[Closed] What do meat eaters think about this?

@herbivore, binbins is one of the best advertisements going for veganism . 🙂

I butchered my neighbour and ate him and now I'm in Broadmoor! Where's the justice I ask you?

@herbivore, binbins is one of the best advertisements going for veganism .

[crap vegan joke]

You're too late, DD. He's gone for a lie down, as writing that post has used up all his energy.

[/crap vegan joke]

The new forum wants its joke back.

How much CO2 would I produce if I were to capture, cook, and eat a meat eater?
I mean, if I were to make a pie out of Binners, what would be the global deficit/gain in CO2?

Don't forget to account for his total Greenhouse gas emissions during his life time.

My guess is the methane output is off the charts.

Carbon footprint of these 3 little pigs?
[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8748552979_84652dcdcb_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8748552979_84652dcdcb_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ek5C1k ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]Mike Smith 79[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8420/8747015776_5f5331c203_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8420/8747015776_5f5331c203_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ejWK3Q ]2013-05-17 13.23.51[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]Mike Smith 79[/url], on Flickr
Not sure but none of them owned a plasma & 3l car/ego chariot 😉

He's gone for a lie down, as writing that post has used up all his energy.

This scene from the Lord of the rings, the way he eats, dribbles etc. Get the stuff shoved in!

[img] [/img]

Or even more through provoking...if I made a pie out of Binners' lower half, would Binners himself eat said pie?

Yes. My impoverished northern monkey upbringing means I literally have to eat any pastry based product placed in front of me. Even if it contained my own man vegetables

In my own mind, every meal I eat is like Brian Blessed at the banqueting table in Blackadder, and should therefore contain at least half an ox, so I can eat it off the bone, then casually toss over my shoulder

[img] [/img]

You simply can't do that with an aubergine. It doesn't have the same impact

On the roadbike last night I was thinking..

Like in the film that crashed in Peru. How long would it take until Veggies and meat eaters tucked into a dead person?

Try not eating for a week. Then two weeks. We are ALL meat eaters. Its only because of the first world that allows us the luxury of choice.

This is how I view the world if I skip breakfast

Try not eating for a week. Then two weeks. We are ALL meat eaters. Its only because of the first world that allows us the luxury of choice.

That would be the "Describes some extremely unlikely hypothetical situation in which you'd be forced to eat meat to survive" box on the bingo dazh posted, right?

Has anyone mentioned this yet? I didn't notice it and the bingo missed it out!

“Approximately 85 percent of U.S. grazing lands are unsuitable for producing crops. Grazing animals on this land more than doubles the area that can be used to produce food."

Its only because of the first world that allows us the luxury of choice.

PS India [ the most veggies] and thailand and Asia etc are delighted to be elevated to the first world.

PPS I have to confess that after about a week trapped on a hillside I would eat you starting with your tongue 😉

We should all just eat insects...

I thought kangaroos were the answer

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7551125.stm ]Kangaroos produce virtually no methane[/url]

[img] [/img]

^^^ thats actually lamb, but it looks like skippy!

I thought kangaroos were the answer

I'm being deadly[s]darcy[/s] serious. I watched that doc last year, and it really does highlight how inefficient our current meat production is. If anyone has a spare hour, I recommend watching it.

Would be quite the culture shift, tho.

It would be interesting to see how those figures in the OP would be projected to tally up if we, globally, all became vegetarians. At the moment you can point to meat production and say - per meal - its more CO2 intensive than veg. But at the same time its estimated that a 1/3 of the world's grain/fruit/veg production is sustained by Haber Bosch fixed nitrogen fertilisers - and thats a big fossil fuel consumer and CO2 producer, and without that production a large proportion of the planet would starve.

That level of fertilizer production and use would have to presumably increase drastically for a hyperthetical global vegan diet - but would the result be a better or worse situation than the one we have? That would be the meaningful comparison - its no good saying my plate of food is better for the planet then your plate of food because it would the actions of everyone, not some, that would make the difference. And if its not the vision that everyone would live that life then its pointless to attach those global/climate/resource claims to diet that only a handful of middleclass fad-food-refusers in the richer fringes of the planet would adhere to.

I'd like to know why we don't eat more insects/bugs/etc... in the western world? I've been playing with it and tried a few now and some are really nice.

Have you actually been out on your bike at about 4:30pm ATM? I seem to end up with a fair bit extra protein in my system what with all the flying, suicidal buzzy things. I would prefer that they don't hit the back of my throat at 20mph+ though.
**Must remember to close mouth whilst riding** 😮 😳

Great thread, and just for the record I love the taste of meat. Bacon, chicken, steak, pork, lamb.....nom, nom, nom.
Veggies are good too. Broccoli ftw.

BTW Gordon Ramsay has a recipe for a [b]really[/b] good veggie curry in his Fast Food book (celeriac based mainly).

This argument is missing the water aspect, meat requires hundreds of times more water to produce. Even if you add a significant fudge factor, this is going to become a more pressing issue very soon.

It would be interesting to see how those figures would be projected to tally up if we, globally, all became vegetarians.

its pointless to attach those global/climate/resource claims to diet that only a handful of middleclass fad-food-refusers in the richer fringes of the planet would adhere to

Bloody veggies always preaching ...BASTARDS

Bloody veggies always preaching ...BASTARDS

I wasn't pointing that at veggies specifically - more a general rich-world fashion for refusing the food thats available to us in many and varied ways - whether its local enough or organic enough or too many or too few antioxidants or novel enough or whether it contains one of the key staple cereals that I've just decided, without diagnosis, that I'm allergic to. People make a lot of these refusals on the basis that their choices are for the benefit of the wider world when they're really playing a game of one-upmanship with their peers, but its actions being taken by a statistically insignificant number of people. We make so many refusals with confused and conflicting reasoning that one aim is often defeating another.

I'm not a vegetarian but but I'd say vegetarians have nearer to the right amount of meat on their plate each week than most omnivores do. Those initial figures compare a 'meat-rich' diet to a vegetarian one but a healthy, sensible omnivorous diet shouldn't return figures that would be wildly different to a veg one.

So the OPs advice is to eat more gammon and less steak? Got it! Thanks for the tip off.

if we, globally, all became vegetarians

we'd all have to carry canaries in cages and avoid naked flames in confined spaces

As a dairy herd manager please keep eating beef and drinking milk. I couldn't give shit what the veggies say 🙂

tuffty -I hereby swear to you, I shall be doing my utmost to keep you in gainful employment 😀

That level of fertilizer production and use would have to presumably increase drastically for a hyperthetical global vegan diet

Departing from the tongue in cheek meateaters vs veggies banter for a second, I'll think you'll find after a miniscule amount of googling, that a significant percentage of the world's grain is grown to feed livestock, not humans. In the hypothetical situation that everyone suddenly went vegan, there'd be more than enough grain to feed everyone on the planet a number of times over so you'd actually need less fertilisers, less land, less energy etc, all resulting in a massive reduction in carbon emissions. But hey, it's more fun to talk about vegans farting a lot.....

But.... but.... I don't want to eat grain! I want to eat gert juicy big burgers. And steak puddings, with chips and gravy 😥

And I'm not just selfishly thinking of myself here. Look at him. Go on... LOOK! Are you going to deny him the chance of a happy life? Eh? Are you? Ultimately, yes, he'll be a pie... probably a really really nice pie.... but think of the joyful, carefree days he'll spend frolicking in the fields with his mates, being fed all that grain I don't want to eat, before he's shot through the head with a bolt gun, dismembered, then wrapped in pastry. Are you going to deny him that, you heartless bastard?!! ARE YOU?!!!!

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I wonder how much CO2 is released producing your steed/rod/weapon and getting it to your doorstep.

I wonder how much CO2 is released producing your steed/rod/weapon and getting it to your doorstep.

I imagine most Veg/Vegans don't own a car either or buy DVDs or foreign holidays.

I imagine most Veg/Vegans don't own a car either or buy DVDs or foreign holidays.

...and that's science!

People make a lot of these refusals on the basis that their choices are for the benefit of the wider world when they're really playing a game of one-upmanship with their peers

I'm not a vegetarian

TBH I am not sure if you are being serious but people choose to eat food for a broad range of reasons and I dont know anyone who does it for ad hom reasons you have stated.

Departing from the tongue in cheek meateaters vs veggies banter for a second, I'll think you'll find after a miniscule amount of googling, that a significant percentage of the world's grain is grown to feed livestock, not humans. In the hypothetical situation that everyone suddenly went vegan, there'd be more than enough grain to feed everyone on the planet a number of times over so you'd actually need less fertilisers, less land, less energy etc, all resulting in a massive reduction in carbon emissions. But hey, it's more fun to talk about vegans farting a lot.....

You could then further optimise it by raising goats, pigs and sheep on the land that isn't fit for (grain) farming. Kebabs will still be an option, and bacon too. Just not as much of it.

I'll think you'll find after a miniscule amount of googling, that a significant percentage of the world's grain is grown to feed livestock, not humans. In the hypothetical situation that everyone suddenly went vegan, there'd be more than enough grain to feed everyone on the planet a number of times over so you'd actually need less fertilisers, less land, less energy etc, all resulting in a massive reduction in carbon emissions. But hey, it's more fun to talk about vegans farting a lot.....

we're back to that game of 'intensive grain fed cattle consume X kilo's of grain, therefore all meat produced consumes a similar amount of grain, and we multiply accordingly to come up with an answer'

The problem comes of course where farmers use cattle as part of a crop system where fallow, grazing and fodder production cycles play a part in keeping the land in a fit state to produce high grain yields (not necessarily as simple as just crop rotation, but including the spreading of muck as fertiliser on fields, and also including for example the use of manure for mushroom substrate)

Essentially, remove the animals from the system and you reduce the grain and other food crop yields in the long term, you can't just grow grain on the fields year after year.

I never knew kebabs grazed? Every days a school day on here 😀

we're back to that game of 'intensive grain fed cattle consume X kilo's of grain, therefore all meat produced consumes a similar amount of grain, and we multiply accordingly to come up with an answer'

The problem comes of course where farmers use cattle as part of a crop system where fallow, grazing and fodder production cycles play a part in keeping the land in a fit state to produce high grain yields (not necessarily as simple as just crop rotation, but including the spreading of muck as fertiliser on fields, and also including for example the use of manure for mushroom substrate)

Essentially, remove the animals from the system and you reduce the grain and other food crop yields in the long term, you can't just grow grain on the fields year after year.

Well put,

I'm someone who spent about 16 years as a veggie but now eats meat, but not a lot. I originally chose to not eat meat because the only meat I could afford at the time was low quality and I had concerns about some of the high volume farm practices of the meat I could afford. The place I'd like the world to be is a predominately vegetarian one with a smaller amount of meat eaten, grown in a more sympathetic, intelligent and sustainable way(like on a farm as nifan describes rather than the factory farm in the OP). We got to the point in the west where as a society it was almost a right for every consumer of any economic background to feel 'entitled' to eat meat 3 times a day, 7 days a week and to prefer rubbish tasteless poor quality meat to higher quality tasty veggie alternatives of the same monetary value. If we got to the point where it became the norm for people who choose to eat meat to eat good quality, tasty meat just 3 or 4 meals a week and to be more aware and accepting of alternatives I think it would be great.

The other bee in my bonnet is that schools should continue to improve the education they give in healthy eating and giving the next generation improved skills in cooking with more open eyes as to what tastes good and how to feed yourself cheaply.

I never knew kebabs grazed? Every days a school day on here

They are basically concentrated vegetables so really, really good for you.

Like in the film that crashed in Peru. How long would it take until Veggies and meat eaters tucked into a dead person?

Try not eating for a week. Then two weeks. We are ALL meat eaters. Its only because of the first world that allows us the luxury of choice.

I was going to keep out of this but this has just totally confused me! Were you on a blood sugar dip on the road bike? Try eating a banana or a couple of dates.

If you crashed in Peru you would probably live of the vast abundance of fruit and veg that the country has. In fact, in post places in the world you would look to the land to eat and the easiest pickings would be fruit and veg. If you were near the sea you would fish and you might try hunting animals and occasionally get lucky.

We are all programmed to survive and your example in my opinion proves that we are only occasional meat eats, not that we are cannibals.

Would a meat eat start eating people before tucking into the veg?

The big worry about food is that developing nations are getting more money and thus eating more and more western style diets with more meat. Which means the world won't be able to feed it's population. So I'm not sure what your point is about having the choice as a developed nation?

[i] In the hypothetical situation that everyone suddenly went vegan, there'd be more than enough grain to feed everyone on the planet a number of times over so you'd actually need less fertilisers, less land, less energy etc, all resulting in a massive reduction in carbon emissions. [/i]

But we, well, Humans, didn't evolve to thrive on grains. Hence why we need to process them for consumption. So, thats not really an option, I'm affraid.

[i] I never knew kebabs grazed? [/i]
Well, if she shaves and you don't... well, you get the picture.

If you crashed in Peru you would probably live of the vast abundance of fruit and veg that the country has. In fact, in post places in the world you would look to the land to eat and the easiest pickings would be fruit and veg.

Hora was confused ( 🙄 ) - he was thinking of [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Andes_flight_disaster ]Argentina[/url].

Humans, didn't evolve to thrive on grains. Hence why we need to process them for consumption. So, that's not really an option, I'm affraid.

We did not evolve to ride bikes or type on computers either so you will be giving those up I assume. Whilst your point is true its a red herring as we can eat lots of things and still "thrive" and next to nothing that humans do were part of our evolution unless you live like a caveman or like it is 10000 BC.

Oh, Junkyard. In your case, I whole heartedly endorse your consumption of grains & dairy, if dairy is acceptable to you.
🙂

But we, well, Humans, didn't evolve to thrive on grains. Hence why we need to process them for consumption. So, thats not really an option, I'm affraid.

Superb! At this rate we'll have a full house on the defensive omnivore bingo by the end of page 5.

Superb! At this rate we'll have a full house on the defensive omnivore bingo by the end of page 5.

I reckon we've only actually managed to cover a couple of the squares so far, it's been a reasonable civilised discussion up to this point.

The grain bit looks more like the paleo/iDave diet argument to me.

Well I count 7 so far. Maybe 8 or 9 if you count the concerns about evolutionary history in the 'Mentions canine teeth', or 'something irrelevant about cavemen' categories.

Interesting though on the not thriving on grains thing. Bread is obviously a modern white middle class invention 🙂

*puts down chicken nugget*

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/-sp-revealed-dirty-secret-uk-poultry-industry-chicken-campylobacter

I'm surprised that the difference between a vegan diet and meat one isn't bigger.

So full-on Vegans. I imagine this is how they look and interact with humans:

[img] [/img]

you've met me plenty of times hora.
stop being a tit.

I appreciate it's just mild trollage hora but anyway, here's what a 78yo vegan looks like

you've met me plenty of times hora.
stop being a tit.

I appreciate it's just mild trollage hora but anyway, here's what a 78yo vegan looks like

LIFELONG Vegan and/or good genetics?

I think you'd struggle to find many 78yo lifelong "vegans", as the word has only existed since 1944.

What difference does it make anyway? You have your idea of what a vegan looks like, I have mine. Having first gone vegan at 18 (now 40)I suspect I have a larger sample to draw from than you.

I won't quote all the silly comments, if this forum has proved anything to me and the wider world. It's that there really is no limit to ignorance.

[i]The grain bit looks more like the paleo/iDave diet argument to me.[/i]
For quite a while, I lived in a region of the UK given over, predominately to arable farming. Funny this was, unlike seeing folk picking fruit and eating it. I never witnessed folk standing in wheat fields, eating that there free wheat. I dare say you could chew on an ear of wheat, but I wouldn't suggest it's an intelligent dietary choice. But hey-ho.
😉

Some of the most overweight and obese people I've ever met are vegan. On the subject of the 'healthyness' (is that even a word?) of veganism though., both my kids are vegan, and when the oldest was a baby we asked the GP at one of the regular post-birth checkups if there was anything we should look out for nutrition-wise as she got older. The GP said something along the lines of 'don't worry about it, most kids I see these days are overweight and have terrible diets and I wish more were veggie/vegan as then the parents are at least thinking about what they feed them'.

. I never witnessed folk standing in wheat fields, eating that there free wheat

I've never seen anyone stand in a potato field, dig up a potato and eat it either.