[Closed] What particular groups beliefs do you find uterly incomprehensible?

TJ, do angels have Trade Unions?

Any fundamentalist view of any type (i.e. believe what you want, just don't force anyone else to listen to it or bash on about it being the "only way").

Also the people who say they're not religious but say they have "generally spiritual views", which always sounds to me like having no courage in their convictions.

That US arms company that puts NT bible references on gun sights. That's an ARMS company, putting BIBLE references on GUNS. Umm..?

Praise the lord!!! And pass the ammunition!!! 🙂

TJ, the vast majority of them do. In the last week how many of them have hassled you?

The question should be how much tax have they avoided, how much have you paid out of yours to reinforce their beliefs, how much have they stifled research into disease and how many people have died as a result of their preachings?

I would argue atheists are not vocal enough and that religion has had a free ride for too long.

I find almost everything incomprehensible these days from blokes that shave with five bladed razors, religious people praying for salvation to the same god that ostensibly put them in the shit in the first place, football fans that treat it like it means something, politicians that swindle and lie and say almost anything to gain power and people on both sides of the climate debate who seem to want each other killed.

And that's why I'm about to up my membership level on here!

Took your time to get here Surfer

I would argue atheists are not vocal enough and that religion has had a free ride for too long

Why don't you start the campaign for vocal atheism, show the courage of your convictions. Since the current fastest growing religion in the world is Islam,start with that. Maybe handing out pamphlets in Bradford, or outside Finsbury Park mosque would be a start.

duckman - Member
Passes tin helmets and sandbags to Vinnyeh and mudshark then ducks himself while awaiting the arrival of Junkyard

Why don't you start the campaign for vocal atheism, show the courage of your convictions. Since the current fastest growing religion in the world is Islam,start with that. Maybe handing out pamphlets in Bradford, or outside Finsbury Park mosque would be a start.

Giving up the fight so easily?

Junkyard, sandbags; re the thread on which you were very insistent that I condone genocide, by being a Christian. Oh; and as for teaching epistemology at school, do you know any teenagers?

Surfer, what fight is that? I am not an atheist.You are (as you have previously stated,apart from your brief flirtation with the worship of fairies.)

Grown ups worshipping pop stars is also a bit strange. Not talking about liking music which is a good thing, but the big fan thing. They should be in their potting sheds dreaming up new religions and stuff, and leave pop idolatry to the kiddies.

as you have previously stated,apart from your brief flirtation with the worship of fairies

Wow thats slightly obsessive and a bit "stalky"

football fans that treat it like it means something

Whether or not it means something is entirely subjective. So why do you care?

Grown ups worshipping pop stars is also a bit strange

Misplaced tribal instinct from our evolutionary background. Not really strange when you consider who and what we are 🙂

Samuri,

You underpaid the misses for that car seat, you still owe us a fiver.

,Wow thats slightly obsessive and a bit "stalky"

Neither actually, but it was memorable.

Creationists, of any religious persuasion.

[img] [/img]

To mis-quote TJ 😉

TandemJeremy - Member

If the [b]socialists[/b] would just stick to bothering their [b]MPs[/b] quietly it would help. Far too many of them seem to believe they are morally superior to [b]liberals[/b] and proclaim this loudly and [b]socialism[/b] in all its forms has such a negative effect on our society - from the refusal of the [b]Trade's Union[/b] hierarchy to allow [b]common sense to prevail[/b], to the [b]National Executive[/b].

this is why people get so annoyed with [b]socialists[/b]. [b]Socialism[/b] is probably the most harmful force after Simon Cowell

people that believe that shooting a bird that can hardly fly with a 12 bore is a sport and wallace mercer

I haven't read every single one but I cannot believe no-one's said 'religious suicide bombers', or summink similar.
That one takes the bickie, surely? I mean, would ya?

people that believe that shooting a bird that can hardly fly

Its what happens if you breed too much inside the same circles.

Folk from Calderdale would also shoot Pheasants if they were rich enough ..but instead they have to do with mating with them.

[i]I cannot believe no-one's said 'religious suicide bombers', or summink similar.[/i]

covered under 'godbotherers', I think you'll find.

[i]covered under 'godbotherers', I think you'll find.[/i]
Never thought about it like that. Which 'god' though? You don't hear of many Kafflicks or C of E's going 'BANG' do ya?

Mind you, if I ever get any Jovvies round there'll be a bang!

[i]You don't hear of many Kafflicks or C of E's going 'BANG' do ya?[/i]
you hear about lots of catholics banging choirboys, yes.

Essel - Northern ireland? Not suicide bombers but bombers in the name of religion

Fly-tippers who sleep soundly in their beds at night.
BASTA*DS!! 😡

Essel - Northern ireland? Not suicide bombers but bombers in the name of religion

Yeah, but it's not about religion, is it? It's about politics, as you damned well know. And there's f'all of them, aren't there. It's like saying that all Socialists are guilty of destroying Iraqi society because Labour took us to war there.

[i]Essel - Northern ireland? Not suicide bombers but bombers in the name of religion[/i]

hmm...can't argue there i suppose, but were they trying to force their religious BELIEFS on others? ( i honestly don't know)

but were they trying to force their religious BELIEFS on others

No the proddies tried that for a few hundred years, then gave up and decided to run a form of apartheid instead. But the bombin' and the killin' and the kneecappin' was not a great deal to do with whether you believed in a virgin birth or not...

The 240,000 Brits currently awaiting surgery for weight reduction

Nah - we were only having a bit of fun and no one else got the joke! 😉

In N.I. it was/is part religious, part turf war, part hoodlums, part stupidity - take your pick! In 5 years in this country I can honestly say the people of NI are friendlier, we have dentists you can actually go to and get real treatment carried out, Doctors who resolve health issues and an incredibly low 'real' crime rate. Its a very strange place!

Oh! And we have Iris Robinson...... 😆

Still, I'll await our 'Southern Oirish Correspondent' to hear his view point from over the top of his wellies..... 😉

People who think their atheism is de facto proof that they're more intelligent than anyone who believes in a god or gods.

And creationists.

Oh; and as for teaching epistemology at school, do you know any teenagers?

you were very insistent that I condone genocide, by being a Christian

Scientologists. Door-knocking god botherers. Rabid atheists. Anyone who tries to tell me 'how it really is'.

I'll brainwash myself, thank you very much.

anyone who thinks you can eradicate the market forced allocation of goods and services through political intervention

Do people argue for chocolate fireguards? I think this is a cleverly worded misnomer - proper reds aside, nobody pretends that tax-funded state tractor production is necessarily a good or effective thing. But there are caveats to a wholesale belief in the "market", as you yourself have said (e.g. national transport infrastructure, [i]comprehensive[/i] healthcare coverage etc). Put it another way, I notice the collective (& voluntary) hivemind of STW has been of great value in helping you with your PimpBarn project... now, how would you describe this kind of behaviour without resort to the reductive language of economics? 😀

Non-believer? Agnostic, I reckon... 😉

I come to this late but find myself in the novel but not entirely unenjoyable position of agreeing with SFB. Weird. I'll be wearing tight turquoise shorts next...

simonfbarnes - Premier Member
tories

Economists
Bankers

good casting comrade. But I aint biting. 🙂

Too tired and CSI NY is on.

g'night!

[img] [/img]

Ah, damnit!

Enjoy the overblown forensics. 😀

[i]KennyP would you rather that I used the phrase "misguided fool who don't understand the basic pricinples of science" rather than "tools" to describe god bothereres who try to scientifically proove that their pretend friend exists? [/i]

It doesn't particularly bother me what puerile insults you use. However the thread was about groups whose beliefs one finds incomprehensible. I was merely pointing out that it's incomprehensible to me that people need to resort to language such as "tools" rather than simply saying they disagree with a particular view of how the world came into being.

Oh, and for the record, I don't believe the literal idea of creationism, and neither can I be 100% there is a deity. However given that billions of people all over the world do, I'd say the evidence is far from clear cut either way.

It's certainly interesting to see that (on here at least) in the continual debate about the existence of God, virtually all the abusive language comes from the aethiest side. Personally I prefer reasoned argument, hence the reason I find your language incomprehensible.

Oh, and for the record, I find anyone who kills, or preaches hate, in the name of religion incomprehensible too.

I understand why some people have a need to be religious in a spiritual or community sense, after all it does look like there will be a series of genes that strongly influence religious belief, and it makes sense that in a social animal,capable of abstract thought, that these genes should be selected for...BUT, what I find incomprehensible is why intelligent, modern people think that THE BIBLE is their answer.
I, mean, if this book was discovered today in the Middle East, it would be denounced as a violent, inconsistent collection of made-up untruths, and peddled by hair-faced, sandal-wearing extremists.
I can actually find half-logical some of the beliefs in the Koran, and the relevance to the period and time of when it emerged, but the Bible just dumfounds me... sorry.

It's certainly interesting to see that (on here at least) in the continual debate about the existence of God, virtually all the abusive language comes from the aethiest side.

yeh the christians just had the spanish inquisition, the mass subjugation of indiginous peoples all over the world and all religions has caused more "justified evils" than anything else I can think off. so I suppose in that context calling a generic someone a tool makes me a bad person. 🙄

even if a billion people believe the earth is flat and sits on the back of 4 elephants it doesn't make it true. The number of people involved in a belief gives it no validity whatsoever.

As I understnd it, religion is about faith, therfore trying to prove the existance of a god through a pseudo scientfic rationale such as IDT or creationism only weakens any postion that its proponents have.

If your belief/faith/blind hope gives you strength and a moral compass for life, then that is fantastic.

I just wish folks don't try to dress up a belief with the use of millions of dollars such the answers in genesis group of creationists who have succeeded in getting creationism taught in schools in america as a valid science not as an alternative religious theory.

hope that's a bit less purile for you.xx

kennyp - Member

.....................
Oh, and for the record, I don't believe the literal idea of creationism, and neither can I be 100% there is a deity. However given that billions of people all over the world do, I'd say the evidence is far from clear cut either way.

Oh good - some evidence that god exists? Where - please let us know.

In this you show your ignorance of what "evidence" means. There is no evidence that God exists.

I find it incomprehensible that humanity as a whole doesn't seem to be dealing with the fact that massive overpopulation is the source of every problem.

A few million atheists living with a few million Jews and a few million Creationists driving a few million 4x4's..........we, and the planet could cope with that, and all get on nicely.

Hence I think it is mad that people think there are problems with religion, climate change etc. etc. It's all overpopulation. Deal with it now, one child per couple world wide. Forced snips and massive penalties for disobedience.

"A few million atheists living with a few million Jews and a few million Creationists"
So it's all the fault of the Catholics, Christians and Muslims then is it?

[i]Deal with it now, one child per couple world wide. Forced snips and massive penalties for disobedience. [/i]
Gas chambers perhaps?

[i]In this you show your ignorance of what "evidence" means. There is no evidence that God exists[/i]

but there is eveidence that millions of people believe s/he does, find immense comfort and happiness from that belief and, contrary to stwista dogma, don't spend all their time 'ramming it down other peoples throats'.

Why can't you (and your ilk) show some respect and tolerance for peoples faith and accept that 'religion' like many human cultural phenomena is inevitably going to be used by extremists for their own divisive purposes.

From Wiki ( a favourite of yours I think!)
[i]faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."[/i]

I'm sure you have beliefs which are not scientifically verifiable, so why not live and let live instead of the constant taunts and insults.....

Anyone who reads The Daily Mail.

Hilldodger, could not agree more with your last post.

I am an athiest, I don't shout it from the rooftops, the rest of my family are Christian. We have all made our choices in terms of what we believe and are content with that. Its a live and let live all the way.

Bored with all this religion cr@p, lets have something we can all agree on:

People who think it's a good idea to turn their rear foglights on as soon as it starts raining.

People who think they are too special to use the left hand lane.

Why can't you (and your ilk) show some respect and tolerance for peoples faith

I [i]tolerate[/i] people worshipping Man Utd (or any other footy team), but don't particularly [i]respect[/i] it. Likewise for religion.

Growing up in the UK, with its established church, 'ruled' by a monarch who is keeper-of-the-faith (to whom's family we must all defer) and having bishops in the House of Lords (despite the fact that the majority of people have no involvement with the C of E or any other church) it is difficult to avoid religion.

People who think anything to do with cars or driving is remotely interesting ?

hilldodger - Premier Member

Why can't you (and your ilk) show some respect and tolerance for peoples faith and accept that 'religion' like many human cultural phenomena is inevitably going to be used by extremists for their own divisive purposes.

..................

I'm sure you have beliefs which are not scientifically verifiable, so why not live and let live instead of the constant taunts and insults.....

Now I know you like attacking me for reasons I do not understand - but how about limiting it to things I have done ( of which there are plenty) rather than making stuff up.

I do not go for constant "taunts and insults" and I have a lot of tolerance for religion. However when someone talks about "evidence" in relation to religion it is like a red rag to a bull - as there is no evidence.

Religion is not harmless - it causes much damage and the adherents of religion have shaped our society in ways that are not helpful at all. If people wish to follow a religion in the privacy of their own home then that is fine. When it is used as a justification for war or for restrictions on what I can and cannot do then it is simply unacceptable in a civilised society.

Religious adherents have a great influence on society and that I resent strongly.

[i]Religion is not harmless [/i]

TJ, it's not the religion that causes the harm but some of the people who use it as an excuse to justify their non-religious behaviour....

[i]When it is used as a justification for war .[/i]

So a group persecuted for their beliefs would not be justified in fighting for the right to uphold them ??

[i]or for restrictions on what I can and cannot do then it is simply unacceptable in a civilised society.[/i]

So how has your behaviour been restricted by someone elses religious belief ?

...as for attacking you, well let's just say we've all got our 'red rags' eh, and I find your endlessly repetitive postings mine 😉

Religion does cause harm - from the spread of aids becuase the catholic chuch won't allow condoms to restrictions on medical research becus3e of religous sensitivities

Justification for war - both gulf wars for starters

restrictions on what I can do - buying alcohol on Sundays for starters.

Hilldodger - as I say - attack me for what I have done is fine but inventing things to attack me for is tedious in the extreme.

[i]Hilldodger - as I say - attack me for what I have done is fine but inventing things to attack me for is tedious in the extreme. [/i]

TandemJeremy - Member
Godbotherers. I don't understand them.

TandemJeremy - Member
If the godbotherers would just stick to bothering their gods quietly it would help. Far too many of them seem to believe they are morally superior to atheists and proclaim this loudly and religion in all its forms has such a negative effect on our society - from the refusal of Catholic hierarchy to allow condom use to prevent aids to the suicide bombers.

this is why people get so annoyed with godbothers. Religion is probably the most harmful force after capitalism

So you don't find any of the language you've used there in anyway insulting, provocative or disrespectful to peoples beliefs ??

restrictions on what I can do - buying alcohol on Sundays for starters.

Is there a restriction on Sunday alcohol buying ? not in England

Religion does cause harm - from the spread of aids becuase the catholic chuch won't allow condoms

There is no higher incidence of HIV infection in Catholic cultures than non-Catholic cultures !
In fact, if the Catholic views on sexual conduct were followed more tightly the spread (of AIDS) would be reduced, not increased. So one may argue that it is the lack of rigour in following Catholic beliefs that has caused the 'spread of AIDS' and the beliefs themselves are promoting healthy sexual behaviour.

However when someone talks about "evidence" in relation to religion it is like a red rag to a bull - as there is no evidence.

You really [i]don't[/i] understand do you - the 'religion' is a set of beliefs and the people who follow them.
There is evidence for the religion, (I mean we're talking about it so it must exist, right?) but perhaps not, at least by your criteria, the objects of belief.

i'd add people that believe something because they've taken the time to read it. this applies to Daily Mail, Express, koran, bible and any other religious texts.

religions and their followers.

people that walk around in a hijab/burka thing in london (or anywhere else for that matter) sweating like a pig underneath. not neccessarily anti islam (although i am on the basis of it being a made up bullshit story), but rather having to get from my mates place near brick lane to liverpool st station on a sunday. it induces a gag reflex.

[url=

connelly on the subjetc.....NSFW[/url]

that half bent bloke, mika. he's proper shit and offensively so. mate and i got chucked out of the V festival for throwing bottles at him whilst off our tits. 🙂

kids. specifically the two boys in my kids class yesterday.

there is so much more but i'll just get myself pent up and pissed off about it and frankly there is very little i can do about it sitting here in my kitchen.

Pointless as it may be to engage with you.

I actually understand a lot about religion both the Christian sects and other religions. I understand religion. I do not understand how people can believe in it.

As for you comment on the catholic church and condom use you are so wrong it simply is not true.

You on the other hand are ignorant and vengeful and will thus be ignored in future.

Is there a restriction on Sunday alcohol buying

Yup, no buying of booze before 12-30 on a Sunday in Scotland(or it may be 12-00 I'm not sure). To be honest this is little more than a hang over and let's be honest who really wants to buy booze at that time on a Sunday.

There is no higher incidence of HIV infection in Catholic cultures than non-Catholic cultures !
In fact, if the Catholic views on sexual conduct were followed more tightly the spread (of AIDS) would be reduced, not increased. So one may argue that it is the lack of rigour in following Catholic beliefs that has caused the 'spread of AIDS' and the beliefs themselves are promoting healthy sexual behaviour.

That is particularly shakey ground you are on there. Whilst it is true that adherence to the strict Catholic views on sex would prevent the spread of all STDs it is also safe to say that the reluctance to accept the truth that it is an unworkable and ineffective policy has done more harm than good. To paraphrase Voltaire the search for a perfect solution should not be at the cost of an effective solution.

Incidentally I know of many people who identify as Catholics who do not follow the churches teachings on contraception and I'm not talking about young people either. I'll lay odds that many Catholic women use methods other that the rhythm method.

[i]You on the other hand are ignorant and vengeful[/i]

😆 Romans 12:19-21 😆

[i]and will thus be ignored in future[/i]

Result....

So you're prepared to criticise something you don't understand....

I think it bizarre that you should think otherwise. I also criticise rapists yet I don't understand why they do it...

Hilldodger is right in one, probably only one sense, that is that religion may not be the actual cause of war, genocide and racism etc.
All conflicts between humans are the same as any social species - conflicts over RESOURCES, TERRITORY and SOCIAL STATUS, and these things would be going on with or without an invented cultural structure like religion.
Still, as humanity is supposedly self-aware, and has the ability to reason, thats not an excuse for NOT getting rid of it.

illdodger - Premier Member

.................
"and will thus be ignored in future"

Result....

[i] let's be honest who really wants to buy booze at that time on a Sunday[/i]

well TJ for one, expect it's just for his "breakfast brandy coffee" though 😉

[i]To paraphrase Voltaire the search for a perfect solution should not be at the cost of an effective solution.[/i]

yes, I agree - but if you're looking to criticise belief systems on the basis of their impact on human health then there are far better targets than TJ's 'Catholic church spreads HIV' - I was just putting one alternate view for the sake of this discussion.....

Yup, no buying of booze before 12-30 on a Sunday in Scotland(or it may be 12-00 I'm not sure).

It changed last year, Sunday hours are the same as every other day now. About October I think so very recent.

[i]You are the one wasting your time attacking me. I do not set out to attack you constantly.[/i]

Funny that you should think an exchange of views (and one in which I've used no insulting or abusive language ) is an attack 😉

[i] I wonder what is going on in your mind that you find it necessary to attack someone all the time.[/i]

On call, bored, fun winding you up - simples 😆

[i] I also criticise rapists yet I don't understand why they do it... [/i]

No, but you do understand the act and concept of rape so are able to assess it as an act if not the motivation for it...

Hilldodger - you clearly are making personal attacks on me and doing so deliberately. There is a significant difference between debate and personal attacks.

Are you really that sad and unfulfilled that it amuses you to make these attacks? How sad.

[i]and will thus be ignored in future[/i]

apparently not 😆

Barsnleymitch wrote:

A few million atheists living with a few million Jews and a few million Creationists"
So it's all the fault of the Catholics, Christians and Muslims then is it?

Haha, forgot how careful you need to word your posts on this forum! Don't have the space to list every creed, race and religion, this is a random few to get the idea across.

Andyp wrote:

Gas chambers perhaps?

Would you believe I don't even read the Daily Mail? Equal rights to one kid for all, no discrimination (except, naturally, against fat overweight benefit scrounging single mothers, and the slackers that sired them). I'm pro life, just in smaller quantities. Gas chambers are for baking comestibles in and for small scale one-at-a-time crematoriums 😆

the bogtrotters.

chuckle.

the bogtrotters.

except it's rare we can agree on anything 🙂

Junkyard, apologies, not you.TJ,telling somebody you are going to ignore him, then not...pretty funny. Listing examples of how God affects your life,even funnier!

"Haha, forgot how careful you need to word your posts on this forum! Don't have the space to list every creed, race and religion, this is a random few to get the idea across."
Aye, dont upset the Catholic massive, I'll have to get all spanish inquisition on your arse! 😉

On threads like this it's worth remembering -

"You can't use logic to talk someone out of a position that they didn't use logic to get into in the first place."

Rational discourse is dependent upon shared assumptions.

Back to the OP

The Vegetarian Society

Back to the OP-

Mormons.

Its too close sounding to the excellent group the Moomins. It can be confusing 😕

Its too close sounding to the excellent group the Moomins.

to be fair, I think moomins are a different species, like snorks, hemulens and hattifatteners

You made that last one up Barnes!

I know but when I tell people that Im a Moomin (usually after a few jars)- they mishear and think I want to talk to them about Jesus.