[Closed] what exactly is dr who's tardis?

Its a phone box

police box

It's dimensionally transcendental, don't you know?

Oh, and it's not a very well thought out bit of physics. Not like the Millennium Falcon, which looks like it could really work.

"It's like the tardis in here...just really small.."

DrP

Not like the Millennium Falcon, which looks like it could really work

Really? .5 past light speed? What kind of physics are you talking about?

The Tardis as a hyperspace gateway would be reasonable. An Einstein-Rosen bridge perhaps.

Anyway in the show, the tardis itself is a series of rooms in some part of hyperspace, with a moveable door. The tardis doesn't go anywhere, it's just the door that can move around in time and space. Or more accurately, the outside of the door move around, the inside is always in the tardis obviously.

What kind of physics are you talking about?

The cool Star Wars Kind.

Have you seen the size of the engine on that thing? It spurts out massive blue light... so in my book of physics that's much faster than your measly .5 past light speed.

I should add at this point that I am not a physicist.

Camo, .5 past light speed is a quote from the film. She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts.

Dammit molgrips, your knowledge trumps my ignorance.

* goes to a quiet place and whoosh-whoosh-whooshes with fake lightsabre *

Given that according to its pilot it also "made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs," and given that a parsec is a unit of distance rather than time, I think we can file anything Han Solo claims about his ship under "Posturing Bollocks."

I need a comparable.

How long does your ordinary bog standard Kessel Run take, Cougar?

Han is a braggart, okay, but I don't think he'd lie about something as important as that, not when lives are at stake and Imperial soldiers are all around.

Space magic. Next.

😆

molgrips - Member
The tardis doesn't go anywhere, it's just the door that can move around in time and space. Or more accurately, the outside of the door move around, the inside is always in the tardis obviously.

They must get ****ing dizzy in there.

Given that according to its pilot it also "made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs," and given that a parsec is a unit of distance rather than time, I think we can file anything Han Solo claims about his ship under "Posturing Bollocks."

I still maintain that whatever the Kessel run is, distance measurement could be part of how results are compared. Maybe you have to get to within a certain distance of some goal in a certain time?

What the Tardis really needs is an infinite improbability drive.

Methinks the Kessel Run is a widely used (in space jockey land) test involving the ship accelerating from stationary to VERY FAST and back down to stationary in the least distance. Top Gear have done this with supercars ( 0 - 100mph - 0). Given that the Falcon made this run in a distance of less than 40 light years it must be pretty nippy off the blocks. Depending on the actual value of VERY FAST of course.

[i]What the Tardis really needs is an infinite improbability drive[/i]

Or a Flux Capacitor

There you go, see? Good suggestion tonto.

I still maintain that whatever the Kessel run is, distance measurement could be part of how results are compared. Maybe you have to get to within a certain distance of some goal in a certain time?

Sure. But then, you haven't "made" the Kessel Run, you've come within 12 parsecs of making it. Perhaps it's some sort of 'find the optimum route' challenge? But that seems to be an odd response to "is it fast?"

We could also speculate that in this galaxy (far, far away) the word "parsec" might have a totally different meaning; he might as well have said centons or microts. Or we could break the fourth wall for the most likely explanation, which is that the script-writers are idiots. Personally, I come down in the "Solo is full of it" camp.

How long does your ordinary bog standard Kessel Run take, Cougar?

I ninja edited possibly whilst you were posting this, sorry.

It stands for

[b]T[/b]ime
[b]A[/b]nd
[b]R[/b]elative
[b]D[/b]imensions
[b]I[/b]n
[b]S[/b]pace

Methinks the Kessel Run is a widely used (in space jockey land) test involving the ship accelerating from stationary to VERY FAST and back down to stationary in the least distance. Top Gear have done this with supercars ( 0 - 100mph - 0). Given that the Falcon made this run in a distance of less than 40 light years it must be pretty nippy off the blocks. Depending on the actual value of VERY FAST of course.

I like your thinking. But that would be measuring acceleration; not really all that important relatively when you're weighing up the performance of an escape vehicle. Top speed is what you need there.

I'm thinking maybe the Kessel run would be picking up several given items from different planets and smuggling them to Kessel. Whoever or whatever that is. The Empire would obviously be interested in tax evasion and racketeering and would be clamping down on this, so the Kessel run would necessitate evading their Star Destroyers and the brag would be that you'd covered less distance rather than done it in less time.

[i]The parsec (symbol: pc) is a unit of length used in astronomy. It is about 3.26 light-years, which is about 30.9 trillion (3.09×1013) kilometres or about 19.2 trillion (1.92×1013) miles.
[/i]

So lets say Han was bragging or the speedo on the Falcon is out a big (it is a bit of a wreck, that ship) and he did it in a round 12 parsecs. So that's 230.4 trillion miles.
Which is a fair old trot really.

The thing is, I know for a fact that at least one of you is in a relationship with an actual woman 🙂

Perhaps it's some sort of 'find the optimum route' challenge? But that seems to be an odd response to "is it fast?"

Well. Distance and time are tightly coupled at speeds approaching light speed, we have no idea what happens at .5 past light speed do we?

But that would be measuring acceleration; not really all that important relatively when you're weighing up the performance of an escape vehicle. Top speed is what you need there

No no no. The ship makes a "jump" to lightspeed doesn't it? So it doesn't accelerate smoothly through it, which is obviously impossible. So acceleration has nothing to do with trans light speed travel.

Amateurs... sigh

I stand corrected, but I was close!

[url= http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run ]The Kessel Run was an 18-parsec route used by smugglers to move glitterstim spice from Kessel to an area south of the Si'Klaata Cluster without getting caught by the Imperial ships that were guarding the movement of spice from Kessel's mines.[/url]

The idea being the parsecs thing is that to skirt large astronomical bodies you have to be doing quite some speed.

Kessel has '[url= http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Maw ]The Maw'[/url] "next" to it so getting to Kessel requires expert navigation in order to plot the quickest/shortest route.

EDIT: so my multiple, Page 3, girlfriends told me

...is a unit of distance rather than time,

Whilst it may be appropriate to differentiate the two when using non-relativistic classical mechanics, Han understands that for Millenium Falcon speeds, it's easier to think in terms of the space-time continuum.

[img] [/img]

whatever his speedo says it can do, we have to consider that on a ship that old the cable will have stretched and therefore could be reading up to 10% over. So when he said he could do the Kessel run in less than 12 Parsecs instead of the standard 18, I reckon he'd be closer to 13.

Which is still impressive, nonetheless.

ah but the tardis would beat the millenium falcon,as it would instantly reach it's destination 😉 the millenium falcon is like a fiat 500 in comparison 😆

My wifes got a 500, and it's surprisingly spacious on the inside compared to it's external appearance.

that's ****ed your analogy, hasn't it?

😆 😳

ah but the tardis would beat the millenium falcon,as it would instantly reach it's destination

The flaw in that logic is that the Falcon's destination is considerably more likely to be the one you intended to go to.

From the Wookiepedia (he he) link above,

Han means nothing other than impressing Obi-Wan and Luke with pure boasting. Indeed, even in the final version of the script, the parentheses attached to Han's line state that he is "obviously lying."

Well. Distance and time are tightly coupled at speeds approaching light speed, we have no idea what happens at .5 past light speed do we?

...

No no no. The ship makes a "jump" to lightspeed doesn't it? So it doesn't accelerate smoothly through it, which is obviously impossible. So acceleration has nothing to do with trans light speed travel.

We either know or we don't, no? You can't cherry-pick one and hand-wave the other.

I envisage FTL drives to be like a really high-blow turbo. I don't remember offhand, did anything ever 'jump' to light speed from a standing start in the Star Wars universe

whatever his speedo says it can do, we have to consider that on a ship that old the cable will have stretched and therefore could be reading up to 10% over. So when he said he could do the Kessel run in less than 12 Parsecs instead of the standard 18, I reckon he'd be closer to 13.

Tsk. The cable turns, not stretches, don't you know nuffink?

I think we need to ask ORAC!

[img] [/img]

Anyone looked at the Strava CR for it?

I envisage FTL drives to be like a really high-blow turbo. I don't remember offhand, did anything ever 'jump' to light speed from a standing start in the Star Wars universe

I believe there was a bit of a bang when R2D2 removed the software block the Empire put in whilst the Falcon was impounded in Cloud City. That was certainly a jump to light speed.

What the Tardis really needs is an infinite improbability drive

Or a Flux Capacitor

Or a warp drive if it really wants to go.
Whilst it would take the Millenium Falcon 2.8 years to pop over to Proxima Centauri for tea and biscuits, at a leisurely Warp 3 the Enterprise would be there and back in under 3 months, with plenty of time for Capt Kirk to play hanky panky with some exotic alien or another.

You all need to get out in the fresh air right now.

How quickly?

Are you assuming .5 past light speed means 1.5x light speed?

Any comparisons between the Tardis and the Millennium Falcon are fallacious and, frankly, the product of superficial thought patterns. It's like comparing Kylie to Dannii (the thinking man's Minogue). The answer's obvious, but some out there can't see it.

So, here goes...

The Tardis is a wooden blue box that clearly was created by an apprentice in the props department. It hasn't even got an exhaust pipe, let alone a massive blue propulson light-thingy.

The Millennium Falcon, on the other hand, is a full-out, in your face badass spaceship. Plus, Han Solo's at the helm, which is a proper sign of quality.

You know I'm right.

From my limited understanding (gleaned from reading this thread), it sounds like The Kessel Run is Challenge Anneka, butt in space...

Does Anneka do Butt in Space?

Is that a show I haven't seen? What channel's it on?

* grabs TV guide and pants *

Falcon is a spaceship, tardis is not a spaceship. It's an altogether more sophisticated concept. Quite clever for a 60s early evening tv series.

Quite clever for a 60s early evening tv series.

Here's how that thought pattern went:

Creator guy: we need a new spaceship idea
Apprentice props guy: I hear you
Creator guy: Space ships have been done, right? A time machine's interesting, but the problem is going forward in time from the same place is probably going to land your time machine in the fruit and veg aisle in the Wadebridge Asda.
Apprentice guy: I hear that.
Creator guy: But nobody's done a two-in-one, am I right?
Apprentice guy: Look, dude, all I got's some two by four, a sign that says 'POLICE BOX' and a wagonload of blue paint. So what's it going to be?
Creator guy: Uh, a police box.
Apprentice guy: Amen to that.

It's like Einstein-light. Reductionist in its magnificence.

Or the product of a show with no cash and - if I can speak frankly - some fairly half-ass villains.

It's not a Police Box it's... er... a spaceship in disguise... it's just broken so it's always a Police Box. See.

some fairly half-ass villains

Can't see the daleks getting beaten by a bunch of teddy bears with catapults.

Dude, Ewoks live in trees.

And anyway, let's not pitt the best Doctor Who villain against the worst Star Wars (non) villain.

Who's up for a Dalek vs. Vader beat down?

That's going to be a short battle, and the scrap metal dealers get first dibs on Dalek mash.

Who's up for a Dalek vs. Vader beat down?

Nah, gotta be Vader vs The Master!

Tsk. The cable turns, not stretches, don't you know nuffink?

OK, I'm wrong on that point, so maybe the Tardis doesn't get a 10% accuracy gimme for speeding offences.

Oooh! I just thought of another get out though. Given that it travels in time and space, and therefore could theoretically be everywhere all at the same time (the flipside to the same place at different times) - that's going to make it pretty bloody tough for the Intergalactic traffic police to pin down the exact grid reference. I can imagine the scene in court ' But Your Honour, the paperwork states i was doing 0.5 past light speed on the Proxima centauri bypass, whereas the grid reference you gave me is for a field in Cumbria?'

Plywood (I'm all growed up with a wife and kids).

Lol 🙂

Funny, but let me re-iterate, the tardis does NOT TRAVEL ANYWHERE.

It would be palpetine vs the master surely?

Anyway no on has metioned a TARDIS is a type of crafte the DR's TARDIS is broken and [edit] the outside of the door [/edit] doesn't go anywhere in particular so whilst yes the a TARDIS could in theory whupp Han Solo's Millennium Falcon the Dr's probably couldn't as [edit]his outside of his door [/edit] would end up in the wrong place.

Plus the fact that they are from two separate universes it is impossible that either of them would ever meet.

You should also note the Dr is not a smuggler.

They both seem to break a lot so I would not fancy racing either tbh

You need the enterprise - the advantage of re routing through secondary couplings as they had the sense to build in redundancy for emergency situations- that's Starfleet for you- and the word engage simply works every time.

PS the TARDIS can take any shape but is broken and stuck as the police box- it has a chameleon circuit for disguises appropriate to the time/place it lands

the TARDIS can take any shape but is broken and stuck as the police box

Which begs the question of what shape an un-chameleoned TARDIS is.

Funny, but let me re-iterate, the tardis does NOT TRAVEL ANYWHERE.

It's everywhere and nowhere baby
That's where it's at
Going down a bumpy hillside
In it's hippy hat
..or words to that effect.

And yes, I'm assuming .5 past light speed (c) is c+.5c or 1.5c

Plus the fact that they are from two separate universes it is impossible that either of them would ever meet.

Yes but they are two made up universes from two separate creators.

I am not commenting on the 'possibility of two made up characters meeting; whilst using our current understanding of physics to explain how they would / might meet.

I was always given to understand a TARDIS' appearance was a reflection of it's owners tastes for the purposes of "Dressing" a portal.
Hence 'The Doctor' throughout his various incarnation has always maintained a soft spot for 1930s Police boxes.

The external appearance of a TARDIS is pretty inconsequential, you could have one that looked just like an Austin Princess, a Wardrobe or Millenium Falcon if, as a Time Lord, you found the aesthetic more appealing...

The Millenium Falcon goes pretty fast, but the TARDIS is way cleverer as it goes nowhere and yet anywhere it fancies all at once, and defies the laws of physics the Millenium Falcon is forced to work within. Of course there is far less theatre associated with the TARDIS and so the Millenium Falcon still impresses us upright apes far more easily...

* grabs TV guide and pants *

Is that last word a verb or a noun?

I was always given to understand a TARDIS' appearance was a reflection of it's owners tastes for the purposes of "Dressing" a portal.
Hence 'The Doctor' throughout his various incarnation has always maintained a soft spot for 1930s Police boxes.

No, Junkyard is correct. Well, and you are, sort of.

The TARDIS is supposed to change appearance to blend in with its surroundings. So, for example, you could land it in a forest and make it look like a tree.

The Doctor's TARDIS has a broken chameleon circuit. The story goes that it was in for repairs when the Doctor originally stole it. He didn't get around to fixing it and, according to the Ninth Doctor (Eccleston), he eventually became fond of it and didn't want it fixing.

If you want to know which is better, just offer Han Solo a swap. He'd take your arm off, obviously.

Back when I was a lad (in the Tom Baker Doctor Who days) I thought I had the TARDIS sussed. In fact, I thought it was rather simple, if you accept a couple of little things.

If you accept the idea of infinite parallel universes, all overlapping as they do. And in between all these universes is the Void. Now, as we know, the Void contains neither space nor time. So all the TARDIS had to do is move into the Void (which of course is instant as no distance is involved), and from there you can then travel to any other place in any universe at any point in time. All done instantly and without actually needing to travel any distance. A simple "dimension jump" machine doing away with all the awkward physics of travelling faster than the speed of light, never mind also factoring in time travel.

So I was really rather upset when the David Tennant Doctor Who then didn't know the technology of a void ship when they had one in the Daleks v's Cybermen episodes. Meant I'd had it wrong all those years. Have to presume it's some sort of wormhole thingumy.

If the TARDIS doesn't actually move*, why do we always see footage of it twirling and tumbling through time/space/jelly and its occupants being buffeted around inside?

* I'm not arguing that it does BTW, just pointlessly pondering a potential plot SNAFU

If you want to know which is better, just offer Han Solo a swap. He'd take your arm off, obviously.

See, I don't get that. He's flying a perfectly operable (and super cool) space ship. So, Doctor Who chucks him the keys and says: take my police box that's nowhere and everywhere at the same time but doesn't actually move (although, as verses points out, we see it moving in the show) and I'll have your badass spaceship. How's about it?

Han's going to go for that?

The Doctor's TARDIS has a broken chameleon circuit. The story goes that it was in for repairs when the Doctor originally stole it. He didn't get around to fixing it and, according to the Ninth Doctor (Eccleston), he eventually became fond of it and didn't want it fixing.

I so hope that lot came from Wiki and that's not actual knowledge...

You should also note the Dr is not a smuggler.

Brother, we all gotta survive somehow.

Thanks for the clarification Cougar...

It can fly as well because we have seen it but perhaps that is just a very unstable "door" giving the appearance of flight?

A it is made up its easy to come up with reasons

Han's going to go for that?

Hell yes. Imagine you are a wanted smuggler. Being able to be anywhere and anywhen instantly would be rather bloody useful wouldn't it?

Hell yes. Imagine you are a wanted smuggler. Being able to be anywhere and anywhen instantly would be rather bloody useful wouldn't it?

So would knowing where and when you were going.

Han is a risk-taker, but I doubt he'd mess with the space-time continuum when he has a perfectly good hatch under the Falcon's walkway that Stormtroopers never seem to check.

I don't think the Tardis is that unreliable. I think the Doctor lets it do random stuff, for a bit of fun.

He's a crazy cat, that Doctor.

He'd be a proper liability in the Millennium Falcon. 😀

I so hope that lot came from Wiki and that's not actual knowledge...

I'm not particularly a huge fan, but I did actually know that. My knowledge of classic Who is actually pretty weak, though I took it upon myself to watch some of the old shows recently just to get a feel for the previous incarnations. Patrick Troughton is particularly good.

I don't think the Tardis is that unreliable. I think the Doctor lets it do random stuff, for a bit of fun.

The TARDIS is sentient; the theory is that it doesn't always take him where he wants to go, but usually takes him where he needs to be.

That's what I was going to say also, yes.

With the Dr around, there probably wouldn't even be an Empire.

The TARDIS is sentient; the theory is that it doesn't always take him where he wants to go, but usually takes him where he needs to be.

Stupid question, probably: how does TARDIS know where the Doctor needs to be? Is this some kind of machinery-has-inner-knowledge-of-time-lord-requirements thing? Like if Doctor Who needs some milk for his Shreddies, TARDIS takes him automatically to Wadebridge ASDA?

See, that might work for the Doctor, but where does Han NEED to be? He's smuggling, so if that TARDIS is the self-righteous equipment type won't it take him down to Imperial Jail?

With the Dr around, there probably wouldn't even be an Empire.

Nah-hah. Vader's force vs the Doctor's sonic screwdriver? The Empire would be exactly the same and the only issue would be how BBC could fill its Saturday night schedule.

If the TARDIS doesn't actually move*, why do we always see footage of it twirling and tumbling through time/space/jelly and its occupants being buffeted around inside?

This one I did have to look up.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/TARDIS

TARDISes usually moved through time and space by "disappearing there and reappearing here", a process known as "de- and re-materialisation". This was controlled by a component called the dematerialisation circuit. They also could fly through space like conventional spacecraft, but doing so for prolonged periods could damage the ship, at least in the case of the Doctor's TARDIS.

So, it can do both. It quite often gets interrupted during its regular operation too, as plot mcguffins demand.

That same page answers an earlier question here too; what does a non-chameleoned TARDIS look like?

When the chameleon circuit was not operative, a TARDIS in its natural form resembled a plain cabinet with a sliding door on the front

Every day's a school day.

Stupid question, probably: how does TARDIS know where the Doctor needs to be?

Because it's [i]sentient.[/i] Do pay attention, 007. (-:

where does Han NEED to be?

Elsewhere, usually.

Because it's sentient. Do pay attention, 007. (-:

Stupid question #2: if it's sentient, why does the Doctor have to twist the knobs before he [doesn't go, but go] anywhere? Shouldn't the TARDIS just do its thing in any case?

Next thing you'll be saying that, if the TARDIS had its own sonic screwdriver, you wouldn't need the Doctor at all.

Lol.. nicely put Camo16 but wrong.

The Dr doesn't have big fancy weapons, cos he doesn't need them. He just has brilliant intelligence, which is a greater weapon than all the galaxy's blasters.

You just know there'd be an episode where the Dr goes to confront Palpatine as he's plotting his power grab, and he'd convince him of the error of his ways. Bring balance to the Force the Dr would, yes.

You just know there'd be an episode where the Dr goes to confront Palpatine as he's plotting his power grab, and he'd convince him of the error of his ways. Bring balance to the Force the Dr would, yes.

Pah! The scene where Boba Fett tracks the Doctor down and destroys the last time lord with a single precision blaster shot wouldn't even make it as a Star Wars Mini-sode.

Vader wouldn't even bother to read that memo. He'd be all like 'whatever, I got bigger problems than an eccentric gangly Brit waving around a badly made silver toolwand...'

Wasn't there an episode where they said the TARDIS was designed to have six (?) pilots rather than just one.

Ad that explained why The DR had problems doing it properly on his own ?