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I still haven't changed my car (see previous threads and posts on every 'what car for....' thread.
Had a MK1 focus, the 1.6 petriol, it was awsumz. Had a MK2 focus, 1.8 petrol nearly 2 years - it's not awsumz, just a nail, a bad egg, you get um sometimes.
Anyway, it's put me off having another, I'm convinced some of the issues are caused by it being such a heavy lumbering lump and the majority of my miles being on shit roads.
As much as I'd love one/it would be ideal for everything besides work, I just can't justify a proper 4x4.
So, I need something that will fit 2 bikes inside, 1 with only front wheel off. Something bombproof, that I can do 20,000 miles a year in on crap country roads, but can take on longer trips too.
Difficult bits - under £4k and not be a granny-mobile, I'm into motorsport, and just can't drive any old POS.
Why do the bikes have to be inside?
Sounds like an early Mk2 Skoda Octavia Vrs estate to me
Bangernomics. Get an old Merc Estate. There is a good reason they are the Taxi of choice in 3rd world Africa.
Something like [url= http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201601059832784?postcode=bt366dn&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&price-to=4000&price-from=3500&radius=1500&search-target=usedcars&fuel-type=diesel&sort=default&engine-size-cars=3l_to_3-9l&body-type=estate&page=2&logcode=p ]this?[/url]
[img] http://pictures2.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=cef9b2e53bb74222a24571b9e4f0e186 [/img]
Although I have to say that your requirements
something that will fit 2 bikes inside, 1 with only front wheel off. Something bombproof, that I can do 20,000 miles a year in on crap country roads, but can take on longer trips too.under £4k, not a granny-mobile, I'm into motorsport, and just can't drive any old POS.
are a bike moon-stickesque for that budget. The first thing I thought of was something like a [url= http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201512019131224?make=subaru&fuel-type=petrol&page=1&postcode=bt366dn&search-target=usedcars&engine-size-cars=3l_to_3-9l&radius=1500&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&model=outback&sort=default&logcode=p ]3.0ltr Outback R. [/url] Lots of power, masses of space, chain driven na engine, ground clearance...but permanent awd and super thirsty for doing 20k a year.
Maybe a Octavia Scout 2.0 TDI? I think they come in 2wd flavour.
subaru forester would be my choice
I had a Scout - it was great until it crapped it's engine (oil pump drive failure - common problem on VAG 2.0 TDI PD engines from that period) so I'd recommend going for a petrol one. They are pretty rare and sought after though so you'd be lucky to get a decent one for that money (the standard 4x4 Octavia is generally cheaper).... the OP did say non 4x4 though.
Merc C / E Class or Volvo V70 estate would be my choice for that sort of money I reckon. Or a well-maintained Passat B5 with change to spare.
I would avoid vw's - our Touran ate through wishbones and suspension stuff on rural roads.
The first thing I thought of was something like a 3.0ltr Outback R. Lots of power, masses of space, chain driven na engine, ground clearance...but permanent awd and super thirsty for doing 20k a year.
Damn right! Treats dirt roads like they're mirror smooth, but 20mpg ..?
But the sound of a flat 6 on full chat is hypnotic!
For rough road survival look at the cars that run well in the third world/Balkans.......suspension arms/bushes ease of replacement would be a qualifier for me based on your rough road mileage........or just buy a cheap end 4x4......
2CV
It's very #moononastick I know, particularly as I also forgot to add: take a labrador, a few shotguns and all my shooting kit in the back.....
In the tradition of 'suggest what you own' - Peugeot 307 SW 2.0 Hdi.
135 bhp so it's not slow, takes a bike with both wheels on, 3 bikes + 3 people with front wheels off, 50+mpg.
Suspension is 'tuned' for french roads, so as long as you don't want to go around corners it's great! Should be some in your price range?
rough road survival look at the cars that run well in the third world/Balkans.....
Old Mercs and VWs, then.
Currently have an E220 diesel Mercedes. Panzer-Wagon, Stuttgart Taxi, call it what you like, it goes and goes and does so in a little bit of luxury. Previously had a C240 with a V6 petrol but that was thirsty!
Big, strong and fairly bulletproof if looked after. Tons of room in the rear for bikes (especially in the E-class). Takes Kayaks and Sups on the roof to the beach, bikes inside and getting to the slopes is a pleasure. Cost £7500 for a 2007 Elegance facelift model last year.
Lada.
Forget the specific car for a second, i'd look at something with 15/16" wheels and 50/55 profile tyres. This will have a huge impact on ride comfort compared to something with 18" and 40 profile tyres for example.
Car wise, I agree with the old Merc comments, a very dependable car. Subaru Outback would also be worth looking at. the 2.5 petrol isn;t quite as bad as the 3.0 in terms of fuel.
A Skoda Yeti could be a winner, but for £4k id would be quite a high miler. Personally i'd look at a base model Octavia.
Thanks for the suggestions, Subaru's would be ideal, Outback or Forester I'd love, but the fuel economy and road tax would be a bit of a killer...... I've got to compromise somewhere mind you, either would still be cheaper than a proper 4x4 and more practical 95% of the time if fitted with a tow bar. One upside is that I do get 45ppm for about 10,000 of my miles each year as they're for work, I ought to factor that in.
I'd happily go for a 4wd car, just not a proper 4x4.
Anyone with experience of Suzuki SX4? Look terrible, but the 4grip could be a possibility, they appear quite roomy.
Not keen on anything VAG or Peugeot diesel to be honest, every mechanic I know (quite a lot) wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.
I'm intrigued ...... what exactly are these terrible country roads that you travel 20k/yr on?
'm convinced some of the issues are caused by it being such a heavy lumbering lump and the majority of my miles being on shit roads.
In my experience a heavier built car will stand punishment better, and crashing into potholes at faster speeds do not help either.
You will not find the perfect car, but how about an Audi Allroad? (not frugal though)
sharkbait - MemberI'm intrigued ...... what exactly are these terrible country roads that you travel 20k/yr on?
I'm convinced some of the issues are caused by it being such a heavy lumbering lump and the majority of my miles being on shit roads.
The other point to mention there is that Ford Focus('s?) aren't exactly heavy cars. Not by any stretch.
2005 ish diesel Honda CRV. You can get one with 100K miles for a few thousand and will easily do another 100K (mines on 220K).
Built to last. Proper wheels/tyres. Decent ground clearance. Not really a 4x4. +40mpg.
what exactly are these terrible country roads that you travel 20k/yr on?
You ever been to Surrey?
You ever been to Surrey?
* looks for surrey on Google Maps *
..... No, is it bad?
I'm a building inspector, live on a farm, very rural, nearly all of my miles are on not great A roads, potholed back lanes (majority) and gravel tracks etc.
Bangernomics. Get an old Merc Estate. There is a good reason they are the Taxi of choice in 3rd world Africa.
rough road survival look at the cars that run well in the third world/Balkans.....Old Mercs and VWs, then.
which are great if it were not for the MOT requirement here ...... anyone thats ever been an an old merc or VW taxi in third world countries would know that what it really tells you is that your engine is ok to run on 3 cylinders and with no suspension bushes at all.......
Mostly what i see in africa is toyotas and nissans - mostly(but not always) ex early 90s taxis from europe - holland mostly in nigeria and germany mostly in eg.....
not be a granny-mobile, I'm into motorsport, and just can't drive any old POS.
and you drive a focus currently ?
As usual and predictably im going to put a vote in for a 1.6 petrol berlingo. Cost about a 5er . can be fixed for pennies and handle rough roads with ease.
we have 2 and a land rover - and live on a potholed lane/farm track.... the berlingos are far better at negotiating the bumps in the lane than the land rover AND go better on the road.... how ever the berlingo cant cross the "ford" that was a bridge - nor fence deep snow we seem to get....
20,000 miles a year in on crap country roads
I cant think of anything worse than the 5 series with M-sport suspension and run flat tyres suggested above!!
warns74I cant think of anything worse than the 5 series with M-sport suspension and run flat tyres suggested above!!
You can't please all of the people, all of the time. I struggle to imagine 20,000 miles a year on rough country roads unless OP is travelling door to door in a rural area for business. Presuming a decent amount of that would be A roads. Then again, I don't know.
What I do know though is that wheels and tyres are pretty easy to change, and that it's very difficult to get a large, sporty, bombproof car for 4k.
XC70. AWD 2.4 or D5. Or T6 Geatronic if you can find one and wont performance over economy.
DH bike in back with seats down and wheels on.
[i]Difficult bits - under £4k [/i]
Also kinda implies you'll need it cheap-to-run too?
You're in moon-on-a-stick territory.
But, in your position think longer term and buy a new(ish) base-level Dacia. It'll probably be cheaper in the long-term vs a selection of expensive to maintain older cars, use to rough-roads etc.
Ok, so it's not anything anyone else will look 'up' to, but you're on your second old Focus...
You can't please all of the people, all of the time. I struggle to imagine 20,000 miles a year on rough country roads unless OP is travelling door to door in a rural area for business. Presuming a decent amount of that would be A roads. Then again, I don't know.What I do know though is that wheels and tyres are pretty easy to change, and that it's very difficult to get a large, sporty, bombproof car for 4k.
Jimjam, I'm not singling you out, my comments were based on having owned an E61 M sport touring, living in Surrey and driving to rural parts on a weekly basis.
Unless I missed it I don't think the OP mentioned "sporty". The focus of his posts have been around coping with rough lanes, farm track etc. something that this type of car does very badly to the point where you wince over every road imperfection and fear for damage to the front splitter!
OP: you mentioned no VWs etc, what about the 2003 era Passat estate? I thought they had a good reputation for reliability and come from an age where small wheels and bigger volume tyres were in. Also within budget.
Anyone with experience of Suzuki SX4? Look terrible, but the 4grip could be a possibility, they appear quite roomy.
We have one right now, albeit the 2WD version. It's not remotely suitable based on your criteria. It's a small car with a high stance which has advantages, but fitting bikes in the back is not one of them. The seats when folded take up a HUGE amount of the boot space and I've long since given up trying to get bikes in there (I use an tow-ball mounted rack).
I should also add that the steering is heavy at slow speed, the rear suspension fairly poor and the engine (we have an auto) very noisy. The paintwork is the best I've had on any car though and it's been very reliable.
That said we've had it several years and still love it for possibly sentimental rather than objective reasons 🙂 I'd happily sit on motorways, A-roads and B-roads in it but not bad roads.
Unless I missed it I don't think the OP mentioned "sporty". The focus of his posts have been around coping with rough lanes, farm track etc. something that this type of car does very badly to the point where you wince over every road imperfection and fear for damage to the front splitter!
Reading between the lines, I took this comment to mean he wanted something sporty.
can't be a granny-mobile, I'm into motorsport, and just can't drive any old POS.
TBH I've already said, my first thought was a Subaru Outback/Octavia Scout/All-Road etc but I believe the OP's requirements would be tough to achieve. Harsh ride aside, I didn't think it was a bad shout.
How rough roads are we talking?
Assuming you're not bending rims/pinch flatting tyres too often, anything should be OK, though speaking from recent experience my current VAG car seems to be more durable than my last Ford car (and a Ford hire car I had with similar mileage and fairly "loose" feeling suspension).
There may be other better options out there of course, but the Octavia estate mentioned by some will probably do the job. If you get a diesel VRS, STW will implode though.
Buy this:-
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/183571/1999-avant-quattro-seater-wirral
Then use the £2800 left over to fuel it for a while.
My mate is a GP in North Wales. He drives on almost every crap/rough road /farmtrack/lane around visiting patients.He bought a Volvo xc 70 estate car. It carries his bags o' pills and his bikes no bother.
Well, having said not 4x4 or granny-mobile POS, a mid 2000's Honda CR-V has emerged as the front runner, they're cheap, plentiful, driven steady by old folks and appear well looked after as a rule.
I'd have thought that might be a bit small for the bike criteria?
Are you thinking CRX maybe?
My old boss had a CR-V
A nice enough drive and good space.
They had endless suspension problems, that cost a LOT to fix IIRC. Mind you the road to their house at the outdoor centre was more cart track than road, plus lots of snow, plus when the main centre drive froze up they would off road it up farm track.
[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8506/8406677972_d1d60484bb_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8506/8406677972_d1d60484bb_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dNSqtE ]22/365[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr
I have similar criteria to the OP, and I think bad roads wise he's probably talking of the same problems - rural roads, B and below. Springs creating potholes and lumps, subsidence and tractors giving already narrow roads a sharp edge, people driving like lunatics along single carriageways that mean you get to find these edges fairly quickly... our S Max has cost me a fortune in tyres. I'd like to replace the 17/225/55 with smaller wheels, but I've no idea whether going to 16" is desirable or just a waste of cash... but essentially we keep flatting or damaging tyres on the edges where replacement is the only option.
Car wise I've narrowed it down to (family) - XC90 like everyone else and live with the bills, T5 Transporter which will tick a few other boxes but might be no better on these roads, or CR-V and accept a slight loss in space (get a trailer maybe, but still only has 2 proper rear seats for 3 children). The little car doesn't have the same issues, so it's either the car or the driver - it can't be the driver, she told me so 🙂
If these roads are as chronic as you guys are making out perhaps you should be considering something with leaf springs? Maybe a double cab pickup with a truckman top?
XC90
very heavy on suspension arms and tyres. Prepare for deep pockets.
I would go with a Subaru, mitsubishi (ASX, outlander etc) or a Suzuki (grand vitara). They are built tough and models like the Forester are raised up slightly.
Only other thing I would consider would be a land rover if you are prepared for the land rover "experience" (some people are, some people aren't), a merc as they are generally built like tanks or something like a Korean SUV (Kia Sportage etc as they do 2wd versions that will be easier on the pocket).
why would you want cart sprung dirt technic (leaf springs) for rough roads.
cart springs are only good for carrying loads.
they are absolutely HORRENDOUS to drive.
make me sea sick when they are unloaded.
make me sea sick when they are unloaded.
Leaf springs just make think
"Suspension? What suspension?"
Citroen Xantia HDi.
bumps? what bumps?
If these roads are as chronic as you guys are making out perhaps you should be considering something with leaf springs? Maybe a double cab pickup with a truckman top?
Most of the South Loch Tay populus drive 110's or 130's with truckman - or a tractor. Even the school bus is a 110. 😆
When we first moved there, a section of road was so rough everyone used the grass verge to save the bottom of your car from being smacked off the road.
Even now in 'done up' mode, it has cracks, potholes and edges formed of 3" stones piled into the drainage ditches, as so many tourists tried to pass without passing place and slid into ditches.
Drive 8 miles of it each morning and back each afternoon, and often twice for work as well in the day, for 6 years, and you get good at knowing each smooth section, each rough section and every pothole, and when the council (won't) come and de-ice or repair....
trail_rat - Memberwhy would you want cart sprung dirt technic (leaf springs) for rough roads.
cart springs are only good for carrying loads.
they are absolutely HORRENDOUS to drive.
make me sea sick when they are unloaded.
Because they extremely durable, cheap and a piece of piss to maintain/replace. I replaced the shocks, shackles, bushings on my Hilux and had a couple of broken leafs replaced by a local company which was the only thing I couldn't do myself. It was so cheap I was embarrassed. £15 or £18 iirc.
As for making you sea sick while driving, well I guess you must be a sensitive flower 😉
[XC90] very heavy on suspension arms and tyres. Prepare for deep pockets.
This. I found that struts also died and droplinks went regularly (This is over a 12 year period with the same car though)
XC90 off the list then. Leaving more or less Discovery as the car in a bus disguise option. Bet that's equally economical.
Mitsubushi would be up there, but they are rare beasts. I don't do new, partially because I'm too mean, but also because I can guarantee I'd get a deer through the front driving it home from the dealer.
Suzuki better than the CRV? Not really looked at them, that's another option ta. Seem to come in quite cheap too.
Saving Subaru for myself 🙂 and old Legacy might make a good 2nd car now the boys are bigger, the 206 won't cut it for much longer.
Bet that's equally economical.
Worse .... by a good margin.
I barely feel the potholes in my knackered old mk4 golf estate.
Get a bit sea sick though...
I had a similar requirement recently and bought a petrol Mazda CX-7. Mine was a bit more expensive but there are a couple of autotrader in budget with higher mileages.
Quick for an SUV (sub 8s 0-60 due to the 260bhp engine), handles like a GTi car, great spec level and very comfortable. Only downside is it's not exactly efficient on fuel though. Not done any real off-roading (and don't expect to) but it's been used on loads of rough country roads without any problems and was useful in the recent flooding in Aberdeen.
As for making you sea sick while driving, well I guess you must be a sensitive flower
Hardly my landy is hardly luxuary driving but its still better than those faux by fauxs hilux that bob their way down the road because it has coil springs.....
i must admit the hilux's i drove past on the sauchen road last week did look quite cute taking a bath in the water - apparently they dont like water them hiluxes.....
trail_rat landy fanboyi [s]must admit the hilux's i drove past on the sauchen road last week did look quite cute taking a bath in the water - apparently they[/s] dont like [s]water[/s] them hiluxes.....
Oh you're one of those guys 😳
Anyway yeah, I agree. Hilux's are absolutely crap off road. Crap. That's why that bastion of rugged reliability, the landrover is the worlds number one improvised fighting vehicle, and famed all over the developing world for it's bulletproof durability meaning export values are through the roof, even on non runners. Hilux's on the other hand are sought after by stockbrokers and the like for posing about London so they are.
What's that phrase they use in outback....if you want to go into the bush, take a landrover. They must love landrovers there too 😆
All the cliches in the world.Your still running cart springs.
I believe the term for the outback is land cruiser. Completely different car . Doesnt have cart springs for a Start.
Love when i get to take the country managers land cruiser ( doesnt happen often) it doesnt make you sea sick.
The op wants something decent on road. It aint a land rover and it sure as hell isnt a hilux.
Forrester would be top of my list tbh.
Must dash. Got to sell some stocks.
trail_ratI believe the term for the outback is land cruiser. Completely different car . Doesnt have cart springs for a Start.
This is a j70 landcruiser. This is what people in Africa, Australia and other territories where it's sold refer to as a landcruiser.
[img] 
[/img]
It does have leaf springs, and over the years has shared a lot mechanically with the Hilux. Just to edumacate you there.
Forrester would be top of my list tbh.
It would be near the top of my list too, maybe just behind an outback. So, back on topic yes?