, then that leaves only one viable possibility....Russia.
May hasn't actually directly accused Russia, she's said words like, 'it is highly probable' (forget what BJ and others have said, that's just a side show), so Russia is suspected as the evidence points to them. Russia also has significant history and form in this area with bumping people off using poisons, and they (Putin) have motive. What we don't have is a clear idea of the means....how the agent was delivered....we're still investigating that and trying to understand that. It might be the case we will never be able to establish this. This is exactly why poisons are the weapons of choice for assassins....you can administer them to the target and by the time the target dies both they and the assassin are far away from the actual site the poison was administered so very hard to trace and establish who was involved any how the act was carried out.
However while all this goes on we can't ignore the the fact that the evidence means that almost 'beyond all reasonable doubt' the Kremlin is responsible, so we've initiated some mild sanctions by expelling their intelligence officers...a shot across the bow while we gather more understanding about how the agent was actually administered.
Or we could do what Putin wants and engage in more dialogue and he'll play us like a fiddle like he has with everyone for decades.. i.e. we either play Putins game, which hasn't worked so far, or we try something different.
Putin is a Psychopathic Dictator of the worse kind. I really don't understand why so many people are so willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Also I don't understand the conspiracy theories too...so the UK somehow managed to manufacture some 'Russian' Novichok and tried to bump off an ex-russian spy and his daughter as part of some elaborate plan for whatever (I don't know) reason. We then managed to convince a pro-Russian maverick US President to believe, or at least, go along with us and for the first time in his administration criticise Russia. And similarly with an anti-UK French President who would sieze upon the opportunity to discredit and embarrass the UK. If this were all true then that would demonstrate international manoeuvring of the most sophisticated and skilful type that no other leader of any nation has ever demonstrated. It would be extraordinary if May, of all people, had pulled this off.
No. I think the most plausible explanation is that Putin did it.
A quick update on what's happening in Salisbury
The kettle is on in the bike shop. Henderson's have finished baking, the shelves are now full (Try the seeded farmhouse). The smaller Reeve's hasn't got a queue if you fancy a sausage and egg roll. Excellent cake in the Fisherton Mill for later. The market is up, too, try Wilton Wholefoods for herbs and spices. In short, life goes on!
🙂