[Closed] What do we think of the Atkins Diet ?

good way to fill your digestive system up with grey putty.

but hey, you'll be thin.

Nickc- I would agree with you, however I feel this is the end of my search, I have read many many books on nutrition and health, tried many different ways of eating. A year or so ago my opinions were very different, but I can't see them changing now. It isn't one mans theory, if you do read it I would be very interested in your opinion.
The few people I know who have read this book have now changed the way they eat.

I think a lot of these studies with diet don't take into account hunger/satiety.

This. Without meaning to diss the good-intentioned - unless you've actually treid a few of these plans out in the med/long term then its all too easy to assume.
On regimented low carb diets, hunger pangs literally dissapear. For me, this is why any 'everything in moderation' suggestion simply doesnt work for me.
I comfort eat, mainly in the evening, and I am predisposed to fast weight gain. I am convinced that all refined carbs are the work of the devil - and insulin control is the key.
Hence why Atkins has worked well in the past for me (and switching to iDave type plans) the hunger cravings vanish and eating becomes a fuel exchange rather than an event to cherish..

good way to fill your digestive system up with grey putty.

I counter that with my above statement - try it before you knock it. To be completely frank, the evidence of a carb rich diet is evidently horrific after I drop the kids off at the pool - yet zero-carb type diet reuslts in the most satisfying angel dumps.

The debate is always interesting, but in my current position - taking into account my general resolve, my genetic disposition, and my current 'very out of shape displaying worrying signs of health and not able to fit into any clothes', then a turbo weight loss on Atkins is a vastly better place for my body to be than where it currently is.
Thats how I see it anyways.

I'll massively step up the exercise once im able to fit back into my cycling gear(!).

eating becomes a fuel exchange rather than an event to cherish..

some of my most cherished events happened around meals...not wanting to dismiss your opinion (what works for you etc etc) that statement does seem pretty harsh/bland.

I think i'm going to give it another go.

Says it all, so like all diets you will loose weight. Then you will get board of it and it 'normal' again and put weight back on.

Just eat sensibly, everything in moderation, what fun is life if you cant eat pies/chocolate/chips etc

that statement does seem pretty harsh/bland.

I whole heartedly agree - my point being that I simply am unable to trust myself when given free reign - and unless I actually alter the way I view food, then I will put on weight.

Having your cravings vanish is not only an complete eye opener to a former carb addict, but it gives you the power to refrain from shoving in food.

In fact, I recall becoming acutely aware of the carb infiltration when I was running carb free. Every corner you turn, every show on TV, every shop you enter - they are virtually pushing refined carbs down your throat. It's akin to finding a pair of those sunglasses in 'They Live' - and suddenly seeing the food industry for what it really is. (apologies for random cult sci-fi reference).

What im trying to say is - Christmas dinner would always be a great time, I intend to eat at celebrations/get-togethers, but hopefully i'll be empowered to say 'no thanks - im full'.
Thats a revelation for a perennial plate clearer.

but hopefully i'll be empowered to say 'no thanks - im full'.
Thats a revelation for a perennial plate clearer.

ah, makes much more sense, thanks for the explanation. I agree there's a mindset that one has to be in to conquer any habits (lets steer clear of the word "addiction") that celebrates every day as a win rather than suffering through something that you know is good for you, but craving one's old life.

I think it works because by eating no carbs you get no insulin response and there are no excess Carbs to lay down as fat

almost - [SCIENCE]cells prefer to use fat as an energy source, when you eat glucose insulin is released which leads to an increase in malonyl CoA synthesis. malonyl CoA inhibits an enzyme called CPT-1 which is responsible for the transport of fatty acids across the mitochondrial membrane. Without fatty acid transport, fatty acid metabolism in the mitochondria is reduced and fat can build up. This goes on until all the glucose is used up which in turn causes insulin release to be slowed and malonyl CoA synthesis decreased. Fatty acid transport can then resume. If fat isn't used it gets stored (adipocytes) and you put on weight. The other upshot of eating lots of glucose is what you said, insulin stimulate glycogen synthesis in the liver but once your glycogen storage is filled, the sugars are processed into fatty acids which are exported out the liver as lipoproteins (LDL is bad).[/SCIENCE]

I used to do research into CPT1 and acetyl-CoA carboxylase, the enzyme that makes malonyl CoA.

You loose weight quickly by this method but like other people have said all you have to do is eat less sugar (no cakes, sweeties, sweet tea etc), use artificial sweeteners, reduce portion sizes and exercise. I've lost a stone recently in about 8 weeks using that method although I've not done enough exercise and still take huge portions lol.

use artificial sweeteners

Is there not any evidence to strongly counter this advice? ie, some/most sweeteners are indistinguishable by the chemical system in our bodies, and respond with an insulin spike regardless?

IIRC it has something to do with the sweet taste receptors but I could be wrong. Its not like what happens with actual sugar (glucose) intake however. There are studies that show no difference between water and water + sweetener on blood sugar/insulin levels. The other issue would be that if you have a sugary drink you don't feel hungry for a short time afterwards but with a diet drink you would.

Having your cravings vanish is not only an complete eye opener to a former carb addict, but it gives you the power to refrain from shoving in food.

this has happened to me very recently. I'm still recovering from post viral fatigue which has been horrible. But about 2 weeks ago i decided to cut out sugar,dairy and wheat followingf advice from a nutritionist. My cravings have completely disappeared. To the point i have to remind myself to eat enough food. This is coming from someone that eats sandwiches everyday followed by chocolate from the vending machine and lots of puddings at home.

bravo trickydisco - thats the feeling I was on about. It's weird having to recalibrate isnt it!?

I found that once you've adjusted, you begin to realise that you are more acutely tuned to 'bad' foodstuff - if you eat a packet of crisps or a sandwich/bread, your whole body feels rough afterwards.

Its as if you have to carb binge, and keep binging through the warning signs, until your body is back to functioning on sugar again - and its hello to the blood sugar roller coaster (and weight gain) all over again.

I firmly believe that white refined flour is one of the worst things that has happened to our diet. Our bodies are just not designed to metabolise gluten properly. Sugar being the second worst thing. It's funny every time I go out for a meal or to a party and they have a buffet or party food it's all pizza, pasta, chips, sandwiches, pies, pastries, bread sticks etc. All carb heavy because it's cheap to produce. So that leaves me with the odd chicken leg and salad.

Our bodies are just not designed to metabolise gluten properly.

Source?

interesting convo.

I've been very lucky in that for 45 years I could eat whatever I wanted and remain thin. I love carbs and white bread and crisps are particular weaknesses and even though I don't have a particularly sweet tooth I'm well know around the office for hoovering up anything/everything food-wise.

It's finally caught up with me though and now I'm 52 I can put on weight quite easily even though I'm still riding 10,000 km p.a.

I'm usually 13st and a few pounds or 82kg to 84kg's which is still a reasonable weight for me at 6'2" or 1.88m but twice over the last 15 months I've hit 14st or 90kg's.

The second time I hit 14 stone was over xmas so during the first three weeks of January I stuck to my main meals (including carbs) which are actually quite healthy as the wife likes our two boys to eat healthily. I had absolutely no snacking/cheating in between meals.

Net loss of weight over 3 weeks? Zero.

So I went on a carb-free/low carb diet and lost 7lb (3kg's) over a long weekend (Friday to Monday inclusive) and carried on losing weight so that I've now lost 12lb or circa 6kg's in three weeks.

As per others above, my food cravings have gone. If I do feel hungry I snack on unsalted nuts, mainly cashews. Yes I know these have carbs in but they are good carbs rather than bad.

I'm well aware of the ketones issue as the wife has been a type 1 diabetic for 40 years. I don't have high ketones.

My opinion based purely on my own assumptions about rising levels of diabetes with obesity levels sky rocketing and the fact that I feel a hell of a lot better since I reduced my wheat intake down to about a tenth of what it was. Since when have facts got in the way on Singletrack! 😉

I eat more fat including nuts seeds avocado cheese, full fat Greek yogurt, olive oil than I ever did. My wife had serious problems coping with fat due to Gaul stones. So we ate low fat high carb meals. This in hindsight for me was the worst thing I could of done. The weight piled on despite riding and being fairly active. I have lost about 5 stone since March last year. All I have really done is cut the carbs right down and reduced my sugar intake to lactose in milk and the sugar in fruit. I never eat cakes or biscuits or Choccy bars. For me it was the carbs and sugar causing the weight gain. The health benefits outway the sense of deprivation.

I agree with the hunger pang feeling. I never feel hungry and have to remember to eat sometimes. I never crash now or bonk when riding and my fluid consumption on a ride has dropped dramatically not quite sure why maybe because I'm not processing carbs for fuel or maybe converting fat to energy releases water? Don't know!

trickydisco, read your link, very interesting thanks for posting

A few people on here are now following a way of eating that shares a number of characteristics with Atkins, but absolutely isn't. And as far as I know we have all kept the weight off.

I'm surprised Ton & Molgrips haven't contributedto this thread yet. And I'm still in touch with Dave.

Inbred - I can completely relate to your last post. My wife had a lot of food issues, mainly with vegetables and had a very unhealthy relationship with food. All our meals were carb heavy. Since cutting back on sugar and starchy carbs we've both lost 1.5 st since xmas.

Source?

Not allowed. Full of sugar.

Oh, and there isn't actually any evidence that saturated fat causes heart disease, apparently.

So another reason to eat more vitamin-rich butter than margarine made out of plastic!

I bought Proteinaholic btw, thanks for the recommendation.

It's like death row here tonight, we're on a 'final weekend blow out' I've got a box of crunchy nut cornflakes to get through and a tub of cookies n cream Haagen daaz before the Monday morning curfew. First up, meatballs and pasta..

Dantsw13 That is great news. Education really is the key here regarding food. I have to say that if I listened to my NHS diabetes nurse and dietician regarding my illness I would still be type 2 and medicating. Metformin stops the liver producing energy from your fat reserves to regulate blood sugar. Exactly what you don't want if you are trying to loose the fat. I disregarded most of their advice and cut out sugar and carbs. I did increase my exercise but it was hard on the metformin because I ran out of energy because I wasn't eating carbs. Catch 22. Agreed with my nurse to cut the metformin dose and bang started to loose the weight very quickly in fact so quickly people thought I was ill!

It's like death row here tonight, we're on a 'final weekend blow out' I've got a box of crunchy nut cornflakes to get through and a tub of cookies n cream Haagen daaz before the Monday morning curfew. First up, meatballs and pasta..

Why not just throw it out and start tomorrow?

I mean...if carbs are evil and all that. 😈

I'm following the 8 week blood sugar diet, which was mainly designed for those with type 2 diabetes, exactly as you say above.

Inbred456 - Member 
I firmly believe that white refined flour is one of the worst things that has happened to our diet. Our bodies are just not designed to metabolise gluten properly.

White refined is not necessarily good, but gluten is in wholemeal also and bucket loads of other things. Going truly gluten free is very tough to do, especially finding enough suitable foods that will deliver the same nutrients, especially fibre, as those that contain gluten.

Jamie - Member 

IHN - Member 

Our bodies are just not designed to metabolise gluten properly.

Source?

Not allowed. Full of sugar.

Gluten is not sugar and sugar is gluten-free. Sugary products can contain gluten however.

This often comes up and one source of confusion is probably mistaking gluten (proteins) for glucose (sugar).

Another confusion possibly comes from carbs, which are sugar & starch glucose based. Gluten based products tend to be high carbs products.

If sugar is the concern, careful with gluten free as that doesn't mean no sugar. It may even have sugar as substitute.

Gluten free is only really necessary if you are Celiac and there's little evidence of health benefits for those who aren't.

Sorry.

It was a bad joke.

Source = sauce = tomato sauce = full of sugar

IGMC.

slimjim, I am glad you have bought the book, but bear in mind it wont be telling you what you want to hear, quite the opposite in fact.

I fully understand why people like Atkins style diets, I have done them myself, the initial weight loss (water) makes you feel great and I loved the food, unfortunately it just isn't good for a long life.

Hi Bagstard, not wanting to dismiss the entire book, I flipped to a section I found online regarding comparative studies on other primates and humans and it was more than a little bit inaccurate!

I've ordered it, and will have a read (I suspect as a veggie, it's not directed at folk like me) and I guess it was a matter of time that someone wrote a book demonising protein, after all every other macro nutrient has had it's fair share of muck thrown at it!

Hi nickc, read the book from the start, recipes at the end are pretty crap. I wouldn't say it was demonizing protein, just the fact that we eat far too much of it, especially strength trainers like myself. As I said previously I am now eating a plant based diet as much as possible and feel much better for it.

The book teaches you how to judge studies and is in in my mind very transparent. What was it you found to be inaccurate and can you back it up? Anyway get back to me after reading, I was skeptical at the start.

Another LCHF here, about 3kg off in a month. Sugar cravings etc much reduced.

I'm struggling to get the numbers on the turbo-trainer though, and my RHR is about 10% higher. I've no idea if that's a transient thing, I do hope so.

What was it you found to be inaccurate and can you back it up

yeah, he was talking about the Orang-Utans and Gorilla species eating a diet consisting of mainly veg. In short the other large primates have a vastly different gut composition to humans, they have massive colons (the large primate pot belly) in comparison to humans (and we have a rather more developed small intestine, for digesting the proteins found in meat), now gorillas can eat up to 20kgs of veg a day (including stuff like bark and twigs) and from that colon they digest an awful lot of nutrients, including a considerable amount of proteins (conveniently ignored). Plus, the hunting behaviour of the smaller large primates (Chimpanzee and Bonobo) are widely reported. Its complex and comparatively rare, but it's there, and not just the diet of small insects that the book suggests.

This is pretty standard knowledge I'm surprised it was inaccurate TBH

I'm struggling to get the numbers on the turbo-trainer though

A crude knowledge of how our bodies use the different fuel sources suggests a lack of carbohydrates in the body will always make efforts upwards from threshold pretty hard.

Another LCHF here, about 3kg off in a month.

It's the sustainability of these diets I find interesting. Would be interested to see if you can stick with it for 6 months+. As in my experience very few can. Partly due to the impracticalities of eating sans carbs on the go, etc.

It's the sustainability of these diets I find interesting. Would be interested to see if you can stick with it for 6 months+..

My biggest weakness is beer! Without my carb intake would be very low. 🙂

Partly due to the impracticalities of eating sans carbs on the go, etc.

This is an issue. I travel a lot with work and it really highlights the amount of starchy carb that is sold.

When really stuck I have gone into McDonalds or Burger King and got a burger and then discarded the bread. Not super healthy I know but still better than eating it with the horrible white bread.

Evening meals are generally easier, just ask for extra veg or salad instead of the chips/potatoes with your meat or fish.

It's the sustainability of these diets I find interesting.

Me too ! Although so far I'm only missing beer. TBH I was already low carb before starting this apart from the beer, which is all I've given up (I stopped rice/pasta/bread/spuds etc years ago as they made me bloated). Clearly my turbo efferts were previously beer-fueled !

Medium to high intensity exercise is fueld 70-100% carbs

n short the other large primates have a vastly different gut composition to humans, they have massive colons (the large primate pot belly) in comparison to humans (and we have a rather more developed small intestine

Just to be argumentative, I would say it's similar but as you say the colon is longer in the apes while the small intestine is larger. Vastly different would be a cow lol

Diets fall into one of the following:

Low Carb
Low Fat
Reduced Calories

This is regardless of what they may be called - Slimming World, Atkins, Paleo, 5:2, Cambridge, Keto, Lean in 15, Weight Watchers et al.

Choose which works best for you and combine it with a decent exercise programme. Consistency is the key to sustainable results.

Jamie - Member 
Source = sauce = tomato sauce = full of sugar

I consider tomato sauce an essential food that I cannot survive without. If ever I needed a blood transfusion I think my blood type is Heinz Tomato Ketchup. 😀

Regarding the Protinaholic book. There is a very long and detailed critique on it online that show huge inaccuracies in it content. The critique is a very long read.

https://deniseminger.com/2016/04/25/proteinaholic-is-it-time-to-sober-up-from-animal-foods-a-review-and-critique/

In summary it is not a great piece of work.

Difficulty with diets is after restricting yourself for weeks or months, you tend to go back to your old eating habits after the end of the diet. Which means your current weight.

Mayby look at some permanent changes, eat more natural non processed foods, cut out snacking, slightly reduce plate portion etc.

I dislike the word diet because it implies a temporary change. I changed what I ate because of health issues and have found a balance that I can stick with so far, 10 months in. It's not cheap either. Nuts are damned expensive and the amount of salad I eat is really expensive. Have to get a green house going I think!

Simple rules for me are no snacks after tea (dinner for our southern friends) till breakfast. Keeps the old blood sugar stable. After dinner if I'm not riding in the evening I go for a walk 45mins with the pog every night hopefully keeps the old metabolism going.

Would be interested to see if you can stick with it for 6 months+

I'll be giving it 6mths minimum, or 4stone weight loss, whichever comes first. Then gradually switching to a paleo type 'lifestyle' (not diet).

Mayby look at some permanent changes, eat more natural non processed foods, cut out snacking, slightly reduce plate portion etc.

Medium to high intensity exercise is fueled 70-100% carbs

Depends on your adaptation. It tends to be the case in the untrained, but in the highly trained fat is used predominantly. There are a load of Keto-athletes showing how this is done. I intend becoming one of them (and I'm now up to 90% of previous FTP).

[quote=Jamie ]

Another LCHF here, about 3kg off in a month.

Can't you only store so much carbohydrate for conversion to energy. Where as your body can keep fuelling you from fat for much longer or so I thought?

Can't you only store so much carbohydrate for conversion to energy.

Where as your body can keep fuelling you from fat for much longer or so I thought?

There are a load of Keto-athletes showing how this is done. I intend becoming one of them (and I'm now up to 90% of previous FTP).

I think portion size is the key as you say Mike but even going carb free as in rice pasta and bread you are still getting carbohydrate from veg. The problem is as you say portion control and the fact that it seems to cause a craving due to a spike and crash in blood sugar. I still eat carbohydrate but I've cut it right down to an arbitrary level that I think is about right. Rising obesity levels would suggest that this is really hard to control. I would suggest mixing the carbohydrate with fibre so it takes longer to digest.

Depends on your adaptation. It tends to be the case in the untrained, but in the highly trained fat is used predominantly. There are a load of Keto-athletes showing how this is done. I intend becoming one of them (and I'm now up to 90% of previous FTP).

got any proof for that?

Day 1 - I skipped breakfast, breaking the first Atkins rule of not going longer than 6hrs between meals.
Not sure what im going to do for lunch, probably a couple of eggs and a chicken breast.
I think I have a pre-sugar crash sympathy headache coming on..

There are a load of Keto-athletes showing how this is done

Who are these keto-gods?

My guess is that if it works for anyone then it's limited to ultra-running and endurance swimming... basically only events where the individual dictates the pace and maintains efforts well below threshold.

Just to be argumentative, I would say it's similar

well, you could...You'd be wrong (if we just being argumentative), but you could say it. 😆

C'mon, Molgrips. I know you're reading this and want to weigh in.

😉

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSojwMAWworLtkSsNhRs4tfMlD3X3LmdZz9Q_XLyj5RQslGkq72 [/img]

Jamie today...

want to weigh in

That's Weight Watchers.

Japanese PoW diet is pretty effective for fast weight loss.

Restricted portions and hard work. Effective on all participants.

Amazed no-one has commercialised it.

Day 2: Minging headache last night. Sat on my sofa fantacising about a large glass of Vimto, or a nice fizzy Coka Zero. Substituted these for a diet water.
Hooray.

Fat burning diets need a high water intake. I reckon you are dehydrated.

Consistency is the key to sustainable results.

Indeed. Make the change and make it permanent.

[quote=The Southern Yeti ]There are a load of Keto-athletes showing how this is done
Who are these keto-gods?
My guess is that if it works for anyone then it's limited to ultra-running and endurance swimming... basically only events where the individual dictates the pace and maintains efforts well below threshold.

I believe the Scottish Enduro Series masters champion follows a ketogenic diet

So we have one then?

Day 2: Minging headache last night.

This is very common when becoming fat adapted.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/side-effects

[quote=mikewsmith ]So we have one then?

🙄

THe simplest of internet searches reveals lots more but the statement was

My guess is that if it works for anyone then it's limited to ultra-running and endurance swimming...

and I only needed to mention 1 to prove TSY wrong 8)

*mutters under breath about niche athletes*

Fair play sir, and in a sport that requires some explosive power too.

The stuff I've read (and is what comes up with a simple search) shows if anything a decline in performance for highly trained athletes by following a keto diet.

Maybe he could be British Champ with carbs?

[quote=The Southern Yeti ]*mutters under breath about niche athletes*
Fair play sir, and in a sport that requires some explosive power too.
The stuff I've read (and is what comes up with a simple search) shows if anything a decline in performance for highly trained athletes by following a keto diet.
Maybe he could be British Champ with carbs?

I'll put my hand up and say I'm not clued up, but I listen to a lot of podcasts where it's being talked about. There's something there but the jury will still be out on the suitability across all sport and the long term impact

The Southern Yeti

Maybe he could be British Champ with carbs?

People on low carb diets can and some do take carbs strategically when they might need them. Apparently those on low carb diets will respond better to carbs when they are introduced to them they would on a "normal" diet.

Anyway, for examples of high level athletes on low carb and ketogenic diets you can look at mixed martial artists, probably the most complex set of demands you could ever put on the body. Due to weight categories and weight cutting being prevalent in mma ketogenic/low carb diets are now very common to allow athletes to lose as much body fat as possible prior to the fight.

But really, unless you're an elite athlete don't worry about elite athletes.

There's something there but the jury will still be out on the suitability across all sport and the long term impact

Sounds like carb-cycling / periodisation of nutrition for the MMA fellas. Bit like training in a sauna to lose weight for boxing weigh ins.

But you're right,

unless you're an elite athlete don't worry about elite athletes

The Southern Yeti

Sounds like carb-cycling / periodisation of nutrition for the MMA fellas.

Somewhat, but a lot are sticking to low carb diets year round to remain relatively lean, then going ketogenic during the 8-10 week prep for a fight to get super lean (and of course they lose water weight too). So they certainly train incredibly hard on low carb diets.

this is a total digression.

Is the thread which diet is best for elite world class athletes?

Is the thread which diet is best for elite world class athletes?

Hence why I agreed it was a digression. Maybe it should be about that now...

You got any links to the MMA stuff? Sounds more interesting than talking about Atkins any more.

The Southern Yeti

You got any links to the MMA stuff? Sounds more interesting than talking about Atkins any more.

Nope, sorry. But if you google there are dozens of rabbit holes you can go down. Through social media and promo vlogs etc you can see what an awful lot of these guys are eating and low carb / ketogenic staples seem to constitute the vast majority of their meals. A number of trainers and dieticians have spoken about it at length too but most stop short of labeling it low carb/ketogenic probably because they don't want to be perceived as just copy and paste merchants.

Weighed myself at the GP clinic this morning. Yup. Currently heaviest ever. Im genuinely too embarrassed to even fess up.

On a positive note, hunger pangs have been flat for last 24hrs - I already feel like I can sustain this for the forseeable.

Breath is currently only as stinky as usual too.

Through social media and promo vlogs etc you can see what an awful lot of these guys are eating and low carb / ketogenic

Just Rogan, innit? (onnit?)

If I remember right, [url=

Tate[/url] went on the keto diet, then got steamrolled by Nunes at UFC 200.

Which obviously proves nothing, but only fighter I remember to adopt LCHF during training camp.

Yep, I've read a couple of things about how badly many fighters fare on LCHF type diets, particularly around the time when they're trying to cut for a fight.

Perhaps adopting an LCHF diet doesn't really change their bodies requirement for carbohydrate as a fuel for explosive movement?

I imagine those that generally claim something akin to LCHF are fueling around exercise like on the iDiet.

Jamie

If I remember right, Miesha Tate went on the keto diet, then got steamrolled by Nunes at UFC 200.

There's no diet in the world that'll prevent you going unconscious when a Brazilian Jiu-jitsu black belt is choking you 😉

Plenty of others appear to be on lchf diets but don't call it that as they're obviously just eating what they are told. I woudn't put much credit in in fight performance, the day to day training will actually be as hard if not significantly harder.

I personally had no problems 1-2hrs of grappling while on a ketogenic diet.

I don't mind digression, but I draw the line at UFC.

KFC, maybe.

Just take the batter off.