[Closed] What if much of the world isn't completely mad and it is "you"?

Or it doesn't really matter what you do. Stuff will be much the same.

There are a LOT of people that would agree with every statement above. Is it me, am I the one not seeing the complete picture here?

Have a discussion with the people that would agree with every statement above and you will soon see what thinking (or lack of thinking) has led them to think like that.
You will then be better placed to know if you are mad or not.

Don't we all spend most of our lives trying to answer this question with our inner-monologue?

Questioning what we think and why we think it - I think I do. When it's an important subject I try to find the reason I think something, examine it for logic and sense and then wonder if that 'logic and sense' are just logic and sense because of my personal perspective.

Either way it's a tough question that can only be approached by sharing your thoughts with others and aggregating their opinion with your own before deciding if you are in fact right or not.

Good luck :o)

Bad analogy because.... Science - most of the revolt is just down to people not wanting to look at the facts and going down a rabbit hole of cause/causation. 2+2= 17200

A clearer analogy would be.

You work all the hours scrimp and save and put a nest egg asside for retirement.

You end up in the same care home as bob who hasn't worked a day in his life.

Who's the mad one?

*Also taking it away from being another covid thread where it's heading perrelously close to

Who was it who said "I thought they were mad, they thought I was mad, darn it if they didn't go and out vote me"

A clearer analogy would be.

You work all the hours scrimp and save and put a nest egg asside for retirement.

You end up in the same care home as bob who hasn’t worked a day in his life.

As analogies for ‘has the world gone mad’ - ^ That’s as ‘clear‘ as mud!

our inner-monologue?

You mean The Voices, right?

Perhaps the ultimate madness is never to at least question if I am mad?

I always try and make an argument for the 'other side' just to see if I can make it stack up.
Sometimes it's pretty confusing as you start to follow lines of reasoning (Climate change being a natural cycle caused by sun spots, etc lead me down some interesting paths), but mostly you end up better prepared to support the position you had in the first place.

I'm as daft as a box of frogs and i've made my peace with that.

Just live your own reality.

With your Brexit question we will have the answer soon enough. Already you can see that a lot of the objections people raised at the start have turned out to be quite on the money (vast armies of border inspectors, how Brexit will work with the Good Friday agreement and so-on). And other problems that no-one even anticipated such as the Kent exclusion zone.

So - this illuminates how to answer your questions. Make a testable hypothesis. If you can't test it, it's just a belief.

So mask wearing - how could we find out if it makes a difference?

Oh, and politicizing this (as Trump has deliberately done for example) means you can't have a rational debate. It's pretty irresponsible in my opinion. Even if he's right about masks, he's wrong about the way he's gone about it (and a whole lot more).

Don't worry about madness... or not.

Follow the evidence, you know like actual evidence not stories and lies you can easily drive a bus through, avoid the usual logical fallacies, and see where it leads you.

That may very well be a different place to 'the masses'.

I find this forum is generally quite good at poking holes in rubbish arguments.

I find this forum is generally quite good at poking holes in rubbish arguments.

It certainly is and that is largely because it is people who do ask the right questions rather than just listening to what someone like Farage tells them.

Or it doesn’t really matter what you do. Stuff will be much the same.

In a very German manner

Bottom line is that people work on emotion. They think things that they like thinking, because they crave dopamine. This is true of EVERYONE, you and I included. However, thinking of yourself as being wrong or having been wrong is a downer so they make up all sorts of mental leaps to justify whatever position they previously held, even if it were wrong. They just believe what they like believing.

So in the case of Brexit, they LIKE the idea that their country is powerful and important. The papers played to that, pitting the UK against its allies in the EU, because people buy papers that contain things that make them feel good. So they feel good about Brexit, and they cherry pick the articles that allow them to justify that because they don't want to be wrong.

Me, I place value in rational analysis and understanding, that's where I get my dopamine hit. Or rather one of the places I get it - another is feeling together with my allies. So naturally, that leads me to being pro Brexit for obvious reasons.

Likewise, some people don't want to think bad of the prime minister because it's a downer to think that we have a moron in charge. Unless you've already decided you don't like him, in which case complaining about him reduces the downer you feel from him being in charge.

It is you for sure, am me, and a lot of other people.
It’s the black and white thinking that is the problem I rekon- nhs sink or swim- what if they just managed to stay afloat-
maybe bojo (**** btw) is doing a ok job - not utterly shit but not amazing either.

We seem to make up our minds and then find the information to back up our views- easy with Covid because even similarly qualified scientist can’t agree.

@701arvn good to see clever sounding people validating the ideas I came up with as a student 🙂

I wonder if the film The Matrix wasn't actually a Hollywood film but actually a documentary and its real.

Why do you think I drink through this crazy straw? Not so mad now am I.

As analogies for ‘has the world gone mad’ – ^ That’s as ‘clear‘ as mud!

well yes -when you use partial quotes it tends to have that effect.

My point being hes correlating that people who are not following the science and making shit up might not be the mad ones.

that in its self is madness -

Try something tangible where there are two clear non fictional paths rather than a science based argument vs fictional arguement.

molgrips

Me, I place value in rational analysis and understanding, that’s where I get my dopamine hit. Or rather one of the places I get it – another is feeling together with my allies. So naturally, that leads me to being pro Brexit for obvious reasons.

Just wondering if the 5th from last word is the one you intended? Not judging if it is, just interested.

Perhaps BJ honestly is doing the best he can for the country in tackling Covid?

Just to highlight one point, Is Boris doing the best he can for the Country?

IMHO It's probably more nuanced than a simple Yes or No, but is he doing the best HE can do, the answer is probably yes. I very much doubt he's part of some global conspiracy to enslave us, or he's actively trying to kill as many people as possible to try to save the economy.

If you asked an ITU Doctor, they'd probably say no. Faced with an endless stream of suffering and death and with a lifetime of medical knowledge to hand their onus will be entirely on the real world medical issues. They may think the only course of action would be to enforce a very strict lockdown until we can test a vaccine at a normal pace or at least until Spring.

If you ask an Economist, they'd also say no, the constant change in plans and restrictions is causing businesses a lot of pain at the worst time for the UK. They will likely call for a pretty 'nasty' solution that accepts more deaths and less people being treated who potentially could survive covid otherwise to help the economy.

And the list goes on, a mental health expert will no doubt be focus on the high level of stress in the UK at the moment, Social Workers will want more financial support for people etc etc etc.

The Government and their advisers have to balance all that information to try to come up with a strategy that does the least harm, and we should never forget that there isn't a road map for this. This is a new and unique problem facing the world.

Is he doing a good job over-all? I think he's doing okay, but really Covid needs exceptional leadership and he's not that. His biggest failing seems to be he's lead by emotion and is unwilling to accept inconvenient projections until they happen. New Zealand and China are probably the standard on which all others will be judged. They both acted decisively and 'went hard'. The rest of the world including BJ said the cost of their actions was too high, but as the concept of costs have shifted, it seems theirs will be a very small one.

I think we'd doing about on-par with the rest of Europe, other countries have been hailed at being the 'gold standard' for Covid at various times, but in others they've suffered terribly. Belgium is doing about worst at the moment.

But, he's doing a lot better than any Twitter 'expert' or right-wing blow-hard who thinks it's all just "common sense" would do.

Yes, because most of us (here on STW) are probably in the minority on most issues when compared to the global population.

The main question is if it is possible to have one single worldview that is "right", and the more important question is whether it matters to the cold, dead, incomprehensively massive universe.

Also, can some please stop the simulator - I want to get off.

Is he doing a good job over-all?

No, absolutely not. Not even because of the quality of the decisions he's making or not making but because he's fundamentally failing in his primary role as the leader of the country.
The prime minister needs to look like he knows what he's doing and project that reassurance to the country and he's just not doing that.

Contrast his handling with that of Nicola Sturgeon. They're making fundamntally the same decisions at roughly the same time but, pretty much every day since March, Nicola Sturgeon has appeared on TV at lunchtime and consistently briefed the country on what is currently happening and has openly answered questions and provided reassurance that they're doing the best, based on the information to hand, which she has complete and comprehensive knowledge of because she'e read and digested her brief.
Boris appears only briefly and occasionally when he can't realistically send some other meat puppet to do it for him and always appears ill informed and provides vague and often contradictory information. Any hard information is usually leaked by a "government source" befeore he tells us anything.

Ignoring the politics or the actual decisions made...it's about reassurance and informing the public, projection of competence and appearing to be a leader.

Boris is utter shite at it. He's not doing a good job.

Perchy are you broken ? You don't normally talk as much sense and truths 🙂

Not broken.

Slightly cracked perhaps 😉

Seems that OP is engaging in a form of ‘auto-gaslighting’?

ie imagine if you lived in a country where the majority believed in a flat Earth.

You may then wish to ‘smooth’ and quiet your brain down by instead ‘choosing‘ to believe (say) that flat-earthers may be right after all, and that you’re the ‘mad’ one.

But flat-earthers assumedly number currently less per population than Brexiteers and Trumpists (there are of course overlaps and correlations) ... so you still feel on ‘safe’ ground. Not because the facts and evidence and science support your position, but because you don’t feel like ‘the odd one out’. Like the sore thumb.

*edit:

https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/unlearning-self-gaslighting

Molgrips

Bottom line is that people work on emotion. They think things that they like thinking, because they crave dopamine. This is true of EVERYONE, you and I included. However, thinking of yourself as being wrong or having been wrong is a downer so they make up all sorts of mental leaps to justify whatever position they previously held, even if it were wrong. They just believe what they like believing.

So in the case of Brexit, they LIKE the idea that their country is powerful and important. The papers played to that, pitting the UK against its allies in the EU, because people buy papers that contain things that make them feel good. So they feel good about Brexit, and they cherry pick the articles that allow them to justify that because they don’t want to be wrong.

But maybe that is sane?
If 52% of people think like that then maybe there is something in it?
All a bit matrix and is the steak real and does it really matter?

Go and watch the social dilemma, it really explains a lot of how people are fed information today, they (the media) don't care about its accuracy as long as it keeps you online and watching adverts.

Last week I was paying to park my car using an app. Foolish, yes, cause it costs me an extra 40p, but whatever, I did it. A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me. And that their control of me would only increase after vaccination for Covid because the vaccine has a nano tracking gel in it which means they will know my every thought and deed. And that we must fight to ensure Brexit happens before a vaccination program begins because the we can move beyond Covid. And that the bible foretold this. If that's sanity then I feel better off mad, and for the avoidance of doubt, it's not sanity. It's ridiculous, sometimes dangerous, nonsense. CSB!

It's all about perspective.

I may think that the people who voted for Boris are all mad but then most of them will think me mad for not voting for him. Same with little things too like I eat cereal dry as I don't like the way wet cereal feels in my mouth or that I will happily go out in the wet and ride my bikes round a trail. We all presume our view is the right one unless we actively go looking to challenge it and see if it stands up to scrutiny. The mad people are the ones who don't do that IMO.

Saying all that my default position is that I'm the mad one as I do so many things that aren't the social normal!

I've just been arguing on twitter about PCR tests, he's telling me all about how it's a deep fake, leftist conspiracy theory, Wikipedia is too,
I've spent the last 20 years doing PCRs and sequencing, and this guy who's obviously never picked up a pipette in his life apparently knows more than me.

How do we win against that?

There are a LOT of people that would agree with every statement above.

The thing you have to remember is,

The average person is a bit thick, and more than half of the population is of average intelligence or lower. Once you accept that you're surrounded by ****ing morons and moron apologists, the world becomes much easier to understand. It's a bit like driving / cycling on the road and defaulting to assuming that everyone else is out to kill you.

A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me.

....and yet he was driving in a car with a registration number, registered with the actual goverment whose database of both vehicles and owners is connected to a national network of ANPR cameras.

It’s all about perspective.

It's all about numbers. "Normal" is simply going with the majority. If ginger kids made up 90% of the population no-one would be picking on them at school; if most of us were born short-sighted then ol' Specless Two-Eyes would be getting a kicking.

I was raised to believe that being 'normal' was something to reject, that you should celebrate standing out and being different rather than following the herd. Which probably isn't normal. QED.

If 52% of people think like that then maybe there is something in it?

What kind of reasoning is that? A quick look through history will reveal that a lot of people have been wrong about a lot of things for a long time.

All a bit matrix and is the steak real and does it really matter?

It does matter in this case. Because we live in a society, and we have a moral obligation (if you believe in morals) to conduct ourselves in a way that does not harm others unnecessarily. So people need to think about their power trip/patriotic glory fantasy and work out if it's worth the risk, and what will happen if you're wrong. And how important is it for you to feel good about your country when other people are struggling to eat or earn a living.

….and yet he was driving in a car with a registration number, registered with the actual goverment whose database of both vehicles and owners is connected to a national network of ANPR cameras.

And think of all the collective DNA on those coins!

I would like to state for the record, that I have never, not even once, jerked off into a parking machine change collector.

Now, I think it's about time I logged into LinkedIn

I find this forum is generally quite good at poking holes in rubbish arguments.

It certainly is and that is largely because it is people who do ask the right questions

I fear that somewhere on a forum called something like RightWingBigotTrackworld someone will be saying exactly the same things.

A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me. And that their control of me would only increase after vaccination for Covid because the vaccine has a nano tracking gel in it which means they will know my every thought and deed. .... If that’s sanity then I feel better off mad,

He was doing the sensible thing (paying 40p less) for non-sensible reasons. Were you doing the non-sensible thing (paying 40p more) for sensible reasons?

I think that tells me something very profound, but I can't work out what.

Yes, having the "right" answer does not guarantee your chain of reasoning is/was also right.

But, conversely, having a sound chain of reasoning is a guarantee your answer is far more likely to be "right".

Don't start with the answer, get attached to it, and make up some false reasoning.

Nature doesn't care about emotions.

CAN WE HAVE THE REAL PERCHY BACK SOON?
as much as what he wrote makes perfect sense,it feels wrong
come back all is forgiven apart from being a QS of course

Everything I say always make sense.

To me at least.

A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me. And that their control of me would only increase after vaccination for Covid because the vaccine has a nano tracking gel in it which means they will know my every thought and deed. …. If that’s sanity then I feel better off mad,

I'm more disgusted that somewhere feels they can charge card users more than cash users in 2020.
Where was it? (you can tell us, everyone important already knows where you are as you paid by card)

(you can tell us, everyone important already knows where you are as you paid by card)

I know where the other guy was, 'coz I licked a pound coin.

told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me

….and yet he was driving in a car with a registration number, registered with the actual goverment whose database of both vehicles and owners is connected to a national network of ANPR cameras.

Ah so no wonder there are so many conspiracy theories

Just to clarify, by accepting to pay with a phone you just confirmed you don't give a toss about invasion of your privacy.

If 52% of people think like that then maybe there is something in it?

What kind of reasoning is that? A quick look through history will reveal that a lot of people have been wrong about a lot of things for a long time.

As I tell my son, do you want to prove you are correct or be happy.

All a bit matrix and is the steak real and does it really matter?

It does matter in this case. Because we live in a society, and we have a moral obligation (if you believe in morals) to conduct ourselves in a way that does not harm others unnecessarily. So people need to think about their power trip/patriotic glory fantasy and work out if it’s worth the risk, and what will happen if you’re wrong. And how important is it for you to feel good about your country when other people are struggling to eat or earn a living.

But of the 52% that voted for Brexit many said being poorer, not having food and breaking up the UK was a price worth paying. Others said it wouldn't happen ... they voted for a fantasy.
Many of the strongest Brexit votes were areas where people will be hit the hardest yet they still voted for it.

So the question really is do you want to be correct and people to starve and be homeless or be partially correct ?

I'd rather be wrong than correct.... I doubt I will be but hey ho... that's democracy.

But of the 52% that voted for Brexit many said being poorer, not having food and breaking up the UK was a price worth paying.

Many are saying it now but the numbers saying it at referendum time were vanishingly small. This is revisionism at it's finest, they insist they "knew what they were voting for" but the definition of this changes on a weekly basis.

Just to clarify, by accepting to pay with a phone you just confirmed you don’t give a toss about invasion of your privacy.

Is having someone know you were at a car park 'private' information? What if you passed someone you knew in the car park? I don't consider where I went on a Sunday to be private information for that reason.

As I tell my son, do you want to prove you are correct or be happy.

I don’t get how it’s a choice?

Son: The nice men who want to fix our country said that want to put our neighbours the Brunners on the train and give them a free shower? It seems wrong. I heard awful things.
Father: Yes son. I had my suspicions. Felix and Irma asked if they could hide in our cellar, but I’d prefer to be happy rather than proven correct. So we bought them some nice soap instead. Shall we wave them cheerybye?
Son: Are we happy now father?
Father: Yes, very happy, son.

Molgrips

Is having someone know you were at a car park ‘private’ information?

It's minor private information... by itself it's probably trivial

What if you passed someone you knew in the car park? I don’t consider where I went on a Sunday to be private information for that reason.

but if that same person wanted to see exactly what you bought, what internet you browsed... wouldn't you start to think it a bit worrysome? Perhaps on the way home you stop for fuel and buy a coffee... and again you don't mind....

I don’t get how it’s a choice?

Mum: You need to practice for your guitar lesson on Tuesday
Son: My guitar is on Monday
Mum: That's what I said
Son: No you said Tuesday
Mum: Don't tell me what I said
Son: but you said Tuesday
Mum: Right that's it no cycling this weekend

vs

Mum: You need to practice for your guitar lesson on Tuesday
Son: My guitar is on Monday
Mum: That's what I said
Son: OK

or
teacher: this is how sea stacks form
son: no its not
teacher: noone asked you shut up
son: but that's not how they form
..
homework: describe hoe sea stacks form

He took the smart option and wrote the incorrect answer that got marked correct

Sounds like a race to the bottom to me.

I took the red pill and the blue one; now I don't know who is mad.

homework: describe hoe sea stacks form

He took the smart option and wrote the incorrect answer that got marked correct

Are they formed with a hoe 😉 ?

Sorry - go on, give us the incorrect answer for a giggle.

Cougar

Many are saying it now but the numbers saying it at referendum time were vanishingly small. This is revisionism at it’s finest, they insist they “knew what they were voting for” but the definition of this changes on a weekly basis.

Sure but how is that different to say revisionism of a religion other than timescales?
Even timescales are probably not that different...I'm pretty sure in the weeks after the crucifixion for example stuff said to be fact changed weekly... then at larger intervals as time passed

It's not long ago people were being burned for heresy for things that are now accepted as fact.

Before that some got eaten by lions for being stubborn

Sure but how is that different to say revisionism of a religion other than timescales?

One is changing facts and the other a bunch of stories? Might as well argue over the origin story of Spider-Man at that rate.

I'm not really sure even what relevance that question has. If we answer "it's exactly the same" or "it's totally different," in either case is the next question not "so what?"

One is changing facts and the other a bunch of stories?

To you and me perhaps but others see them as facts.
I mean there is being stubborn and allowing you and your child to be ripped apart by wild animals..."in a sure and certain knowledge of a resurrection"

I'm pretty certain the NHS won't be seeing another £350M a week any time soon (until inflation makes that about Euro15) but I'm not so sure I'd let my son be ripped apart to prove the point.

Might as well argue over the origin story of Spider-Man at that rate.

Somewhere on t'interweb it's probably happening right now.

To you and me perhaps but others see them as facts.

The thing about facts, you see, is they are or they aren't. They do not require things like "belief," they are not at the whims of opinion. It doesn't matter what you or I may think. Even if you believe something really really hard it doesn't magically make it true, as much as the more gammony brexiters would like that to be the case.

As you said yourself, "I’m pretty sure in the weeks after the crucifixion for example stuff said to be fact changed weekly… then at larger intervals as time passed" so given that the very earliest scraps of documentation we have were written a century or two after the alleged event, how reliable would you hazard they are? Of course it could all be true, but it's a very long chalk from being a "fact."

Compare and contrast with the events of the last four years which every single poster and reader on this forum has lived through and has first-hand direct experience of.

I’m not so sure I’d let my son be ripped apart to prove the point.

Is this not a similar argument to saying you're not racist? Ie, it's not enough to not be racist, we should be striving to be anti-racist.

If you're not calling out bollocks then you're complicit in this fake news era, you become part of the problem. Lying on your homework is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things (I don't even know what a sea stack is so your kid is one up on me already) but at what point do you draw the line and make a stand? What if next week's homework is "how the holocaust never really happened"? Challenging people is how we, collectively, get smarter. I mean, this is literally how science works.

If it were me I'd be wanting to give the correct answer backed up with evidence and cited sources so they couldn't argue. But then as regular readers will know, I'm a contrary git. "Conform" be damned. Baaaa.

"and more than half of the population is of average intelligence or lower" - sorry to be pedantic, but shouldn't that be exactly half the population...?

You end up in the same care home as bob who hasn’t worked a day in his life.

Who’s the mad one?

The one with a poor grasp on how equitable carehome provision is 🙂

I think the coming years will take it's toll on people who are emotionally invested in being right on social media. It may slowly dawn on them, in reality, people aren't going to run everything by them first. Demanding answers to leading/closed questions of their framing won't yield the results they want.

The wannabe Brian Clough's are going to have a torrid time and should set aside plenty of time to win the battles!

I wonder if the film The Matrix wasn’t actually a Hollywood film but actually a documentary and its real.

Well, I recently saw an article on Flipboard which quite seriously posited the idea that there’s a ~50% chance that we’re living in a simulation...

How do we win against that?

We can’t, they’re the ones possessing the secret inside knowledge about How Things Work And Who Are The Ones In Control - actually it’s a confederation made up of alien lizard people and The Illuminati, with George Soros as a Dominic Cumming analog

The average person is a bit thick, and more than half of the population is of average intelligence

This needs unpacking. I'm of average intelligence so it's not going to be me to do it. Soz not soz.

“and more than half of the population is of average intelligence or lower” – sorry to be pedantic, but shouldn’t that be exactly half the population…?

No, you're excluding the median. You've got some average, some higher and some lower, so "average intelligence or lower" includes both the latter and the former.

Yes intelligence differs between people, as does the ability to question based on intelligence, think about whether something sounds right, do a bit of research/thinking yourself.

However, has the above dropped in the last 50 years or are people and governments just abusing it more?
People may not be mad, just not armed to deal with or dismiss what they are hearing/told probably mixed in with a bit of prejudice.

Cougar

in either case is the next question not “so what?”

The thing about facts, you see, is they are or they aren’t. They do not require things like “belief,” they are not at the whims of opinion. It doesn’t matter what you or I may think. Even if you believe something really really hard it doesn’t magically make it true, as much as the more gammony brexiters would like that to be the case.

Compare and contrast with the events of the last four years which every single poster and reader on this forum has lived through and has first-hand direct experience of.

It's a lot of perspective....
Take "control of our borders".
When the rest of Europe closed theirs we were inviting football fans from Spain on a piss-up in Manchester...
I'm sure that wasn't what the gammons imagined but yep "The UK stuck it to the man"... and that seems good enough for them.
I'm equally sure that when the Reesse-Moggs talk about control of the borders what they really mean is replacing jobs held by UK and Europeans with less expensive immigrants/migrants. Again, not what they imagined it to be ...

If you’re not calling out bollocks then you’re complicit in this fake news era, you become part of the problem. Lying on your homework is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things (I don’t even know what a sea stack is so your kid is one up on me already) but at what point do you draw the line and make a stand? What if next week’s homework is “how the holocaust never really happened”? Challenging people is how we, collectively, get smarter. I mean, this is literally how science works.

Well, how about history "We do not use BCE, BCE is used by people that don't believe in God"
He was truly shocked... he wanted to ask "so what if you're say Jewish" but he didn't.

If it were me I’d be wanting to give the correct answer backed up with evidence and cited sources so they couldn’t argue. But then as regular readers will know, I’m a contrary git. “Conform” be damned. Baaaa.

Me too but who's to say it makes us happier?

MR. HARRY BLACKITT: Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed
MRS. BLACKITT: What are we dear?
MR. BLACKITT: Protestant, and fiercely proud of it
MRS. BLACKITT: Hmm. Well, why do they have so many children?
MR. BLACKITT: Because... every time they have sexual intercourse, they have to have a baby
MRS. BLACKITT: But it's the same with us, Harry
MR. BLACKITT: What do you mean?
MRS. BLACKITT: Well, I mean, we've got two children, and we've had sexual intercourse twice
MR. BLACKITT: That's not the point. We could have it any time we wanted
MRS. BLACKITT: Really?
MR. BLACKITT: Oh, yes, and, what's more, because we don't believe in all that Papist claptrap, we can take precautions
MRS. BLACKITT: What, you mean... lock the door?
MR. BLACKITT: No, no. I mean, because we are members of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the Papacy in the mid- sixteenth century, we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue
MRS. BLACKITT: What d'you mean?
MR. BLACKITT: I could, if I wanted, have sexual intercourse with you,...
MRS. BLACKITT: Oh, yes, Harry
MR. BLACKITT: ...and, by wearing a rubber sheath over my old feller, I could insure... that, when I came off, you would not be impregnated
MRS. BLACKITT: Ooh!
MR. BLACKITT: That's what being a Protestant's all about. That's why it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen- seventeen, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas,... [sniff] ...and, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom! Oh, no! I can wear French Ticklers if I want
MRS. BLACKITT: You what?
MR. BLACKITT: French Ticklers. Black Mambos. Crocodile Ribs. Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress
MRS. BLACKITT: Have you got one?
MR. BLACKITT: Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, 'Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant.'
MRS. BLACKITT: Well, why don't you?
MR. BLACKITT: But they-- Well, they cannot, 'cause their church never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages and the domination of alien episcopal supremacy

The thing with "being in a car park not being private information" is that not quite directly how it works.

First it isn't governments using this information at the moment (although the strong suspicion is that some are gaming the system), it is commercial companies ie google and facebook.

So when you are placed in the car park, that information becomes part of the predictive model they are building of you, to keep you engaged on their products. If for example you happen to be placed at carparks outside cycle shops more that average, they can feed you content about cycling.

Now that sounds quite positive, but their algorithms show that negative content drives engagement more than positive, so a larger percentage of the content being fed to you will be negative than is being produced, a lot of positive content just will not be shown. More anti cycling rants, less epic wilderness backpacking trips.

The same principles will be applied to petreolheads, driving division and anger which is where subversive governments and populist politicians are taking advantage of the "free" system.

Now I love google maps etc as much as anyone and consider it an advantage in modern life, but I am uncomfortable about the information it gathers and how it could be potentially used. I would absolutely support legislation that sandboxes information for use within the restraints that it is gathered, ie google maps data stays within google maps and cannot be used for any other purposes, Or at least gave a reasonable subscription option that enforced that.

Well drafted sandbox laws could also benefit health research, raising public trust in anonymised mass data can be a good thing. It can be used for benefit but it should be controlled and not just left to the free market to decide,

poopscoop
What if all the things I think I’m right about,well, it turns out I’m just not.

Or maybe it's just that about half the population are below average intelligence and get their info from red-tops owned by right wing billionaires...

half the population are not reading the red tops, they are getting more targeted BS via Facebook and other social media sources.
It is not just lower intelligence - there are elements of racism, selfishness or just not having any empathy.

Lots of intelligent people are also being led down artificial information paths as well, dare I say that the arrogance and pride in thinking its just everyone else who is stupid and falls for it, actually makes you rather susceptible to misinformation. We all need to educate ourselves about how information is misused and protect ourselves from it.

@Molgrips
Sorry rushed answer I was going out riding (more on that later**) but ...

MSP

The thing with “being in a car park not being private information” is that not quite directly how it works.

Lots of intelligent people are also being led down artificial information paths as well, dare I say that the arrogance and pride in thinking its just everyone else who is stupid and falls for it, actually makes you rather susceptible to misinformation. We all need to educate ourselves about how information is misused and protect ourselves from it.

Now what I really wanted to say is that by agreeing to all this little "conveniences" you and I are saying it is OK to collect and use our data in any way possible.

MSP

Now that sounds quite positive, but their algorithms show that negative content drives engagement more than positive, so a larger percentage of the content being fed to you will be negative than is being produced, a lot of positive content just will not be shown. More anti cycling rants, less epic wilderness backpacking trips.

Now I love google maps etc as much as anyone and consider it an advantage in modern life, but I am uncomfortable about the information it gathers and how it could be potentially used.

So to paraphrase multiple ex-social media execs from "the Social Dilemma"
Who is paying ... ? Lets say advertisers or people who want to rig elections ... so what is the product? The answer (without getting even deeper) is WE are the product. We are what is being sold both our time/attention and ourselves as a revenue.

If you go even deeper.... then its suggested WE are not the actual product but changing our behaviour is the product. I've seen how its popular to blame racists and say "they were always racist" for example... but the reality is in many ways that making them racist was the product someone paid for.

So today I was at Hindhead and parked at the NT.
Technically I could have taken the membership but it's in the OH's car... so I go to pay....
No cash, No cards... phone a number or DL an app.
So with this thread in mind... I phone the number... to be told (sic) Please DL the app or the process of registration with this 3rd party company will take over 5 mins.

OK, I think... I'll DL it ... WTF

So... App store and DL on 1 bar to find out "This app will not work on your phone as it requires IOS something" ... my phone is on 12.4.8 anbd say's ""up to date" or last version for my iPhone 6 at least.

So call back and start registration on the phone to be told again to DL the app but I persist.
At exactly 5 mins my call is simply terminated....

So I see a ranger type guy talking to a lady...and amble over.... seems she has the exact same problem. Lucky he says "don't worry we won't be checking today"....

So WTF requires a later version of IOS than an iPhone6 will support? I mean they just need me to type a reg, stick a location code and pay? As a side note I wonder if the NT realise they have excluded people with "older" and "non really smart phones" (you know the sort we buy elderly relatives) and what's happening to all this extra info this "kind company" are collecting?

I think we ned to know 2 things

A. How the teacher thinks sea stacks are formed. And
2. What was the reason the old chap sans tin foil hat was parkimg in a public car park for 40p

Then we can judge his motives and madness unilaterally

So WTF requires a later version of IOS than an iPhone6 will support?

I know right? It won't work on my Commodore 64 either.

Could be all manner of reasons. Apple likely 'improved' an API this it uses, there's only so far an app can provide backwards support for and that's a six year old handset you've got there. Could be that it requires hardware that your phone doesn't contain, even.

It’s a lot of perspective….

That's the point I was making. A lot of this is about perception but that doesn't change facts, it just means they're wrong.

Well, how about history “We do not use BCE, BCE is used by people that don’t believe in God”
He was truly shocked… he wanted to ask “so what if you’re say Jewish” but he didn’t.

Honestly, (lockdown permitting) I'd be paying a visit to the school at this point. Your lad is being taught by a moron.

BCE has been in common use for centuries including, as you say, by Jewish scholars and its modern usage is intended to be inclusive. To say it's [exclusively] used by people who don't believe in god is flat out wrong. See my previous comment.

Me too but who’s to say it makes us happier?

No idea what makes you happier but I prefer thinking for myself.

Could be all manner of reasons. Apple likely ‘improved’ an API this it uses, there’s only so far an app can provide backwards support for and that’s a six year old handset you’ve got there.

Yep imagine if I didn't get new phones for no reason and I was still using my iPhone4... that still works perfectly well but can't get UK 4G (but could in America)

Could be that it requires hardware that your phone doesn’t contain, even.

Could be that it requires hardware that your phone doesn’t contain, even.

That would be even spookier ... not content with tracking everywhere I go to a few feet it requires "more" hardware to pay a parking charge?

Stop for a minute and think what is driving demand?
What exactly is it demands a pensioner needs to buy a new smartphone for every couple of years?

My mum (80) uses texts and sometimes email and has been known to use the Amazon App but she usually phones me and asks how to do it... that's about it. Usually tasking photos of the screen with her iPad to text me "how do I". she certainly couldn't tell you what iPhone or iPad she has..

I don't think my Mum is an atypical NT patron either... (or FC come to that, I pay for her annual parking at Gisburn Forest) judging by the people in the car park today. Other than a few yummy mummies in 4x4's and the three of us, Blake Sampson and the Ranger guy I didn't see anyone looked under 65. (and I'm not far off either and I'd guess the Ranger Guy also)

The idea I "need" a new phone whilst the old one still works is to me no different than I need a new bike because they changed the colourway or change my clothes because of whatever colour is in this autumn. It's endemic from white goods to cars to clothes... producing masses of waste and pollution.

No idea what makes you happier but I prefer thinking for myself.

Erm yep but that doesn't mean I need to think for a moron (actually self ignorant) person as well.

Your lad is being taught by a moron.

So it's 2 things ....
1) Belief
2) belief

It's very obviously incorrect factually... some Jews obviously believe in god and use BCE but fact doesn't matter because of reasons 1 and 2.

I’d be paying a visit to the school at this point.

Which would doubtless end with me calling someone a moron and being told I'm not respecting her religious beliefs.

Probably more to the point though to what end?
I'm sure my kid wasn't the only one thought "what a crock of shit" but ultimately its just one letter.

That’s the point I was making. A lot of this is about perception but that doesn’t change facts, it just means they’re wrong.

Yep but my experience (which is hard won) is you aren't going to change it but you can make yourself unhappier trying, especially when the person has 1 or 2.

Take the "control of borders" ... technically it's sort of correct but it's absolutely not what they believed it meant.

Take evolution and arguing for a missing link being well missing...

Take "flat earth" ... it's actually hilarious to even argue about the shape in 3 dimensions if you know maths and physics.

What's common about these 3? It doesn't matter how much EVIDENCE they made their mind up to be ignorant. Photo of earth from the moon "faked"... DNA "made by god".... "control of borders" (See Monty Python)

Ugh so why are (were) we letting in these Spanish football fans from a Covid epicentre?
Cos we can... noone can tell us (the UK) what to do....
Ugh but noone was telling us what to do....
The EU said we had to....
No they didn't
blah blah....

EU army ... bananas ..blah blah

"I've been mad for ****ing years, absolutely years, been
over the edge for yonks,

been working me buns off for bands...
I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...

very hard to explain why you're mad, even
if you're not mad..."