What have the Germa...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

[Closed] What have the Germans got against plastic?

43 Posts
27 Users
0 Reactions
141 Views
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Seriously, hotels, bars and now a brewary in dusseldorf! Why the cash only thing? Getting a little annoyed with my works credit card stting idle here.....


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:06 pm
Posts: 12329
Full Member
 

Fascinating.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:09 pm
Posts: 50252
Free Member
 

Trying to avoid card fees.

Was in Frankfurt a couple of weeks ago, and every cab was saying cash even though they have working card machines.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:10 pm
Posts: 6829
Full Member
 

I used to travel there regularly on business 20 years ago - it was a nightmare, no one took cards - I remember one evening after having been to the Italian pizza restaurant for 2 nights driving around the town - we still ended up in the Italian after about 2 hours...


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:14 pm
Posts: 4985
Full Member
 

You think they’d understand the true cost of processing cash.

unless of course not all of it is declared 😳


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:19 pm
Posts: 3488
Free Member
 

Interesting, short on detail, opinion piece about the drive by banks and governments (for their administrative ease and ability to track all transactions) to phase cash out and make it more difficult to obtain and hold. Will no doubt be aided by the iphone generation who won't question it as a new norm.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:27 pm
Posts: 3488
Free Member
Posts: 39449
Free Member
 

what is the true cost of cash IN GERMANY

vs what is the true cost of card fees for the retailer IN GERMANY .

(im aware of what they are in the uk but wonder if there is a significant difference to the numbers in germany that may push them this way)

A quick google reveals that

<i>In Germany we have 2 worlds….goes on to list a bunch of businesses in large, highly competitive markets and low-margin industries. The other world is businesses such as furniture stores, who want to earn money through their own financing schemes, and small businesses such as dry cleaning, gastronomy and taxis, where there is no online competition and tax-avoidance is common as a result of most payments being in cash. In these industries little has changed over the past 20 years.</i>

so tax avoidance is the main reason -

youll just have to take a hit on withdrawing cash on your business credit card and put it down to the true cost of doing businesss in Germany - much like i do when working up and down the west coast of Africa.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:33 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Germans have a long memory from the days of hyper inflation when between getting paid and getting to the shops the prices had risen.  They also don't like being in debt and value their privacy.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:34 pm
Posts: 1693
Free Member
 

I spent most of my career working for German companies so visited many times and had some good German friends and colleagues. When the Euro was launched, the banks had an amnesty to allow mattresses to be emptied of grey Deutschmarks and turned into Euros. The amount of money that appeared was phenomenal. Apparently the sales of luxury items such as boats and sportscars, paid for in cash, went through the roof prior to the change as well.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 8:46 pm
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Yeah so tax evasion then....

I'll chose how I exchange my privacy for my convenience

Anyway if it carries on at least I'll get rid of the last of my change paying the exact amount for dinner.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:13 pm
Posts: 39449
Free Member
 

"I’ll chose how I exchange my privacy for my convenience"

Not while your a guest in Germany you won't it seems. Not sure a mikewsmith hunger strike will force their hand into changing their ways for your convienance


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:18 pm
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Not while your a guest in Germany you won’t it seems. Not sure a mikewsmith hunger strike will force their hand into changing their ways for your convienance

Nah just going to look closer at the door on the way in.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:20 pm
Posts: 39449
Free Member
 

Find a Macdonald's they will sort you out.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:23 pm
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Find a Macdonald’s they will sort you out.

Yeah... will leave that out seen a few more who are progressing to the modern world, Stuttgart was better than up here in Dusseldorf

At this point I should also register a few crimes against Riesling!


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:29 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I'd be ****ed then. Never have any cash on me, buy everything from a pint of milk to a new bike in single cc transactions.


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:34 pm
Posts: 3488
Free Member
 

Dealing with the legacy population is so tiresome 😀


 
Posted : 21/10/2018 9:41 pm
Posts: 1101
Full Member
 

I have some friends in Berlin and they have also found that generally everyone uses cash. Their view was it's mainly a privacy thing. The Germans deeply distrust any bank or card payment provider who will be profiting from their choice of where and how they spend their money.

They have a point really!

Since a cashless society is kind of inevitable, their stance is a good one to have and for them (and maybe the EU) hopefully it should mean more regulation and less abuse of personal data.

Card companies are going to wield a lot of power and now is a pretty volatile time with everyone getting in on it (eg Google/Apple Pay, PayPal acquiring izettle)

From a business owner's perspective (speaking purely from a practical point of view) being cashless would be so much easier. It would remove so many manual processes and security concerns. Accepting cash is also not cheaper for the business than card payments, unless the business is very small or they just are sticking it in their pocket.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 7:41 am
Posts: 17106
Full Member
 

The German charges might be astronomical.

Recently someone invented a 4p fee on top of the percentage charge. I managed to get it down to 1p.

Some of the business credit cards have a 1.5 % fee. We have 0.685 for credit and 0.45 for debit. Then you have to rent the machine off them. We spend a fortune so that we can set up a loan from our customers from their bank.

Cash is so much cheaper than a credit card .


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 8:45 am
Posts: 91000
Free Member
 

I lived in Germany for 6 months in the early 2010s.  I opened a German bank account, and I used plastic more or less as normal.  However it was a different card - I think maybe a Maestro one - not a Visa Debit*.  So you might be being refused if you show them your debit card if it has Visa written on it - they might think it's a credit card.  Or even if they know it's not, the Visa Debit system might not work, in which case the card will default to working as a credit card (which Visa can do) which will incur higher costs.  I'm currently working in the Netherlands and this is the problem they have here.

* although I don't remember any issues using Visa debit either but that wasn't for long.  It was Bavaria so maybe it's different regionally.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 8:52 am
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

So you might be being refused if you show them your debit card if it has Visa written on it – they might think it’s a credit card.

Nope just a CASH! before you even get a card out


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 8:57 am
Posts: 0
Full Member
 

They also don’t like being in debt and value their privacy.

True! Toughest Data Privacy Laws in Europe.

What you should have done is take a handful of Deutsche Mark, or French Francs...

They love a bit of cash bartering.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 9:01 am
Posts: 8527
Free Member
 

Big hitter in having to pay for own food and drink shocker!


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 9:05 am
Posts: 6194
Full Member
 

It's not "cash only". They just have an aversion to credit cards and debt.

Can use debit card practically anywhere, and contactless card/smartphone payment in shedload more places than people probably realise. Even the turnstiles to get in to the autobahn bogs let you pay contactless rather than worry about ensuring you've always got a few coins in the car in case you're desperate.

I'd imagine they'd freak out if presented with Amex though.

 I think maybe a Maestro one – not a Visa Debit*

Maestro was the Eurocard? one along with Cirrus. VPay is the new Visa based debit thing that I think is chip only, no magstripe. Only time anywhere in EU/EEA including UK that I had an issue with that was ATMs that didn't know about VPay when it first came on the scene.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 9:45 am
 Drac
Posts: 50352
 

Big hitter in having to pay for own food and drink shocker!

There was no Bergrettung around.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 9:51 am
Posts: 12467
Full Member
 

Given how keen they are on cash, it's a bit annoying how thin on the ground cash machines are.  In Munich, at least.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:20 am
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

It’s not “cash only”. They just have an aversion to credit cards and debt.

Nope up to my 5th cash only place now, that included 2 hotels. And yes a 10km drive to the nearest cash machine for 1 of them. Compared to travelling in a lot of places its quite antiquated.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:25 am
Posts: 39449
Free Member
 

"And yes a 10km drive to the nearest cash machine for 1 of them"

thats a shame , if only the prepared and well advised traveler you are did as advised and say like carried some cash for such issues.

i recall doing the same when i worked in holland as my british cards were rarely accepted by their machines. - in the end i stopped trying. It wasnt a hardship to carry  euros really


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:30 am
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I did have cash... Just had to head up the valley to replenish the stocks. As I said just not expected for a modern Western country really.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:34 am
Posts: 6194
Full Member
 

Clearly Dusseldorf area is not advanced as Frankfurt area. I've only lived here for 14 years, and honestly can't remember the last place where only cash was accepted, but wherever it was, it probably wasn't Germany. Credit cards are often not usable, even for big purchases (but are a lot more usable than the past). Debit cards, "everywhere" accepts them (although I'll admit I won't buy 1 beer on a card - either pay coins or put it on the room bill and pay the lot on card).


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:39 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I was in Germany a few weeks ago, mainly in Cologne and Minden. No issues using cards at all, regardless of the size of the business. As part of a group of over 70 only one person had an issue and that was a Post Office pre paid card with 1500 euros on it. People would take the card but it kept getting declined. No one had a card refused and asked to pay cash.

The ATM's tend to be in the bank branches and outside business hours you just need to use a credit or debit card to gain access through the doors into a foyer where you can use the ATM's

Maybe the OP looks dodgy and that's why they want cash from him.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:50 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Probably something to do with the legacy of the Gestapo and the Stasi. The British take a carefree attitude to privacy because they are privileged enough to have lived in a country that hasn't gone dictatory since Cromwell.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 11:07 am
Posts: 17
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Maybe the OP looks dodgy and that’s why they want cash from him.

Yeah that must be it! And the rest of the people in the restaurant, and the food spot at the convention centre is turning down cards today, certainly does look like a little skimming and under reporting going on.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 11:40 am
Posts: 39449
Free Member
 

Get on it report it. 😉


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 11:47 am
 MSP
Posts: 15473
Free Member
 

Restaurants are largely cash businesses, I am surprised hotels are. IMO There are more local banks and cash machines in Germany than there are in the UK when getting out of the main city centres, although you may not realise that you have to walk into the bank to access them rather than being on an outside wall.

Germany does seem to be a couple of years behind the UK in adopting technology for "sales", but there is considerably more legislation to make sure that no one is left behind by the banking system, were as in the UK banking has been set up punish the poor.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 11:56 am
 Nico
Posts: 4
Free Member
 

 
Posted : 22/10/2018 1:46 pm
Posts: 16025
Free Member
 

From memory, there was one restaurant that was cash only, during a two week holiday in the Black Forest. The village had two ATMs.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 2:18 pm
Posts: 10474
Free Member
 

What have the Germans got against plastic?

Having seen Annuna Ucatis I'd say not a lot.e


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 2:48 pm
Posts: 5787
Full Member
 

<div class="bbp-reply-author">CaptainFlashheart
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Member</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">

Trying to avoid card fees.

Was in Frankfurt a couple of weeks ago, and every cab was saying cash even though they have working card machines

</div>

<div class="bbp-reply-content">

Not dissimilar to London cabbies then. And pretty much every single taxi driver in Canada.

What's odd is that Sweden and other north European countries are, in theory at least, going in the opposite direction

</div>


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 7:44 pm
Posts: 39449
Free Member
 

You mean you couldn't get an Uber ?

Cabbies in Aberdeen almost all have the machines for taking cards but much prefer cash.

I don't mind paying cash , makes it easier to balance the books.


 
Posted : 23/10/2018 9:08 am
Posts: 12467
Full Member
 

For balance and completeness, I was in Munich last week.  I didn't spend much, but the taxi from the airport took amex (with a sigh), the hotel took amex, the restaurant took amex, the beergarten at the lake said no cards for under 20 euros, but took visa debit contactless for 4.50, when I said it was that or nothing.  The train/untergrund machines took amex.


 
Posted : 23/10/2018 9:17 am
Posts: 3080
Full Member
 

I moved to contactless where possible when it came in, but earlier this year I applied for my first mortgage and had to send the lender statements detailing every purhcase I'd made. No problem getting a mortgage and I have nothing to hide, but I like the idea that there's no record of what I'm spending. If nothing else, it makes me feel a tiny bit like a secret agent every time I buy a coffee/beer/whatever.


 
Posted : 23/10/2018 3:12 pm
Posts: 4985
Full Member
 

Just back from Berlin, and came across quite a few places that were Nur Bargeld; some independent coffee shops and smaller shops, but also a couple of higher end restaurants - utter pain in the arse.

Oh and the insistance on taking the card from you to complete the contactless transaction rather then pass you over the terminal is a bit weird - made me wonder a couple of times if it was being skimmed/cloned.

Completely different to recent experiences in Italy, Spain, Austria and Portugal.


 
Posted : 18/11/2018 2:31 pm
Posts: 3588
Full Member
 

We had issues with cards following a breakdown last year. ADAC truck could only accept cash, and a main car dealer only took Eurocard or Cirrus. Mastercard, Visa and Visa debit were useless. (requiring two trips to the ATM as we never imagined the cc would be an issue in the garage).

We had plenty of cash, but it was mostly scandi money as we were just passing through Germany.


 
Posted : 18/11/2018 7:38 pm

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!