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That's the bit that i can't get my head round completely. Why use something that is so obviously traceable (if indeed it is, I don't believe no-one else can make it, but i do suspect there will be a fingerprint that can pretty well confirm source) unless it is a deliberate threat to show what could be done if they wanted.
But we kind of knew that anyway.
I'm generally of the 'looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, is a duck' viewpoint but at the same time, we do seem to be in almost indecent haste to act when there does seem to be a proper protocol that we aren't following.
-> IF <- I was a conspiracy theorist, for example, why are we still 'in the process' of sending a sample to the Chemical Weapons Inspectorate so they can analyse it, we've had it for a week now and it's only Novichok on our say so. I mean, could the delay be that it isn't? or that we know we made it and it doesn't match the fingerprint? or that we're frantically searching the cupboards of Porton Down / our allies equivalents to find a sample of it....... you could have a field day if you wanted. And while Putin does seem to be sarcastically trolling us, clearly he knows if they did it but also he would know if they didn't.
Well on the poison, there was a report with a graphic to show how it’s transported as two harmless sutances and then mixed to make the active poison as required. Now if a TV channel can provide that amount of information about a substance it isn’t particularly secret or exclusive.
Thanks that really is a lot of detailed information- I now have all the information I need to make my own nerve agent and bump off anyone who's flounced from the forum in a huff about fonts. Splitters. I'll check in the cupboard and see if I've got two 'harmless substances' I can mix.
Salt - ah no thats bad for you
err
Sugar. God no, thats the new salt.
Marmite - could go either way really.
This might be harder than I thought.
How about Piccalilli and tinned Mackerel?
Now I know why they cordoned off Sainsburys
A radioactive isotope is one thing (if it really was Russia) but a nerve agent raises the stakes in that it breaks international laws. If you were Vlad would you do that? When it’s so easy to kill people in so many other ways.
Bumping people off in other countries breaks international law outside of the law of armed conflict, however you do it. That’s why the PM’s words were carefully chosen the other day. Why indeed kill people in ways with the state’s fingerprints all over them? Why not fake a mugging gone wrong, car accident etc? Unless you’re an ageing autocrat in charge of a kleptocracy, trying to send a message to enemies foreign and domestic? Bit more plausible than Bond villains in hollowed out volcanoes, no?
Link, quote or source, Mefty? Not being difficult I'd just like to know what the official line is having chuckled my way through the radio reports.
why are we still ‘in the process’ of sending a sample to the Chemical Weapons Inspectorate so they can analyse it
I think that's down to the OPCW, they are literally coming over to analyse it themselves and I've read are notoriously slow and bureaucratic.
Its just odd, what gives a countries leader more support by the public than a conflict with another country and who needs that support right now regarding internal issues.
Its just odd, what gives a countries leader more support by the public than a conflict with another country and who needs that support right now regarding internal issues.
Are you talking about May or Putin?
@airtragic - I was referring to May but Putin also has an election on Sunday. Heard he bumps off his opponents though so I doubt he's worried.
the Élysée
It's ok the government are using it as an excuse to chuck £40m at a new chemical weapons lab, which sounds like the kind of escalation we don't want to be involved in! (Im sure they didn't have to announce that, maybe they thought it'd reassure the public?)
Putin's been smart on this one.
Impossible to link it directly back to Russia, especially as we seem to have no idea who, how,where got it here/did the poisoning.
All that kind of evidence will be required to get multilateral response we need.<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">(Particularly humbling for May & Johnson who have spent last 2 years taking the piss out of the EU)</span>
Portion Down doesn’t have an offensive role, we don’t “do” chemical, biological or radiological. £40m is peanuts, I’d imagine that’s a scheduled refit that someone has decided to announce given events this week.
Well im sure that officially we dont do those kind of weapons, but as its all top secret stuff, who knows?
yeah Im sure that normally they dont just announce this stuff, im just not sure itll be that reassuring as Russia will happily imterpret it as an investment in chemical weapons
"but i do suspect there will be a fingerprint that can pretty well confirm source"
I cant see that the chemicals themselves could be 'fingerprinted' back to the source
It would have be done tracing the assasins/ people who brought the chemicals into the country.
I have no idea how you make novichok, but i understand it can be made using industrial chemicals that might already be available widely
Well im sure that officially we dont do those kind of weapons, but as its all top secret stuff, who knows?
Portion hold research stocks. If [tinfoil hat on] that’s just a front, nobody I’ve ever met in the military is trained to handle them or use them, we don’t have a delivery mechanism, how do we transport and store them. Imagine we were trying to hide our nuclear capabilities, not terribly credible. Occam’s razor suggests that actually Porton is....a research establishment.
as its all top secret stuff, who knows?
JHJ knows, but just can't tell us. Y'know....sources....*taps nose*
A nation of idiots, that's us. The attack was done in a way that deliberately makes it clear that the UK isn't a safe place as regards avoiding Russian "power"… and yet many of us still run around on the internet looking for ways to blame ourselves. A nation of idiots.
A nation of idiots.
A nation of idiots just queuing up to excitedly believe exactly what we are being asked to believe.
JINGO
Putin and May were cackling when they planned this nonsense over a hearty lobster dinner
That’s the bit that i can’t get my head round completely. Why use something that is so obviously traceable (if indeed it is, I don’t believe no-one else can make it, but i do suspect there will be a fingerprint that can pretty well confirm source) unless it is a deliberate threat to show what could be done if they wanted.
We have gifted Putin the opportunity to act the strongman in the run-up to his election this weekend. Anyone would think that being caught brazenly offing a bunch of 'traitors', followed up by facing down some enfeebled European nation with threats is precisely what he wants right now.
We have gifted Putin the opportunity to act the strongman in the run-up to his election this weekend.
He had already won the election about 2 days after becoming president
As Cold War 1.0 ended, it became apparent that a country that had been worrying us so much was hollow inside. Russia should be taken seriously, but in the end it is a minor economic power. It has allowed its insecurities to lead it into behaviour that can hurt its adversaries, but in the end will prevent it from addressing the aspirations of the Russian people.
https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/03/putin-s-new-cold-war
I don't even think debating over whether Russia did it or not is real issue, my view is the Russians did it and used the substance in the full knowledge it could likely be traced back but also in full knowledge they could just deny it anyway and no one could really do anything as providing absolute proof would be impossible.
It's the same with Ukraine/Crimea, some people argue Putin totally played the West and out-maneuvered them but it basically came down to the West not wanting to start a war over it, as they won't with this nerve agent attack either. Russia doesn't have much left to fear from sanctions so Putin knows he can act with impunity - you don't need to be especially clever given that mandate.
And any time the West reacts it just feeds back into Putin's narrative back home that poor innocent Russia is being bullied and threatened by the West and needs him with absolute power to stand up to them.
Ultimately we're headed back to a 1980's cold war scenario if things don't change (i.e. Putin gives up his current crusade), what we're seeing now is just the beginning of that process.
He had already won the election about 2 days after becoming president
True, but he's still going out campaigning as if it were actually a genuine election. And if there is any moment to deploy the Mother Russia Strongman routine he loves so much, it's now.
Good post Kelvin.
edit: and fuzzywuzzy
If it does indeed turn out to be Novichok then there are only two real scenarios -
- Its a russian state sponsored kill and middle finger to the rest of the world, they want other agents to know they can be got to wherever they are and that they dont give a crap about the intervention from other governements, that or its just an act of 'strength' from Putin.
- Its bullcrap, it wasnt the Russians state but a rogue party / annexed area / other government outside of Russia intent on causing trouble.
However, Corbyn is behaving more like the adult in the room here, without verifiable proof its mental to take action - nobody imprisons a person for murder before a trial and 'proof'.
Not sure where I stand, if we are to believe news Putin is a crook, his associates are crooks, Russia are rolling back to older more nationalist times and are acting to mess with other countries as much as possible via non typical means - hacking etc and now supposedly this - it does fit the narrative.
I will personally not believe anything until its verified though, anyone remember those weapons of mass destruction.....
Good read mefty
I don't think kelvin's post is a good post.
I don't think I'm an idiot.
We see time after time that the story the public gets fed is often not really very illuminating. The home office decide what they would prefer us to believe about sensitive events, and then years later we sometimes come to understand something approaching the truth of the matter.
So why would anyone accept the story on face value?
Surely the shrewd approach is to instantly dismiss the official version as a starting point?
I think crankrider's post is a much better post than kelvin's
I cant see that the chemicals themselves could be ‘fingerprinted’ back to the source
I agree. I have no idea of the chemical formula of the compound, but it’s likely to at the most only contain CHNOSP, which makes pinning the source of it very difficult even with isotopic techniques. Usually you’d need traces of REEs and Sr etc to really pick geological sources, and even then that would only tell you the source of the precursors, which might bear no relation to the place it was synthesised.
That’s the bit that i can’t get my head round completely. Why use something that is so obviously traceable
1. It sends out a message that they can do what the hell they like, both to us, and more importantly to the people who's loyalty to el presidente might be wavering
2. He's got an election coming up so has engineered a conflict with the west (but not TOO big a conflict) to fuel paranoia at home and feed the narrative that a strong man is needed to stand up to the west i.e.: him
Its got Putins fingerprints all over it because thats exactly the way he wanted it. You're not telling me that there are less dodgy ways to kill someone that wouldn't cause so much fuss? This just suited his ends perfectly
I wish he'd just come out and get himself a nice boyfriend. The word would be a lot safer place if he wasn't dealing with his reppressed homosexuality
Surely the shrewd approach is to instantly dismiss the official version as a starting point?
Do you mean the official version coming out the UK, or Russia?
Believe what you want. Some made up false flag shit propagated on the internet… our own non-existent weapons… whatever. Wave your hands in the air with some "whatabout Blair" irrelevance. What do our security services have to gain if this is all some elaborate conspiracy theory, rather than than a show of Russian power? Why finger the Russians?
well it does distract from the absolute shitshow that the government is making of brexit, record number of deaths in the NHS, first rise in infant mortality in over a decade.
On balance i still reckon it was that putin git
Not aimed at you personally yunki, just the article makes me laugh!
You’re right that more tends to come out in the wash, but I can’t think of an example where it transpired that the heads of Govt arranged it all over dinner!
Portion Down doesn’t have an offensive role, we don’t “do” chemical, biological or radiological.
Maybe not an an overtly offensive role, that statement is true. Yet to discover the true nature and make up of biological weapons you have to construct them.. this particular piece of research leads to developing biological weapons so you can understand the chemical make up of the agent.
And, who says Porton Down doesn’t have an “offensive” role ? A bunch of Lying PigFaced politicians?
Ye..yeah right.
Possessing certain types of substances, and actually using them as weapons are two completely different things.
Have a look at whats going on with Assads Russian-backed forces in Syria. You could hardly say with a straight face that Russia is averse to the use of chemical weapons.
Perhaps all those reports of chemical weapons attacks on civilian targets are all part of a western conspiracy too?
Nice to see Jezza return to writing tomorrows Daily Mail headlines for them though
As for Porton Down, it's old news but:
"
Trials at Porton suggested that it was indeed a terrible new weapon. Uncontrollable vomiting, coughing up blood and instant, crippling fatigue were the most common reactions. The overall head of chemical warfare production, Sir Keith Price, was convinced its use would lead to the rapid collapse of the Bolshevik regime. "If you got home only once with the gas you would find no more Bolshies this side of Vologda."The cabinet was hostile to the use of such weapons, much to Churchill's irritation. He also wanted to use M Devices against the rebellious tribes of northern India. "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," he declared in one secret memorandum. He criticised his colleagues for their "squeamishness", declaring that "the objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable. Gas is a more merciful weapon than [the] high explosive shell, and compels an enemy to accept a decision with less loss of life than any other agency of war."
He ended his memo on a note of ill-placed black humour: "Why is it not fair for a British artilleryman to fire a shell which makes the said native sneeze?" he asked. "It is really too silly."
A staggering 50,000 M Devices were shipped to Russia: British aerial attacks using them began on 27 August 1919, targeting the village of Emtsa, 120 miles south of Archangel. Bolshevik soldiers were seen fleeing in panic as the green chemical gas drifted towards them. Those caught in the cloud vomited blood, then collapsed unconscious.
The attacks continued throughout September on many Bolshevik-held villages: Chunova, Vikhtova, Pocha, Chorga, Tavoigor and Zapolki. But the weapons proved less effective than Churchill had hoped, partly because of the damp autumn weather. By September, the attacks were halted then stopped. Two weeks later the remaining weapons were dumped in the White Sea. They remain on the seabed to this day in 40 fathoms of water."
The trials in Porton bit is a link BTW, I'll work out how to use the new forum properly one day.
How were things in the French Army 100 years ago Ed? I’d say that’s about as relevant.
Binners is right. If we wanted to use them as weapons, where’s the distribution and storage, where are the trained troops and delivery mechanisms? You can’t **** up with this stuff, if you don’t know what you’re doing you’ll kill more of your own side!
Both points interesting Ed, but I don't see the relevance?
Churchill's fondness for "any measures" is well known (if pretty much ignored when the lionising is going on). That doesn't suggest that we use such measures now, nor that Russia isn't behind the Salisbury attack.
The more recent trials at Porton Down also known about (a family member of mine was at the base at one point during the final trials), but still don't suggest in any way that the Russians are not behind the Salisbury attack.
What a pointless thing to post zulu, given that it self-evidently also supports the corollary.
The home office decide what they would prefer us to believe about sensitive events, and then years later we sometimes come to understand something approaching the truth of the matter.
Interesting comment, can you give one example, so that everyone can see the type of thing you're talking about?
Also, can you say what actually happened, if not what's being reported? I think that would help us all to understand how we've been misled by journalists, and why we should never trust them again.
Also, can you point us to some news outlets that are reliable, if not the ones we are using?
Britain, France and the uSA have also been supporting Assad with air strikes, Binners. It's just that they don't admit that bombing "jihadists" fighting against Assad is effectively supporting Assad even if Assad said he was agaisnt the British strikes (no doubt knowing that being critical of the British plans made the strikes more likely).
Also, can you point us to some news outlets that are reliable, if not the ones we are using?
Exaro. Oh, actually....
RT.com. Erm, on second thoughts...
The Daily Sport. They were right about Hitler being on the moon, after all. It's so obviously a cover up, it's what the government do.
Both Britian and France used chemical weapons in WWI having been first attacked by Germany with chemical weapons in breach of an existing treaty.
Churchill's attack on Russia was first use, first strike in breach of the treaty. There is a difference I think, especially as Russia had been an ally for the whole time it was involved in WWI.
Anyhow, we know Porton was testing chemical weapons on humans up to around 1989 and even if the human testing has stopped you'd have to be very naive to think there is no chemical weapons capability in the UK.
the strongest argument against this being a false flag attack is that our government just dont seem competent enough to pull it off.
The tories couldnt manage their party conference without it turning into the benny hill show
What exactly is your point Ed?
The Iraq WMD dossier was a work of fiction, but enabled the government to whip the House of Commons into a baying mob, abetted by the media, such that the few voices of reason were shouted down as apologists for Saddam Hussein.
The 14 people who died in suspicious circumstances. Should you actually take the time to read the series of Buzzfeed articles, not all of then were Russian. There's an American, and several british on the list, too. Including an MI6 agent and one of the blokes who discovered Litvenenko was poisoned with Polonium.
So no. Not 14 double agents.
Part 1.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/poison-in-the-system
John Pilger on propaganda, does that help understanding me, Kelvin. someone is telling porkies and we have no idea who:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/10/war-media-propaganda-iraq-lies
"You can't believe anything" is the tactics that Putin uses at home… Anyway, what, specifically, leads you to think that Salisbury wasn't down to the Russians, Ed? And no "whatabout Blair" response please.
Worth reading this twitter thread, rather than going down the "I don't understand this chemistry stuff, therefore I won't accept that Russia is involved" path…
https://twitter.com/deadlyvices/status/974171484787822592
Of course the Russians did this with the full intention of us tracing it back to them. Just like Litvinyenco. They are doing it as much to strengthen Putins domestic standing....looking tough to his own population in punishing 'traitors to the state' and riding rough shot over other nations....the long arm of Russia knows no boundaries and can reach its enemies wherever they may be in the world. That is why he used an agent that only Russia has. Putin knows that other nations, including the US (Obama doing nothing over the chemical attack red lines and Trumps apparent pro-Russia stance) and especially the EU, has no stomach for a fight so will ultimately roll over and do nothing. And Russia will just arrogantly deny everything and treat all other nations with disdain. If Russia was innocent, or even attempting to create the illusion that it is not guilty, then they would be taking a very different and more respectful tone.
I suspect Russia fully expected us to take some action but knew that without a full on multi national response then it will have limited impact so the ends justified the means. He gets maximum exposure to make him look strong along with his sarcastic arrogant responses, and suffers limited real impact so looks good in front of his people with up and coming elections. The timing of this attack is also no coincidence.
There is nothing sensible and grown up about Corbyn's position. He is desperately trying to divert attention away from the evidence...i.e. the Russian nerve agent used in the attack and our demands that Russia provide us with an explanation how it could have been used on an attack in the UK, to a completely different and un-related agenda like reduction in diplomatic staff around the world and Russian financial transactions in the UK trying to turn it around on the current government. A complete smoke screen and diversion tactics and pretty pathetic and amateur. Definitely way beneath the behaviour and competence of a possible future PM. Just a taste of what to expect if Corbyn was PM and faced with a real threat to our nation. Just true to form in protecting his Socialist dictator cronies around the world. We've seen it from him before. He's just looking to appease these people.
Britain, France and the uSA have also been supporting Assad with air strikes, Binners. It’s just that they don’t admit that bombing “jihadists” fighting against Assad is effectively supporting Assad even if Assad said he was agaisnt the British strikes (no doubt knowing that being critical of the British plans made the strikes more likely).
Well, they’re not using chemical weapons, have more accurate weapons and a somewhat more robust targeting policy.
Worth reading this twitter thread
I read that earlier, very good.
Anyhow, we know Porton was testing chemical weapons on humans up to around 1989 and even if the human testing has stopped you’d have to be very naive to think there is no chemical weapons capability in the UK.
Porton don’t deny having chemical weapon stocks, it’s on their website! As people are pointing out with increasing weariness, research stocks that’s not the same thing as having the capability and intent to use them as weapons.
Porton don’t deny having chemical weapon stocks, it’s on their website! As people are pointing out with increasing weariness, research stocks that’s not the same thing as having the capability and intent to use them as weapons.
But that's what they want you to think.
more robust targeting policy
Everyone they target must be a jihadist/terrorist because if they wern't western powers wouldn't be targeting them.
I can't really find much to care about the whole situation in all honesty. The guy was an enemy of Russia, we knew that when we took him in. I'm pretty sure we have topped more than a few of our own enemies in other countries ourselves. We opened up the UK to plenty of dodgy Russians and their dirty money, we sell weapons worldwide to horrible states which are then used against innocent civilians everyday. Shouting foul play about an assassination attempt seems more than a bit hollow.
"I cant see that the chemicals themselves could be ‘fingerprinted’ back to the source"
But IF Porton has managed to obtain samples of the susbstance, they ought to be able to detect the contaminants that indicate how it was made, which chemical synthetic route.
The original USSR labs were in Usbekistan or Kazakhstan, I think, & were decommissioned by the US after the Soviet break-up. They were reported to have identified the methods used to make the V-agents. I guess that's where Porton obtained their samples for comparison purposes, if they have any.
Alternatively, Porton might just have IDd the agent using normal analytical methods, and not have any of its own.
Britain, France and the uSA have also been supporting Assad with air strikes, Binners. It’s just that they don’t admit that bombing “jihadists” fighting against Assad is effectively supporting Assad even if Assad said he was agaisnt the British strikes (no doubt knowing that being critical of the British plans made the strikes more likely).
It seems like just about every country in the world has got a dog in that particular fight. Its an absolute mess.
However, only one group are using chemical weapons. Remind us who that is again.....
more robust targeting policy
Everyone they target must be a jihadist/terrorist because if they wern’t western powers wouldn’t be targeting them
Correct, well done.
So how should one pronounce Salisbury? I've always pronounced it Sauls-bury but all of the BBC presenters seem to pronounce it Sols-bury. It's driving me up the wall.
Harare.
The Syrians under Asssad's command, Binners.
The Syrians under Asssad’s command, Binners.
You're getting there. Who are armed and supported by.......?
You’re getting there. Who are armed and supported by…….?
[awaits a link showing in 1964 Britain sold them a Bren gun, some silly hats and some rubber bullets....]
But IF Porton has managed to obtain samples of the susbstance, they ought to be able to detect the contaminants that indicate how it was made, which chemical synthetic route.
This. I'm not sure what that twitter exchange is meant to prove other than Novichok is a 'class' of compounds and have different structures to VX. Sure, any analytical chemist worth his salt could characterise the compound and give its structure. But to understand how it was made, and from what materials and therefore by who - that relies on impurities and other signatures. Which is why if all we are saying is 'it's Novichok therefore it must be Russia' - I'm not 100% convinced by that evidence.
It kind of like looking at someone's hand and saying it has 4 fingers and thumb and that's enough to be able to determine whose hand it is. You don't know until you look at the fingerprints, or even better to look for the scar on the inside of the little finger that barely anyone else knows about.
NB - I'm not saying it isn't - as before I'm very much of the duck quacking mentality and it sure as hell looks like it could be, just that I'm not totally convinced - it might be Vlad hiding in the reeds with a duck decoy giggling at us.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its usually a duck
There is so much bollocks being spouted on this thread. We do analytical tests for leechables/impurities at my facility, we have acceptable amounts of leechables/impurities that I am pretty sure are specific to our facility.
https://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i6/Tracing-Threat.html
Also, you don't just send samples of Novichok by post.
Idiots.
So how should one pronounce Salisbury? I’ve always pronounced it Sauls-bury but all of the BBC presenters seem to pronounce it Sols-bury. It’s driving me up the wall.
Sols-bury is correct imo. Do you also say Oarstralia?
Given the potential magnitude of the thread, this is meant as light hearted 'banter rather than actually giving a shit how you speak and weather or not you are correct and I don't know how to insert little winkey faces anymore......
the twitter thread was pointing out that it very likely could only have been made by a nation state with a sophisticated chemicals lab, (tho I think craig murray is torn between our own government & mossad)
I suppose that could be any country really, or maybe a well financed bond villain
It does preclude that it was brought in to the UK & mixed up here, which helps the authorities a bit in tracking it down how/where it entered, Im still not convinced that even trace impurities would be enough to say for sure which precursors/how it was made, let alone finger any 1 country
(edit looking at ryanwombles link it seems they could if they have samples of precursors that Russia might have used)
either way Putins surely not bovvered
I haven't seen anyone pick up on what @wobbliscott said, above, but he speaks good sense.
up until the bit about Corbyn, yes he was
Im still not convinced that even trace impurities would be enough to say for sure which precursors/how it was made, let alone finger any 1 country
I am, and I'm also fairly sure that SIS and Porton Down are likely to have a rather wonderful collection of various precursors from lots of different known Russian manufacturers.
If they have the precursors then yes you are right
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its usually a duck
But what have ducks got to hide that means they have to wear dog masks?
I agree. I have no idea of the chemical formula of the compound, but it’s likely to at the most only contain CHNOSP, which makes pinning the source of it very difficult even with isotopic techniques. Usually you’d need traces of REEs and Sr etc to really pick geological sources, and even then that would only tell you the source of the precursors, which might bear no relation to the place it was synthesised.
Closeish, you can look up the likely formula up in the Handbook of Toxicology of Chemical Warfare Agents.
There is so much bollocks being spouted on this thread. We do analytical tests for leechables/impurities at my facility, we have acceptable amounts of leechables/impurities that I am pretty sure are specific to our facility.
Yes, this exactly. Which is why, ducks notwithstanding, I'm keen to see why the government is so certain it was Russia / getting someone like OPCW to confirm it.
And even then, if you wanted to play conspiracies as i said before,
-> IF <- I was a conspiracy theorist, for example, why are we still ‘in the process’ of sending a sample to the Chemical Weapons Inspectorate so they can analyse it, we’ve had it for a week now and it’s only Novichok on our say so. I mean, could the delay be that it isn’t? or that we know we made it and it doesn’t match the fingerprint? or that we’re frantically searching the cupboards of Porton Down / our allies equivalents to find a sample of it……. you could have a field day if you wanted.
Yes, this exactly. Which is why, ducks notwithstanding, I’m keen to see why the government is so certain it was Russia / getting someone like OPCW to confirm it
Getting the OPCW to confirm it will be being done partly to put the naysayers to rest. However, 5 of our allies have just come out and said it as well. I think we will have passed on our intelligence to them and that is likely the reason they have now decided to call out Russia.
You don't just send a highly toxic compound by air freighter overnight to the OPCW, as others have said, they come to you.
"Hello Netherlands, this is the UK speaking - we'll be sending a highly lethal chemical weapon to your country tonight so the boys at the OCPW can have a look. The sample will be landing at 9am, I'm sure your posties will be fine with that......"
You get the drift yet?
Edit: May is now getting absolutely hammered on Europe 1, after an analysis of her weak possition as PM she is being accused of hypocrisy for covering up cases as home secretary she is now reopening as PM. She’s a laughing stock. And all this is the context of Brexit in which May has already irritated many of her best allies
Our complaints about the Polonium incident in 2006 fell on deaf ears in the EU as well, in fact it has been argued that European pressure is partly what caused May to back down on the inquiry in the first place. Whilst they accuse the British of bringing this on themselves because of the city harbouring Russian crooks (who are often dissidents), they suck up to Russia for trade and gas themselves. Whilst Europe pretty much sneers and turns a blind eye to the fact that their security has been and still is, guaranteed by the Anglosphere.
You just have to ask yourself who is presently sat back laughing his tits off (probably in a suitably bond villain manner) and congratulating himself that this couldn't possibly have gone any better. Message suitably delivered to anyone thinking of going off-message and a nice stand-off with the west engineered to boot, 3 days in front of elections
As Alan would say... "BACK OF THE NET!"
It isn't a conspiracy. Its not mossad. It is exactly what it seems. Putins KGB henchmen have just bumped someone else off using some nerve agent they happen to have.
If you're seriously considering any option other than that then you really need to take your tinfoil helmet off and consider leaving the bedroom at your mums house for once. Or at least draw the curtains.
And Corbyn, et al. FFS! The Russians openly referred to people like him - in fact specifically him - as 'useful idiots' during there cold war. He's not learnt much in the intervening years, has he?
you'd hope ryanwomble
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/27/pentagon-live-anthrax-accident 😎
That's the Americans for you, they lose nuclear weapons as well.