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Is there such thing as a hoover that can easily handle dust & small rubble such as building or workshop rubbish, brick dust, soot, sawdust etc?
I could use a cheap one if possible and was looking at the £40-50 wet/dry vacuums on Toolstation, Amazon etc which are marketed like this, however many people also seem to mention Henry and other dry only hoovers in this context.
I have a Henry, it's great, but fine dusts clog the bag very quickly resulting in almost immediate loss of power and needing to change the bag every 10 mins. Can't be good for the motor either.
The wet/dry types also seem to need bags on dry mode, will there be any difference?
Any recommendations?
I use a Titan from Screwfix, has lasted me well for exactly the purpose you describe. It couldn't quite cope with vacuuming up a lot of fine paint and plaster dust the other week but that is likely down to the excessive amount and the fine dust just gets everywhere. Took me ages to clean up the Titan itself afterwards. I bought a separate washable filter for it. You can use bags or not but advisable for dry I would expect. I use them for finer stuff for further filtration. It's a wet vac too but never tried it. For the cost it's great. If you put it through its paces with a lot of use I have no idea how long it could last. I did have a previous one that the switch started to play up. That was after 2 years use and a lot of building work. It did only cost me £40 ish so can't complain.
I don't think you'll get anything small and cheap than handles fine dust well. It is the nemesis of vacuum cleaners. Adding a dust separator to the inlet might help. There are some cheap ones around. I just run my numatic (bigger henry) bagless, with a cloth filter. It clogs pretty quickly but but its easy to take it out and bash it clean and saves on burning through bags.
Make (or buy if you're flush) a cyclone dust separator. Does a brilliant job of collecting sawdust etc. in the workshop, before it gets to the main filter and clogs it. Makes filters and vacuum efficiency last forever. Works best if it's static though, a PITA to drag around with the vacuum. Loads of plans and how tos on YouTube, Pintrest etc.
I have a Henry, it’s great, but fine dusts clog the bag very quickly resulting in almost immediate loss of power and needing to change the bag every 10 mins. Can’t be good for the motor either.
Theres a reason you can run them bagless...
Nilfisk, had mine for a long time, use it with bags, don't seem to get a loss of suction unless the pipe itself clogs. Has a secondary filter which is cleanable so can be used bagless. Used it on loads of building projects. Mine also has a plug for a power tool which switches the suction on when the power tool is on. Also use mine for wet duties including removing the last of the water and sludge from our ornamental pond.
Think this the more modern version of what I have.
https://www.toolstation.com/nilfisk-multi-ii-22t-wet-dry-vacuum-cleaner-with-power-take-off/p11564
Bit spendy but will last and work.
I really don't rate Henrys, horrible little machines with an undeserved reputation.
Make (or buy if you’re flush) a cyclone dust separator. Does a brilliant job of collecting sawdust etc. in the workshop, before it gets to the main filter and clogs it. Makes filters and vacuum efficiency last forever. Works best if it’s static though, a PITA to drag around with the vacuum. Loads of plans and how tos on YouTube, Pintrest etc.
I was going to suggest a cyclone, but the work the opposite way, they're really for getting the bulky heavy stuff out and won't work on the finest stuff. So you don't fill your bag up with wood shavings, but the finest sawdust still makes it through to the bag.
I’ve had a Nilfisk for several years now, it does duty connected to wood saws, planers and sanders, also used for brick dust, ashes and soot. I use genuine bags which last a long time as they’re large, the filter has never needed cleaning as the bag filters well. Power tools plugged into the inbuilt socket turn on the hoover automatically and if you plug the hose into the alternative hole it acts as a blower. Hope this helps.
Hijack - question for Nilfisk owners... the hose end has a large plastic bit permanently attached? How do you get on with that attached to something mobile like a sander? Currently using an old, weak-sucking Dyson with a similar plastic handle that is forever falling out of my tracksaw.
Power take-off seems to be 1200w, but my mitre saw is 1300w - hmmm.
I use a Triton dca300 dust/rubble separator connected to a Titan bagged hoover. The fine filter in the Triton was pretty good at stopping the fine stuff but it clogged up quickly so i took it out if the collector. I therefore fill up the Titan bag with the really fine debris over a long period of time rather than too quickly. A rare change of the air filter in the Titan occurs but an occasional clean and a blast with an air compressor keeps it pretty clean. I am not a heavy user of the items so this compromise works for me. Cost of the Triton was around £50 but i think I have easily saves that in the cost of bags in the Titan.
Ash vacuum?
Ha, I also have a Nilfisk one in the workshop that is pretty much in destructible. Use with integral filter rather than any sort of bag and it will pick up anything incluiding about 4 gallons of water! But. I did just get watching some Youtube over lunch and the algorith threw up this project whcih looks interesting and acheivable....
was going to suggest a cyclone, but the work the opposite way, they’re really for getting the bulky heavy stuff out and won’t work on the finest stuff.
they will work whatever way you want if you design them properly. From a former life I’ve got whole textbooks devoted to cyclone design… it’s a pretty complicated subject once you get into it. In this case you’d need a series of cyclones of various size to take out the big/med/small/micron particles effectively without having to resort to secondary HEPA filtration. (again, definition of what these size ranges are is a whole other brach of process engineering.)
Hmm, much choice. Will probably stick with the Henry for now I guess for my occasional use. Didn't think of trying without a bag, the filter's probably due for changing soon anyway so worth a try. Those cyclones are interesting, will bear in mind...
Theres a reason you can run them bagless…
But that puts you in exactly the same situation, except that instead of replacing the bag you need to wash out the big filter after 5 minutes.
except that instead of replacing the bag you need to wash out the big filter after 5 minutes.
Not my experience with general building and workshop dust. Take the filter out (and outside), bash it on a handy tree or wall a few times (while you are wearing a dust mask) and pop it back in. Not quite as good as new but good enough. This is with the big, flat, cloth filter that fits into a Henry and his friends.
they will work whatever way you want if you design them properly. From a former life I’ve got whole textbooks devoted to cyclone design… it’s a pretty complicated subject once you get into it. In this case you’d need a series of cyclones of various size to take out the big/med/small/micron particles effectively without having to resort to secondary HEPA filtration. (again, definition of what these size ranges are is a whole other brach of process engineering.)
Indeed, but not in a £20 plastic one designed to clamp to the top of an oil drum.
I've got a Festool ctl sys vacuum that I've run through a cyclone into a drum and I use it almost exclusively for sanding.
It dumps the dust into the drum no problem.
Occasionally I fill the bag up too when I've forgotten to empty it but otherwise it's great. Keeps the filters spotless and it totally sucks.
I suppose for really fine dust you want an M-class machine?
A colleague had a Bosch one with power take off and every time it was coming to a stop it would make a massive loud double thump, which was to clear its filters I believe.
Scared me to death first time I heard it. Thought it was the neighbours getting wound up about the noise 😂
if you're in the south I've got an old industrial type-h hoover I need to flog. Perfect for this kinda thing - I bought it when we were doing a lot of work on our old house and it worked great, but is a bit bulky for domestic use
the hose end has a large plastic bit permanently attached?
It's not permanently attached, it comes off and is replaced with a power tool adaptor which is a heavy duty rubber cone which will attach to most power tool dust outlets.
With any vac if you want to have a chance to deal with fine dust then you must use the cloth/fleece type bags,
They are readily available for most including the Henry , then the capacity for fine dust is dependent on the size of the bag and design of the vac , they cost a lot more and often people think the paper bags are standard or cheaper , they are frankly junk and rubble or hard waste blows a hole in them very easily , the expensive cloth/fleece type bags can be reused by adding a resealable clip or buying a reuseable bag . A cyclone is a game changer in a workshop where you can give it somewhere to live , or you pay for an integrated solution like the Festool that clip to the vac , I used a generic cyclone and 40l drum the savings in bags are very significant as K23 says if you use one that £2 fabric/fleece bag can last ages, it is what Dyson used but his USP was bagless which was the biggest headline and the clever bit was lost in practice.
I’ve got a Festool ctl sys vacuum
Do you know the only difference between the Festool 'M' class* and the 'L' class ?
The M class has an alarm that tells you when the bag is full.
They do the same job to the same level of filtration. The filters are the same part number. So you dont really need to spend an extra 200 quid on the M class version, just keep an eye on how full the bag is.
* For the uninitiated - The L class is sold as being for softwood, and the M for hardwood and MDF. It's a bit of a con really.
I've been using an Axminster fine dust extractor - the basic drum one does to 1/2 micron. It got high suction, just got to keep an eye on those pencils.