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Hey!
I've got a MK8 Golf R on order, but there's production issues at the moment. So, I've been looking around again.
Post-covid I'll be driving about 3 hours when I go to work.
I've got a Hyundai i30N at the moment, which just makes the drive to work enjoyable.
Anyway, I'm after something quick, around 4 seconds 0-60. Two seats is fine. But needs a OK size boot for two collies - never far with them, just 30 minutes max.
Doesn't need to fit bikes. Probably a max of £60k.
On the list at the moment is an AMG A45, and I've been looking at things like the M2, 3.0 Supra - but obviously boot space is an issue.
Anything else worth looking at? I feel like the Golf R is probably the sweet spot.
GR Yaris, i did sell mine though, fast just got boring, bought a Mazda 2 GT, half the power twice the fun a real gem of a car, the Skyactive engines are a marvel of engineering.
Audi S3 is pretty much the same car but nicer inside/slightly less power(irl, not on paper)
Or a second hand rs3 but you are next stage with them.
A hire car... fastest cars in the world
Golf R would probably be my choice.
But might be worth having a look at the Ford Focus RS. Or a Cupra Leon.
The BMW 128ti gets good reviews but not convinced about the looks.
My current setup is a warm hatch and a motorbike 🙂
335d Touring with a stage 1 remap
If it only needs to be slightly practical - at that budget Cayman offers very different driving experience to GolfR. The R felt to me like it would be too easy to go silly speeds in when I tried one.
Or a Beamer M140 or suchlike
Just read the bit about needing to fit dogs....Ah.
Two cars.
Dull comfortable and efficient for a 3hr commute (each way? Blimey. How often?) and 2nd hand impractical and scary for other times.
£60k is one hell of a budget, and I'd never conceive spending that much on a depreciating liability, even if I had the cash it would be £20k tops on something like a 4 yr old low miles Audi S3 and the rest would go on not having to go to work when I am old.
I'd assume finance rather than purchase.
"Fast", or "fast and fun"? Big difference!
Plenty of "fast" modern cars, but very few fast and fun ones.......
Frankly, i have no idea why you want a car that'll do 4 seconds to 60? The only reason i can think of is to brang to your mates how fast your car is?
I'd much rather have a slow car that feels fast and is fun to drive!
Not much boot space in S3 type cars. I had a 3 series tourer a few years ago, boot might be big enough for two collies but I’d go bigger. In true STW form, recommend what you’ve got, last year I got an Audi A6 All Road. Big, practical, comfortable, fast (not 4 seconds fast but fast enough for me). If 4 seconds is a real requirement then maybe look at an RS6, you could get a nice second hand one for £60k!
Used 911.
A friend is just getting one as the Elise isn't practical for them both going out with the dog.
Buying it from the sale of an M140 that just wasn't interesting enough.
Older cars may not have stats in their favour, but doesn't make them a bad drive.
We had a 944 for a while and it was a more involving drive, well built and capable than many newer things that outperformed it on paper.
Dull comfortable and efficient for a 3hr commute (each way? Blimey. How often
The drive can be pretty interesting. I've had dull, comfortable BMWs, r ally not my thing.
Frankly, i have no idea why you want a car that’ll do 4 seconds to 60? The only reason i can think of is to brang to your mates how fast your car is?
I appreciate decent acceleration out of turns. For me there's a big difference between 6 seconds and 4 seconds. And generally, that's a difference between classes - e.g Honda Type R, Focus RS, i30n, GTi, and then M2, RS3, new R, etc.
I did look at the Cayman, would be ideal, if it wasnt for the dogs. I do have Transit Sport too, so could just ditch the idea of dogs in the car - it's just handy, as we live in a remote valley.
£60k is one hell of a budget, and I’d never conceive spending that much on a depreciating liability
Bikes, cars and guitars. I'd rather enjoy my income now, than when I'm 70 or 80 and unable to do much. My dad died the year he was due to retire, so I'm not that fussed!
Gosh another gentle brag !
If you have to ask this question then you don’t deserve a fast car !
There’s a bunch of cars that satisfy your criteria.
My 4.4sec 175mph mile muncher cost much less (do you need to buy new?). I have owned the ex-Harry’s Garage XJR since last autumn. Stunning in every way ... now just plain BRG - no Orange lipstick in sight!
Oh, and such is the engineering excellence in the Jaguar, on the motorway I easily return 38mpg, last time fully laden with five adults and gears in a 300 mile run to Northumberland. Not bad for a 5 litre supercharged V8. It’s barely ticking-over at 70mph
Gosh another gentle brag !
If you have to ask this question then you don’t deserve a fast car !
Eh?
Are you referring to me asking for suggestions of a fast car? Or that I've a budget of up to £60k. Both are important to know what to suggest. Loads of folk earn way more money than me, I just have no kids and no commitments!
Plus, I'm in a good position as my dad left me some money when he passed away to spend on a nice car.
Anyway! Back to cars.
Jaguar - that lead me to Google the F-Type. Fits the brief pretty well. I know nothing about jags though, never even sat in one!
Nothing like a Jaguar Rickon, I’ve had four.
Just remember they are schizophrenic, absolutely sublime, calm and comfortable most of the time but can be (brutally) quick when you want them to be.
But might be worth having a look at the Ford Focus RS. Or a Cupra Leon.
The BMW 128ti gets good reviews but not convinced about the looks.
Ford stopped making the RS - too difficult to stack up with the direction on environment.
The Cupra... I want to get away from FWD, it's engaging, but I'm fed up of torque steer and axle tramp when I'm being lazy.
If you want a car with drama, get a V8!
Mustang 550, C63 coupe, Lexus v8 coupe.
I had a C63, was always an occasion to drive, even pootling round town was fun because of the noise.
If the dogs are not an absolute must have I would try test driving a Cayman, the 911 suggestion someone made also worth looking at.
Agree with the comments that fast doesn’t mean interesting - I would say the Porsche is so much more involving that many cars I’ve tried - enjoyable at 45 mph. If you looked at a Cayman the Gen2, 6 cylinder Cayman / CaymanS would be miles under your budget too so could get a nice bike too!
Left field option: Tesla Model 3 Performance? Only practical point letting it down is the saloon format for your dogs. 60 in 3.1s and £10 change from your £60k which will get you a few full charges on the right tariff!
Had mine a year now and still laugh like a lunatic when I bury the throttle. Silly quick.
Was just about to suggest a Tesla! Bonkers quick.
Have a look at the Carwow channel on YouTube. Mat Watson does great reviews of fast cars and also drag races including the Tesla against a Lamborghini.
I’ve had a fair few “fast cars”. 911 (993), TVR Chimera, AMG Mercedes C series and currently have a DB9. They’re not fun for 3 hour daily drives. I’ve always found them fun for weekends around nice country lanes. But not for sat in traffic.
I’m in the market for a new car with similar needs, but settling for nippy and comfortable. Looking at an Audi TT or a Mini Cooper S. 0-62 in about 7 seconds, but comfortable daily drivers.
Someone mentioned Mustang? For sh*ts and giggles how about a Bullitt Mustang? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102269501648?sort=relevance&model=MUSTANG&aggregatedTrim=Bullitt&postcode=mk454re&radius=1501&make=FORD&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&include-delivery-option=on&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1
Nothing really to offer but id discount the 3.0 supra, there's issues with the handling regarding bump steer and traction control issues.
Teslas are bonkers quick, but once the novelty wears off of making yourself feel sick in a straight line, you realise it’s hardly something you could call light, nimble or fun in the corners… Sports cars they are definitely not.
I’ve just sold a Golf R. Again. Great car, nice and (comparatively) light but it’s arguably too good and in use totally uninspiring to drive. Mine was a 7.5, and although I like the look of the 8 the touchscreen and capacitive buttons in my wife’s ID3 would almost certainly make me stay away. Plus, some of the plastics in the new one really are a bit cheap.
Worse than that though, are the Golf’s noisy top links/bushes which start at around six months old and never go away. I don’t think they changed in the 8. They drove me crazy, but some owners say they never hear them (they must never drive without music).
For your criteria, if I was buying tomorrow, I’d stick on a blindfold/disguise and buy a Civic Type R. It’s still by far the best ‘normal’ car I’ve driven. Realise it’s not sub 5 seconds 0-60 but I’m not really interested in drag races, more how it drives once moving.
always found them fun for weekends around nice country lanes. But not for sat in traffic.
I live in a remote place, and the drive to work is fairly country lane'ish. So generally interesting rather than sat in motorway traffic.
you looked at a Cayman the Gen2, 6 cylinder Cayman / CaymanS would be miles under your budget too so could get a nice bike too!
I've been through the Cayman builder a few times - as soon as you add a couple of options it gets pretty expensive!
The other part of the brief is it has to be a new car. I just like the convenience of warranty, being able to spec exactly what I want, and knowing it's not been redlined every drive.
For your criteria, if I was buying tomorrow, I’d stick on a blindfold/disguise and buy a Civic Type R. It’s still by far the best ‘normal’ car I’ve driven.
I was pretty close to putting down a deposit on one. But .. It's quite petty, but they sound awful. Like a vacuum cleaner. Driving for me is an experience, and how the car sounds is a part of that for me.
And.. that 3 pipe exhaust. I like the facelifted front end, but the back end looks like it should be on a 600hp car.
I’m picking up an M340i estate in just over a week. It’s taken about 5 weeks from spec to delivery. It seems to tick a lot of your boxes.
I was pretty close to putting down a deposit on one. But .. It’s quite petty, but they sound awful.
I don’t think they sound that bad inside the car, certainly more interesting a noise than the noise from my Golf, IMO. I had a 340i (F21 not G21^) for a year or so. That had a lovely, lovely noise and tonnes of lovely torque and handled pretty well - but again you wouldn’t call it fun to drive. At all.
I’m car-less as of last week and cycle most commutes/school runs but pretty sure I’m going to go on the list for a Yaris GR, and buy a used JCW 3 door in the meantime. I reckon about 200-250 bhp in a small light car is my sweet spot.
Fast and slightly practical? if SH is an option - 911 or BMW M6. If it has to be new...could you get Model S Long range for that?
I certainly wouldn't be dropping real money on a new ICE car these days.
Gr Yaris with full miltek exhaust for shits n' giggles and a shitbox estate of your choosing for dog duties (rs4?), should leave plenty of change for track days and servicing.
Not what you wanted but ive had a passenger seat run through the galloway hills in a GR Yaris and it was an absolute grin inducing loon of a car at semi sensible speeds.
A Mazda MX-5 will be fun and you probably won't care you're not going any faster.
Have you ever considered a motorbike? Much speed for little cash!
Delivery mileage pre-reg Alfa Stelvio Quadfoglio. Bang on budget, 0-60 in 4.0 and you could get dogs AND bikes in the back.
Plus it’s available now.
And it’s red. We all know red ones go faster.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102259454250
If it has to be new and you don't need to get dogs in, then either a bmw m2, alfa giulia quadrifoglio, or that gr yaris.
Are there any deals to be had on that minging looking new BMW m3 or m4 yet?
OP’s criteria doesn’t compute for me for a number of reasons.
With a budget of £60k I would be getting a Caterham 420r and using the rest to buy/lease a practical 2ltr estate, because at no point will/should OP be using 4.0 sec 0-60 with dogs in the car.
Besides the new Golf R appears to be getting bad ish reviews, and still a bit dull to drive. Speed is not everything
because at no point will/should OP be using 4.0 sec 0-60 with dogs in the car.
Perhaps when he has the dogs in the car he won't use all of the acceleration!
Perhaps when he has the dogs in the car he won’t use all of the acceleration!
That’s my point, the fact is that cars that can get dogs in to start with are a bit dull to drive
Some like a BMW 340i Touring is incredibly rapid, but ultimately quite dull to drive in the scheme of things, certainly if 0-60 in 6 seconds doesn’t cut it.
Besides the new Golf R appears to be getting bad ish reviews, and still a bit dull to drive.
What reviews have you seen with that? Pretty much everything I've seen has said it's a big step up performance wise. There's a few comments on the interior being a little low rent in the back, and low down plastics.
Ive seen most reviews, including the foreign language ones, and it's all positive. I think Rory didn't like it much, because of the touch buttons. And that's totally fair.
Perhaps when he has the dogs in the car he won’t use all of the acceleration!
That’s my point, the fact is that cars that can get dogs in to start with are a bit dull to drive
Some like a BMW 340i Touring is incredibly rapid, but ultimately quite dull to drive in the scheme of things, certainly if 0-60 in 6 seconds doesn’t cut it.
I mean, sure. I don't redline it or floor my car when the dogs are in it. Much like I don't do 70 going through a 20.
Is BMW 340 is boring and heavy.
Caterham? No thanks. Not my style. I couldn't imagine driving to work in one either.
0-60 is mainly irrelevant
30 to 70 is probably a better marker.
Do you want a revvy thing or a big load of torque
Also, this thread definitely needs photos.
^ I'm sure this is what some folk like. But not for me.
My benchmark on fun, but practical.
I should say, it needs to be practical as both me and my wife ride. And if one takes the van for riding, then the other will need a vehicle to take the dogs.
Estates are out, I had a 3 series BMW estate. Capable. Comfortable. Uninteresting.
0-60 is mainly irrelevant
30 to 70 is probably a better marker.
Do you want a revvy thing or a big load of torque
Decent power throughout the range please ☺️
Country roads, probably 15-60.
Get a track car if you want fast and something practical to do your commute and dog duties. Less chance of killing someone this way, like a cyclist as you accelerate in 4 seconds 0-60 out of a corner on a public road.
The RS6 Plus-One linked to earlier.
Get a track car if you want fast and something practical to do your commute and dog duties. Less chance of killing someone this way, like a cyclist as you accelerate in 4 seconds 0-60 out of a corner on a public road.
Thanks. I'm a very considerate driver. Always loads of space for cyclists and horses. Regardless of what I drive. Having lost a mate who was hit by a car, I'm more than aware of other road users.
Alfa suggestions from earlier.
And then a perfectly adequate fast normal car for day to day.
Edit - dam just realised that none of this incredibly good cars do 0-60 in 4 seconds, they must be crap 😂
128ti that Quagmire suggested
GR Yaris - that few have suggested. They're on pre-order for 2022 as they're so popular. The Lichfield version looks decent, the interior looks a bit drab, and I'd have thought (though happy to be found wrong!) that it isn't an ideal daily driver.
I’d have thought (though happy to be found wrong!) that it isn’t an ideal daily driver.
I thought it was as it’s quiet car, and complient. The boot probably won’t get 2 dogs in as it’s very sloped
0-60 in greater than 5 seconds, but certainly more ackin to the type of handling you appear to like ie completely planted, very little oversteer and more understeer
completely planted, very little oversteer
Hey the Mk8 Golf has torque vectoring, and a drift mode! 🙂
The Yaris boot does look a little small, fine for one of the pooches - but I think both would be a bit squished!
Feel you’ve kind of already boxed yourself into a corner and now have s choice of
Golf R
Audi s3
Audi rs3
BMW m something m2??
Mercedes amg A series ??
Just get the one you can get quickest in the spec you want. What colour are you going for? That’s the important bit.
What colour are you going for? That’s the important bit.
The Golf R only has Black, White or Blue. So, there's only actually one colour choice.
Audi S3..... a bit dull to drive, the RS3 is a different story - but you can't buy a new one at the moment 🙁
M2 Comp, again not being made new at the moment.
AMG A45 is a good shout.
From sensible to..
Ahhhh my retinas!
Feel you’ve kind of already boxed yourself into a corner
Yeah, that's why I ended up asking on here for inspiration!
Buying new is such a luxury as these cars lose 70% of their value in three years. Great if you have an income to not worry about it, but if it was me, I’d spend £30k on an RS4 and invest the rest in Bitcoin.
You’re guaranteed to lose £30k on a new car and could lose a lot on Bitcoin, but you could have enough to buy a house if things continue like they are.
That yellow merc looks fun, mercs are always in boring colours.
Only other brands that will have that kind of acceleration are Alfa and jag, don’t think the later makes a hot hatch.
Won’t the golf r be exactly the same as a s3, is it not the same car in different body?
Which ever VAG car you go for they are always hugely competent fast and slightly dull.
Look at new Seat Cupra too if you value speed over fun
A mate has an r 7.5 and to be honest it only feels like fun on b roads when you are doing speeds way higher than is clever.
Having been in that and my mazda 3 which has a lovely chassis feel i would rather have the mazda but would like more power.
Unless you are doing track days these cars are far more capable than the roads allow a you will need to be doing 80-90 on b roads before the car starts to feel like it is anywhere near the limit. At that speed good luck....
I want a nomad personally and will keep my mazda for sensible options
You’re guaranteed to lose £30k on a new car
In 3 years my i30N has lost £5k from me driving it off the forecourt.
Bitcoin, but you could have enough to buy a house if things continue like they are.
I also invest. This is about buying a car.
Which ever VAG car you go for they are always hugely competent fast and slightly dull.
A mate has an r 7.5 and to be honest it only feels like fun on b roads when you are doing speeds way higher than is clever.
Ah, some VAG bashing. I'll have a look at that Harry's review - cheers buddy. That'll be the first one I've seen that doesn't have the reviewer grinning when driving the mk8.
Oh, and Volkswizard. He hates the mk8 R. But he bought a Clubsport.
The telling reviews are the ones by owners of the 7/7.5. I do agree though, the 7 r is pretty competently boring!
My Leon Cupra 4drive is basically a Mk7.5 Golf R in disguise....not sure about availability of the new model but it's very practical, very rapid and surprisingly economical when needed. The standard adjustable dampers are brilliant.
A mate who drives fast pursuit cars reckons the M140i/340i (which was my alternative) are too much of a liability in the wet without an aftermarket LSD.
I didn't overly enjoy my Cupra initially but I've got used to the paddle gearshift which improves things massively. And disabled the awful soundaktor!
I'm enjoying my Cupra more and more as it loosens up, but suspect I'll get a smaller hot hatch next, to run alongside a van, maybe i30N or similar.
That Harry's review of the Golf R... He likes it, he talks about responsiveness, chassis dynamics etc. He says the GTi is pointless with this mark. The only thing he didn't like was the touchscreens.
I don't see that as a bad review.
Obviously its not a Caterham, but it'll be better when it's cold outside and you wanna stay toasty warm. 😆
A mate who drives fast pursuit cars reckons the M140i/340i
My mate with a m240i said the same, it's terrifying in the wet, just can't get the power down at all.
Yup, What I like is the Cupra is quite stealthy and an amazingly capable point-to-point wagon on windy A & B roads, 99% of my driving. Yes, I'd love to have another 6cyl soundtrack (still keeping my 325i for that) with possibly more performance, but it wouldn't be any quicker in the real world.
Am not bashing the golf, just for me it is too competent to make it fun at road speeds that are not going to get you in deep shit.
Same applies to loads of others such as the cupra etc.
DRIFFFFFFRRRRTTTTT MOOOOODDDDDDE.
lol. I totally get what you mean. The i30N is a petty perfect car for UK B roads. The most power you'd want through the front wheels, and a decent slip diff.
It used to be a bargain too, £25k you could get one new for. The new one is now £35k.
And all you get for the £10k extra over the old one is more plastic on the bumper, sightly different dials, and a front end that looks like a Seat Ibiza. Weird.
don’t see that as a bad review.
No definitely not a bad review, but at 15 mins he says the steering just weights up in a bend, that doesn’t make for an exciting car because in essence you are guessing what grip you are going to get. He then goes on to say it’s a bit dull at normal speeds ie any speed you can drive it on a road.
People who tend to like VAG cars like their kicks from straight line speed and a car that drives for them in a dull predictable way. It’s not VAG bashing just different things for different people
Hmm. I'm assuming that's the progressive steering. Don't lots of cars have that as standard? So it's light around town, and then heavier when you're pushing on a bit?
I’ve not driven the Golf R so can’t comment, but no, it’s a lack of feel, precision, dynamics, call it what you like.
My BMW 330 does it. You turn in but the steering doesn’t have enough feeling so you have to wait for the car to settle in to the bend for it to tell you what it’s doing ie whether it’s going to grip or not, now 99% of the time mega grippy moderns cars will grip but they just don’t communicate that they will.
Get in a car that does communicate through the steering and the driving experience is night and day different (like any of those cars I picture above) . If you are used to a modern car with avg handling you could argue that getting in a car with good turn in steering makes it nervous and too sensitive.
Again each to their own and to some degree what you are used to
I'd be looking at something with a 3.0i diesel, mainly based on they've the go of a petrol but using far, far less fuel than an equivalently driven petrol car. My 435d did 40mpg no matter how hard I drove it (90 mile round-trip commute, pre Covid), whereas a friend with a 340i barely got half that. No point just pi55ing money away for the sake of it - I've also had V8's so paid for this first hand.
Although if you want the ability to really 'make progress' on your commute, you need a motorbike. Nothing comes close, especially in the ability to overtake literally anywhere.
And maybe with a motorbike the 3 hour commute becomes 2 hours? I use to get from outer Buckinghamshire into Westminster in under an hour.
And when you want to take the dogs, you've the Transit.
Remember though, every year spent paying for overly expensive cars is one less year you could be retired.
it only feels like fun on b roads when you are doing speeds way higher than is clever.
Isn't that the case for any car? Modern cars are all so competent that within the speed limits it is not really that easy to get any enjoyment.
If you ignore the speed limits, slide the car around etc then fair enough you will have more fun. I used to drive like that when I was 20 on a quiet early Sunday morning 30 years ago but now see it as very irresponsible due to increased traffic and having grown up.
Agreed, to me a fun car is where you can feel the road and actually get to respond to it rather than feeling like the car is doing everything and not even trying.
Poor English and phrasing, but i think i would prefer something that has a great chassis and grip and maybe lower power so you actually have to work at keeping the car going well rather than a huge number of drivers in overpowered cars who brake stupidly hard for corners then have to bury the accelerator to get back up to speed, rather than trying to carry speed round corners
Volvo V70R, tune the tits off it.
2nd hand Nissan GTR.
Rapid, reasonably practical. Only downside is it might be a bit bulky for really tight B-roads