What CD player (trackworld)

A 90s Marantz on eBay

I have an old Technics SL PG490 that must be about 25 years old. Had to open it up and dust it once.

Used Marantz, Cambridge Audio or similar from eBay. Is there a stereo track world out there with a classifieds? Quite a few audio fans on here so maybe a wanted ad?

I’ve got a marantz cd63se which I’ve been pleased with, can usually pick them up for reasonable money (the ki versions go for more)

go and put a wanted on pinkfishmedia

Ive an Arcam alpha 8 from the mid 90's that is fantastic (had since new) and a denon cd mini system. The arcam is light years better than the denon despite being 20 years older and will play slightly scratched discs that the denon can't cope with. To be fair the arcam was horribly expensive at the time though

So I'd say something mid 90's too. There must have been a point where cd tech peaked but i'm not sure when though

There were loads of alpha models if i remember so there must be plenty still out there

Secondhand Marantz CD6006 would be my choice. Excellent quality, built like a tank and plenty about. Should be able to get a good one for under 200

Marantz CD63 MKII KI Signature

Or CD63SE which is cheaper

Or Onkyo C7030

I use the Marantz CD6007. I can not fault it in any way. I'd pay the 379 to get a new one with warranty & stuff. But of course, there are used bargains to be had...

Speaking as a lapsed audiophile, I'd respectfully suggest that you're overthinking it.

Whatever they have on offer in Tesco is likely of comparable audio quality to something top of the range from 30 years ago so long as it spits out digital audio. If the signal path is digital end-to-end then what goes in == what comes out, it's just a media transport.

Was gunna say you could get a cheapy and connect to an external DAC?

Phew, I thought I was going to get molested for that post.

An external DAC even... I get it, but to my mind the longer you can remain in the digital stage the better. Assuming an SPDIF/TOSlink input on the amp I'd want to let the amp deal with DAC unless it was particularly poor, which it shouldn't be.

Honestly, in this day and age I'd sack off CDs completely and look at some form of solid state solution. But I expect that's going to be even less popular of an idea. 😁

Thanks all, some options to look at there. The built like a tank options sound appealing.

I was hoping to avoid a separate dac as well, I'm not sure I'd notice the difference. Amp is analogue only iirc.

I get the point about sacking off CDs for digital but I think part of what I want is the searching through the physical collection and picking something to play (instead of endless scrolling).

I prefer making a conscious decision to play a cd or vinyl record, I listen to the whole album that way rather than constantly skipping through streamed tracks.

Marantz CD63 MKII KI Signature

You'll pay a premium for one and I'm not sure if it would sound any better than a modern 200 quid one really.

Have a look on Marketplace and you could easily pick up a decent pre owned single disc player for under fifty quid.

As for streaming vs CDs. I find I skim albums on streaming services but I listen to whole albums on CD. I've been going through eBay and buying copies of old albums I used to own on CD as they're super cheap. I've even seen people selling their CD collections for really not much money cos "it's all on Spotify anyway".

Any album I really love then I'll buy the vinyl too.

Amp is analogue only iirc.

The DAC outputs analogue. You output the CD player via digital to co-ax or optical, the DAC converts it to analogue, the amp plays the analogue sound 🙂

You'd be surprised the change in sound even a cheap DAC can make. Fortunately you can get them super cheap and again, Facebook Marketplace is a great place to pick up a pre owned DAC from someone who might have upgraded.

I put the digital out from my CD63 Mkii KI Signature through an external DAC therefore demoting it to transport only.

Why? Because the advances in digital to audio conversion over the past 30 odd years have been massive. The systems for data acquisition from the disc itself are pretty much as they were, as are servo controllers and clock technology.

Personally, I would not be purchasing a CD player nowadays. The lazers do not last forever and getting replacement parts is tricky and it's a hassle to fix. Add in the fact that solid state solutions generally sound so much better, I just think the traditional CD player is not worth it nowadays.

Having said that, I understand the desire to browse the records to chose what to play, but you can still do that, just not put the CD in an actual drawer.

I'm all for people ditching their CDs because it means that I can buy them for 20p from Cancer Research. Got thousands of them! As stated above it is all about the browsing and selecting.

Keep up the good work!

FWIW we've got a 20 year old Onkyo and a 35 year old Pioneer. Both still sound OK to my 54 year old ears.

he DAC outputs analogue. You output the CD player via digital to co-ax or optical, the DAC converts it to analogue, the amp plays the analogue sound 🙂

You’d be surprised the change in sound even a cheap DAC can make. Fortunately you can get them super cheap and again, Facebook Marketplace is a great place to pick up a pre owned DAC from someone who might have upgraded.

I have heard the same on my audiophile forum travels

https://www.avforums.com/threads/how-does-the-1990s-marantz-cd63-mkii-ki-compare-to-more-modern-cd-players.1847742/

I know sometimes you have to take audiophile reviews on forums with a pinch of salt

Speaking as a lapsed audiophile, I’d respectfully suggest that you’re overthinking it.

Whatever they have on offer in Tesco is likely of comparable audio quality to something top of the range from 30 years ago so long as it spits out digital audio. If the signal path is digital end-to-end then what goes in == what comes out, it’s just a media transport.

Yes. And no. But mostly yes.

This holds up in theory, no question. Cheap CD players now are using technology from the top of the range players 30 years ago. CDs are no longer so popular, so the sales of CD players has dropped off a cliff. Thus most manufacturers can no longer charge hundreds of pounds for products, because hardly anyone's buying them. In real world use, a decent player from 30 years ago will probably have better quality components within, mechanical and electronic. So the transport mechanisms will be of better quality (the good ones were really quite heavy, indicating solid metal parts rather than flimsy plastic bits), and the electronic gubbins will deal with electrons better. Or something. But basically yes.

A decent second hand player will offer as good a sound as anything new, but cost a lot less. Plenty of the aforementioned Marantz CD63SE's on Ebay from £40-60. I personally wouldn't bother with the 'KI Signature Edition'; you'll pay a chunk extra for a gold coloured badge, and a few quids worth of upgraded electronic components which suited the ears of a middle aged man. Having heard both side by side, I can honestly say I couldn't really tell the difference. Nothing that warranted the extra price tag anyway. I went for the cheapo standard option and I've been happy with it for getting on for 30 years.

But the one thing you can do which genuinely will make a significant difference, is to add a DAC. As a poster above says, current technology in this department is way better than it was 30 years ago. I bought a Bluesound Node digital streamer/DAC earlier this year, and having done a side by side comparison with the CD player direct into the amp, and via the Node, there is definitely a difference. Greater dynamic range, better rendition of actual sounds and frequencies etc. The Node is relatively expensive though, but cheaper DACS will do a similar job for less. Think of the different parts as a mechanical transport and a DAC; most CD players came with a bog standard Phillips transport, that you could buy as a PC CD player for about £20 or so (but without the write capabilities), about £10 worth of other electronics, and a power supply.

I went for the Node for its streaming capabilities. I am currently working through ripping all my CDs to lossless AIFF files, and the CD player will eventually be retired. I've done a comparison with both methods of delivery, and there's no difference at all. So why continue using something that consumes extra power?

The CD Player is dead; long live the CD Player!

I've got a lightly-used Marantz CD-67 I really ought to sell... got rid of the CDs ages ago!

I see lots of "20 years of my cd collecting" for hundred quid on the socials. I'm totally down with that!

Amp is analogue only iirc.

Can you confirm?

You’d be surprised the change in sound even a cheap DAC can make.

Yes, I would, given that "a (possibly cheap) DAC" is already exactly what's inside any amp which accepts digital input.

I am genuinely, 100% percent open to being surprised if anyone would care to give me a demo?

Both still sound OK to my 54 year old ears.

The one component in the system that it's really difficult to upgrade.

But the one thing you can do which genuinely will make a significant difference, is to add a DAC.

Fundamentally, the source (a CD / CD player) is digital and the destination (speakers / your ears) is analogue. So by definition there will always be a DAC somewhere along the signal path, there has to be. Using digital interconnects it will be the amp doing the conversion, using analogue interconnects it will be the CD player.

So what you're suggesting isn't adding a DAC, rather adding a better DAC than the one already present.

My gut feeling is that if you have an analogue-only amp then adding a dedicated DAC between the digital output of the player and the analogue input of the amp does have potential to be a decent upgrade over the cheapo DAC in the player as you suggest. However, if the amp can accept digital inputs then any gains to be had from an external DAC are likely to be insignificant compared to preserving the digital signal path as long as possible.

Can you just use the optical drive on your pc or fit a cd/dvd drive to your PC and use that/ plug the audio out in to the amp.

https://www.cclonline.com/ccl-dvdrw-blk-525-ccl-choice-dvd-writer-optical-drive-92980/

Yes, I would, given that “a (possibly cheap) DAC” is already exactly what’s inside any amp which accepts digital input.

How many amplifiers have onboard DACs? Maybe some newer ones, but most are analogue only. Particularly many of the better ones. I'm going on the assumption the OP's amp is the analogue type. I'm talking about adding a new DAC between the CD player and an analogue amplifier, to bypass (and improve upon) the CD player's onboard DAC circuit. Which in the case of older CD players, generally isn't up to the standards of modern DACs.

So what you’re suggesting isn’t adding a DAC, rather adding a better DAC than the one already present.

Yes. This is quite a common 'upgrade' from older CD players to produce better quality sound. Something like the Bluesound Node, as I've already mentioned, will offer better sound than many older CD player's onboard DACS. But you don't have to spend a fortune; the Schitt (yes...) Modi is a very highly rated small DAC that you can probably pick up somewhere for £100 or less. Cambridge Audio (Richer Sounds) do the also very highly rated DAC Magic for £150. These are just DACs; they don't stream music, so you'll need something like the Node or similar, if you want that added capability.

Add in the fact that solid state solutions generally sound so much better, I just think the traditional CD player is not worth it nowadays.

Hmm. You might have added features like surround sound processing, or fancy audio effects, but I'm not sure you can get audibly 'much better' sound from a 'solid state solution' (sounds like something people will argue about for ages...). New technology may be theoretically 'better', but whether or not human ears can tell the difference or not, is another matter.

I bought a Topping D30 DAC for about £100 a few years ago.

It was excellent. Better than an original CA DAC Magic I had.

They don't do that model anymore but they have some well reviewed stuff on Ebay and Aliexpress.

I'm 95% sure the amp is analogue only. I'm going to check when the monsters are in bed later. Based in reading the above I'm leaning towards getting one of the suggested marantz players then adding a DAC in the near future.

I do have a CD drive in the work PC though again think it's analogue output only (crappy dell box).

How many amplifiers have onboard DACs?

Every single one of them that has digital inputs.

I’m talking about adding a new DAC between the CD player and an analogue amplifier, to bypass (and improve upon) the CD player’s onboard DAC circuit.

Sure, and I tentatively agree. There's a logic to it for sure. I'd love to hear it.

Every single one of them that has digital inputs.

But a lot don't. Mine don't. I've never owned an audio amplifier with any digital inputs. The OP has already stated their amplifier doesn't either. A lot of higher end amplifiers don't have any digital inputs. A lot of what Richer sounds sell don't.

There’s a logic to it for sure. I’d love to hear it.

I have. That's why I'm offering the advice I am.

I've also been through all the above and despite still having a fully working Arcam CD 73 that cost a fair bit when new, it just doesn't sound any better than the CDs that are now all ripped to Apple Lossless (for ease of use in the car) and now play through an Ipad with camera kit into the amp digitally, where it is dealt with by the amps internal DAC.

Or rather, the CDP going into the amp via analogue RCAs sounds no different to the digital rips also going into the amp.

Higher quality digital audio also going into the amp does sound marginally better than the CDP but, not massively.

So. as above I'd get a cheapy CDP with digital out and go into an external DAC before analogue into the amp.
Just how good a DAC you get depends on what you are chasing sound quality wise but, for £200 all in you could have yourself a very nice sounding bit of kit - with the bonus of being able to link other digital sources into the DAC seamlessly.

This blew me away with the sound it produced a while ago.
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/550.html

Every single one of them that has digital inputs

Edit - I misread your post and thought you said every amp has digital inputs 🙂

Mine is analogue and has some lovely copper on it 🙂

But a lot don’t. Mine don’t. I’ve never owned an audio amplifier with any digital inputs.

I've never owned one that hasn't. But sure, absolutely correct. There's a lot of "if" in this discussion.

The OP has already stated their amplifier doesn’t either.

They said "IIRC," nothing was stated.

Have checked now and it does not.

They said “IIRC,” nothing was stated.

Famous last words, eh? 🤣

🤷‍♂️ The OP wasn't sure, now they are.

The OP wasn’t sure, now they are

Exactly this. I was sure it didn't have optical digital in as had to buy a convertor when I connected the TV up. It may have had a cabled digital in but doesn't.

So, you bought a DAC then? This is confusing...

Anyway; after all that, if you buy something like a Marantz CD63/SE, you should be pretty pleased with the sound, as it's a decent player. You mention having Monitor Audio speakers; they're supposedly very good. Perhaps you'd benefit from a better external DAC at some stage. Perhaps not. But if you have a computer with a disc burner, then at least do consider ripping your CD collection, and using a streamer. Many are now using 'high resolution' audio whatnot; music played at a higher bitrate than CD even, which should in theory offer 'better' sound, although I'm a bit sceptical, as there are limits to human hearing. I look forward to giving it all a listen though.

Of course, the big limiting factor in all of it, is the original mastering; plenty of CDs with poor mastering, especially in the early days. Hence why a lot of classic albums have undergone remastering at some point, to improve the audio quality. Listen to some modern pop music, and the actual sound quality can be amazing, even if the actual 'music' is shite. I find it a little sad that we won't ever get to hear some of the greatest music artists in the way their music deserves, as the technology at the time of recording was nowhere near what is now. 🙁

Guess I did yes 😀 a 'FiiO Taishan D03K' according to my amazon history. It was a quick buy as I changed the TV and failed to notice the new one only had optical out. It suffers from noise though when powered by an external usb charger, seems ok on the TV's usb socket. Myabe I'll wire that up with and old bluray player until I sort something better.

Yes speakers are Monitor Audio Bronze B2. The amp is a PM4400.

The CD collection is already ripped (I think I've done it all 3 times at different qualities) as I do use it on my phone. None of it is ripped in a loss less format, maybe something to revisit. Most of it is 90s/early 2000s music, a few earlier bits but not a lot. I want to get away from the almost inevitable track skipping and shuffle that results. Maybe it would technically produce a better sound but would miss the hunting though the collection aspect I also miss.

You're not going to get a better sound from ripping your extant CDs any more than you'll get 4k UHD by transferring your VHS tapes to blu-ray. What you will get is convenience.

I replaced my CD collection dating back to the mid-80s with a Spotify subscription. I have a playlist with all my CDs, and another with all of my Everything Else, mostly cassettes. And of course, the entirety of Spotify's back catalogue. "Alexa, play [specific song] / [album] / [my CDs on shuffle]" has meant I've listened to more of music in the last year than the previous decade.

stevenmenmuir
Free Member
I have an old Technics SL PG490 that must be about 25 years old. Had to open it up and dust it once.

These are amazing CD players for the price.

I've still got the 520A I bought new in the early 90's. Use it pretty much every day.
You can pick them up for peanuts and they still stand up against modern stuff.

Warmer than the Marantz alternatives back then and I still prefer it, but the new Marantz players are really spot on.

I play mine through a tank of a DVD player. Sony DVP7700. Has a separate CD laser system. then into a DacMagic 100 and into an amp.

https://www.whathifi.com/features/was-then-sony-dvp-s7700

Got it moved and working now with the old sony bluray player (BDP-S380), currently playing Florence and the Machine. Even badly positioned and behind me (need longer speaker cables) it sounds good, had forgotten just how crap nest speakers or the UE boom really were. Bluray player not outputting digital, I assume that will be a setting I need to find. Seems to be coax only, the product page says optical I cannot find that on the actual device.

I have the model down, the S370. It has coaxial and optical digital outputs labelled, somewhat counterintuitively, "coaxial" and "optical."

It's forever since I plugged it in so memory is hazy, but you might need to set the digital output to PCM rather than something clevererer.

You'll not beat that BD player with a dedicated CD unit IMHO.

I replaced my CD collection dating back to the mid-80s with a Spotify subscription.

Now that's what I call an early adopter!

Don't make me hurt you.

It’s forever since I plugged it in so memory is hazy, but you might need to set the digital output to PCM rather than something clevererer.

Yeah think that's it. Just need to take it down to the TV, change the setting then bring it back up and test :D.